Todd and Cathy discuss the explosion of online sports betting and why kids and teens are more likely to develop a gambling disorder than adults. They discuss the reasons why teens use it, how AI is being used to market at them, and how, just like weed, alcohol, and porn, it necessitates an ongoing conversation to make sure our kids understand how it works (not in their favor) and the possible consequences. They also discuss why setting boundaries is essential to practice true empathy and how the 2024 Grammys were a Gen X dream.

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(00:03:04) Is too much empathy a bad thing?

(00:08:05) Finding the middle *

(00:17:27) On-line gambling

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Blog Post

Guiding Teens Through the Maze of Digital Gambling

Hey there, it’s Todd from Zen Parenting Radio. Let’s dive into something that’s been buzzing around my head lately—online sports betting. Yeah, that whirlwind of excitement, risk, and, let’s be honest, a bit of confusion. We recently unpacked this topic on our show, and let me tell you, it was a rollercoaster—kinda like deciding between riding The Demon or The Hulk at the amusement park.

So, here’s the deal. Our chat kicked off with a casual debate about where to place your bets. DraftKings? FanDuel? Or maybe the old-school bookie from down the block? Though I’m not one to usually play the game, I’ve dipped my toes in the water before. Reflecting on this, I couldn’t help but draw parallels between the thrill of a rollercoaster and the ups and downs of betting. It’s that human craving for a rush, a burst of adrenaline, that got us talking.

But then, we took a sharp turn into deeper waters, discussing empathy and its complexities. You might wonder, “What’s that got to do with betting?” Well, it’s about the highs and lows, the care we extend to others, and how sometimes, we need to draw boundaries—much like knowing when to step away from the betting app. It’s a balancing act, really, akin to not letting the thrill of the game cloud our judgment or lead us into compassion fatigue.

The conversation got even juicier as we delved into the recent legalization of online betting and its impact, especially on the younger crowd. The ease of access to these platforms is startling, and we’re seeing a noticeable uptick in gambling among young adults. Sharing stories from a 60 Minutes segment on young gambling addicts really hit home, underscoring the fine line between a fun pastime and a potential pitfall.

Wrapping up, we didn’t just drop this hot potato and run. We talked about how to engage in meaningful conversations with our kids and peers about gambling. It’s about opening the floor to dialogue, understanding the digital landscape we’re navigating, and fostering resilience against the challenges posed by online betting.

So, what’s my take on all this? Online sports betting is like that flashy new ride at the amusement park. It promises a thrill, a chance to feel alive, but it also begs for caution, awareness, and a healthy dose of self-control. Through open dialogue, understanding, and a sprinkle of Zen parenting wisdom, we can navigate these digital waves together.

Remember, life’s a gamble in itself—sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down, but it’s all about how you play the game. Let’s keep the conversation rolling, embrace the thrills, but also know when to put the phone down and enjoy the simpler pleasures. After all, isn’t that what being in this crazy, wonderful world is all about?

Keep Truck’n!



ZPR#750 – Online Sports Betting Full Episode Transcript – DOWNLOAD


Cathy: Okay. Todd, if you have to place a bet, ’cause we’re gonna talk about betting today, do you use DraftKings? FanDuel? BetMGM? What’s your betting method of

Todd: choice? Bruiser. The bookie from down the street.

Cathy: That’s what it used to be, way back when. Do you use any of these?

Todd: No. Okay. But we’re gonna talk about why in a

Cathy: second.

Cathy: Okay? So you have like a reason. Did you ever use them?

Todd: Uh, yes. All right. Let’s go.

Todd: Do, do, do, do. Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Kathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 750, which is a, um, very round number, seven 50. We’re three quarters of the way to a thousand. Yikes. So if we do this for another, I don’t know, four [00:01:00] years, we’ll get to a thousand.

Todd: Or if we do

Cathy: a show every day, we’ll get there faster

Todd: every day. It’s a getting closer, going faster than a roller coaster. Favorite roller coaster? Go sweetie.

Cathy: Uh, old school. It’s the Demon from Great America because I was my favorite when I was young. Now I would say I really liked that, um, Hulk one that we did.

Cathy: Oh

Todd: my God. The Hulk one was good. I don’t remember. I think there’s a Universal in Florida. Um, it like shoots you out. Quick story about Kathy. Um, we were probably not even married and we went to Kings Island. Mm-Hmm. Or Cedar Point in Ohio. I forget which one it was. And um, you told me you were scared of roller coasters, but you decided to go anyways on the roller coaster.

Todd: And I’ve never sat next to somebody who honestly was. Terrified. I’ve been with people that scream because it’s fun. Yeah. You were screaming because it was not fun because

Cathy: that one wasn’t fun. It was [00:02:00] the beast. You were really, there was no place to put my feet. You were really scared. Yes.

Todd: Isn’t that the point?

Todd: Yeah. I just, I’m like, oh, like I’ve, it’s always been fun for me. Oh yeah. Being next to somebody who screams, but they’re kinda screaming through play or screaming through. I know. I’m gonna be all right. You were screaming as if to say, I’m not gonna be all

Cathy: right. Right. I didn’t think I was gonna be all

Todd: right.

Todd: And you turn, it turns out you were. Yeah,

Cathy: I’m still here. Um, I think that I go on roller coasters. Oh. Hello? Um, I go on rollercoasters, uh, I’d say three-fourths of the time, meaning like if I’m somewhere, I like some of them. I just think some of them it’s just not worth my energy because it’s too scary.

Cathy: Yeah. And I don’t, I don’t need to do that. You know, I think people do it. It’s gonna kind of connect with what we’re talking about today. ’cause you know, um, I think part of the reason people do roller coasters is to feel alive and to feel scared. And [00:03:00] I already feel pretty alive, so I don’t wanna do

Todd: it. Um, yes.

Todd: And we are gonna talk about that. I’m first gonna throw you a curve ball. Okay. I was on a walk with some friends of mine this weekend. Okay. And there was a man who I know relatively well. He was talking about empathy, but he was kind of talking about it as if it was, I. He said something like, too, too much empathy is a bad thing.

Todd: Oh yeah. That,

Cathy: that’s a take. People have and, and that’s new

Todd: for me. I didn’t really, yeah, I didn’t, I I, I’m like, empathy is good. ’cause you can walk through the world in a different person’s shoes and you can see the world from their vantage point, which gives you the ability to connect with them more deeply.

Todd: And the scenario he gave was there was an illness in the family, and his wife is super duper empathic to the point where she’s debilitated, uh, because she’s thinking about what is, well then see

Cathy: empathy necessitates boundaries. And so what [00:04:00] he’s talking about, there’s no boundaries there. That’s compassion fatigue, right?

Todd: Mm-Hmm. So I just, I just wanna have a quick discussion about that because it threw me off. I’m like, no, no. Empathy’s good. He is like, yes. And it can also, too much of it can be really

Cathy: bad. Of course. Everything in life. Is that right? I’m actually attempting right now to write something about how. Finding that understanding that there’s nothing that is entirely good and there’s nothing that’s entirely bad.

Cathy: Like there, there’s always this place of understanding between, um, and the thing why I say that about I’m surprised you haven’t heard that, is because,

Todd: um, this was, there’s a lot of things I haven’t heard that you’d be surprised.

Cathy: Well, several years ago, I’m talking maybe possibly eight to 10 years ago when Bernay Brown came out with her first book or second book and she talked about empathy.

Cathy: Um, Adam Grant came back with a too much empathy is bad thing. Like he always has this deep data, you know, thinker [00:05:00] take on things. Yeah. And she came back and was like, uh. You know, I, I don’t agree with you. Like there was kind of a back and forth about it, and that’s because sometimes just the definition of empathy, we think empathy means I can feel what other people are feeling, period.

Cathy: Therefore it’s bad because, you know, the examples that were given, like you don’t want a surgeon feeling the way a patient does or else that surgeon can’t do their job. Well, of course not. And there’s boundaries there, depending on what your role is in any kind of interaction with somebody. As a parent, I have to make choices with my children.

Cathy: I can still understand how they are feeling and maybe even feel it if I’m real spongy, but it doesn’t mean that I am always going to, um, you know, not follow through with something that I know is best for them because I’m feeling them like you, I have boundaries or I have an understanding of my role.

Cathy: Yeah. And so I think it’s the same I. I struggle with this. So the experience that [00:06:00] his wife had, I struggle with this, but I don’t think to myself, man, I wish that I wasn’t an empathetic person. What it is, is, what I realize I have to do is be conscious of, I. Where I am and get rest and separate and, and pay attention to compassion fatigue.

Cathy: And


Todd: could be, um, it’s just a hasty generalization, but because I surround myself with men, I’m always challenged one for me to practice my own empathy, muscle, Uh-huh. And two to get other guys to do the same. So I think that’s why I was kind of thrown off a little bit, like, no, no, no, no. We, like, we need to work on this.

Todd: And I judge that we, generally speaking, men in general need to develop that empathy muscle more than our female

Cathy: counterparts. I agree. And I think the first thing is to define what empathy means. Let’s do that. And empathy necessitates boundaries. So like that’s a big part of it. For example, I am going to be a lot more empathetic, um, with other people if I have my [00:07:00] own understanding of my needs.

Cathy: Yeah. If I am just this open bleeding heart, um, and I’m feeling everybody else’s feelings and I have been in that position before where, and that’s my, you know, that’s something I’ve had to work on, then I’m going to be resentful of other people. Yeah. Then I’m gonna feel like I, and, and I, and I have this sometimes where I’m so de or Depleted that I will say to you, I can’t be with other people right now because I will take in their experiences or I will feel the need to take care of them and that is going to deplete me even more.

Cathy: Yeah. So. The definition of empathy necessitates having that word boundary in there so you can show up for people. So

Todd: it’s just like anything else, right? The answer is somewhere in the middle. And for some reason, I’m thinking of Terry reals relationship grid, and we don’t have to get into it, but on the horizontal axis is boundaries, right?

Todd: And on the left it’s boundary less, which means there are no boundaries, right? And you’re love dependent, right? That’s the term he, and then on the right is walled off. And I think that [00:08:00] most of us guys. Fall into the walled-off category more than the love dependent. Of course there’s exceptions to the rule, but, uh, for me, and you know, the answer is for like, ’cause you are probably sometimes that don’t have enough boundaries.

Todd: Correct. Whereas I’ve probably overcome compartmentalized stuff. Exactly. And I The answers for us to find our way towards each other in the middle. Exactly.

Cathy: And I think people like research or like something that makes them feel better about the way that they respond to things. And if we tend to look at a woman who feels overwhelmed by someone in her family who is sick, or a, or a child who has some, you know, special needs in that moment or overall, or, you know, they have a dying parent and, and they’re feeling overwhelmed.

Cathy: Like, first of all there are there, this gets messy because there are moments in time when feeling overwhelmed is very normal, like. You know, we’re not always gonna be stoic and static where it’s like, we got this [00:09:00] together, I’ve got my boundaries in place. Sometimes it’s overwhelming and he’s talking about his wife felt overwhelmed because someone was sick.

Cathy: And sometimes that’s just called being human. Yeah. And we don’t have to be like, you know what? She did it wrong. Or, or, you know what, I’m not gonna care as much. Yeah. Because I’m gonna have that experience. It’s this experience of. When she starts to realize, like, I, you know, we’ve, you and I have been in that position where if you, you know, if I was taking care of my mom or my dad or one of our kids and things were really heavy, we knew that when we started to be like, Ugh.

Cathy: You know, like, I’m starting to feel resentful, or I’m starting to feel overwhelmed or sad that we needed Yeah. A break for ourselves. And so sometimes that feeling of over overwhelm is an indicator. Yeah. But it’s not always like

Todd: that. What do you think gets in the way? Let’s, let me pick on, um, you know, you or Okay.

Todd: His wife. Mm-Hmm. What gets in the way from you setting that boundary?

Cathy: Because I have been, um, there’s a [00:10:00] few things there. I have been culturally and societally trained to be a caregiver and that it’s my role or something that I’ve developed that strong muscle over time just because of the generation I grew up in and being female.

Cathy: And I have learned how to care for people. So it’s like something I know how to do. Right. And so that’s part of the problem. I think also just who I am, who I came in the world as. Um, and that could be because of my childhood experiences or just could be the soul that I came in as. Who knows? I care about people a lot.

Cathy: I concern myself a lot of what people are feeling. So I’ve got, you know, a bit of a double whammy there. Yeah. Um, and that is A, I love both of those things. I love both of those things about me. But I have to be, you know, I have a lot of, um, I. What are they called? Tools, yeah. That I use because I’ve seen how it, it has impacted me negatively.

Todd: Well, and you’re welcome to turn the tables on me, but I wanna ask you two more questions Sure. About you [00:11:00] being overly empathic sometimes. Okay. What do you get out of it, and then what is the cost of it?

Cathy: Um, well, what I get out of it is a sense of where it feels normal to me. So it’s like, I feel like, um.

Cathy: I’m not having to, it’s, it’s a natural flow for me. It’s kind of like when you go towards something that seems to be like, it’s a very worn neural pathway in my brain. It’s like, here’s what I do. I take care of you. Here’s what I do. I say the right thing, here’s what I do. I, you know, call you and hold you up or whatever.

Cathy: It makes

Todd: you feel connected and, and that you are serving and you’ve, you, there’s, it feels

Cathy: very natural and yes, of course I get things from it. I get someone’s love. I get a sense of worth. And it also just is what I know. Yeah. So it’s like there’s a few things going on. And then, what was the last question?

Cathy: What is, what’s the cost? Well, because then I don’t focus as much on myself. Right. And I don’t know what, um, I [00:12:00] need all the time. Yeah. You get overwhelmed and tired and also resentful of people who don’t do that amount of caregiving. I think that, um, it, it is something that we need to work on in a gender.

Cathy: Yeah. Um, way because I, I feel very frustrated. You know, uh, with you, ’cause you’re the only guy in my family currently that I’m living with, um, is that I am frustrated with you that you often, uh, will wake up and think about you. Yeah. And you don’t think about everybody else. Yeah. And while there, that is good meaning, like, I try to make that practice, you know, wake up and think about what I need, or I talk to women about taking care of themselves, but sometimes it can be too skewed Yeah.

Cathy: To where you are going into that path of I don’t wanna be too empathetic, or I don’t need to think about you guys. You guys take care of yourselves. Yeah. And that’s not really the, the un the deep understanding. We could get into lots of, um, you know, data here, but we have a, a [00:13:00] huge unpaid workforce in our country.

Cathy: And that’s women. Yeah. Like we do a lot of things that nobody pays us for. And everybody’s like, that’s just what you do. And you take care of people and you, you know, you help people when they’re sick and you take care of kids when they’re not in school. And you, you know, down, you, you have a part-time job instead of a full-time job.

Cathy: Like we are tend to be, I’m talking data here, I’m generalizing, you know, we have unpaid jobs and so sometimes. You know, the experience of like, it would be nice if men were doing the same kind of thing because we’d balance

Todd: out. So in other words, it make, it would make it easier for you? Yes. If I moved over towards the middle.

Todd: ’cause then you would be able to move over towards the middle. Correct. With me? Yes. So you could start. Doing your own version of compartmentalization and doing your own version of self-care. But, but in order to do that, I need to create this space for that. I pick up whatever slack may have been missed because you begin compartmentalizing and taking care of [00:14:00] yourself.

Todd: Does that make sense? Yeah. You,

Cathy: if you pay attention to other people Yeah. Um, that you can then I can pay attention more to me and then you can have the experience and the joy of what it feels like to care for other people. ’cause it’s not, this is not a one-way experience of you just need to come up and do more work.

Cathy: Yeah. This is a, you’re missing something important. And the

Todd: example I, I get is like the place where I. One of the very few places I care more than Kathy does, or maybe you’ll disagree with me, is around water, bodies of water with our kids in the ocean. Like I get all jacked up. Yeah, like minor because I’ve had all these close calls and all that, and it’s not like you’re complacent, but you’re just like a normal human being and I’m like, are you talking about the

Cathy: ocean?

Cathy: Yeah. Oh my God, honey, I’m a mess at the ocean. What are you

Todd: talking about? I feel like when it comes to undertoes and things like that, my God,

Cathy: you and I are not a good team in that matter. I am. Okay. This is, I think we’re

Todd: both, I think I am also. Really?

Cathy: That’s what I mean. Yeah. We are not a good, we don’t have a good balance.

Cathy: There’s no bail. I [00:15:00] often do not go down to the beach with all of you. Even with my adult children because it’s so stressful for me. Do you remember when I would say I, I feel like this is a weird conversation ’cause I feel like you used to be annoyed at me when the girls were little and I’d and I still yell to my twenty-year-old.

Cathy: Come closer. Yeah, come in. I am. And why it makes me so sad is as a kid, I wasn’t terrified of the ocean. Yeah. So I have this like baseline of, I used to play in the ocean. No problem. Yes. I got pulled in by an undertow and I had all those bad experiences, but I also was not afraid. I had a childhood experience of enjoying it.

Cathy: But as a parent, I think you learn about people who drown and Todd’s had some near drowning experiences and you’re thinking about your children, they can’t. Right. I’m not afraid of sharks. Are you afraid of sharks? No, not at all. I’m not either. And that’s weird. ’cause I think a lot of people, that’s why they don’t like the ocean.

Cathy: That’s not [00:16:00] me. I don’t like the ocean because it’s unpredictable. No kidding. And my kids can feel as if they’re in control and then all of a sudden it gets darker and the tide turns. Yeah. And the, you know, like I get frustrated on trips because people know people, meaning my family knows that I, I’m a little uptight about water, less about swimming pools, more about ocean.

Cathy: And that sometimes there’ll be a flag out saying, don’t go in the water. Mm-hmm. And then one of my girls will be like, it’s fine. I’m like, it’s not. There’s a flag saying, don’t, why wouldn’t someone

Todd: put that out? Well flag. We don’t go in when the flag says don’t go in the, we’ll, we’ll go in when it’s like, Hey, it’s choppy.

Todd: So be careful. Yeah. But there’s also a flag. It’s like nobody’s allowed in. Right. So we might go in there when they’re like, oh, be careful. It’s choppy. Yeah.

Cathy: And, and I’m not really super afraid of lakes. Mm-Hmm. Either. I feel like they’re pretty smooth and I, you know, again, grew up by a lake, so that to me it’s the ocean.

Cathy: Yeah. The ocean is like a living. Everything’s living. But do you [00:17:00] agree with me on this? The

Todd: power of the ocean is, uh, it’s just amazing. Yeah.

Cathy: It’s what love the most scares a bejesus out of me. But yeah. It’s so Unpredictable and, and lakes can be too, but I just feel like lakes there. There’s a steadiness.

Cathy: Oh dear. I know it keeps making that sound. Um, I don’t know. So it’s funny that you say that ’cause I feel like you used to get annoyed at me

Todd: about water. I just remember being like, these girls gotta get, become better swimmers. Yes, yes. And I feel like I was a little bit more I agree with that. Jacked up or, so anyways, let’s, let’s jump into the topic.

Todd: Okay. Let’s talk about gambling. I woke up this morning to go play pickleball. I checked my podcast feed 60 Minutes, had this thing on, um, gambling, um, specific to, uh, young men. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, John Duffy wrote a book. We’ve been in John’s World here the last few weeks because we, uh, did a conference with them.

Todd: And I just thought it was a really important topic. And it seems like sometimes [00:18:00] you and I don’t. Talk specifically about threats to our children. Sure. And I feel like this is one of those things that I have interest in. And I, I’m a little jaded against gambling. And not to say I don’t, I used to play fantasy football and I stopped just because it was taking way too much of my time up.

Todd: But I do have a few clips from the 60 Minutes that I’d be happy to play at some point. I know you sometimes you get annoyed when I play longer clips, but it’s, um, it’s, there was some Supreme Court decision 1992 that I think it was, no, I think it was recently more recent than, no,

Cathy: the Supreme Court struck down in 19 ninety-two federal law.

Cathy: Okay. There you go. Yeah. In 2018?

Todd: Yeah. 2018. Mm-Hmm. And it basically means that we can, it’s as if we’re at the sports book in Las Vegas. We used to have to get on a plane, go to Vegas to go gamble legally. Mm-Hmm. And now we all have it, at least if we live in Illinois

Cathy: on our phone. Yeah. So basically they struck down a 1992 federal law that said you couldn’t gamble in this way.

Cathy: And it banned commercial sports, uh, betting in [00:19:00] most states. Um, but now we can, now they left it up to the states. You know, so you can, you know, do online betting. Um, because before now, some of the, I remember when this conversation was happening in 2018, and a lot of the people who wanted this to be overturned this federal law, they were saying that betters people who wanted to bet or gamble were forced into the black market.

Cathy: Mm-Hmm. Okay. And so they saw that, you know, this offshore wagering operation as a problem, and then it was going offshore. You know, if we’re gonna bet it’s kind of like the way people thought about marijuana, right. It’s like people are buying it. Yeah. So if it’s really not that bad, why don’t we start taxing it?

Cathy: Yeah. And start like making this a thing that we get money from. Um, and so, you know, play, instead of placing a bet with a bookie, people still do that, but now you can. Not nearly as many. Not you don’t have to. Right, right. You know, now you do it on

Todd: your phone. Um, can I play a clip? Sure. All right. Here we go.[00:20:00]

Todd: Survey after survey

Cathy: confirms that of the 50 million or so sports bettors in the U.S, men under the age of thirty-five are far and away the biggest demographic. For decades leagues feared gambling would corrupt competition. So far that crisis hasn’t happened, but the last five years have given rise to a surge in young gambling addicts.

Cathy: Joe Rosillo now 26 says his problem started in high school. Then in twenty-Twenty-two sports betting apps came to his home state of New York.

Todd: What impact did that have? It had a big impact. I’ve worked my whole life, so I, you know, I got a check every

Cathy: week, but it would deposit right into whatever app I was using.

Cathy: Were

Todd: you

Cathy: interested in the game itself?

Todd: I

Cathy: am a sports fan, but as the years grew

Todd: on, you become less interested in the game itself and more interested in the result. And who needs a bookie

Cathy: when a fresh bet is just a swipe away. You know,

Todd: you can

Cathy: wake up in the middle of the night and take your phone

Todd: out, set an alarm for a match, maybe overseas or something like that.

Todd: I would place a bet on anything, anywhere, [00:21:00] at any time. Poor Joe. Yeah. And it’s so accessible. It’s, and um, I, I might play a clip about, I think they call it micro Betting. I forget where you bet about things within a game. Yeah. And it’s just, um, it’s just a, a thing that I think is really a significant threat and.

Todd: I might bring up John Doevey’s book again, but a few of the problems he sees with our young men is one is obviously porn, one is weed, but he put sports gambling in there as well. And I just think that, um, it’s designed to be addictive and there’s really not that many resources out there. And I, I don’t have, you know, we have stories from when we were younger.

Todd: Yeah. Have friends. I was gonna say, I have so

Cathy: many stories. We

Todd: have friends that got into a lot of trouble, Uhhuh. Um, I thankfully didn’t. But it, it triggers that part of your brain that it, it’s the addictive part of your brain and. You could just

Cathy: get in a lot of trouble. That’s another version of a dopamine rush.

Cathy: Another version of [00:22:00] doing something that can help you focus just on that thing. You know, like gambling is one of those things that if you are gambling and focusing on betting and winning money, then your attention is there. Mm-Hmm. And you don’t have to feel all your feelings. You don’t have to deal with what’s happening.

Cathy: You get to just focus on this next game or whatever it may be. And when, when you and I were in college, I, it’s funny because I don’t know that at our college betting was as huge. When I moved to Chicago and met a lot of new friends and heard about their schools, bigger universities, there was a huge betting thing.

Cathy: Like I had friends, new guy friends and girlfriends who had bookies. Yeah. And I was like, is that a thing? So at our college did, was there? No, I don’t think it

Todd: was as big as Drake as it was on other college campuses. On bigger campuses. Yeah. Maybe it was going on and we didn’t know it, but it just, first of all, I didn’t have any money.

Todd: I know. Um, so it’s hard to gamble with money you don’t have, but, [00:23:00] um, I don’t know if I’ll play it in the clip, but you know, these kids gamble with their loans that they get from Mm-Hmm. The federal government, their financial aid for school. Yeah. Or they gamble their of Mm-Hmm. From wherever. So, you know, when you’re, when you’re, if you’re.

Todd: Addicted to it, you’ll get the money from wherever,

Cathy: just like any other addiction. Yeah. Right. I mean, they may also work full-time, but then their paycheck goes to, you know, yeah. Goes to bedding and they’re, and, and, and it’s really messy because, you know, there was a lot of, again, from my friends and my twenties who were still gambling, um, a lot of them would make money.

Cathy: Right. And they’d be like, oh, I’m up Fifty-thousand, or whatever. Which, when you’re that age is an incredible amount of money. Like you’re, it’s overwhelming. But then the problem, and like with any addiction or with anything is you keep gambling and then all of a sudden you’re underwater again. Well, and we

Todd: always hear the stories about our friends when they win a bunch of money.

Todd: Right. [00:24:00] Uh, people are not nearly as excited to tell you the stories about how they just lost

Cathy: a bunch of money. And I had friends who dated, uh, and, and, and, um, I’m. Speaking of men, because I didn’t know a lot of women betting. I do now. I know women doing online betting, but I didn’t know a lot of women who had bookies when I was in my twenties.

Cathy: But I had guy friends who were underwater and owed bookies money and were on the hook. And it was a big threatened deal. Threatened with physical violence. With violence. Yes. So it’s, it’s one of those things where when you say it out loud, you’re like, that can’t be real. And it is, it’s real. It’s absolutely real.

Cathy: The

Todd: two quick things I, um, I picked up rescuing our sons by John Duffy this morning, and there’s just a little piece on sports gambling and how our young men are struggling with it. It’s interesting ’cause he starts out saying, um, you know, through a certain lens, it’s really not that bad of a thing.

Todd: Mm-Hmm. And what he means by that is it’s a vehicle connection between guys. Uh, they talk a lot about it. There’s like, um, [00:25:00] it’s, it’s just, it’s a fun thing for guys. For people. People to do. Yeah. ’cause women do, which is great. Mm-Hmm. Um, yet it’s designed for, um, to. To keep betting like they, these house money.

Todd: Yeah. These apps are designed to incentivize and influence you to do it. The one thing he did say in the book, which I thought was interesting is a lot of the kids in John’s offices office say that this is their pathway towards financial security, right? So they, they minimize like, I don’t wanna go find a job.

Todd: I can just gamble. And I’m here to tell you, I don’t know a lot of things for certain, but there’s like less than one-tenth of 1% who can gamble better than the casinos can’t. And what I mean by that is if you gamble long enough, the odds of you winning are so slim that you’re, it’s, it’s a system that is built against you

Cathy: is this, [00:26:00] isn’t this what day traders do?

Todd: Well, day traders is a little bit different. I mean, there’s certainly gambling in day trading as well, but these games like Black Jack or online betting of the Super Bowl, it’s designed so that they balance out a certain amount of, um, risk and reward. Well, if it’s Chiefs versus the Niners, right? Mm-Hmm.

Todd: And all the, all the, the House wants to do is make sure there’s an equal number of bets on each side, right? Because they get a cut of all of that. Correct. Um, and that’s not always true. Sometimes casinos do like to hedge certain ways, but, um, for these young men and young women who actually gamble and think that this is their pathway towards not having a job, one out of a lot of people will be able to maintain financial security.

Todd: Over the long haul

Cathy: by gambling. Well, believing that that is a pathway to financial security [00:27:00] is like believing porn is sex and intimacy. Right. It’s false. Yeah. And why this is an important conversation, you know, when we’re talking about parenting is it’s yet another thing to have a conversation with your kid about, not a sit down across from the table conversation.

Cathy: Yeah. Open conversation about online betting and about, its how it’s created. I mean, now AI is involved in online betting, so the specificity, the, is that the right way to say it? The specificity how, how like accurate it is as far as making sure they don’t lose too much

Todd: money. Well, and you know the, it’s designed to put them in ahead, in favor.

Todd: Correct. Versus the person who is betting and they have all these tricks to try to incentivize more and more gambling. The one last piece on the Duffy thing is the one thing John says, and I appreciated this is the problem is kids have a perception that work is really bad. Like work is hard and work sometimes is hard.

Todd: Mm-Hmm. But his invitation is for us parents to [00:28:00] not model the drudgery of the day-to-day working life experience. So in other words, share some of the good things about what you get out of being employed by a company. Like you get significance, you get notoriety, you get financial security, you have a sense of meaning.

Todd: Like he’s really like play up the idea of the best parts of our job as opposed to just simply complaining about work.

Cathy: Does that make sense? I mean, yeah, that’s, I think that’s definitely part of it. I think that that kids are also not just thinking about when they’re gonna work. Like, ’cause we’re talking about 16, 17, eighteen-year-olds who really just want a hit now.

Cathy: Yeah. Of something where short term, short-term. Yeah. So yes, I see the big picture in that, you know, in guiding our kids to a place where they go into some kind of world of work that is interesting to them. Not just, you know, you’re only gonna make money if you become a, you know, an accountant. But [00:29:00] there’s, you know, like there’s a book I used to use in my college class called Right Brainers.

Cathy: Right Brainers Will Rule the World. Um, is that what it was called? Right brainers. You want me to look it up? Yeah, look it up. It’s by Daniel Pink. I don’t want to call it the wrong thing, but it’s about right brainers and about how the future of work is going to be a more creative endeavor. You know, it’s going to be creating jobs and being able to accommodate new kinds of thinking.

Cathy: And you know, like it, it’s not so cut and dry because a lot of the jobs that used to be so cut and dry, we can now, computers can handle them, you

Todd: know? Yeah. Name, name of the book is Right. Brain. A Whole New Mind. A Whole New Mind. Okay. Moving from the information age to the conceptual age.

Cathy: Yeah. So it’s not called right brainers.

Cathy: Well, you Roll the World, but that’s basically what I call it because I’m teaching social work and I basically, yes, I know there’s AI therapists out there now and a lot of the model is, you know, we’re gonna mess around with this area. But the truth is, real connection comes from human connection [00:30:00] and a computer

Todd: wired towards.

Todd: Being with

Cathy: people. Totally. And so we’re gonna play around with this AI thing, and it’ll probably always be out there as far as like a therapeutic model, but I’m telling you, it’s connection with people that changes people’s brainwaves. And so.

Todd: Can I play 30 more seconds? Uh, go ahead,

Cathy: finish your thought.

Cathy: Wait, because you’re, you kind of threw a lot out there as far as like understanding why people gamble. And the thing is, is that first of all, it’s accessibility and it’s silly when it’s like, for example, I went to buy some wine. We were in Italy in November, and I found this really great Italian wine, and I was like, I can’t, it’s not in the states.

Cathy: And so I looked it up and I, and they’re like, wait, can you go on this website? Are you 21? And I’m like, I am. Check a box. They’re like, okay, come on in.

Todd: Like, you somehow managed to get through that. It

Cathy: really wasn’t too hard. Well done. Now I know some bedding, some like digital betting, there is a little more like, um, to like Authentication.

Cathy: Yeah. You know, [00:31:00] like you have to give a social security or you, it’s a little deeper than that. Again, our kids who are digital natives Yeah. Can tend to jump over these hoops of, they can figure it out quicker. Yeah. So a lot of times they’re like, no, you can’t, you gotta be 18 or 21 to gamble. And it’s like, well it’s kind of like saying you can’t be on Instagram until you’re a certain age, but kids much younger are on.

Cathy: Yeah. So, and I was reading that a lot of parents involve their kids in their bets, so kids have access to their parents’ account. Yeah. You know, it’s like the kid is the bookie, like putting it in or making the choices. And so already you have a kid and some kids who are 16, once you have your own job, often have their own bank accounts.

Cathy: Yeah. So parents don’t always know. The money coming in and out, which I’m not a big fan of. Let’s oversee everything our kids are doing.

Todd: It’s so funny because I feel like we talked about empathy. Yes. And the spectrum. Uh-huh. Gambling by itself is not a bad thing. Right. You know, it’s in a vacuum, it’s Oh, you’re placing a bet.

Todd: It’s when it gets it’s competition. [00:32:00] When it gets too far. When it becomes too much. Yeah. You know, too much of anything isn’t good.

Cathy: Well, and too much, and with a misunderstanding of how it works. Yeah. Because, you know, to your point, like if somebody’s like, oh, you know, if we’re playing the game of like, you know, indecent proposal or other movies where they’re like, I’m gonna go bet this one ship and win all my money back.

Cathy: Yeah. It’s like, it doesn’t work that way. Has it worked that way? Maybe. But a lot of times those people who make a ton of money go back downstairs, I’m talking about like in a casino, and then spend that money. Well found that out

Todd: in the indecent proposal. Woody Harrelson had a really good night. He was halfway home to paying off his mortgage.

Todd: And he is like, I figured by, he says something stupid like, by two o’clock tomorrow afternoon we’ll have it all back. And then it

Cathy: was gone. And then it was all gone. Yeah. And, and this is like a, uh, you know, this is a, um, a trope, or maybe that’s not the right word, but it’s a plot point a lot of times as far as thinking that betting is gonna win us money.

Cathy: And it, and [00:33:00] it gets really confusing because there are people, like we were just with one of your friends and he just won a ton of money. Yeah. One of my best friend’s brothers just won a ton of money with online betting. So it does happen, but there’s also this belief then, now I have all this money to play with that was never mine.

Cathy: Yeah. And so it’s a, and so to your point, like people who have, who are like, I’m gonna bet. Um, you know, five bucks on the game this afternoon. So just to make it interesting and fun. So I actually have someone I wanna cheer for. And it’s not just about the game, it’s about who gets the first kick. Who gets the first touch.

Cathy: Yeah. The prop bet. Yeah. All those bets. And that’s fun because it’s like, it’s bringing you into the game, but that, that thing that you just played, the guy’s like, I’m not even really, he’s like, I’m a sports fan. Yeah. But I’m not really watching the game anymore. Right. I just want the outcome. Right.

Todd: We used to watch sports because we love the game.

Todd: Right. And now we’re simply. Uh, rooting for somebody at a last-minute field goal to cover a spread where it really has nothing to do with the integrity of [00:34:00] the competition of who’s winning this game. Instead, it’s about, am I going to hit

Cathy: my money or not? Exactly. And so then you’re kind of missing the whole, because, you know, I think there’s a lot of data that says it’s brought more people to sports, you know, and, and again, in that, in the 60 minutes time, there’s a funny clip where they’re like, some people are watching or not watching, they are betting on like a tennis match that’s like 16th

Todd: place.

Todd: No, no, it’s, it’s neither of the two tennis athletes were in the top hundred. Yeah. So nobody would even really, nobody cares be concerned about it yet. They’re making it available to bet on because somebody, you know, the more product that they have, uh, the more likely it is somebody’s gonna bet on that product.

Cathy: And because it’s ai, because it’s like so easy to figure out who people are and when they bet they are also getting push notifications that say things like, this is a game you usually bet on, or this is the time of day you usually bet. Or here’s a sport that you usually bet on. Yeah. So even if you’re trying to be like, I’m [00:35:00] gonna back away from this, they know,

Todd: they know you, they know your preferences.

Todd: They know what time of the day you usually Yep. Gamble. They don’t, they know what sports you typically bet. Yep. What type of bets you usually do. So I wanna like just pull back and say, okay, this is a great discussion about gambling. How do we help parents? Let’s say that there’s somebody out there that has a son, a daughter that they fear is, is in the grips of a gambling addiction.

Todd: Yeah. What do we do?

Cathy: Well in the grips of a gambling addiction is, is big. Yes. That means that you need. Therapeutic help and you know, and that kind of thing like that. We don’t have a simple answer for

Todd: that. I would say gamblers

Cathy: anonymous. Yeah. Right.

Todd: Yeah. GA or, but what if you’re just worried, hey, this is getting too, too much.

Todd: Like, they’re not like fully addicted but,

Cathy: or just that they don’t even know their kid. Like I kind of look at it the bigger picture of like, you may have a kid who’s gambling a little bit or you may have kids who haven’t started, but you wanna have this conversation. And I feel like it, that that’s why I related to porn or anything else is it’s knowing that it’s [00:36:00] available and it’s something that people do.

Cathy: Yeah. Your kids talking to your kids about that it’s out there is not more, is not gonna drive them to it. Like they know it’s there. Yeah. You know, you guys like, and I’ll go back to the parenting thing ’cause I know you want me to answer that, but. When Todd and I watch a football game, at least one football game, I remember we started counting how many ads there were.

Cathy: Oh yeah. For online gambling. Yeah. Right. And like I said, it’s all different. Like I said these at the beginning, but Bet MGM, Caesars, Sportbook, DraftKings, FanDuel, WinBet. And those are just the ones I wrote down. I’m sure there’s plenty others. And so. The idea that our kids aren’t seeing that while they’re watching football.

Cathy: And you’ve got like major stars promoting it. Well, you’ve got them doing advertisements. Well,

Todd: I think it’s built into the coverage now. It always has been. Like, I remember Jimmy, the Greek would be on CBS Yes. NFL Today or whatever it was doing that. Yeah. And he would say, no, take the money line or whatever.

Todd: Yeah. So it’s always been around, but it is that times a thousand

Cathy: because now those [00:37:00] commentators, I don’t know this for a fact, but I’m sure they’re getting paid by the, you know, there’s like a sense of let’s promote it here and you know, there’s all these podcasts about it and there’s sports radio about it.

Cathy: And you know, it’s interesting because I grew up, my grandparents loved Vegas. Sure. And they also loved when the riverboats came around in, uh, Wisconsin. ’cause they lived in Galena. Um, they would go on the riverboats and gamble too. So they, they, they loved to gamble. The interesting thing though is I grew up with them gambling like penny slots and nickel slots.

Cathy: So they would maybe lose in a day. Like 30, $40, which again is still a lot of money if you’re like trying to save money. But I never saw for growing up with people who gambled. ’cause my parents liked it too occasionally. Sure. Like, I went to Vegas with them. Um, sometimes they would go to the boats. My aunt likes to go, you know, to the casinos, like the new Hard Rock casinos and stuff.

Cathy: But, and I’ve seen them win some things, but I’ve also never seen them [00:38:00] Deplete their savings or something. I, I’ve kind of, you know, regardless of how you feel about it, I never felt threatened by gambling. That’s why it’s

Todd: always subjective. Like back when Michael Jordan was playing basketball, there were news reports coming out saying he had a problem.

Todd: Right. And the guy was like a multi-millionaire. Right. He was betting whatever, a hundred thousand dollars on a golf match or something like that. If he lost, he was still fine. Right. So is that really mean that he has a gambling problem? I don’t know. I, I think my answer would probably be no, he’s, he’s not.

Todd: I think where it gets bad is when you don’t have the ability to provide for yourself or your family. Um, but aside from that, I think it’s, uh, it’s harder for me to judge those people.

Cathy: Yeah. And, and it can be difficult sometimes, you know, Todd and I go to Vegas a lot, but then if you also go to the casinos, you know, if there’s casinos around you, and sometimes when you see the clientele, you wonder if they have enough money to be doing what they’re doing is this, we don’t know.

Cathy: Right. You [00:39:00] can’t just tell by looking at somebody. But there is a concern often that people are, you know, kind of like. Buying lottery tickets that people are blowing the money that they got on Friday to have this kind of like dopamine rush over the weekend.

Todd: Speaking of lottery tickets, um, so like, let’s say I’m at a gas station.

Todd: I see somebody with a really broken down car or something like that, spending $30 on scratch Lottery tickets. Yeah. Tickets. Tickets. Yeah. There’s, in the past there’s been a judgment in me like, oh my God, do you have, do you have any idea how bad of odds you are to end up ahead in this vehicle of gambling?

Todd: Right. And then, I don’t know where I heard it from, Daniel Pink or one of the other guys. They’re like, I. There’s so much value when somebody who doesn’t have abundance to at least have hope, hope for just a little bit. Yeah. So it it, it reset my judgment of it because, uh, I happen to be somebody where I, I’m pretty sure I’m always gonna have food on the table.

Todd: And for somebody who’s unsure, I [00:40:00] would judge them and only to find out that, that hope. Is such a strong motivator and it just made me judge the people a lot

Cathy: less. Yeah. And that to have the joy Yeah. Of having a $2 or $1 scratch-off and to maybe win five bucks, 15 bucks or another ticket. Yeah. Is a it, it’s in itself a joy.

Cathy: Like there not everybody. Yes. There is a, uh, you know, there’s billboards about, oh, it’s up to a billion dollars. Yeah. Or it’s up to 5 million. So yes, we are getting targeted, you know, to, to go buy a ticket. You know, they’re saying Go buy a ticket ’cause you could become a, a billionaire or whatever it is.

Cathy: But we also have all this data around, you know, as soon as somebody wins the lottery, their, their happiness goes down. Yeah. They actually become more depressed. Yeah. Because it doesn’t quite fit into the lifestyle they have. They usually lose most of their money. They usually lose it or they get ripped off in some roundabout way.

Cathy: Yeah. Someone claims to help them and that ends up stealing from, [00:41:00] there’s so many stories. I think there was actually a documentary about lottery winners, but we have this, I mean, Todd, it’s so deep because we have this false perception because we live in a capitalistic society that if we have money, we will be happy.

Cathy: Now there’s been plenty of research that debunks that where we know that there is a certain amount of money. That if you get to that level, there’s a happiness level that you have. Even if you earn more money on top of that. Now if you’re in poverty and then you earn a certain amount of money, and so you’re no longer in, you know, there’s no longer that, you know, hand-to-mouth kind of experience.

Cathy: Yes. Your happiness level goes up. But beyond that, it really doesn’t. Yeah. And so it’s this misunderstanding we have about what money does for us. You know, like all the quotes we’ve heard, you know, the Jim Carrey stuff, I wish everybody had a million dollars. So if they had it, they would understand that’s not where it’s at.

Cathy: Mm-Hmm. You know. So it all starts there, right? Because we believe that that money is going to change our lives. Right?

Todd: Um, I think like [00:42:00] the, the level, and this is years ago, we, we did a few podcasts on money and happiness and the balance between the two. But it’s something like in this country, if you have whatever, if you make over 55 KA year, your likelihood of being any more happy after that, it

Cathy: doesn’t increase.

Cathy: It does not increase. And, and there’s all sorts of different research around it. Like some people start it much lower as far as like, you know, and all and isn’t happiness relative to Right. Because it just depends on your needs. Right. You know where you live. So it is, it, it was, it’s interesting because I feel like we’ve talked about this a lot in our family, but just I think it was like.

Cathy: Maybe three or four months ago, Sky came home and in her sociology class, she had learned this about money that the happiness doesn’t go up. You know, she heard the statistic from her teacher and she came home and told us like it was brand new information. Now you and I were not like, no, we told you that.

Cathy: It’s good to have a kid hear things from multiple sources, and then it goes [00:43:00] in a lot easier. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I always think that with my college students, sometimes they don’t buy what I’m selling. Mm-Hmm. As far as here’s the researcher, here’s what mindfulness does. And they’re like, eh.

Cathy: But I always think to myself, if you hear it again and again and again from different resources, then it’ll finally, it’ll finally, it’ll finally land. So I just think that it just depends, like you and I. Our girls know that we love Vegas and we go to Vegas all the time. We are the worst gamblers in the world.

Cathy: And I don’t mean that we lose money. You’re the worst game. I just mean that. I will not do it. I will sit with you. And I usually take out like $50, sometimes a hundred. We did a hundred

Todd: once. Really, I always bring 300 bucks with me. You do? Yeah. But we never do it. No, we don’t. Um, I, we’re like, we’re so boring.

Todd: Back in the old days, I used to have you sit down with me at a blackjack table. Yes. Because at least I understand all the rules. Right. There’s so many games. It’s hard to manage. I like blackjack too. You do until you lose a hand. Right. And then you get all jacked up. So now [00:44:00] we’re, we’re we pivoted over to the video poker.

Todd: Yes. That’s much right. ’cause there’s no dealer, there’s no social social pressure.

Cathy: Yes. Because you screw up other people’s cards too. I know, like as soon as I, I always get nervous and I, like you said, I don’t do this much anymore, but to go sit down on a table that’s already going, you screw up the deal.

Cathy: You don’t screw it up, but you change it. You

Todd: do. I know you do, sweetie. But as long as you, uh, play normally. Yeah. It’s okay. Nobody’s gonna be upset with you. True. If you’re hitting on 17 or Right. Staying on nine, then yeah, people are gonna, what are you doing? Staying on nine. But I should pull up that. I’ll stay.

Todd: I’ll stay.

Cathy: Um, what about, I’m friends. She’s like, hit me, hit hit me.

Todd: There’s so many movie lines about gambling. I think of Swingers, I think of friends. I think, uh, Rainman. Rainman, the Hangover. The Hangover. Oh my God, there’s so many good ones. I know you should just like put all those clips [00:45:00] together, but I’m too lazy to do that.

Cathy: Rounders. That was Todd and my first date. I thought Titanic was no r no, the first you, you asked me on, on a date and we went to see rounders and then like a week later you gave me a gift. What’d I give you of a VCR cleaner? Oh yeah. Because my VCR, are we aging ourselves or what? My VCR was getting like kind of wonky and then I used the VCR cleaner.

Cathy: And then you came over and we watched Titanic.

Todd: Um, yeah. And, but there was always something wrong with the sound on it. I know it sucked and it

Cathy: never really worked. Sucked well, I was poor. I didn’t have a lot. I mean, let me say that better. I didn’t have enough money. People, it’s not always nice to say that because I had a job and I was working, but I was also going to school, so I didn’t have a lot of money.

Todd: How about my favorite movie? Uh, my favorite, um, part of Rounders. You ready? Okay, let’s hear it.

Todd: You’ve seen half the

Cathy: hand. How the fuck are you betting into us? You sure? This is why Dave, it’s your money the kid’s betting [00:46:00] with. That’s plenty wise. We know what we’re holding and we know what you’re holding. The fuck. You know what we all got.

Todd: Summer clerkship

Cathy: in your office says, I know

Todd: what you’re holding.

Cathy: I don’t bet with jobs like that. Let’s just say I’ll put you at the top of the

Todd: list if you’re right. Okay, well

Cathy: you were looking for that third three, but you forgot that Professor Green folded it on fourth Street and now you’re representing it. You have it. Um, the DA made his two pair, but he knows they’re no good.

Cathy: Judge Kaplan was trying to squeeze out a diamond flush, but he came up short And Mr. Eisen is Futilely, hoping that his queens are gonna stand up. So, like I said, the Dean’s bed is $20.

Todd: Well, kiss my ass. My, I love that.

Cathy: It’s so great. Me too. Because there are people that can in the world Yes. Who not only understand cards, but can play poker for a living.

Cathy: Yes. There are people that play poker for a living and we all wanna be those people, but we’re not just like, we’re all not dancers and we’re all not singers. Yes. Like they’re, and I think some people just have this [00:47:00] intuitive sense. They can read people, they know how to, they have a, they have a good idea of risk.

Cathy: Mm-Hmm. Um, that’s not the right way to say it. They have a good tolerance. Mm. For risk. Um, and they’re, you know, and, and what’s his name in Rounders? What’s Matt Damon’s name? I know Worm. It is the other guy. Michael,

Todd: isn’t it Michael? No,

Cathy: it’s not Michael. I can’t remember. I. I’ll look it up. Yeah, look it up.

Cathy: But he’s brilliant and he should be playing cards and I, you know, I don’t know if everyone agrees with that after seeing rounders, ’cause he kind of messes up his life. But really he messes up his life because Worm messes up his work, messes it all up, you know. But it sounds like Worm. Mike, Mike McDermott.

Cathy: It is Mike. It’s Mike. They call him Mikey though. Yeah. They don’t call him Michael. Well, whatever. Um, um, Mikey is a big winner here. That’s a good for movie.

Todd: Who’s the big winner here? Mikey. Mikey’s a big winner. Mikey’s a big winner. Um, what about a little shot from Teddy? KGB? Oh boy. [00:48:00]

Cathy: Eric. Give it to all by then, then you are

Todd: mine.

Todd: What’s up with that accent? So we do the

Cathy: Oreo. I know. If he, he would open the Oreo and it was like some kind of giveaway with his cards. Yeah, that’s his tell. Yeah. So it’s like, it’s like the, the talking about gambling, it’s like anything else. It’s like alcohol, right? It’s like any addiction. It’s, it can be fun.

Cathy: Like we can, you and I can have fun going to Vegas and fun talking about rounders and maybe placing a bet or doing a bingo game for the Super Bowl and putting some money on it or playing blackjack with friends. But if it, if it gets to a point where you believe that this is gonna work out for you, that this isn’t just for fun.

Cathy: This is going to be the way you pay for school, or this is gonna be the way that you find yourself worth, or this is gonna be the only way you get a dopamine hit, um, or you’re going to use it as a way to avoid your life, then it spins outta control. One

Todd: more movie line. Okay. I’m the fucking

Cathy: [00:49:00] loser. I’m the one that should be, sorry we don’t talk that line.

Cathy: Could we just go please? We go. Look at me. Look at me, your money, and you know what else? You’re a big winner tonight. I wanna leave. You’re a big winner. I’m gonna ask you a simple question. I want you to listen to me. Who’s the big winner here tonight? That you Casino. Huh? Mikey Mikey. That’s you. Mikey’s the big winner.

Cathy: Mikey wins. Oh, I. Like he wins. So young and you know, so you asked me like 15 minutes ago, what do we say to parents about this? You have to, this has to be part of your conversation with your kids. Yeah. You know, there, if you do gamble, you have to talk to them about the way you do it. If you are gambling and you are losing a lot of money and you are not making great choices with gambling, they are watching that.

Cathy: And, you know, with anything, things go one way or the other. Either they follow or they completely separate from it. Right? There’s, there’s kids who grew up with smokers who became smokers, and there’s kids who hated smoking so much that they wouldn’t, they don’t even [00:50:00] wanna be around it. That was me. You know, that was you.

Todd: Yeah. Um, yeah, I totally agree with you. And if there’s, um, a way for me to encapsulate what Zen Parenting has been about these last 13 years, and you’ve probably said it in different words, just have conversations. Yeah. Weed porn, gambling, sex. We have to figure out how not to be afraid to have these conversations.

Cathy: Correct? Correct. They’re, they’re messy, they’re open-ended. Sometimes your kids are gonna say something that, that aren’t great. Sometimes you won’t have an answer for them. It’s an ongoing communication, but we need to add these things that are in our children’s generation to the mix. A lot of times we’re focused, like for example.

Cathy: And, and we still need to talk about drunk driving. Don’t get me wrong, we need to talk about it. We need to make sure our kids have DDs, we need to, you know, designated drivers. But for the most part, this generation is really different than our generation. Sure. They, they got the memo. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Cathy: They, as far as the kids around me that I see, not just my own [00:51:00] kids, but other people’s kids and clients’, kids and college kids, they are like, no, there’s, there’s a driver and they have Uber. Yeah. It’s a different time. Yeah. So sometimes when we’re like, Ugh, we just really gotta focus on this drunk driving, it’s like, no, in this generation, there’s other things

Todd: too.

Todd: There’s not bigger threats, but there’s different, different threats that we need to address. And to your point, I think this generation’s so much better at making sure there’s designated driver. I do too. I, I have no science to back that up. There probably is science out there, but you know, we never. Dealt with that we always, there’s always some idiot who’s ready to get behind the wheel of drunk always.

Cathy: And, and it just didn’t have the stigma that it has now. Right. We didn’t, we did. It was just like cigarettes, you know what I mean? And I know cigarettes are still out there, but people, vaping is more, it seems to be more noticeable and common than people smoking regular cigarettes. Yes. It’s just things change things, you know, you have an organization like Mothers Against Drunk Driving comes along and the perception starts to [00:52:00] change about doing that.

Cathy: And obviously you see all the stats and people kill people and it’s awful. And you know, the thing about these experiences that our kids are having around porn or around, um, you know, weed or around gambling, is they just have easier access to these things. And so it’s. It’s not the same as our experience.

Cathy: It’s not the same. We, their, their ability to access it. So it’s not saying, okay, you’re never gonna have a phone ever again because online gambling is there. That’s not gonna work because they need to learn how to, you know, they ha they need a phone. Um, again, depending on the age of your kids to be in life, you know what I mean?

Cathy: To, you know, interact with their generation to have a job to use GPS, but they also need to understand what gambling. W where the money comes from, what it does, why people use it, and why it can’t sustain you in life.

Todd: Um, can I pivot? [00:53:00] Yeah, go ahead. Um, I just wanna say thanks to two brand new team Zen members Cami from France.

Cathy: Nice. I love

Todd: international members. And then, uh, Nicole from Rhode Island. Nice. If you don’t know what, uh, team Zen is, uh, join the Circle is a Team Zen membership platform. It’s an app with Zen parenting rate is complete Parenting content collection, plus live talks all in one place. We have all these different micro communities.

Todd: It’s 25 bucks, cancel at any time. So please join us. I don’t know when our next Zen talk is, but it’s

Cathy: coming up. So I think it’s, I think we decided it was next week. Next week. So, so can I just share a few stats that I wrote down? Sure. Yeah. Um, so they, they, they’re finally doing some research. I actually did some Googling about how many girls and women are gambling now and they don’t, I could find nothing.

Cathy: I could find things about people, you know, and they’re not being gender specific, but it seems to be more, uh, boys and men. So for example, in Long Island, they did this research and did you say [00:54:00] Log Island Long? L-o-n-g sorry. Not Long Island. Long Island teens. And people in their early to mid-twenties are now the number one demographic calling gambling hotlines.

Cathy: Okay. That’s research that they have. So, because if you guys notice in these commercials or these ads. For all of these gambling sites. They give you the gambling hotline. Yeah. Um, the, the GA hotline. Um, but, you know, and, and I’m glad people are using it, but it’s really the only thing. Sure. Um, it says a survey of 16 to 20 five-year-olds found that almost 70% saw at least four gambling ads on social media every week.

Cathy: Um, which obviously they know they’re living in a very pro gambling culture. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s out there. Um, a national survey of 18 to 20 two-year-olds found that 58% of, uh, respondents have placed at least one bet this year. Geez. Um, nearly 70% of college students living on campus tend to be betters [00:55:00] among sports betters pursuing a college degree.

Cathy: A little over 40% have placed bets on their own schools’ team. Okay. So you, you go to a, a university that has like a big basketball team or a big football team or whatever, the likelihood of their being bets is higher. Yeah. That’s why they said they’re betters. Um. Kids, and this is the hard part, this is always the hardest part to hear, but this is why we need to have these conversations.

Cathy: Kids and teens are more likely to develop a gambling disorder than adults. Of course. Uh, I will say give the full research, but we probably know this Yale explains that 2% to 7% of youths develop a gambling disorder as opposed to about 1% of adults. And this is because their brains are not fully developed.

Cathy: And so they don’t have the rational thinking. They don’t have the prefrontal cortex, they don’t have the life experience. And so they’re more likely to make it their go-to Yes. Um, so anyway, uh, just a little, just one more thing. Sure. [00:56:00] Only 2% of parents think their teen has used an online betting platform

Todd: that seems borderline

Cathy: ridiculous.

Cathy: So, and in, in it was much higher with parents of teen boys. I. Uh, parents of teen boys, 3% thought that their kid had placed an online bet parents of teen girls 0.4%. Hmm. That’s why I was looking for information around girls who bet. Because I know girls and women who bet. Sure. Okay, so I know it’s happening.

Cathy: Um, but there doesn’t seem to be any conversation

Todd: about it yet. Well, and I think it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. It’s like, you know, we’re in the infancy of this online from our phone, micro bedding availability, and they’re gonna keep throwing money at, I think the thing is, these gambling sites are gonna throw incentives at you that are really, um, seductive to jump in.

Todd: They’ll be like 50 bucks free money. Just place a bet and we’ll give you [00:57:00] $50. Like, oh, well then you can’t lose, which is great ’cause you can’t lose because it’s free money. But now all of a sudden you have an account with them right now, all of a sudden they can communicate with you. Now all of a sudden they can figure out what your preferences are and then they start just kind of reeling in.

Todd: So, yeah,

Cathy: exactly. And so that everything that Todd just said, that’s what our kids need to know. Yeah. They found you. They’re pro you are a product. Just like I get targeted on Instagram, as soon as I like click on like a, or I click on like a pair of shoes and then all of a sudden that place like is coming after me.

Cathy: Yeah. In every platform. It’s the same with online betting. You place one bet and they’re gonna come after you. They, they are gonna target you. And so we can talk to our kids about that. Not in a be terrified way, but just a very informational, do you guys understand that this is how it works? And do you guys understand that when you place a bet, this is, I mean, some kids don’t even know it’s real money.

Cathy: You know, they’re so used to their, like, video games that they’re like, oh, I’m just gonna place this bet. And, [00:58:00] and this is, gambling is real money. And so, you know, it’s just a, it’s just another avenue. Well, if

Todd: nothing else, just watch the 60 minute thing. I’ll link it on in the show notes if you wanna watch it.

Todd: If you’re like me, you’ll ask your kid to watch it and they’ll say no.

Cathy: Um, and you know, like even, and again, your kid’s not gonna like Zen parenting anymore than 60 Minutes probably, but listening to this with them or just have, listen, you know what Todd does all the time, he’ll be like, girls, just listen to this part.

Cathy: You know, just listen to this one part and, you know, hear us talking about, you know, these stats,

Todd: and then listen to them. And then they’ll say why we’re wrong. Right? But now all of a sudden you have a discussion.

Cathy: Correct. It’s okay if they come back and say, I don’t know anybody who does it, or, don’t worry, I’m not gonna do it.

Cathy: At least you’re bringing it into the conversation because when they are, when they do see it in high school or in college or in their twenties, you know, they will be like, oh yeah, I heard about this. This is what I know about it. What, what I think. I always [00:59:00] hope to do, um, is you just wanna bring parents, you, everyone listening into the conversation so they can hear your voice too, because they’re getting inundated by people who don’t care about them.

Cathy: True. So let’s bring in a voice that does care about them and so they have that to play with. Um, are you going away? Yeah. Oh. ’cause I wanted to say one thing about the Grammys. Go ahead babe. I loved the Grammys.

Todd: Okay. That’s it. Just kidding. What else

Cathy: you got? I just wanted to say that part of the reason my daughters love to watch the Grammys with us is because it’s their opportunity to know more than us.

Cathy: Because Todd and I are very into movies and we’re very into tv. So when we watch Emmys and we watch Oscars and everything, sometimes Todd and I win. Most of the time, we win all the competitions of who’s gonna win. Right. But with the Grammys, we are a little slow. As far as music goes very slow, sweetie.

Cathy: We’re

Todd: trying, but we’re, I am very

Cathy: slow. I am. I think I’m less

Todd: slow than you. There was one guy on there, and I’m not gonna name his name, but I said, [01:00:00] I’m pretty sure that that’s not music. And I said, my God, I feel old right now. I

Cathy: know. And so we, I, I feel like I know names, but I don’t always know their songs or I haven’t heard it on the radio or sometimes I just look up the Billboard top 10 and I’m like, how do I not know these songs?

Cathy: Like it’s confusing to me. But last night the Grammys was like a Gen X Dream. Right? I was like, that’s Tracy Chapman. And she could not look more gorgeous and peaceful and beautiful. I mean, Tracy Chapman last night was incredible. And she’s saying with Luke Combs, if any of you saw it, they sang Fascar. And let’s not overlook the fact that she is a black queer woman and he is a male white country singer.

Cathy: Yeah. And they are singing this song together. And it was really beautiful. And you may say, well, what does that have to do with anything? The song is about belonging. The song is about, there’s like a human coming together [01:01:00] kind of experience. And, and I love that car that, that car, that, that song by Tracy Chapman more.

Cathy: So that’s just me being a Gen Xer. Um, because we all listened to that in high school. Like I think I was a junior when that song came out. Like, it’s such an important song for our generation. Um, so that was pretty amazing.

Todd: Take care

Cathy: again. It’s a bad version. Is that from last night? From last night? Okay. Listen to her voice. It was

Todd: incredible. It’s so bad though. I mean, I need to find a better one.

Cathy: So as you’re finding that, we also had Joni Mitchell singing, um, both Sides now, which totally made me cry with Brandy Carlisle, who kind of brought her back into the mix.

Cathy: You should read about that sometime. Brandi Carlile, that wasn’t the first time that she sang with Joni Mitchell, let’s just say that she, this summer, they, she was at a, a festival and this, they did the same thing. Annie Lennox was there and sang a Sinead O’Connor song that Prince wrote, [01:02:00] and Wendy and Lisa were with her from the Revolution.

Cathy: So if you know nothing that most people will understand what I just said, but Annie Lennox sang a Sinead O’Connor song that Prince wrote, and Wendy and Lisa from the Revolution were accompanying her. Boom. Pretty cool. We also had. Um, uh, well, I’ll just stop there because I loved everybody. I loved, did you see Billy Joel?

Cathy: We had Billy Joel with a new song and everyone was so excited and it was so good. And it was so Billy Joel. And we’re going to see him this summer with Stevie Nicks, by the way. Yes. Um, and then I loved SZA. I loved, obviously we were psyched. The Taylor Won album of the year. She is now the only person, only human to have won album of the year four times.

Cathy: Amazing. We had New and Olivia Rodrigo and Fantasia and um, just, I just loved it. I’m, I know I’m the same

Todd: people. Wonderful. Oh, Miley and Wonderful vehicle connection with our [01:03:00] kids. Oh,

Cathy: right. I just love it. And so last night was more fun. I, and, and my kids still love it. I only have one kid now at home watching, but I’m texting with my other girls, you know, ’cause they’re watching two and it was just, I felt like it was a Grammys where I felt just as included.

Cathy: Boom. Okay.

Todd: That’s it. All right. Um, so I want to just give a shout out to, uh, Jeremy Kraft, bald Head of Beauty Painting and remodeling. Throughout the Chicago Line area, 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800. We also have a partner that you heard in the mid roll, David Serrano, uh, giving a personal financial advisor. So thanks to David and, uh, join teams in for goodness sakes, along keep trucking.

Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.[01:04:00]