Cathy and Todd discuss an article from The New York Times titled, ‘Parents Are Highly Involved in Their Adult Children’s Lives, and Fine With It,‘ explaining that staying intimately connected to our older children has benefits, not just risks, and most young adults agree. They discuss the perspectives of previous generations and why things have changed, as well as why it’s easy to stay connected due to devices and the research around effective parenting. They also discuss the fascination with OOTD (outfit of the day) and GRWM (get ready with me) on social media and how we can talk to our kids about comparison culture and self-worth.

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Parents Are Highly Involved in Their Adult Children’s Lives, and Fine With It

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(00:01:52) Zen Parenting Moment brought to you by Financial Advisor David Serrano

(00:03:11) Secret love commercial

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Blog Post

Decoding the Metamorphosis in Parent-Adult Child Relationships: Is Over-Involvement Harmful?

The relationship between parents and adult children has always been subject to discussion and speculation. The dynamics have transformed over generations, with the current wave demonstrating a heightened level of involvement by parents in their adult children’s lives. The question that arises: Is this level of involvement beneficial or detrimental?

Understanding Contemporary Parenting

Prominently, the present generation, commonly known as ‘Millennials,’ showcases a unique trend. A sizable number of them maintain a daily or regular contact with their parents. But contrary to common belief, this does not necessarily indicate dependency.

Admittedly, our previous generations had different standards, and perhaps, their concept of ‘independence’ didn’t necessarily align with this ongoing trend of constant contact. But with the world rapidly morphing around us and factors such as technology and evolving norms moulding our society, can we really expect the parent-child dynamic to be immune to this change?

Parenting Communications in the Modern Era

Technology has undeniably played an instrumental role in shaping our communication patterns. Years ago, the only feasible mode for kids studying in college to touch base with their parents was a phone call. The frequency of these calls was low, thanks to the practicalities like time and cost. Conversations were limited to once a week or less, but that was then, and this is now.

Fast forward to the present, where our smartphones facilitate instant communication, the once-a-week phone calls have morphed into everyday text exchanges. The frequency of these exchanges doesn’t essentially denote dependency but is a testament to the dramatic shift in our communication environment.

Independence: What Does it Signify?

When we talk about a child’s independence, the measurement yardsticks are often defined by previous generations. However, it’s essential to acknowledge that the challenges faced by Gen Z and Millennials vary significantly from their predecessors.

For instance, when we consider the escalating costs of education, skyrocketing property prices, or lifestyle dynamics, the challenges spiking their path to ‘traditional’ independence mount considerably. Perhaps, it comes down to understanding that today’s independence encapsulates more than just financial autonomy- it signifies resilience, emotional stability, and the ability to navigate one’s life.

Adopting an Open-Minded Perspective

When it comes to the age-old debate of whether parents should be ‘friends’ with their children, there is often an array of opinions. While the idea of being ‘friends’ with one’s parents may not appeal to everyone and might even be viewed as a potential impediment to the child’s progress, it is crucial to understand that this concept is not about bypassing the ‘parent’ role entirely.

As parents, our responsibility isn’t just to provide financially but also to enable a support system, fostering a nurturing environment, clarity, and guidance without imposing our personal beliefs and expectations.


Changing times call for a changed approach to parenting. The fact that young adults and parents perceive their relationships as ‘good’ or ‘excellent’ speaks volumes about the evolving dynamic. As parents, our objective should not be to recreate our own childhood for our children but to provide a supportive environment that empowers them, helps them face their unique challenges, and above all, preps them for success using their own set of parameters. As the cliche goes, change is the only constant. It is high time our parenting ideals align with this principle.

Keep Truck’n!




[00:00:05] Cathy: Okay. Todd, when you think of February, what do you think you like? Leave

[00:00:11] Todd: here? Oh, Valentine’s Day. Yeah. Yeah. Groundhog. February. I think it’s weird that we have an R in there. Those are the three things. I think of two

[00:00:20] Cathy: problems with our language. February and Wednesday.

[00:00:25] Todd: Wednesday Wednesday. So the only two problems with the English days, that’s it.

[00:00:28] Todd: Everything else is easy. And I also have the judgment that anybody who lives in the upper Midwest, February is the worst month. ’cause we’re still, you know, the Christmas thing is well over, right? March is still not here. I don’t, January seems more tolerable. ’cause you’re supposed, it’s supposed to be cold.

[00:00:43] Todd: Whereas February, I feel like, you

[00:00:46] Cathy: know, you always tell me that February is tough for sports.

[00:00:49] Todd: Well, yeah, I mean, we got March Madness, but March Madness didn’t even start until. That’s my point until it went sweetie. March. March, right. Super Bowl’s over. Right? Baseball hasn’t begun yet, so we got basketball, hockey, and Hockey hockey.

[00:01:03] Todd: So anyways, you ready to start this show? I’m ready. Let’s go.

[00:01:11] Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Kathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number, I’m guessing seven fifty-two. Does that sound right? Uh, yeah, I think so. Let’s just go with that. Okay. Maybe it’s, maybe it’s wrong. Who knows? Does everything have to be right? Sweetie? If loving you is wrong, man, I don’t wanna be right.

[00:01:31] Todd: I don’t wanna be right. Seven fifty-two. I was right. Good. Um. I’m gonna tease and then we’re gonna talk about some other things. Okay. Uh, you sent me an article in the New York Times, uh, and it was all about, what’s the headline? You wanna read the

[00:01:43] Cathy: headline? Sure. Um, it was actually, it was sent to me by my friend Annie, and it’s called, it’s from the New York Times.

[00:01:49] Cathy: It’s called Parents are Highly Involved in their Adult Children’s Lives. Fine with it. All right. So that’s the tea. Yes. It’s, it’s such a good read, everybody. I’m excited to talk about it.

[00:01:59] Todd: But [00:02:00] first we’re gonna talk about your Zen parenting moment. Okay. I just decided in the last five minutes that our Zen parenting moments are gonna be brought to you by David Serrano.

[00:02:07] Todd: Nice. David Serrano is our personal financial advisor. He’s a wonderful guy. You can trust him, he can work with you, uh, if you’re, no matter where you are in the world. Um, he, we’ve had a relationship for a long time. Uh, he’s super smart and he helps you, uh, get better at where to put your money and how to make it grow and college tuitions and retirement plans.

[00:02:30] Todd: So, with that in mind, his phone number is eight one five. Three seven oh three seven eight zero. Give David a call and tell him send parenting sent you. So

[00:02:40] Cathy: you’re reminding me of like commercials from our childhood. Is anyone really writing down that number? But wait, there’s more. But wait, um, isn’t, shouldn’t there be a link or something?

[00:02:48] Cathy: It’s

[00:02:48] Todd: in the show notes, so just scroll. But some people write something down.

[00:02:52] Cathy: They do. Do you remember all the ads that I used to love for the albums that, you know, they would play all the clips from the albums and as a kid I would memorize those commercials. This may not be shocking to many. What, what would, if

[00:03:04] Todd: I wanted to look it up on YouTube.

[00:03:06] Todd: Look up secret love. I know, but what was like the brand? Like how would I look it up? Uh,

[00:03:12] Cathy: God, they were all different.

[00:03:13] Todd: Um, would I call it a record commercial?

[00:03:16] Cathy: Just put in secret love commercial. Songs or something like, I am sure it’ll pop up somehow. ’cause that was one of my favorite. And then Freedom Rock.

[00:03:24] Cathy: I loved Freedom Rock. Do you remember Freedom

[00:03:27] Todd: Rock? This is secret love commercial. 1987. That seems too late it seems

[00:03:31] Cathy: too. No, that’s it. All right, let’s, that’s it. Let’s, because that was my junior and high school. That’s it. Loved this album.

[00:03:45] Cathy: I if you like soft rock music like we do, you’ll love Session’s. New album called Secret Love. It has has 48 soft

[00:03:52] Todd: rock classics by the

[00:03:53] Cathy: original artists.[00:04:00]

[00:04:03] Todd: I. Want to test you? Um, baby, come to me. Well, I got you. No, no, you didn’t.

[00:04:09] Cathy: You didn’t. I got, um, it’s people,

[00:04:11] Todd: Bryson. Patty Austin and James Ingram. Let’s see how you do with the next one. That’s Pee-Boo. Oh, I think you’re right. It was Pee-Boo Bryce. Thank you. I was looking at the other one. Let’s see what the next one is.

[00:04:26] Todd: Hello,

[00:04:27] Cathy: this is Jennifer Warrens and

[00:04:28] Todd: Joe Cocker. Very good.

[00:04:35] Todd: Is that James Ingram? That was Sergio Mendez. Oh. But as I’m looking at this YouTube clip, the guy just went in for a kiss and she pushed him away. I remember

[00:04:45] Cathy: that. Oh my. Okay, so these commercials, this is one of many. Yeah. Um, I, I had them memorized in my head, so like in school, if I heard like, you know, never gonna let you go.

[00:04:57] Cathy: I knew exactly what it went into

[00:04:59] Todd: next. Yes. Alright, let’s try a few more. Okay.

[00:05:01] Cathy: These songs really bring out the animal and some people. You also get great hits by Billy Ocean, James Taylor, the Commodores and the Moody

[00:05:09] Todd: Blues.

[00:05:14] Cathy: You know what this is?

[00:05:16] Todd: This is Foreigner. Very good.

[00:05:20] Cathy: Pulling the game. Precious and Few Secret Love.

[00:05:25] Cathy: I don’t know. Precious and Few. Climax. Climax.

[00:05:27] Todd: Very good. Got it. That’s Sweetie’s secret Superpower.

[00:05:31] Cathy: Yeah. If I had to do a talent show, that’s probably all I could bring that in my like mediocre drums. Um.

[00:05:37] Todd: Okay, so the Zen parenting moment. Okay. Yes. Um, I’m actually going to play a clip from your Zen parenting moment.

[00:05:44] Todd: Nice. And then we’re going to, uh, talk about it.

[00:05:48] Cathy: When I was younger, I’d say.[00:06:00]

[00:06:12] Cathy: Was

[00:06:16] Todd: all right, so I did not know that this was assault. Oh, really? So I saw your moment. I’m like, oh, it’s a really good moment. I think a lot of people will, um, be interested in it, and then I’m like, this looks like it might be a song. And you, you hyperlinked it. Yeah. So I pulled it up so I. What, what did you write?

[00:06:34] Todd: Why did

[00:06:35] Cathy: you write it? So Jax the first of all though, I’m gonna talk about that song real quick and then I’ll go into what I wrote. Um, she wrote that, uh, several years ago. Um, and she, she used to be a nanny and the girl that she was nannying, um, and I don’t know if Jack’s, I think she’s a tick tocker. I don’t think she’s a YouTuber, but she’s in that world, like she’s an influencer.

[00:06:55] Cathy: And the girl that she was Nannying for was starting to get this. Like discomfort with her body. And Jax is obviously a singer songwriter, you know, entertainer. And so, but she wasn’t famous and she wrote this song for that girl and she sang it kind of, you know, without all the musical background. And everybody loved it.

[00:07:15] Cathy: So she made it into a song and it was on the radio for a long time. I don’t know how high it climbed, but anyway. I chose that. ’cause it, you know, like I said, sometimes when I write things, certain things run through my head and that’s what ran through my head. Because there’s these two things that are big in, um, social media.

[00:07:30] Cathy: They have been for a while. I would say that my girls would probably read this and think I’m very outdated already. This could be a

[00:07:35] Todd: test, O-O-T-D-O-O-T-D. Don’t say what it’s stands it’s for, and the other is GRWM. So the test for the listener is, do you know what OOTD means? And do you know what GRWM means?

[00:07:46] Todd: Pause. Can we give them a second? One second. Now. Say what? It’s, what’s OOTD

[00:07:51] Cathy: Outfit of the day? What the heck is that? Ootd is, um, I don’t know where things start, but it’s very popularized [00:08:00] by girls in college, um, girls with money, um, girls who can show you what they’re wearing and go through each item. So basically it’ll, they’ll start by saying, OOTD.

[00:08:12] Cathy: They’ll say, you know, shirt by DKNY, pants by Lululemon shoes, by golden Goose, bracelets by, um, whoever. I, I don’t know, all these things, you know, and then they’ll, they just go through everything They’re wearing earrings. Sometimes they’ll throw in like things like thrifted, these. And so then they just show you what they’re wearing and then they go about their day.

[00:08:37] Cathy: And

[00:08:37] Todd: then, then Can I do my ootd with you right now? Let’s do it. OOTD, uh, Iowa. Hawkeyes hat. ’cause my wife gave it to me. Yes. A rainbow hoodie because Sister gave, my sister gave that to me, and then I think my dad gave it to her and it’s one of my favorite sweatshirts.

[00:08:51] Cathy: Time. That doesn’t make sense. Your sister gave it to you, but your dad gave Oh, your dad, ed.

[00:08:54] Todd: She regifted. And I love the sweatshirt, but it actually, I’ve been wearing my purple hoodie a lot because it’s thicker. Plus it’s just purple. True. And then I have, uh, my running pants on and awesome orange shoes.

[00:09:06] Cathy: I don’t think you get

[00:09:07] Todd: a lot of followers. I don’t think I would either. I know it’s grwm.

[00:09:11] Cathy: GRWM is Get Ready with me.

[00:09:13] Cathy: And that is where somebody gets really close to their camera and I’ll say, GRWM. They don’t even say it, they’re just like, they say, get ready with me. It’s just the hashtag is GRWM. And then they start to do their skincare routine. And as they’re doing it, they tell a story. So it’ll be like, okay, today you guys, you know, and they’ll be putting their serum on their hands and wiping it on their face.

[00:09:34] Cathy: And they’ll be like, and then, you know, he said to me, and then what I decided to do was. While they’re doing it, there’s, they’re just going through this whole routine and influencers will stop and say, oh, I got this at blah, blah, blah. You know, because as I write about in this, you know, Zen parenting moment, a lot of them are getting sent these things and then they’re using them and then they get paid.

[00:09:58] Cathy: Mm-Hmm. So it’s not because [00:10:00] it’s the greatest product in the world, it’s because someone’s willing to pay this influencer to use it. Um. We know that especially with Get Ready With Me ’cause it’s, it’s skincare and makeup basically, um, that this is being so pushed. On our girls, um, that there needs to be some extensive, um, skincare routine.

[00:10:20] Cathy: And this is starting at a very early age, nine or 10. Um, and then there is this like extensive makeup routine and that you don’t just have makeup, you don’t like go to Walgreens or CBS. You have makeup it from a line that was created by someone who’s famous, maybe someone you follow, and then you have all sorts of different products.

[00:10:40] Cathy: Okay. So

[00:10:40] Todd: can I pause real quick? Sure. So would this be designed for adolescent? Mostly girls. Right.

[00:10:48] Cathy: Get ready with me. Yeah. Oh gosh, no. There are women my age who do it. Oh, they do. Uh-huh?

[00:10:52] Todd: Well, I just wanna go back into whatever, 1985 or 1988, whenever you, did your process look different than what these girls process did?

[00:11:03] Todd: And if so, how? Of course.

[00:11:04] Cathy: I mean, there’s a few things. Number one, makeup. You could go, like my mom went to the Clinique counter or the Lancome counter, but I didn’t have that money. So I would get all my makeup at a drugstore. Right. And I would follow what 17 Magazine told me to do. Got it. You know,

[00:11:22] Todd: and nowadays they go to

[00:11:23] Cathy: Sephora.

[00:11:24] Cathy: Nowadays they go to Sephora. Okay. And that’s a whole other thing that’s like a thousands, and I mean, makeup is so expensive. If it’s a, if it’s a brand name. Yeah. Right. Um. It’s less about going to like when, when I remember when, uh, something that I did for each of my girls is I said, when you’re in eighth grade, I will take you to, um, I chose Bobby Brown because it has a natural look to it.

[00:11:49] Cathy: Not

[00:11:49] Todd: merely Bobby Brown, not

[00:11:50] Cathy: merely Bobby Brown, but Bobby Brown is a, a type of makeup that I felt. Was had a natural look to it. It wasn’t like really, [00:12:00] it was like, here’s how you put on makeup, where you feel good about what you look like. So before they started wearing makeup in eighth grade, I took them there and I said, I’ll buy you one of these products.

[00:12:08] Cathy: You know, one, one product that Bobby Brown puts out. They actually, I. Two of ’em chose mascara from her, but then the rest of the, they’re showing you how to do it, but now you have to go get cheaper stuff and do it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Got it. But at least someone was showing them how Mm-Hmm. You know?

[00:12:25] Todd: And what’s underneath it all? Like why did you think it was important to write this moment? What is it about?

[00:12:30] Cathy: Oh, so the moment it’s OOTD and, um, get ready with me, GRWM, I just wanted. It’s funny ’cause I kind of wrote it for teens, but I was directing it at parents. Um, I, I wanted to make the point that I understand, ’cause in the first paragraph I talk about how my TikTok feed started to pick up the algorithm of OOTD.

[00:12:50] Cathy: Especially when my daughter first went to college. ’cause I was getting a lot of college girls on my feed and I was getting kind of obsessed too. Like, oh, that’s cool. Look at those bracelets. Oh, that’s neat. You know, and I was like, okay, this is powerful. Right. And I’m 50. Two, how old am I? Fifty-two fifty-two.

[00:13:07] Cathy: So I know that these girls are not, they’re not being vapid. They’re not being vain, they’re being targeted.

[00:13:15] Todd: So I just feel the need. We talked to Nate last week. Yeah. And he talked about that David versus Goliath thing. Right? Exactly. We, it’s so easy for. Mm. Us old people, fifty-one year old man to say, oh, just ignore all that stuff, right?

[00:13:29] Todd: It’s literally David versus Goliath. And I think what he meant by that is there’s the smartest people in the world using artificial intelligence, using algorithm, leveraging devices to target our kids with messages. And it’s not an impossibility, but it’s extremely hard for them to see things with any clarity because these things are designed.

[00:13:53] Todd: So precisely to help to, to persuade us to do something

[00:13:57] Cathy: Well, and it’s not just the algorithm or what they [00:14:00] see. It’s their culture. It’s their generation, like their culture. Their generation likes makeup and skin care, so you can’t be like, I’m not gonna, I mean there are plenty of girls and guys who are like, I’m not gonna do that, but that then they don’t know what people are talking about.

[00:14:17] Cathy: Yeah, right. Then it’s, it’s kind of like saying to us, you know, what was one of our favorite shows? You know, family ties. Yeah. Well I did that. You and I loved family type thing. Brady Bunch. Maybe, but that’s all that was like Causeby show. No, let’s think about something that everybody was into like maybe star Wars, I don’t know.

[00:14:35] Cathy: But there’s like this thing where it’s like, no, just don’t watch that. Just don’t like that. And it’s like, yeah, but everybody talks about it. Got it. So like I need to know if I’m going to be in my culture and be with people. This is something that we do. Now, I may be someone who, like my oldest daughter doesn’t really wear makeup.

[00:14:52] Cathy: Occasionally she does, but she’s not into it. But she likes other things. She likes thrifting and she likes jewelry and she, you know what I mean? Like, so it’s like you can kind of have your own lane, but there’s gotta be something, yeah. That you’re somewhat interested in. So. I think I was writing it at teens just to validate that it’s, it’s understandably, um, alluring.

[00:15:13] Cathy: But I was also saying to parents, you have to start having conversations about it. Not because you’re gonna convince your kids to not live in a comparison culture, ’cause they do, but you have to start talking about, you know, these influencers get paid and, you know, it’s kind of like the cooking culture where like.

[00:15:31] Cathy: You, you’re shown a tick-tock of someone cooking something. Yep. And it turns out perfect and you have to tell your kids they did that 50 times to make the tick-tock look perfect. Right? They’re not getting it perfect every time. And I can say that ’cause I made macaroni and cheese for the Super Bowl and it was not that good.

[00:15:47] Todd: Little more cheese. Uh, what a hell. And it

[00:15:49] Cathy: was the wrong cheese. I wanted to do smoked.

[00:15:54] Todd: Why don’t you do something crazy like jalapeno cheddar cheese? Well,

[00:15:57] Cathy: your sister had a good point. She said white cheddar [00:16:00] is really strong, but I followed the recipe to perfection. You didn’t trust your gut. No, I did. I, I, but I followed the recipe.

[00:16:08] Cathy: Well. You follow the recipe? I don’t follow. Touch your gut. I don’t

[00:16:12] Todd: have a gut with cooking. Sweet, sweetie. It’s time for you to find your guts.

[00:16:16] Cathy: I’m just not, I, that’s just not something I have, um, with cooking. Um, but I followed the recipe. I’m like, okay, this can be great. It looked great. It heated up great.

[00:16:25] Cathy: And I was like, I. Everyone was nice to me, but I’m like, I don’t like it. It was a

[00:16:28] Todd: little, uh, it was, it was fine. It wasn’t, it wasn’t great. Yeah. Right. And what is it about, um, California Pizza, kitchen macaroni cheese, or, I dunno, they have to give us the rest. Actually. Uh, it was hot bellies. Had really good macaroni and cheese, the conference.

[00:16:43] Todd: So yeah. What is it about those cheeses, about that mac and cheese that makes it good? I don’t know.

[00:16:49] Cathy: So it’s funny because we, at the conference, we needed to like eat kind of on the fly and my friend Jess who helps us with the conference, she’s like. Ordered all this food and she got this big tub of macaroni and cheese and I made fun of her like, nobody’s going to eat this.

[00:17:01] Cathy: And other I don’t. I feel like there’s someone else making fun of her. I’m like, no one’s gonna this. Oh, I think I did. Yeah. And then all of a sudden everyone’s like, this is the

[00:17:07] Todd: best. It came. Super hot. Super hot. So there’s something about that container. Kept it hot. And it was really good. And it was plain, like, it’s not like they had like spicy chicken in it.

[00:17:17] Todd: It was macaroni and cheese

[00:17:18] Cathy: period. It was really good. Um, so anyway, I, I liked the, I liked zen parenting moment. I write them, so of course I like them. But this one I felt very connected to because I’m just trying to say to parents, do your best to talk about it and know that your kids will understand this later, but they need your voice in their head.

[00:17:36] Cathy: So they can go back to it because to say to a seventeen-year-old fifteen-year-old thirteen-year-old, don’t compare. Duh. Are you kidding me? Well, of course they’re going

[00:17:44] Todd: to, and it’s an invitation. How do we compare as adults? We compare all the time,

[00:17:48] Cathy: and that’s the conversation is I kind of put in there, you know, like, why are you comparing what?

[00:17:53] Cathy: Because the whole idea that these people who have these fancy things and all the bracelets and the good shoes are happier. [00:18:00] That’s a misperception truth. Um, so anyway, I’ll just let people read it. Link to it. Yeah.

[00:18:05] Todd: It’s in the show notes. Yeah. Um, so the main part of our podcast is being brought to you by Team Zen, sweetie?

[00:18:11] Todd: Yes. And we have a new team, Zen member. Nice Kim from Virginia. Welcome Kim. Uh, she’s not new. It’s Kimmy. I. Remember she dropped off and again, Kimmy’s back. Yeah, she’s back, back again.

[00:18:23] Cathy: You were like, so she, so Hi Kim, we’re going to talk about you. Um, she was at the conference and we haven’t seen her in a while ’cause we haven’t had a conference.

[00:18:31] Cathy: And we were like, it’s so great that she team Zen. She’s like, you guys, I haven’t been on Team Zen for a while. Todd’s like, you gotta come back. Yes. And then I felt bad, like we’re twisting her arm, but

[00:18:41] Todd: she’s back. Um, I feel like I should play this song.

[00:18:44] Cathy: Yes.

[00:18:54] Cathy: Yes. Yes. I hope she’s laughing while listening

[00:18:57] Todd: to this. I’m sure she is. She’s a sweetheart. And so is her husband Derek. Yes.

[00:19:01] Cathy: So much fun with both of them. I, I’m still thinking about the conference. I just love those live

[00:19:07] Todd: things. Um, so for those of you who may not know what Team Zen is, uh, we have this app.

[00:19:11] Todd: It’s called the Circle App. It’s a Team Zen membership platform. It’s an app with Zen Parenting Radius complete. Parenting collection plus live talks all in one place. We have all these micro communities. Then finance raising healthy sons differently wired. I have a women’s group. So what we have coming up is we have, uh, a micro community, loved ones dealing with addiction, and then we also have, uh, raising healthy Sons coming up.

[00:19:35] Todd: We have Zen talk number 182, and then you have a women’s group coming up. So, yeah, and I

[00:19:39] Cathy: kind of feel like the, the key to this is if you’re unsure, join and then you have like so many podcasts you can listen to. ’cause I think we’ve done really how many teams on 182. 182. So they’re all in podcast form and they’ll go to your podcast app.

[00:19:52] Cathy: And you

[00:19:53] Todd: can search by topic and it will take you, not just take you to the podcast, but it’ll take you to the point of the podcast where we talk about that thing. [00:20:00] So if it’s about porn or weed or whatever it is, you can go right to it. And I just decided just in this moment, oh no, if you join in the next say month, we will give you, I’ll send you a Shefali book.

[00:20:12] Todd: Parent, what’s the, what’s

[00:20:13] Cathy: the number Book? Yeah, we have some extras. Um,

[00:20:15] Todd: the Parent Map. The Parent Map. A really good book. We actually interviewed her. So anyways, that’s the promo. If you want a free book, I’ll send it to you. It’s on us. You just pay the twenty-five bucks for one month. Check it out, and if you don’t like it, you just cancel whatever you want.

[00:20:26] Cathy: All right. You ready to talk about our. Our

[00:20:29] Todd: content. Yeah, let’s go ahead and you start because you sent

[00:20:31] Cathy: this to me. Okay. So like I said, my friend Annie sent this to me. She knew I would like this ’cause we have these conversations all the time. Um, it’s again, parents are highly involved in their adult children’s lives and fine with it.

[00:20:43] Cathy: And the subtitle is, new surveys show that today’s intensive parenting has benefits, not just risks. And most young adults seem pretty happy with it. Yep. So I think the, this is kind of a. Um, something you and I discuss a lot because I, I was just telling Skylar upstairs before I came down, ’cause I asked her how she felt about this article and we kind of had a conversation about it and I was telling her how.

[00:21:08] Cathy: As a parent, I know how I feel about all these things, but as somebody who works with parents and someone who does a podcast, I have to be a little more thoughtful about the language I use because there’s still this belief even from Gen, X, and maybe millennials too, I don’t know. ’cause they’re having children as well, that there is.

[00:21:29] Cathy: This, don’t be friends with your kid mentality. That I think is left over from the boomer era era where it’s like if you become close to your kid, they are going to fail. Mm-Hmm. If your kids depend on you, then you are Harming them. Yeah. If your kids as adults, um, ask, you know, for help or text you, you haven’t set them up for adulthood.

[00:21:52] Cathy: And I, and I’ve always felt I knew. I never agreed with that. Um, obviously there’s a, there’s, there’s a binary [00:22:00] here that we’re, you know, trying to work within. Like it’s not, you’re either friends with your kid and you mess them up or you’re not friends at all and they’re fine. There’s all this space in between.

[00:22:10] Cathy: Yeah. Um, so I’ll stop for a second comment. So

[00:22:13] Todd: I feel like the, um, the nature of this conversation, and I have a few specific topics or, or things I thought of as I read the article, but I. I think that us parents think we know what it’s like to be a kid. Right. And we don’t. And the two examples I’m gonna give is as far as independence or dependence in college and all that.

[00:22:34] Todd: ’cause we’re talking about young adults, right? Mm-Hmm. Most colleges are insanely expensive as compared to 30 years ago whenever we went to school. Correct. So it’s not a fair comparison. No. So I just wanna say that. And the phone changed everything Totally. Like our, our kids. I judge have a much more challenging childhood because of that phone.

[00:22:56] Todd: They also get to do a lot of cool things on their phone, like watch YouTube and play games and all that. But the, the idea that we think we know what it’s like to grow up is

[00:23:05] Cathy: ridiculous. Well, and the idea that we are going to put. Our, our values, our history on them and say, here’s what I did, so you should do that.

[00:23:13] Cathy: It’s, it’s not, it, it doesn’t line up. It’s just not the same. And, you know, Todd, you just said, um, you know, college is so much more expensive, which you’re absolutely right. I. Houses are so much more expensive. Houses, forget it. Can you apartments? You know, jobs are changing. Everything’s different. It doesn’t mean our kids are screwed.

[00:23:33] Cathy: It’s not, there is lots of, again, there’s a nuance in here. There’s a lot of things that they have access to that we didn’t like. I’m gonna go way back. I remember when I was in my twenties and my friends were starting to get, um, jobs where they were managing. Mm-Hmm, okay. I was in a total, all of my best friends were more in a business world.

[00:23:53] Cathy: I was in like a education and social, you know, work kind of world. We’re all the

[00:23:57] Todd: big bucks stuff from sweetie.

[00:23:58] Cathy: So broke. Oh, [00:24:00] my friends in money and I did not, um, or they had more, I, they’d probably fight me on that. They had money, but I just felt I was totally Sorry, sidetrack. Um, I was totally. That, you know that friends episode?

[00:24:11] Cathy: Yeah. Where they’ve uh, yeah, the steaks and the eggplant. The one where Joey and Rachel and Phoebe don’t have money and Ross and Monica and Chandler do, and they go out to eat and they like split the bill and everyone’s like, oh my God, this, I was that person. And I don’t know if they remember me that way.

[00:24:32] Cathy: ’cause I, I don’t know how much I said about it, but I just did not like, I remember we moved from. We had an apartment on Belmont and Broadway, and I was like barely making rent. And then my three roommates, they were like, we wanna move to a nicer place. And I totally get it. I just didn’t have the money. I did it and I kind of upped my game, you know, financially.

[00:24:51] Cathy: But Can I play

[00:24:52] Todd: a clip from that? Friends? You sure? Can you tell me when to stop? Okay. Whoa. Does anybody else feel like they just gave birth to an alien?

[00:24:59] Cathy: Yes. No.

[00:25:02] Todd: Okay. Plus tip divided by six. And everyone owes twenty-eight bucks. What? Um, everyone. Oh, you’re right. I’m sorry. Monica’s birthday. Thank you. It’s Monica’s.

[00:25:16] Todd: Big night. She shouldn’t pay. Aw, thank you. So five of us is. 33 50 a piece. No,

[00:25:25] Cathy: no way. Sorry. Not gonna

[00:25:26] Todd: happen. Whoa, whoa. Prom night flashback.

[00:25:29] Cathy: You can stop it. Yeah, that’s good. Actually, it wasn’t Monica’s birthday. Monica got a promotion. Okay. Um, and, and they, it’s a real thing. It’s a real thing. And, and it’s, and no one’s hurting.

[00:25:38] Cathy: Like, it’s not like Ross and Monica and Chandler need to feel guilty about that. My friends were crushing it. Like I was so impressed with them. Yeah. And, and loved them. It’s just I sometimes couldn’t keep up. I got, I had some credit card debt. Let’s just say that. I had to work my way outta that. Lots of stories.

[00:25:54] Cathy: So where was I going? Why did I

[00:25:57] Todd: derail? Uh, I don’t know, sweetie, but we were talking about [00:26:00] money and independence in college and apartment. Yes.

[00:26:02] Cathy: So I guess my point is, is that I don’t think, even though I, I kind of think about, I left college. And I went directly to Chicago and lived in Chicago and figured it out and, you know, got into a little credit card debt, got my way out of that, you know, lived in in apartment, stuff like that.

[00:26:20] Cathy: It’s. It, it’s not as easy to do that today. No. I, I think it’s harder. It’s, I think it’s statist statistically, it’s harder. It is. And so we sometimes are like, I wish my kid would do exactly what I did, and they may be able to, depending on their major and what kind of internships and jobs they get. I, I have heard plenty of stories where kids have been crushing it.

[00:26:40] Cathy: Like one of my girlfriends. You know, her daughter moved to New York and has an amazing job and you know, this is possible.

[00:26:47] Todd: Amazing job. And can you imagine what her rent is in Manhattan? It’s a lot. Yeah. And can you imagine what cost of living is in Manhattan? It’s a lot. So you don’t, don’t get stuck on that salary thing.

[00:26:55] Todd: True. Good point. Because if you live in Arkansas, you can make a lot less money and be much wealthier. Based on cost of living. Yeah, it’s all relative. So my, my two stories, and then we’ll go in any direction. One is just the idea of being friends, being in contact with your children as they grow into young adulthood.

[00:27:14] Todd: I remember I would call my mom when I was in college. I. Once a week on Sunday night. Right. Our relationship with our children looks a lot different. Like, I don’t know, does a day go by typically where you don’t talk to at least one of our two college kids? Uh,

[00:27:29] Cathy: no. I talk to one of them at

[00:27:31] Todd: least. Right. And somebody might be like, oh, well you’re not letting them be independent.

[00:27:36] Todd: Right. And, and, and I think that’s the essence of what this article is. Correct. Are we doing our children? Aid to service by communicating with them a on a daily basis because I barely, I talked to my mom for my mom for 10 minutes when I was in Iowa living there, and it’s so much different than the way we approach our kids

[00:27:56] Cathy: now.

[00:27:56] Cathy: Okay, so first of all, there’s two big points I wanna make. [00:28:00] Make, number one is access. As you said, the phone has totally changed everything because when I was in college, there was a phone on the wall that my roommate Andrea and I shared, and if we were gonna have like a long conversation with somebody, we didn’t wanna annoy the other one.

[00:28:15] Cathy: Right? So we’d try and do it at a certain time, maybe it was at Sunday or whatever. And we also couldn’t go anywhere. We had to stand right there. mm-Hmm. And talk in that phone now. We have access to texting and calling FaceTiming whenever we want. So if we had that, you probably would’ve talked to your mom a lot more.

[00:28:33] Cathy: I bet you I would’ve. So it’s not, again, apples and oranges. I think my biggest point with this is I remember, you know, I used to do, I have the women’s group in Team Zen, but I used to do a live women’s circle, like here in my hometown and. Something that we always talked about early on is I would always talk about how the work that we’re doing, like where we’re trying to like shore up our insides and be really self-aware so we can connect with our girls.

[00:28:57] Cathy: I always thought about our generation as being a bridge from boomers to our kids, you know, generation, if they’d be millennials or, um, Gen, Zers, that we were trying to shift some of these paradigms and so. We were not only trying to heal our own childhood, but create a different childhood for our kids. I always saw us as a bridge.

[00:29:19] Cathy: It was just kind of the way I saw it. So if, if that’s the case, if everyone can go along with me, I. Then of course our relationship with our kids are gonna be, it’s gonna be different. Mm-Hmm. It’s not gonna be the way it was in our, you know, with our parents. Like, we are gonna have a different kind of trust, a different kind of communication, a different kind of acceptance of each other.

[00:29:41] Cathy: We are gonna be better communicators. We are gonna be maybe, hopefully more trusting of each other. So again, you, I don’t care what terms people use, I’m close to my kids. My kids are my friends. I feel like peers with my kids, I think. We get too worked up about being what

[00:29:58] Todd: it means, what it means, [00:30:00] trajectory into the future.

[00:30:01] Todd: This is what this kid’s gonna turn out to be if I talk to him every day

[00:30:04] Cathy: because of, because of things I’ve read. Yeah. Or books have told me. And there’s like this great tick tock that’s going around that Michelle Obama said, I’m not gonna be friends with my kids. And it’s a great, you know, Michelle Obama bow down.

[00:30:16] Cathy: I love her. So it’s, she’s not wrong. But her point was, I’m not gonna be friends with my kids because then I have to worry. About them liking me. And the reason why she’s kind of talking through a very specific thing that when her kids were teenagers, she had to still be that role of parent and she didn’t want to be friendly or best friends with her kids where she had to worry about that.

[00:30:40] Cathy: Sometimes they’d be annoyed with her or setting boundaries. And I think this is where things, we almost need new language because I have never struggled with that. Mm-Hmm. Like I know that I’m my kid’s parent and I know I’m the one who needs to set boundaries. I’m not worried about. My kid not liking me because I’ve set boundaries.

[00:30:57] Cathy: Yeah. I, I am concerned though, or thoughtful about when I’m having conversations with my kids, I wanna be curious, I wanna be conscientious. I want to honor their experience. That doesn’t mean I don’t have boundaries, and I’m not saying that’s what I, what I’m trying to say is there is something kind of viral right now that Michelle Obama said, and I think she’s right.

[00:31:21] Cathy: But I also think what we’re talking about here is

[00:31:23] Todd: different. Well, and it’s funny. I feel like you’re always one, being the qualifier, making sure that we’re saying the right thing. Yeah. Right. But my qualifier is. Every single situation is different. Correct? It’s possible that if you talk to your kids every day that you are spoiling ’em and they’re not going to be, uh, independent.

[00:31:37] Todd: It is, it’s possible, right? ’cause there’s all these different parents and kids and dynamic relationships, dynamics. Then there’s other times, you know, you could take the opposite approach where you’re so hands-off, you’re screwing your kid over ’cause kid needs a little support and a little bit of help.

[00:31:49] Todd: So my quick story, and this is back in the nineties, I guess. I lived with my mom until I was twenty-seven. Oh,

[00:31:57] Cathy: we know this ’cause you and I were dating. We know

[00:31:59] Todd: [00:32:00] this, we know this. And some people would be like, what? Uh, Todd’s never gonna get his crap together. Now what I did with that time, ’cause I saw all my friends moving to Lincoln Park, paying 800 bucks a month in rent, and I’m like, I’m so money scarce.

[00:32:16] Todd: Like, um, emotionally, like my psychology. Yeah. My psychology of money was like, I don’t wanna run out, so the best way to run out is not to pay rent. And my friends spent all this money and they were broke and I took my paycheck and I put it aside and I paid off my school loans and I saved enough money to buy an apartment building, which is set aside a trajectory.

[00:32:34] Todd: So I know it’s a one-person, sample size, but I, it did not make me. Uh, dependent upon my mom for the rest of my

[00:32:43] Cathy: life. So you and I literally had the opposite experience. Yeah. Right. So I left immediately Yep. From college, moved to Chicago and got a job and paid rent and never had any savings. More typical of our crew.

[00:32:57] Cathy: More typical. Exactly. And then you did the other thing. I think both of us had amazing experiences. Sure. I think that you obviously came out, um, with the money to buy the building, which was, that was before we were married. I mean, we lived there together and then you went in. It was awesome. You wanted Marty to move in with us.

[00:33:14] Cathy: Yeah. Um, and your dad, we had, we had many variations of that apartment building. We do a

[00:33:18] Todd: podcast on. Todd, you actually, you should listen to Ellie Solomon’s pod interview with us, God, because we go down the historical lane of Todd and Patsy’s courtship. Well, it’s just funny ‘

[00:33:28] Cathy: cause Marty was over the other day, so we were talking about how Marty was like a big fight for us because I was ready to get married or engage you or something,

[00:33:37] Todd: or move in direction.

[00:33:39] Todd: I’m like, no, I gotta have Marty.

[00:33:40] Cathy: You’re like, you know what? I might ask Marty to move in with me. So Marty thought that was funny. Anyway, I didn’t think it was funny at the time. But I love Marty, so it was hard to be mad. Right? How did you get mad at Bart? You can’t. Uh, so anyway, my point is, is that I think we both had really good experiences.

[00:33:55] Cathy: I learned a ton. Maybe it’s what we needed. Because I think me living [00:34:00] by myself in Chicago, ’cause I lived with my girlfriends in two different apartments. We had a ball, did the whole Wrigleyville thing. It was amazing. I loved it. Then I lived by myself for about three or four years. Mm-Hmm. And now in Chicago doing my own thing, taking care of my own car.

[00:34:12] Cathy: Taking out my own garbage, everything on my own, and I needed that. Yeah. I needed to grow up. Yep. And I am so glad, like if I would’ve stayed at home and saved money and I, I’m not quite sure I would’ve had the same experience you did. When you tell

[00:34:25] Todd: the John Cassan story when, uh. Something happened to your car and you called him, you’re in Chicago.

[00:34:31] Todd: He was in DeKalb. Illinois, actually that was college. Okay. Can you tell that story? ’cause

[00:34:35] Cathy: I like it. Well, we, my friend Nancy and I, we were going, we lived at the Alpha Phi house and we walked outside and both of our back windows of our cars in our park in the parking lot were like someone had thrown a rock through them.

[00:34:49] Cathy: College. Um, and I was like, oh my God, oh my God. And we were both freaking out. ’cause you know, you need your car. Like it was life-altering. And so I called my dad and I was like, dad, someone threw a rock through my window. And I was like, going on and on and on and I’m like, and what am I gonna do? And he’s like, I can’t do anything for you right now.

[00:35:09] Cathy: Like, you have to take the steps. Call a glass company, you know, get the yellow pages up. Get the yellow, like exactly. He’s like, walk through and, and actually it did happen again. I was driving home, I was working, this was in Chicago. I had to go to Springfield for a meeting. Long story. And I was driving home and my windshield wipers stopped working, so I pulled off, called my dad and said, dad, my windshield wipers aren’t working.

[00:35:30] Cathy: He’s like, can’t do anything for you. Yeah. What gonna do? You’re gonna have to rise to the occasion, right? And see, here’s the thing. If one of my girls called me from the side of the road, see it’s so different ’cause of the phone ’cause they would so easily be able to track someone down. But I would say the same thing.

[00:35:46] Cathy: You have to keep going. You have to figure this out from where you are. So them calling is a support I. Us driving, you know, five hours to get to them may not be necessary. We can [00:36:00] walk them through how to do things and here’s the thing, they’ve never done it before. Like me saying to my dad, my windshield wipers stopped working.

[00:36:08] Cathy: He’s like, yeah, that makes sense. They probably blah, blah. Like he had had experience with this, but he was also like, I can’t fix it from where I am. So, but you have to have an like, I think it’s just, it’s it, you know, I’m, I’m getting kind of lost in the mix here, but sometimes we’re like, how did our kid not know that because they’ve never experienced it before.

[00:36:27] Cathy: Well, and

[00:36:28] Todd: that is a lot of like our responsibility as parents, right. To. Put them in, in positions to learn things. Right. And if, if, and, and I say we, like, we as a generation have sheltered them from having any type of obstacles, then yeah, it’s gonna be a slow learning curve for young adults. Our, our hope is that I.

[00:36:48] Todd: We love and support our kids, and at the same time they figure stuff out and develop their own sense of resilience

[00:36:54] Cathy: as well. Well, and I’ll kind of temper what you just said because what you just said is kind of the old school thinking, like, did we shelter them from having bad experiences versus when they’re having experiences.

[00:37:05] Cathy: If it be when they’re 5, 10, 14, 17, 18, do they know they can contact us for support? Sure. Do they know that we are willing to help them when they’re 25, 30? That. You know, it’s this paradox that we have with parenting where we’ll say, um, you know, something, our kid will be struggling or have depression, or have something awful happen.

[00:37:27] Cathy: And they’ll be like, I wish they would’ve known they could talk to me. You know, I wish, why didn’t they call me? Why didn’t they ask for help? And yet sometimes we get ourselves into situations with our kids where we’re like, you just need to figure it out, or we’re judgmental. Distant and not helpful. And we gotta find a way to be in a more nuanced place where we, we let them know that we trust in their abilities and that they have the capacity and ability to do things.

[00:37:53] Cathy: But that we’re always available like most of the time. Most of the time my girls are sending me funny like [00:38:00] tic-tacs and stuff. That’s the majority. We text funny things back and forth all the time. Yeah. But when they do text or call about something they need, they don’t want me to solve it. They wanna talk about it.

[00:38:10] Cathy: So like, you know, my daughter will call and be like, I’m debating this or this or this. I’m like, what do you think? And she’s like, I’m thinking this because of this. I might drop this and, and I’m just listening and being curious. And then she decides and she does, you know, I was about to say the drop slip.

[00:38:26] Cathy: There’s no more drop slips. You just do it online. What’s it? Oh, add drop when you Yeah, add drop. See. Do you remember how we had to fill

[00:38:31] Todd: out slips, sweetie? Speak for yourself. I never dropped a class. Really?

[00:38:35] Cathy: No. Well, dropping a class isn’t always because you can’t hack it. Sometimes it’s

[00:38:38] Todd: to, that’s not true.

[00:38:38] Todd: I did drop a class, now I think

[00:38:40] Cathy: about it. Yeah. And sometimes it’s to change your schedule. Yeah, just move things around. Now they can just do it online, but I like. It’s not even about, I like it. I don’t know any different. Why wouldn’t we be a support system for our kids? I don’t understand the whole idea.

[00:38:53] Cathy: The reason we

[00:38:54] Todd: wouldn’t, I’ll take the, the devil’s advocate here, okay. Is because if we do that, then they’re not learning anything,

[00:39:00] Cathy: which that makes no sense. So then they’re going to somebody else, a coach or an advisor, whatever, to do the same process. Like how do you learn people? Yeah. I learn by talking to people and working things through and asking, not asking for advice.

[00:39:14] Cathy: To the point where I’m only depending on other people, but processing through something like two things I, I think of, you remember how Ed Bacon, our buddy Reverend, ed Bacon, you know, wrote in his book, you know, you are the president of your life, but you have a. Not committee, what’s the word I’m looking for?

[00:39:34] Cathy: Cabinet. Yep. And you look to your cabinet because you can’t be an expert on everything. Yep. But in the end, you make the decision. And then I also heard Liz Gilbert say yesterday on, she was on Glennon’s podcast again and she was saying how when people are asking other people for advice too much, it’s called a monkey survey.

[00:39:55] Cathy: I loved this. So not only do we have monkey mind. Where we’re [00:40:00] like, what do I do? What do I do? But when we ask everybody else what we should do, it’s called a monkey survey. ’cause everyone’s gonna give you back some different information. So what I, with my girls, it’s less about go ask everybody else what to do and more like find someone you trust to process through your ideas.

[00:40:18] Cathy: Yeah. And see if it makes sense to you. As you get more curious.

[00:40:23] Todd: Well, and then the hope is that they will ask support or advice or whatever, and then they tune in and trust their own

[00:40:30] Cathy: guts. That’s it. That’s, you just said it better. Yeah, that’s all I’m trying to say is like, I am not the one who’s gonna tell them what to do, and I very rarely say I don’t.

[00:40:38] Cathy: I mean, you could maybe think of times where I’ve been like, do this, but I can’t think of a time we’ve ever been like, you should do this.

[00:40:44] Todd: No. And I, I, you know, I, I’m thinking of. One of our daughters had a relation, romantic relationship with somebody, and I just kind of had a feeling it wasn’t the most healthy relationship.

[00:40:54] Todd: Okay. And it could have been easy for me to be like, Hey, you know what I. This doesn’t feel right. I don’t think that this is gonna go in the right direction. Just some of the behavior she was telling me she was staying up all night, they were fighting. I’m like, this isn’t the way relationships are supposed to work.

[00:41:07] Todd: Especially in the beginning. I didn’t say any of that. I loved who she chose to love. And then there was, and we loved that person as well. Yeah, we love that person and, but she had to figure that out for herself. And

[00:41:20] Cathy: that to me is like a no-brainer. This is exactly what I mean, is that. For me like that, that experience or many others, that my girls have had relationships with friends or with romantic partners.

[00:41:31] Cathy: I had to go through all that too. And you don’t ha as a parent, I’m not gonna be like, here’s what you should do and you should break up with them or whatever. They need to feel their way through that. Yeah. And I’ll tell you something, you don’t know how it’s gonna end up because Todd, if some, you know, the reason Todd and I always tell our history so much is because.

[00:41:48] Cathy: Once Todd and I got together, my friends were not happy about it. Like if you really looked at our history, it wasn’t this, it wasn’t this thing where it’s like, oh, that was always meant to [00:42:00] be. We had to work through a lot of stuff. A little bit of therapy. Yeah, a little

[00:42:03] Todd: bit of therapy, family of origin, stuff happening.

[00:42:06] Cathy: We had to, and so you don’t always know. So you may be like, but it seems disruptive, or they seem not right. Or they seem on the wrong page and they might be at that point, but you don’t know where it’s gonna end

[00:42:17] Todd: up. Yeah. You can’t be like, Hey, this is a bad idea. Yeah. You should break up with this person.

[00:42:20] Todd: You don’t know. At the end of the day, what I think our show is all about is the world out there is a A world that will give you the lessons. Correct. So when they show back up Yeah. Either in a text or a phone call or when they walk in the door. Yep. Our job is to hold space for whatever it is that they’re, and then love them and support ’em.

[00:42:41] Todd: Like it’s kind of funny, and I don’t even know why I started, but when our kids come home from school, we clap. Like we, it’s one of my favorite things when I’m having a decent day, we just clap as if they just were recognized for winning an award for something. I know when all it is is they came home with a well and

[00:42:55] Cathy: it’s our kids.

[00:42:56] Cathy: But it’s also like when your sister comes, we clap. Yeah. We just clap. Comes we clap. Like it’s just, we just clap.

[00:43:00] Todd: But it isn’t, it feel good to. To, to, uh, be a part of lighting up when somebody walks in the room. And I feel like us parents, um, spend way too much time wanting to instruct or discipline or, or be like a safeguard, not spoil.

[00:43:15] Todd: Yeah. Or whatever. And you know, just if we can light up when our kids enter the room, we’re doing a pretty good job.

[00:43:20] Cathy: Well, again, I’ll go back to what I said before, is that. They’re, it’s not about throwing our parents under the bus. They were amazing for their generation. Right. And they evolved from their depression era generation that their parents had.

[00:43:31] Todd: Well, that’s what I was gonna say. And I know you’re onto something, but Okay. How we’re the bridge between Yeah, they, they were too. They were a bridge too. They. Their parents were messed up and probably more so than they, than they did to us. Like, well, my

[00:43:45] Cathy: grandma had like, I, I’m gonna get this wrong, but like 10 siblings or nine siblings, and my grandfather had 10 siblings or nine siblings.

[00:43:52] Cathy: There was all sorts of miscarriages, loss, death. They all worked on a farm. Like it’s such a different world. And then [00:44:00] now, so it’s like. As a great, like my great, great grandma, she couldn’t pay attention to nine kids. No. All at once. Right. So then, then my parents, you know, get the reins and they have two girls.

[00:44:11] Cathy: Yeah. So they could focus a little more, but they also, that was the era of career for women. Yeah. So my mom worked full-time as a teacher, so I’m a latchkey kid. Right. That was that generation. Then our generation is a bridge of self-awareness. It’s like us realizing that communication and connection and consciousness are nec are necessary not just for parenting, but for romantic relationships for the workplace.

[00:44:37] Cathy: And then I’ll tell you something, the thing that I so appreciate about millennials is they’re the ones who actually put things that we’ve been talking about into action. I will not work more than this number of hours. Yeah. I wanna work from home

[00:44:48] Todd: for a day. They, generally speaking, they have more clear

[00:44:51] Cathy: boundaries.

[00:44:52] Cathy: Yes. And our generation. Has been like, you don’t work like we do. You have no work ethic. I, and again, I’m being very general, but I think they’re establishing a healthy work ethic. Right. Ours was nuts, right? Ours was around the clock, come in whenever, and then when phones and computers were part of it, we couldn’t ever log off, get away.

[00:45:10] Cathy: Yeah. So, you know, and then I think Gen Z is politically active and creative and out of the box, like, and then we’ve got Gen Alpha who’s gonna have the, so. There’s, so there’s, it’s supposed to be different. And so this whole, this article, I was, I was gonna read you guys all the statistics because it’s kind, you know, nine in 10 parents.

[00:45:30] Cathy: Okay, I’ll read you guys again. Just throw a little bit out there. Nine in 10 parents rate their relationships with their young adult children as good or excellent. Um, and so

[00:45:38] Todd: do eight stop there. Nine out of 10 parents say that their relationship with their kids are good or excellent. Yeah. That’s astounding.

[00:45:47] Todd: And

[00:45:47] Cathy: it says, and so do eight in 10 young adults. And this is a consistent thing across income, rather than feeling worried or disappointed about how things are going in their children’s lives. Eight in 10 parents say they feel [00:46:00] proud and hopeful. Hmm. And I think that has to do with relationship because if we are distant from our kids and we’re only gauging their success on, are you, do you have a job?

[00:46:12] Cathy: Are you married, are you having kids? Then we’re on our success window is so small. Yeah. Whereas if you have a relationship with your kid, you know that they’re going through certain things or they’re, they made big choices or they’re going through big life decisions and you’re proud of them for evolving as a human.

[00:46:32] Cathy: Yeah. Versus having these markers Yeah. Of success and or, and when I’m saying markers of success, I don’t even know if I. Call these markers success. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Not that they’re not success, but we have an old school version of what kids are supposed to be doing. Mm-Hmm. You know, like. By this age, you know, I remember my friend, um, you know, we all have so many memories like this, but I remember my friend Brian, when we were 25, he was one of my first buddies to get married.

[00:46:59] Cathy: And I remember at the wedding going, oh my God. ’cause I was like just getting my shit together right at 25. I just moved into my own apartment. Like, I just was like, oh my God, you’re getting married. He’s like, Kathy, that’s what you do at 25. Like, he really had. A thought of it’s time to do this and, and he’s not alone.

[00:47:16] Cathy: I think that’s a very common, you know, idea, but. Is it like, could do we have to do that at 25? One of my best girlfriends, who I love dearly is I just found out she was engaged. I was late to the party and she’s a year older than me and she’s getting married for the first time. Sure. See, it’s we, this whole idea of curiosity and broad broadening our perception of ourselves and our kids gives us lots of space for different markers of success.

[00:47:45] Cathy: Sure. What does it mean to you, and if you know your kid. Then that’s more interesting. Yeah. You know? So did you want any other stats? Uh,

[00:47:55] Todd: yeah. I kind of feel like this was a, an interesting conversation and I feel [00:48:00] like we should quit while we’re on top really. Unless there’s a bunch of other stuff that you want to go over, but kinda like Seinfeld.

[00:48:05] Todd: Yeah. That old Jerry. How about,

[00:48:09] Cathy: um, have you been enjoying, did, did you like those clips from Billy Joel on Howard

[00:48:14] Todd: Stern? I love Billy Joel and I love Howard Stern when he is with Billy Joel. ’cause he is in, you know, Howard. I, you know, we can do a whole podcast on Howard and I think he’s not as I. Crazy or stupid as he used to be regarding Oh, he’s chill.

[00:48:28] Todd: Um, but yes, to answer your question, I love, I I wanna, I think we subscribe to Serious XM. I

[00:48:35] Cathy: just don’t know. We just don’t listen to, we don’t listen to the long-form interview. We see the clips. Yeah. And they’re so amazing. Yeah, it’s funny. I. I don’t know why, but I feel like Dax has been talking about Howard a lot.

[00:48:44] Cathy: I think he had someone on, I don’t know if he had, he had Jimmy, Kimmel’s wife and I, That’s bad. I should not say Jimmy. Kimmel’s wife. He had Molly, who is the head writer, um, of the Jimmy Kimmel Show. Mm-Hmm. And she and Jimmy happened to get married later on, but she is more than just, you know, that’s, that’s of course, you know.

[00:49:03] Cathy: They were talking about Howard and um, they were saying that he kind of has to keep up a persona of that life sucks and everything sucks, and I hate everybody because he has so much now. Like he, you know, he’s got this great marriage and all this. You know, it’s not just about the money, but he just has access to so many people Sure.

[00:49:24] Cathy: That he, he has to stay grounded somehow. Mm-Hmm. Um, but that truthfully, he’s mellowed out Yeah. A ton. You know? Yeah. And I feel like he, he had Paul Giamatti on a couple weeks ago and, you know, if you, if anyone saw private parts, you know, it’s his whole history and he was a nightmare. Yes, yes. I, I had lots of different versions of not liking Howard Stern, but anyway, so.

[00:49:46] Cathy: You’ll link to this article, Todd?

[00:49:48] Todd: Uh, I will, I’m writing myself a

[00:49:50] Cathy: note right now. Okay. Link to it. So it’s on the bottom and I’ll just read something. I’ll just read like a few things as we’re closing. Okay. Um, okay. So [00:50:00] this is helpful. I. These close relationships don’t seem to be holding back young people from reaching milestones of independence compared with their parents.

[00:50:09] Cathy: Um, as young adults in the early 1990s, they’re much more likely to be in college or have a college degree. They’re somewhat more likely to have a full-time job, and their inflation adjusted incomes are higher. They are less likely to be married or with children. But is that because of their relationship with their parents or because of their generation having a better understanding of their choices?

[00:50:30] Cathy: Yeah. Like what’s the climate? Yeah, there’s, I think that, and you know, fertility Mm-Hmm. You know, has changed as far as our ability to freeze eggs and that type of thing. And I know I’ll, I’ll end on this note. It’s not the most positive one, but because I have teens and I talk to them and their friends and just girls their age and my college students, I.

[00:50:50] Cathy: They’re not super psyched to have kids. Do you find that to be kind of

[00:50:54] Todd: the, I would be lying if I said that I am informed in that regard. I do not know. Not

[00:51:00] Cathy: all of them. Like they have moments of where they’re like, oh, it’d be so great to have a family, but there’s, I. There is a, a fear about the future, you know?

[00:51:08] Todd: Yeah. I wonder why. I wonder if it’s ’cause we have a trillion, however many trillion dollars of debt.

[00:51:12] Cathy: Well, that and guns. Yeah. And you know, climate change. Climate change, they’re like, I don’t know. And I appreciate their willingness to talk it through.

[00:51:22] Todd: Yeah. If there’s one thing that I just feel.

[00:51:25] Todd: Collectively shameful for, um, is the, is the debt that we are passing down to them. ’cause you and I are gonna be dead and buried until before we ever figure that out. Do you mean as a society? As a US government? Yeah, as a government. About, as a government. Like it’s, and people say, well if all we have to do is take it.

[00:51:42] Todd: Chunk of GDP and it, it’s not as overwhelming of a problem, but it’s getting to the point where it’s unbelievably ridiculous. Yeah, it’s rough. Um,

[00:51:51] Cathy: so, so anyway, read the article, see what you think. Um, I thought it was very thought provoking. I appreciate my friend Annie for sending it to me. And I [00:52:00] think that.

[00:52:01] Cathy: You know, our ability to be in relationship with people if they be our partner, our children, our neighbors, our co-workers. What that, I don’t think there’s anything better than relationships with other people. It keeps us alive and healthy and thriving, right, Todd? That’s right. Isn’t that the best predictor of longevity?

[00:52:17] Cathy: Is connection

[00:52:19] Todd: the best predictor? No. The quality of our life is dependent upon the quality of our relationships. Amen. That’s the bottom line. Keep trucking everybody.

[00:52:32] Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.