[00:00:00]
Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number. Are you ready for it soon? Are you ready? The
Cathy: number that I
Todd: love. Seven. Seven. Seven. It took us 14 years to get to 7 77.
Cathy: I like it.
Todd: Um, and I have a, I like it. I have a little bit of research on 77.
Todd: It’s considered an angel number. Yes. Duh. It’s thought to be a message from Angels or the universe signifying that you’re on the right path. Hey, aligned with your higher purpose or about to receive divine guidance. It’s often seen as a sign [00:01:00] of spiritual awakening and inner wisdom, and it’s also a lucky number.
Todd: Like on slot machines, it always says 777.
Cathy: Right. That’s the thing is like people, seven always has kind of a good vibe around it. I mean, it’s me saying it’s my favorite number. I think it’s a lot of people’s favorite number. Um, I don’t think that I’m special in that regard, but you’re right. Like 777 means you just won.
Cathy: In Vegas, big. And it also, but it’s funny to talk about angel numbers. I think last week when you told me this was going to be 777, I wanted to talk about angel numbers, but we prepared for something different. Um, and you know, I think a lot of people talk about them because people maybe have shared with them that they look for a 222 or they look for a 444 and people have their own reasons why sometimes it’s something personal about somebody, you know, specific like for me, my dad’s favorite number was 2 and 22, etc.
Cathy: So whenever it’s 2 22, [00:02:00] I’m always like, Hi, hi dad. 2 2 2. Um, but it also signifies something in the angel realm as well. So, you know, and I guess that is the angel realm. It’s all the angel realm. But anyway, so do you have any numbers that you like to see on a phone or on a, um, clock? Um,
Todd: whenever we play, uh, video poker, Or whenever I play poker with my friends, which is like, what, once every five years, I always like it when deuces are wild.
Todd: Okay. Um, deuces come to me more often than others, and that’s probably not true, but it sure feels that way. But sweetie, 777 designates a winner.
Cathy: Mikey, that’ll do. Mikey’s the big winner. Mikey wins. Mikey wins. Mikey
Todd: wins.
Cathy: Um, so can I just tell you really quick? I know you have a lot of things. I have a lot of things, but you go ahead.
Cathy: Okay, 2 2 2 is a trust number. 3 3 3 means tap into your talents. Now everybody, I’m giving you the very general basic. You gotta read about your own numbers. 4 4 4 is about finding stability. 5 5 5 is a signal that a [00:03:00] major life change will happen soon. That’s so funny because we saw all those fives this morning.
Cathy: I actually put it on our story. Um, 6 6 6, it’s actually, you know, we tend to not like it because of Damien, but in numerology, it’s a number to go easy on yourself. So even Damien needed to go easy on himself. That’s why it was on his skull, the 6 6 6. Go easy on yourself. You’re the, you’re from the devil. Um, and then 7 7 7.
Cathy: That means good things are coming your way. The lucky number helps you with finances. Todd, you’ll be happy about that. And a sign that you should break out of your comfort zone. And then 888, it’s a connection to the spiritual universe. Which one was go easy on me? 666.
So go easy on me.
Todd: She can hit those notes.
Todd: She sure
Cathy: can.
Todd: And didn’t she have like throat issues?
Cathy: She
Todd: did. Surgery?
Cathy: I think she had the nodules like [00:04:00] singers tend to get.
Todd: Um, I read on a newsletter thing this morning and the title was schools are cracking down on student phone use. Will it help? Did you read that? I don’t know if it was on my newsletter or yours.
Cathy: I’ve read, I’ve heard podcasts about it. I know that it’s quite the issue. Jonathan Haidt, in his book about anxiety that came out this year, um, that’s one of his suggestions.
Todd: So, um, uh, Manisha, your friend, our friend, my friend said this a few years ago, like in 20 years, the fact that we’re, we’re going to laugh at the fact that we all used to buy plastic water bottles and threw them out.
Right.
Todd: Like, tens of millions, probably, that we have as a society have done that. And I think she’s right. I think plastic water bottles will go by the wayside. And I hope, and I think I’m wrong. That we’re going to look back in between the years of 2015 and 2030 that, that we invited our kids to have their phones at school that [00:05:00] we’ll be like, what were we thinking?
Todd: And I don’t think I’m right. I think phones are here to stay, but I just want to honor, and I feel like an old man here and that’s fine. The phone is such a seductive device. I can only imagine what it’s like for teachers to try to run a classroom. And it just makes so much sense. Like turn it. Yeah. And, and is, and I haven’t researched this.
Todd: I haven’t studied it. I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about, but is the reason that we’re not doing that is because parents want to get ahold of their kids during the day? Like, or is it because who’s in charge here? The students, the teachers, the administrators, or the parents?
Cathy: I think there’s been pushback from many different angles.
Cathy: One of the most common. pushbacks is from parents saying that, you know, I need to pick up my kid or if something happens, I need to be able to contact them quickly. Obviously, there’s a quick retort for that, which is called the office or, um, but [00:06:00] also, you know, for example, uh, you know, if you have a kid who has school anxiety or social anxiety or some, or struggling with something, sometimes that’s a way to stay connected.
Cathy: Um, and so they can continue to go through school and, and connect with their parent. And again, this is like a small percentage, but I think sometimes these are the voices that
Todd: are heard. Like that’s the opposing argument. And
Cathy: it, and it is also shifting something that we got really, uh, Comfortable with so whenever you’re gonna make a big change like that.
Cathy: It’s hard to make it’s hard to roll that back fine Fair enough. I just and I’m not saying I’m against it. I just I’m
Todd: 100 percent for it.
Cathy: Yeah, I I get it Mm
Todd: hmm. Okay moving on some fun news that I heard. Oh
Cathy: good
Todd: Did you know that Toy Story 5 is gonna be out in the summer of 2026?
No,
Todd: I just read this It’ll be toys versus tech in the summer of 2026 featuring Woody buzz and the rest of the crew You Director Andrew Stanton said.
Cathy: Didn’t [00:07:00] we already do that in the Christmas version?
Todd: I feel like Toy Story 3 was the best ending of a series, one of the best endings of a series ever. Toy Story 4, they tried to do it, but it wasn’t as good. It’s
Cathy: okay.
Todd: Now who knows what’s going to happen to Toy Story 5.
Cathy: Well, and, and the only, and again, it’s going to be amazing because it’s Pixar and I have no doubt.
Cathy: So I say go do it. But I just remember the Christmas, 30 minute Christmas special that we always watch that the girls still love, even though they’re now adults. is where, remember, um, Bonnie and her friend are playing video games the whole time, and the, like, the other toys don’t even know that they’re toys, they think they’re still at war, and they’re, and they fight with, The um, I want the dinosaur, um, I can’t remember the actress who, you know, shares her or does her voice.
Cathy: But anyway, we always make a joke about it because at the end, he’s like, he calls them the Bonet [00:08:00] tribe because it’s Bonnie’s toys, so Bonnie on the back of their feet. So I, I just feel like that was kind of the going up again, why toys are fun versus tech, but I’m sure it’s going to be much deeper than that.
Cathy: It’ll be interesting. Do you think it’ll be Bonnie? Bonnie? Uh,
Todd: let’s pretend one of us don’t know who Bonnie
Cathy: is. Bonnie is who Andy gave the toys to. Oh, the little girl. Yeah. Oh. The Bonet tribe. Yeah, I hope so. Okay. I hope so.
Todd: She’s a little sweetheart. Yeah. She’s
Cathy: now But she’s gonna be what? She’s gonna
Todd: be in
Cathy: her teenage years.
Cathy: Yeah, so it’s gonna be a little like Jessie’s, uh
Todd: You
Cathy: know, you remember Jessie’s, uh, girl, and she left her.
Todd: I know.
Cathy: Um,
Todd: Moana 2 is coming out Thanksgiving. The gladiator thing, is that coming out?
Cathy: So gladiator and, um, Wicked are coming out for Thanksgiving. And Moana 2. And Moana 2. But, I do love Moana, I’m not trying to like sideline Moana, but that’s, well it’s a little third in the culture, meaning like, they’re trying to make Gladiator 2 and Wicked a tradition.
Cathy: Uh, [00:09:00] Barbenheimer thing, you know what I mean? Like, go see both. And I think Moana could get lost in that process, but maybe not. I mean, Wicked and kids are going to go see Moana, period. Some kids are also going to see Wicked if they, if they know the music and if they’ve been to the show, the Broadway show or whatever.
Cathy: I took the girls to Wicked when they were really, really young. And then we’ve been four times since. So my family’s kind of addicted to that Broadway show. I think I’ve been five times. Cause I went before I took the girls. I went with my niece. And you must
Todd: really like it.
Cathy: I do. It’s my favorite Broadway show of all time.
Cathy: And I’m so excited to see it on screen. More than Grease, sweetie. For sure. Cause Grease on Broadway, whatever. Grease the movie is great. But to have a Broadway show, it’s the music, you know? We love the music from that show.
Todd: I love, uh, I love Defying Gravity. [00:10:00] Sure.
But someone said there’s so, some things I cannot change, but too, too long I’ve been a It’s
Todd: one of those songs that’s hard to turn off.
Todd: Well, it’s
all going to be coming at much too high a cost. Right? Cynthia Erivo is
Cathy: going to be singing. I mean, uh, Dina is amazing and that’s the voice in my head because that’s the Broadway version. Yeah. Um, but it’s going to be pretty amazing. I also, there was, it was leaked, Ariana Grande’s version of Popular was leaked, um, and so they’re putting it up against Kristen Chenoweth’s version, um, and she basically, I mean, and again, for good reason.
Cathy: I’m not saying she’s copying her, but she modeled it after her, you know, it’s the same kind of inflections. But
Todd: April don’t fix it. Right?
Yeah.
Todd: Um, okay. So you wrote a sub stack last Friday. Yes. It’s called our girls want to feel inspired and it [00:11:00] was, uh, one of a series of things that you’re going to do every month.
Todd: Is that the deal?
Cathy: So, my book comes out in January. I have this sub stack. I write for it every week. Once a month, I am going to dedicate one of my sub stacks to what I’m talking about in my book, Restoring Our Girls. A big part of Restoring Our Girls, besides giving kind of an overview of how to have meaningful and real conversations with our daughters, is also about what our girls wish we knew.
Cathy: There’s a lot that we don’t understand that our girls wish we knew.
Yeah.
Cathy: Is that a good sentence? There’s a lot that we don’t understand. Like, there’s a lot of things that Like my introduction is called, will you tell my parents this because of the amount of times that girls will tell me a long story and they’ll say, will you just tell my parents this because they’re so worried about either disappointing their parents or having being so sad that their parents don’t get it or don’t take their side or just don’t.
Cathy: relate to whatever [00:12:00] they’re telling me in the same way. And they don’t want the disappointment. They don’t want to be criticized and they want to have a good relationship with their parents, but they’re very worried about that breaking down. Depending on whatever they want to say. And what I know girls will do, and this is probably true for all genders, is they want to salvage that relationship.
Cathy: Girls don’t want to disconnect from their parents. They don’t. But if they find that they’re very different from their parents or that they don’t feel connected to their parents, they’ll do something just to salvage it. So they’ll like shut down, maybe not talk as much, just kind of have a surface y relationship.
Cathy: Probably because there’s
Todd: this primal way as if I can’t connect with them authentically. Right. Right. Then I need to stay connected with them because they’re my caregivers, providers, correct? A lot. So instead I’m going to. Put myself, my authenticity, my own needs aside just to stay connected to this person.
Cathy: I’m going to like kind of pat that down when I’m at home. I’m going to kind of hide that, kind of be like what they would call typical or normal at home. [00:13:00] But then when I’m with my friends, I’m a very different way. When I’m at school, I’m a very different way. They don’t share their culture. Real selves and then their parents get confused about why they make the choices they do or whatever.
Cathy: There’s not an ongoing dialogue like the thing that holds this book together. It’s not just about let’s look at what’s plaguing our girls these days. I have that in the book. There’s research around their mental health and. How it’s been consistently going down, um, you know, since way before the pandemic.
Cathy: So there’s a lot about that, but a lot of it is connected to the inability for parents to have real and meaningful conversations with their kids. So their kids are left, basically, they feel like they’re on their own. You know, mulling through all the amount, the crazy amount of information that they’re given in a day through their, you know, we were just talking about phones, through their phones, also what they’re experiencing at school, what they’re seeing in the world, and they don’t have anyone to talk about it with, or they only have [00:14:00] their peers, which is great.
Cathy: Their peers are amazing, but there’s not a lot of people to talk Or there’s not a lot of wisdom there because they haven’t lived life long enough, right? And if you, you know, for parents to understand that their role is not just to like impose rules and drive their kids around, but it’s actually to have a relationship with their kids.
Cathy: So their kids have someone to talk to and you don’t have to agree with everything your girls are saying. You don’t have to be like, yes, yes, yes. What you just need to do is understand and be curious and ask questions. That’s how you stay connected.
Todd: Um, can I quote you back to you? Sure. Right now, you say in your sub stack, many young girls are telling me they feel disconnected.
Todd: They, they say No, they, they say they’re feeling a disconnect. They’re feeling a disconnect. Because I
Cathy: was talking about the fact that their parents, they’re not, parents are not practicing what they preach. They
Todd: say they’re told to be honest, respectful, and resilient, but they see a different story in the behavior of the adults around them.
Todd: It feels like disheartening hypocrisy, leading them to question the importance of these virtues and wonder if [00:15:00] growing up means abandoning what they’re taught to believe. And then you say cue Alison’s comments. So
when you grow up, your heart dies.
Todd: Who cares?
Todd: And why’d you put that one in there?
Cathy: Well, just because it’s just, you know, it’s just a How do I want to say it? It’s kind of a known meme or a known, um, you know, quote that comes from a movie that all generations watch. And it’s basically this commentary on when we get older, we start to not pay attention and not care.
Cathy: Now, is that universally true? No, but there is this piece of telling young people how to be. And how to think and what they should do, but then not practicing that ourselves. You and I have been talking about this for 14 years on Zen Parenting. Now, the thing I want to make clear, and I say this in the following paragraph, I think, is girls are not saying, my parent can’t make mistakes, and my parent needs to be perfect.
Cathy: Like, they of all people understand [00:16:00] the emotional lives of human beings, and they know that their parents will have a bad day, or feel overwhelmed. They get it. It’s just this Inability to care about something or to be excited because the title of my sub stack is our girls want to be inspired and they see their parents lives as sometimes looking miserable and they’re like, what’s the why am I growing up?
Cathy: Like, what am I growing up to? And so when we talk about like family culture, sometimes family culture doesn’t look appealing. to this generation. They’re like, they’re concerned about having children. I have more girls now who are, you know, anywhere between 15 and 25 saying they’re not sure they’re going to have kids.
Cathy: I think that’s very common in generations, but I think it’s a little higher than usual. A lot of that is about climate change. A lot of that is about their own mental health and they’re not sure they could do it. You know, handle taking care of a kid and then part of it is they don’t see a lot of joy in their parents lives.[00:17:00]
Cathy: They’re like, I don’t want to do that. And it doesn’t mean we need to be filled with joy every single day. And you know, you know, we don’t, it doesn’t need to be sunshine and rainbows. What it is, is talking to our girls about what inspires us, talking to our girls about, you know, how we’re multidimensional too.
Cathy: And that sometimes, you know, we do feel stressed, but then here’s how we take care of ourselves. This only come, we. If we don’t have conversations with our girls, they only see the surface level. They only see us on the surface. So to them, it looks not great. And it’s got nothing to do with appearances.
Cathy: It’s not how we look. It’s not about aging. It’s none of that stuff. It’s just, Finding meaning in life. And this is a hard thing for anybody to share with someone they love to say, wow, you’re not inspiring me. That’s, that’s a hard, I don’t know if people say that to each other.
Todd: Well, and it’s, you know, comes down to role modeling, which is something you and I have talked about forever.
Todd: You, you throw a [00:18:00] few ideas in there, you know, talk about the upcoming election and I’m going to talk about Tim Walz in a second here. Right. Um, talk about the Olympics, like just share a common interest and be inspired and let your kids see that you’re inspired by something bigger than us.
Cathy: And talk about other people’s inspiration.
Cathy: Talk about inspiration as a thing. Talk about meaning. Talk about learning and growing and the importance of, you know, because what a lot of our girls see is just depleted people. And while understandably why we’re depleted sometimes, we’re raising a bunch of kids, we’re working hard, we’re, you know, dealing with all the issues that we’re dealing with government, like, there’s reasons why we feel depleted.
Cathy: As parents, part of our, our, I don’t know what word, I don’t like to use the word work, but part of our responsibility is to have a relationship with our children so we can share with them lots of different aspects of ourselves. What does inspire us? And if we have zero things that inspire us, then I’m going to pull it away from [00:19:00] parenting for a second.
Cathy: I’m just going to say to that person, you deserve to have things that inspire you. You deserve, like, forget about parenting for a second. You should figure out things that make you happy. Like I was, we’re not going to talk about this because I know you have so many other things, but I’m I told Todd about 30 minutes ago, I said, you know what I want to talk about today?
Cathy: I want to talk about, um, small, happy things, like small things that make me happy. Like today, Todd and I went to yoga at 6am as we were just talking about. And when we got to, um, the club, the clock, you know, it has this big digital clock and it was 555. And 55 seconds. So there was all these fives. And Todd and I got really like excited for a second.
Cathy: It’s dumb. It’s not a big deal. It’s a small happy thing.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Like what, are you noticing those things or are you just moving from thing to thing trying to, you know, check things off your list?
Todd: Well, and the small happy things are the big things and we could spend some time on, on this real quick and then we’ll get to.
Cathy: We can spend some time on small happy things. Yeah. Okay.
Todd: [00:20:00] Well, afterwards we’ll talk about. Okay. Toxic versus tonic masculinity and some articles that I read in the last week, uh, from John Duffy and some Washington Post article.
Cathy: Great. So I’m going to read you a few things that are small happy things and I just want you to tell me if these are things that make you happy and also to maybe riff off of them and tell me what does make you happy.
Cathy: Okay. Okay. Small happy things. Listening to music.
Todd: Now, I don’t think I derive as much from happiness from that as the average person.
Cathy: Because you listen to depressing music.
Todd: Uh, it’s not that it’s just, I, I’m more, uh, I default to podcasts, informational. And then I have some friends that are like, I just listen to music all day and I’m just not one of those guys.
Todd: So.
Cathy: And I’m in the middle, but I do get a lot of joy out of listening to music. And especially if I’m alone in my car. Okay. Um, doing something forever for others. Do you like to do things for other people? Does that make you happy? Acts of service. That’s my love life. I know
Todd: that for sure. Hugs. I love hugs, and they’re undervalued and underdone [00:21:00] in our society with, you know, friends, with buddies, with intimate partners, with kids.
Todd: Hugs are awesome.
Cathy: Well, and I will say, uh, you know, again, going back to, you know, restoring our girls. Like, your girls, no matter their age, need hugs. And if you can keep, like, especially when they’re 12 and 13 and they’re, they’re starting to go through puberty and they want a little more space, obviously give them space.
Cathy: I’m not saying, you know, but if you can normalize it, if you can start to give them hugs in ways that they’re comfortable and chain and keep the hugs going, because if you stop and then you want to give them a hug one day when they’re 16, but it’s been four years. Since you’ve been hugging them, then it’s weird.
Cathy: It’s uncomfortable.
Todd: Well, and I’ll sprinkle in that that’s, it’s just important to do that to our sons.
Cathy: It’s, oh my God, 100%. And what I want you to do, Todd, whenever I’m talking about my book, because, you know, I’m going to be talking about girls, please do that. Like, I don’t want to be overly gender specific.
Cathy: I think that a lot of these things are universal, but I just can only talk about what I [00:22:00] know really well.
Todd: And I’ll just say that I think that, uh, women are conditioned. Uh, to have physical affection, they’re more open to physical affection from From friends, from parents, from whatever, siblings, whereas guy culture, that’s not cool at all.
Todd: You know, we do the thing where we like, I don’t know, we do some like fist bump thing and then we bring our right arm in and like our right shoulders bump each other. So
Cathy: we don’t, or you guys bring in for a hug but your hand goes over your heart so you guys don’t really connect at the heart.
Yeah.
Cathy: Like it, it, I don’t know if you guys can see what I’m doing because this is audio, but literally guys put a hand over their heart like a fist.
Cathy: Yeah. And then hug. Yeah. So it keeps them from touching chests. It’s like a really, and I don’t think it’s on purpose, I think it’s been learned. I think it’s like a way, it’s a vulnerability thing. Yeah,
Todd: it’s a vulnerability thing. For sure. Um,
Cathy: what about, um, I know your answer to this, sleeping in clean sheets.
Todd: Yeah, overrated.
Cathy: Not overrated to me. That makes [00:23:00] me very happy.
Todd: So, but clean is such an interesting term.
Cathy: Fresh sheets. Fresh legs. Well,
Todd: okay. So, before we get into fresh legs, um, if you wash the sheets three days ago, are they fresh?
Cathy: Yeah, but not, I’m talking about like I’ve just washed them, which I love to do.
Cathy: I
Todd: can’t tell.
Cathy: I know, and that’s so sad because I do not have a, it’s, they smell good and they’re soft. Yeah. And they’re fluffy. It’s not
Todd: on my radar.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: Yeah. Well,
Cathy: but they are on your reader because I tell you.
Todd: Yeah, that’s the only reason they are. I will say I want the sheets. Right. But if you just, if you make the bed that day and, uh, I just, I don’t notice unless there’s something super obvious and the smell and the fluffiness are not obvious to me.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: Sorry, babe.
Cathy: That’s okay. I really don’t take offense, but it’s, I love it. Um, laughing really hard.
Todd: Uh, totally underrated, and I don’t think I do it enough, and I judge myself for not doing it more.
Cathy: Well, that, um, you laugh. You’re a good laugher. I think you have a, you have a, [00:24:00] a comment in your brain from your dad that makes you rethinking.
Cathy: Block,
Todd: block. Yeah, blocks. Like, not, not noticing when I laugh really hard.
Cathy: Yes, because you laugh really hard and you do this clap thing when you laugh. I clap it up. You clap it up. Um, okay. Coffee. That, that makes me so happy. I don’t understand the whole fascination with coffee. Well, this one is totally you.
Cathy: Calling someone you care about. You’re good at calling people. Oh
Todd: yeah. I love, uh, I love, uh, in real time conversation.
Cathy: Yeah. Like Todd will just, we’ll just be sitting there. He’ll just call someone, FaceTime them even. Yeah.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: He sneaks up. I do
Todd: that a lot with our family, with our nieces.
Cathy: Yeah. And your friends from school.
Cathy: You’ll be like, Oh, I called so and so today. You’re just good about that. Having time to yourself.
Todd: Yeah. That’s totally overrated for me too. For me.
Cathy: Yeah. I love time to myself.
Todd: My quick story is I thought there was something wrong with me because I have all these examples of how I’ve had opportunities to be alone.
Todd: Like at college, I had an opportunity to have my own [00:25:00] bedroom and I didn’t want that. And that’s at a time when everybody wanted their own bedroom. And I just moved into my adulthood and I’m like, well, I need to go camping by myself. So I went camping by myself. And I didn’t listen to the radio. I didn’t bring a book.
Todd: I literally just spent time alone with my thoughts and the environment. And I think I was there two days, one night, and I slept most of the time I cooked myself some food. And it, for me, I was like, I could have done so many other things other than that, that that was a waste of my time. Now, if I would be disciplined and do it for four or five days, I might have some type of breakthrough.
Todd: Like, oh my God, I love being by myself, but because I limited to like 36 hours, I’m just like, that was stupid.
Yeah. Yeah.
Todd: Whereas some people, like I have a buddy, uh, my friend Mike, who, who lives in Idaho, he’ll go. Yeah. For ten days, he’ll go backpacking by himself.
Cathy: You know, it doesn’t surprise me that, and again, [00:26:00] he may have been this way before, but he’s a doctor, and he needs to help people all the time, and I feel similarly, um, being a parent, being a social worker, that I like to get away from people, because if I’m away from people, I don’t have to help anybody, and then I can kind of feel my own body and think about my own thoughts, because otherwise my thoughts are on other people all the time.
Cathy: And, and not to say, because you’re in customer service and you’re, you know, you have men living and you’re a salesman, so I’m not saying you don’t care about people, but I don’t think you feel as beholden to other people.
Todd: No, I, you know, when I’m traveling, I’m by myself.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Most of the time.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: So I do get time by myself, but it’s almost like forced time by myself.
Cathy: Right, and you don’t, and you’re more extroverted, so I’m only going to do three more so we can move on. Um, reading a good book. That’s more me.
Todd: Uh, that’s definitely more you. I like to listen to books. I went swimming last night and I’m listening to a book on attachment theory and it’s kind of boring.
Todd: Quite, quite honestly. I was hoping. But you just want to learn about it. I just, I, every, I just [00:27:00] hear so much about it and I’ve never read anything about it. So I’m like, all right, I’m just going to listen. I’m just, so I’m not all the way through. So I’m pre judging. So what’s your attachment? Uh, I think I’m more of, I would love to say I’m securely attached, but it’s probably more avoid.
Um.
Todd: And would you say you’re probably more, um, anxious or what’s it called? Um. What’s the new word? Ambivalent? What was the word that you just came up with?
Cathy: Well, I didn’t come up with it. People use ambivalent more than they use anxious. Now, I think that I, and this is maybe a story I told myself, but something I, you know, cause I’ve obviously talked about it when I was doing my own therapy, is that I feel like I had a secure attachment as a child.
Cathy: I don’t have a lot of, um, but I feel like my attachment changed a little bit as I got older, which is something that you and I have discussed about when does attachment theory kind of. Come to a halt. Like, when is it, you know, is it only, is it only babyhood? Because we don’t remember that, right?
Todd: Before we have [00:28:00] memory.
Cathy: And I’m sure people who are experts on attachment theory could tell me, fill me in, but when I talk to my students about it, we stay on the most general level. So I haven’t, you know, dug really deep into it.
Todd: So can I just quickly insert my opinion, uh, my very early opinion on attachment theory? I would love to say that.
Todd: Whatever, I’m securely attached. So just for everybody to know, as I’m reading it in my book, there’s, you’re either securely attached, you have anxious attachment, you have avoidance attachment, and then you have disorganized, which is, as I understand it, a blend of both. And I just think all human beings are all four of them, but Probably are more in the disorganized one than anything else because I could, you know, anxious is when there’s maybe less boundaries and more anxiety with relationships.
Todd: Avoidant means you’re completely closed off and walled off and less trusting, less trusting. And I could, there’s parts of me And
Cathy: I think that’s why I feel like my circuitry initially was very [00:29:00] secure, is that I trust people very quickly. And I don’t mean, um, in a, um, unthoughtful way. I mean, like, I When I talk to people, I’m like, Oh, this person’s a good person.
Cathy: Like, I don’t feel that. Your, your default. My default is this person’s a good person. Until there’s
Todd: evidence to say otherwise.
Cathy: So that’s kind of why it’s confusing because I know I do have some, you know, anxious tendencies, but I’m not quite sure that came from my attachment. I think that came a little later.
Cathy: Um, because I feel when people are around, obviously I have the same instincts everybody else does. I can kind of feel when someone’s unsafe. And so it’s not like a delusional everybody’s safe. It’s more like when I’m talking to someone, I can hear, it’s a weird thing to say, I can hear their goodness, but I know they’re trying.
Cathy: Like even when they’re doing, you know, like we were just talking about, uh, you know, IFS, interfraternal, interfraternal. That’s, that’s the Greek system. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, children in college. Um, IFS is, um, [00:30:00] internal, internal family systems. Thank you. And we were just talking about all the parts in internal family systems, which is like, we all have, you know, all these different parts.
Cathy: And I, I can’t remember where I was going with that. What did I say right before?
Todd: Let’s rewind the
Cathy: clock. Let’s rewind. No, we’d have to rewind my brain. Um. Um. I can’t remember. Sweetie,
Todd: you lost it.
Cathy: I did, but it was something to the effect of. It was something very good. It was. I know. It’s so, it’s such a bummer that I lost it.
Cathy: But it was, you know, the ability to trust people is, is a, is natural to me. But then I’ve had to learn how to. Like, one of the things that we, you know, we brought up a while ago is that sometimes I have to remind myself that, no, what that person just did is mean, Kathy. Like, sometimes I, I override that I think everyone’s being good when, yeah, there’s evidence that someone’s being mean, and I have to be like, I have a voice now for a lot of work.
Cathy: Well, and I [00:31:00] think we
Todd: all have a trusting one inside of us, and we also have a very cynical one inside of us, and the question is, Who are you going to pay attention to?
Cathy: Yes.
Todd: And then, and it’s not like, well, let’s just not pay attention to the cynic because the cynic is there to protect us, help us, keep us safe.
Todd: And would you call it cynical? Well, I’m just making up a word that would be, yeah, I think that that guy is not who he presents himself to be. So I’m being cynical about his nature.
Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. And it works for this conversation. It’s just, I’m always looking because I’m a word person. I’m always looking for a word that kind of fits a little more, you know, untrustworthy.
Cathy: Yeah. The one
Todd: who doesn’t trust.
Cathy: Or the one who is, there’s like a, in reality, like this hurts, therefore that’s mean. Instead of, oh, well, they’re just doing their best, which is a protective. Mechanism of not being disappointed by people’s behavior. So the bottom line is to just wrap all this conversation up.
Cathy: There’s a lot of different theories out there about how we [00:32:00] develop as human beings. And we don’t need to choose one. They all overlap each other. And so we just have to recognize what works when. And so we can talk about our attachment, but our attachment isn’t everything. There’s so many other facets to why we became who we are.
Cathy: Okay. So you move on to, I mean, I’ve got so many more, but I feel like you gave me my little moment. Very
Todd: good. Um, so there’s some Washington Post article that my friend sent to me, and it was about a term that I’ve never heard before called tonic masculinity. Never heard of it. If you listen to the show, you know that there’s a lot of people in my world that get offended of the term toxic masculinity.
Todd: I don’t. I think it’s a useful thought. But I also know that it, if you’re trying to communicate with somebody and they’re offended the minute that you even bring up what you label it, that maybe I should come up with a different label. But, um, Um, tonic, so, and it’s through the lens of Tim Walz, who is now the vice presidential candidate with [00:33:00] Kamala Harris, and he is kind of like the, whatever, the midwestern dad, right?
Todd: And he’s a guy who’s going to help you fix your car, and he’s a guy who’s going to, um, you know, snowblow your walkway, and do certain things. And
Cathy: remind you to have a good day.
Todd: And remind you to have a good day. He’s a coach, he’s a teacher, um, you know, and even there, like, coach, I guess, I would be, um, considered.
Todd: Masculine. Uh, but teacher is definitely in the, you know, there’s more women teachers out there than men teachers, so he embodies kind of a different style of masculinity. I think when people think of, uh, toxic masculinity, they think of the exaggerated version of stoicism and just being impenetrable and, uh, having no feelings and things like that.
Todd: And Tim is kind of this soft, sweet. But also,
Cathy: conscientious person.
Todd: Conscious, but also strong. Like, there’s nothing weak about how he presents. And wise. Uh, because I think of like alpha males [00:34:00] and beta males. And, you know, um, alpha males I would consider more in the, version of classic, classic stoic masculinity and beta males are the more softer things and I’m striving to be more beta.
Todd: I think I want to, and I think I’m more striving to be more tonic. Yeah. I
Cathy: would say it fits tonic fits you very well. And I want to say something about If we haven’t said it a million times before, the thing about toxic masculinity defends people, and so we’re not going to use it, but the reason that I didn’t have issue with it initially was because we’re not talking about people, we’re talking about a type of behavior.
Cathy: Right, that could be for men or women, boys or girls. Toxic behavior, and so there is a form of masculinity that becomes toxic, but it’s not you are a toxic person necessarily, it’s just this behavior. Yes. But, to your point, We, that, why stop a conversation? Let’s keep having a conversation, so let’s find another word.
Cathy: So I, you know, you told me about this, [00:35:00] you said Sean told you about this and then I started reading about it. I saw a few articles starting in the beginning of August. Monica Hess from I think the Washington Post wrote something, but I think somebody found it either on threads or Twitter or something.
Cathy: Someone else said it. Do you remember who originated? I have no idea. So that sucks because someone was really wise and came up with this and I’d love to give them credit. Yeah. Yeah. But what I love about it is, you know, like what is tonic, right? Tonic is like energizing and vibrant. Like that’s if you look up the definition of the word, a tonic is like, you know, it, it, It opens things up, it enlivens us, and so a tonic masculinity is like, I picture it like shedding light on everything where it’s like, you can have all these traits.
Cathy: You don’t have to give up any of these traits that we may consider gender, you know, specific. Like you can, you know, work on your car and make sure you’re the airport dad and you know, you know, use hammers and nails and do all the [00:36:00] things that, you know, be a football coach, But you can be a kind human being at the same time, like this separation that we’ve had from I’m going to be tough and mean.
Yeah.
Cathy: There’s, it’s so, it’s such a disconnect from human
Todd: behavior. Well, it’s funny, whenever I think of tonic, I think of gin and tonic. So I, like, but tonic does have, I used to think of, Uh, tonic as being like carbonated water, but it’s not, it actually has quite a flavor to it. Yeah. Tonic does. Um, but I want to read just, uh, two paragraphs from Duffy’s sub stack from last week.
Todd: John Duffy, he’s a good friend. He says, I sat across from a young, sad teenage boy yesterday who highlighted the fact that he’s never known a political landscape in which ugliness and vitriol were not front and center. Trump has been a part of every election he remembers. Mm hmm. Now consider Walls for a moment.
Todd: He embodies, by most every account I’ve heard of or read, the antithesis of toxic masculinity. He’s a dude’s dude for sure. Former military, can fix the car, dad style, coached football, taught high [00:37:00] school, family guy, shamelessly proud, fun dad. He’s apparently a damn good shot. Uh, I assume he’s talking about shooting.
Todd: He’s a hunter. Uh, and he’s kind and compassionate and humane at the same time. This guy is the invitation to kindness and civility. Our young, kind. Boys need. Amen. We could do worse than Tim Walz as our new poster man for masculinity, but right now our girls are stronger, more resilient, and adaptable.
Todd: Instead, it’s our boys and young men I’m worried about. And so John, uh, counsels young men and women. They are disengaged, bitter, and disheartened. As a result, they are opting out of engagement in their lives in alarming numbers. I may be hopelessly optimistic here, but I want that joy and inclusion to become part of that new definition of masculinity more along the lines of Waltz.
Todd: Um, an overly kind man, a former high school teacher, state winning football coach, and head of school’s gay straight alliance. That’s so wonderful. I
Cathy: love it. It is. I love [00:38:00] everything that he said. And it’s true. You know, like it’s the, the, um, juxtaposition. Is that the right word? Yeah. Like the, you know, the difference between these two men and demonstrating strength and, you know, there’s such a, when, when there’s a masculinity that’s about winning all the time and about being the best and being king of the hill and having everything and being untouchable.
Cathy: It’s so unreal and it’s so insecure. And again, I often, you know, when I see people, not, not just people walking around, but like, you know, famous people or whatever. And I hear them speak. I’ll often say to Todd, that’s so transparent, like what they say. And I think a lot of people feel this way. I don’t think this is a therapist thing, but when someone is like going on and on about why they’re the best, they obviously don’t think they are because the people who know they’re good They tend to not share that as much because they already know it.
Cathy: There, there’s an internal way of [00:39:00] understanding your depth and your strength. And then there’s an external way of saying it so people, you’re getting external reinforcement. You say it so other people, you’re trying to convince people. And you also need to hear it from other people to believe it. Yeah. So it’s internal versus external and, Tim Walz is a, um, regardless of your politics, is a good man.
Cathy: And again, you may say, but he said this one thing once and he did this one thing. Yes, because he’s a human being and we’re not even talking about policy. We’re just talking about how he shows up in the world. He shows up in the world as somebody who has 24 years, decided to come home and, You know, be a teacher and be a coach and start the Gay Straight Alliance with, because he knew that, that having a football coach lead something like that would send a message and then kids in his school said they felt safe in his school, and then he became a politician and people in Congress who worked with him, both sides of the aisle said he’s a good man, like, [00:40:00] It’s the kind of strength that doesn’t come from having a lot of money.
Cathy: The man doesn’t even have stocks. He has a pension. Did you know that?
Yeah.
Cathy: Like, it’s not about demonstrating your worth through your bank account. It’s about just going out there and taking care of people, having good character.
Todd: So I want to stay on this topic, but just mention one other thing that I just read.
Todd: So Richard Reeves is the guy who wrote the book called A Boys and Men, and he seems to be the predominant. Spokesperson to help our young men grow into healthy human beings. I’m pretty sure he has a lot of grant money at his disposal. He started this big foundation. He’s this English guy. He wrote a really important book a few years ago, which I’m a big fan of.
Todd: Uh, and he just said, uh, in the email that I get from him, he says, I’ve seen some online criticism that the world banks. New gender strategy lacks. So first of all, World Bank. World Bank is the bank of the world and I think they have a lot of money. The
Cathy: World Bank is the [00:41:00] bank of the world. They have
Todd: a lot of money and they, uh, have, they created this report called the New Gender Strategy.
Todd: Okay. And in that, um, it’s a long document that has a lot of different things. And there’s some male advocates who say that it doesn’t talk nearly about the plight of boys.
Cathy: Okay. It doesn’t talk nearly enough about the plight? Enough about it. It’s all
Todd: about women. Okay. And he says, Uh, so this is what he says, that this World Bank’s new gender strategy lacks enough attention to the gender gaps impacting boys and men.
Todd: That’s true, but it’s all relative and there are some real signs of progress. So I just want to highlight the progress of what’s in this report. Because he’s basically saying, guys, let’s take the win. Okay. Yeah. Because I’m kind of lost of the point you’re trying to make. So there was a document that came out like 2016 about gender strategy and it was all about women.
Todd: Okay, okay. Eight years later, they come out with another one, and it’s mostly about women. But now it’s saying [00:42:00] that the strategy acknowledges the centrality of investing in women and girls while recognizing the disadvantages facing men and boys. And the vulnerabilities arising from the intersection of gender with poverty.
Todd: Poverty, ethnicity, disability, so on and so forth. Uh, in some contexts, men and boys are worse off. Rapid economic transformations have translated to job losses in sectors such as manufacturing, mining, so on and so forth. I just like the fact that this leader is saying Maybe if he would have written it, it would have had more about men and boys, but let’s just take this win.
Todd: We’re moving in the right direction. So instead of dividing us, like, there’s not enough stuff about men and boys, like who’s saying that, who’s saying there’s not enough stuff about men and boys, men and boys. Oh, so there has been online criticism. Online criticism report is saying this is way too much.
Todd: Focused on the women.
Cathy: Right.
Todd: And the girls. Right. And he’s saying, guys, let’s just chill out [00:43:00] and say, and notice that this report is moving in the right direction.
Cathy: Okay, so I have kind of a, like, I’ll try and keep this under a minute. Sure. But I think this is kind of the struggle we had last week when we were having this discussion about male menopause.
Cathy: Sure. Okay. It is a real thing. And I know you had Jed Diamond did his, his course or whatever, his class with you guys, and you were like, it was really interesting. So there’s no denial of that. There, that’s, I’m glad that you guys have that. At the same time, women are just starting to become more knowledgeable and educated and getting actually, More up to date information about menopause because we’ve been so behind.
Cathy: There’s been no research, there’s been no support, there’s been doctors denying that we have symptoms and doctors saying, sorry, you just get old now. Like, there’s been no attention paid. This happens to, like, even what, and you know, I agree with Duffy, and I love his book, Rescuing Our Sons, and there’s nothing I inherently disagree with.
Cathy: But as soon as we start to say, the girls are fine, but the boys are really the ones struggling, that’s not true. Because I’m [00:44:00] working with girls all the time and they’re not fine. Yeah,
Todd: I don’t know anybody who’s saying girls are fine. Like,
Cathy: well, but there’s what we end up saying is things like girls know, because like girls know how to talk about things.
Cathy: Girls know how to express themselves. Girls know how to share what they’re going through. This is all true. Not every single girl, but it’s more common that girls have more of a language for their emotions. They have more of an ability to perceive how others perceive them. There’s greater self awareness.
Cathy: So I give you that. You. But they’re also left with the inherent anxiety of being, um, female in our culture, which means that we don’t have as much many rights and we don’t have as much privilege and we don’t have as many opportunities. And it doesn’t mean that it’s just this conversation that can be difficult because I, men are like you’ve shown me all the stats, like I’m so glad that you and I have a relationship and I feel up to date about what.
Cathy: Men are confronting, you know what I mean, and what they’re dealing with and, [00:45:00] and why they don’t feel seen, except we have to keep it in balance because what ends up happening is we then keep staying behind and then all of a sudden we’re putting all of our attention on men again. So, as soon as we look at a stat and say, it’s really the boys who need help.
Cathy: Yes, they do. But girls need to be guided along this path just as well. And so it’s like, what language do we use? You know, everything has been so worn out and hijacked. Equality, you know, equanimity. Like, it’s just, it’s like this vibe I get. When I, and again, you guys, this is funny that you’re listening to this because, you know, this is Todd, my life.
Cathy: Like Todd runs a men’s organization. He’s the founder and I’m working with girls and women all the time. So these discussions are happening all the time. And how do I hold both of these things? without, without giving up what I know to be true, which is women need, we need to catch [00:46:00] up.
Todd: When one gender wins, both genders lose.
Todd: Correct. And this gender studies report focuses dominantly on women. Correct. Which I agree with. Right. This is not
Cathy: about you.
Todd: I think if you’re going to give me a choice on, if I can just snap my fingers and come into this world as a man or a woman, I think my opportunities are, as a man, are so much.
Todd: easier than if I were a woman. I, there’s no doubt about it. And there’s some effed up stuff that happens in the world of boys. Correct. It’s all the above.
Cathy: And a lot of it is because of patriarchy. Yes. And because of this theory of being an alpha male, a lot of it is like self sabotage. You know what I mean?
Cathy: Like it’s hurting. Patriarchy is hurting men, which in turn hurts women.
Todd: We are victims of the man box and we have created the man box. Right. And when I say we, I’m talking about men. Right. We have created this thing that we’re stuck in that we have, that is really hard to get out [00:47:00] of. And what’s the man box?
Todd: If you don’t know, it’s that your value is based on your money, your sports, your, how, your sexual prowess, uh, your, your stoic, there’s no emotions, like it’s an awful place to live. And we are, and I, give me that over being a girl because I don’t have to worry about it. 80 percent of the stuff walking around this world that you girls do.
Cathy: And that’s the thing is, and that wasn’t like. aimed at you that you don’t get it because I know you and I talk about it so much. It’s not about winning. It’s not about me saying, girls need more help. It’s about, I feel like we’re needing new language to make to, for me to acknowledge, okay, male menopause and also say, okay, that’s not where the spotlight needs to be though, because women are just getting their feet under them around menopause and it’s not time to switch the spotlight.
Cathy: Because there is a, and it doesn’t mean that there has to be one spotlight. We can have two going at one time. It’s just, you know, it’s that old saying of like, when you haven’t, and in no way am I saying [00:48:00] you’re saying this word, but when you’ve had privilege for a long time, then everything you don’t get feels like oppression.
Cathy: And I think that, and this is, you know, and I will say this as a white woman, these are things that, I have had to learn and continue to learn when it comes to race. You know what I mean? When it comes to being a black woman or a black man, like we have so much, it’s, there’s, this is relative to your, um, you know, to all the pieces of us, our race, our gender, all of those things that, you know, intersectionality of, of everybody.
Cathy: Sure. So, but it’s just this thing that when we’re having this conversation, like, and I think it goes back and forth, like, I want to completely support all these things around boys and men, and I do, and I also keep. You know, ringing the bell for girls, because we start to then shift. Right. Do you know what I mean?
Cathy: Of course. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because boys do need attention, but that doesn’t mean now girls don’t.
Todd: One gender wins, both genders lose. Correct. Two spotlights. Ooh, two spotlights.
Cathy: Maybe [00:49:00] that’s what we should call it.
Todd: Um, it’s not, you know, a limited pie.
Cathy: Right, and that’s why it’s interesting to come up with this language.
Cathy: We
Todd: have a little bit of space for us to talk about the changes in our bodies. In guys at 50 years old, knowing that the changes in a 50 year old woman’s body or 60 year old woman’s body is so much more dramatic. There’s no doubt about
Cathy: it. Not only is it more dramatic, but we have been focused on men’s bodies.
Cathy: All the research has been done about men’s bodies. You guys have your Viagra and your Cialis and everyone’s taking care of you and your sexual needs. And women have not. been focused on. So it’s not about, can we take some of that light from the women? You guys already have a lot. And we’re trying to say, let’s shine.
Cathy: Again, we don’t need to steal yours. It’s like, like you said, the pie is big enough for all of us. But it’s, I sometimes think, you know, women, Menopause is like an experience that women are having. And you know, it’s, it’s like a, I, I, [00:50:00] I’m doing the same thing I did last week. It’s hard to talk about without having a look on my face where I go like that.
Cathy: You know what I mean? Well, I want to give you the
Todd: space to have a look at your face like that. And I’m going to keep. Thinking about it, talking about it. I like it. Helping
Cathy: these guys who are stuck. Right. And that’s, and same when everyone’s like men are not getting their fair share or we need to worry about men, you know, and what they’re going through.
Cathy: I will support that and also not stop talking about women. I hope not. Yeah. And I know you won’t. No, I won’t. And so what’s interesting about this conversation is that when it comes to, you know, tonic masculinity, what, you know, Tim Walls is such a lovely combination of so many things.
Todd: Well, and for me, what he is is, I hate to go archetypes on you, but it’s a framework that I, that work really well for the guys I work with.
Todd: There is King, Warrior, Magician, and Lover. And Tim Walls can practice his King, which is the one who blesses other people. Right. The one who [00:51:00] has a vision of what he wants his life and his community’s experience to be. Yes. Warrior means he can be stoic and be primarily focused and be super strong. Lover means he gets sad and he can be emotional and practice compassion.
Todd: Magician is his, his beautiful brain works and does all these wonderful things. What he does is he has the ability to pause and discern what energy needs to show up in any specific moment. Most of us guys get stuck on one of these parts of us and we think that that’s who we are when we’re not. We’re very complicated human beings just like all all the women are.
Todd: All I want to do is pause, you know, this whole podcast is about self awareness. Right. Can we pause and see what needs to, what part of us needs to show up in a specific moment? Right. And there’s times when my stoic warrior wants to go back to work when my daughter needs connection. Right. Can I pause, stop what I’m doing, put my phone down, close my laptop, and give, look at her in the [00:52:00] eyes and really listen without fixing?
Todd: Can I do that? Yes. Do I do that? Sometimes. Sometimes not.
Cathy: And I will say that part of the reason that, you know, speaking up for women here is women, let’s just take the opposite side of the spectrum. Like, can we be less focused on making sure everybody in our family is okay and focus on ourselves and our career and furthering our ambition?
Cathy: And I want to be like, yes, we can. In many situations, we cannot because we, and this is my point is you guys are like, I’m going to do my ambition, but I’m going to be compassionate too, and I have all the space to do it. Not everybody, but, and women want to do these things, but they are the last line of defense often, like, I was just telling Todd a story this morning that this woman that I know, I’ll keep it general because, you know, but she teaches a class really early in the morning, just twice a week.
Cathy: She’s a mom. Okay. She’s like a full time mom, basically. And she has these two classes that she teaches that [00:53:00] she loves. And it turns out that her partner for the last two or three weeks has said, you can’t teach that class on, you know, this certain day because I have to go to work early. And so she had, and so I heard her talking to other people and she’s like, I have two things during the week that I need to do.
Cathy: And I can’t even, you know, Do them because my husband’s job always comes first. So it becomes this like, and again, that’s a very specific model. Not everybody has that situation. Not every, there are single moms who are doing this all by themselves. Um, you know, but that’s the, that’s the thing is like, how do we, recognize each other’s situation is that you guys are like, yeah, we just need to get guys more compassionate.
Cathy: We also need to give women more space to be able to go after their ambition and have their two classes that they want to teach. You know, it’s not a big ass.
Todd: So we’re going to talk about that on August 26th. Yeah. Couples night. Yes. Uh, noticing.
Cathy: Noticing. So we’re, on that, that class [00:54:00] or that, what do we, what do we call it, a discussion?
Todd: We’re leading a discussion.
Cathy: Yeah. In that discussion, we’re going to talk about these things, about what we, you know, and again, I came into it focused on, again, you know, recognizing that women notice things. a lot of things and it’s why we tend to be like primary caregivers and it’s why we tend to be CEOs of the home because we’re noticing what’s happening.
Cathy: But obviously Todd, because it’s going, it’s a men living class and a team Zen class. Um, you will bring the aspects that maybe women aren’t noticing, you know, men are struggling more with depression. Men are struggling more with loneliness, even when they’re married. Yeah. Because they, you know, it’s funny, we were just talking about, um, Internal family systems.
Cathy: And there was such a great explanation in the book about why we feel lonely and it’s because all of our parts are separated.
Yeah.
Cathy: Like I found that so, and again, if you don’t understand IFS, I don’t know if that makes any sense, but it’s when our parts recognize each other and work together that we don’t feel lonely.
Cathy: [00:55:00] Yeah. It’s not really being with other people.
Todd: Well, and it’s, it’s, it’s the parts working together and then it’s our, the self, our,
Cathy: Our inner relationship with those parts. And that’s the thing is if those parts are separate and we’re also pushing away a lot of those parts because we don’t want to hear it, we are so internally lonely.
Todd: Well, and that’s, you know, any of the parts that we push down, anything that we, you know, deny or suppress, uh, it’s just going to come out sideways in a messed up way. It always does. We need to have conversations. It’s investigating. investigation with these shadowy or not shadowy, but like these different aspects of ourselves that we don’t allow to show up.
Cathy: Because they all have something to tell us. They would not be in us if they didn’t have a message.
Todd: Well, and most of this happens in my mind. And you know, when I’m struggling with something, whether it’s with parenting or relationship, if I can share it with you or a good friend or my [00:56:00] coach or my therapist, that is, I mean, that’s just, It’s just therapy, whether it’s one on one therapy with your good friend, just.
Todd: sharing something that you’re scared of or that makes you angry. Um, that’s what this is all about. So anyways, now it’s on August 26th. Yeah.
Cathy: So how do they, how do people sign up for that?
Todd: Click on, just in the show notes, it’s right at the top. You can find
Cathy: it.
Todd: Uh, we have a ZenTalk, uh, number 190 on the 21st, which is eight days away.
Todd: And that’s our Team Zen virtual community. Team Zen, virtually, community, and then, sorry, trying to do too many things at once. I know, your
Cathy: brain, you go faster than your words can go. And
Todd: then John Duffy in September.
Cathy: Yes!
Cathy: What’s that?
Todd: Friday the 13th, sweetie.
Cathy: Sweetie. Oh, that is Friday the 13th. I was about to say that’s Halloween and that is Jason. You’re right.
Todd: That’s right. So Friday the 13th, John Duffy. Only for Team Zen. So the only way to get on live with Dr. John [00:57:00] Duffy to talk about men and boys and women and girls and everything else.
Cathy: Oh, that’s only for Team Zen? Because weren’t we going to make some announcement? Oh, that’s right. That’s not on Team Zen. That is our podcast. That’s our regular podcast. So that’s not true. Even though we will have other things just for Team Zen. Yeah. Um, that, so I suggest you join, um, but that is going to be more like announcements because some people may have gotten emails from us.
Cathy: If you’re on our email list and you got emails, but if you didn’t get an email from us, then you should be following my sub stack or something because we’ve been making announcements. That’s right. And I’m being elusive. Or just
Todd: join
Cathy: Team
Todd: Zen.
Cathy: Join Team Zen. Follow us, do something because we got stuff coming up everybody.
Todd: And if you’re in Chicago, head on over to avidco. net. Painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area. 6309561800. Jeremy Kraft, he’s a bald headed beauty. Give him a call. Tell him Todd and Kathy sent you. Keep trucking [00:58:00] everybody.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.
