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Todd: Hi, my name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number. Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it, 812. And while listen to Zen Parenting Radio because you’ll feel outstanding and always remember our motto, which is the best predictor of a child’s wellbeing, is a parent’s self understanding on today’s show.
Todd: Well, first of all, this, uh, this episode is brought to you by Mucinex. Not really. Uh, I don’t even know what Mucinex is, but you just said that you’re gonna have me run to the store to get some Mucinex.
Cathy: I’ve never used Mucinex before, but for some reason I woke up and I don’t [00:01:00] feel very good and, um, I just couldn’t, I just started reading about maybe what I could take to,
Cathy: like, I tend to be like that natural person who’s like, let it run its course and do all these natural things. And sometimes I’m like, I just don’t wanna wait. Yeah, let’s go. I mean, who does? Right? Let’s go. So I am doing a bunch of things and I’m gonna see if I can keep this from getting full blown, ’cause I’m kind of okay, but I’m kind of not, I kind of wanna lay down right now.
Cathy: Can I do that? Um,
Todd: well I think first thing in the morning, it’s, we’re re we usually record, uh, mid-morning. It’s eight 11 in the morning here, Uhhuh. And it’s normal to, you’re still getting the cobwebs out. Go easy on your teeth,
Cathy: sweetie. I haven’t had coffee or anything, but just the fact that I’m up, I’m obviously not that bad.
Cathy: Right? Yeah.
Todd: Right. Yeah.
Cathy: But yeah. So, uh, so let’s, let’s, uh, let’s go.
Todd: Um, so first I just wanna say that we have some, uh, team Zen things coming up. Uhhuh. We have Zen Talk number 199, um, today at noon. Oh. So if you’re listening [00:02:00] to this. Uh, when it’s released on Tuesday mornings. And you wanna join Cathy and Todd for a conversation on Zoom that we support each other, uh, around the trials and tribulations of parenting.
Todd: It’s
Cathy: a q and A.
Todd: It’s a q and a. Uh, we also have a micro community, differently wired families. Uh, and then you and I are doing something called men marriage and menopause. Mm-hmm. Navigating the change together. That’s an evening Zen talk slash men living event for men and women. Uh, men, but all genders, men, marriage and menopause.
Todd: And then there’s that, that crafty old women’s group that you do where I’m not invited. When I say
Cathy: crafty.
Todd: Well, first of all, more people show up to the women’s group than our zen talk. And the only difference between a women’s group. And Xox are me. So no offense taken everybody. It’s just a little interesting.
Cathy: Well, we talk about things that are, that we are dealing with personally.
Todd: I know. Well then we’re doing that on Xox too,
Cathy: [00:03:00] kind of. But we have to consider all these other
Todd: Yeah. Me pieces. Me
Cathy: men. Well, I don’t feel like this. Well, the other thing is you don’t record them.
Todd: Correct. That. So women feel a little bit more, they can drop their guard and Yes.
Todd: Really kind of get it. And
Cathy: we talk about things that are, that are fully, um. That are important to us or that relate to us specifically. So it’s not that, you know, it’s not that you wouldn’t find some things interesting or important, but we just don’t, we kind of leave you out of it. Yeah. You know, you meaning being a man.
Todd: I get it. And there’s things that I love about being in a group of men where I don’t have to worry about how a woman is going to receive it or be a part of it. So anyways. And then lastly, you, uh, June 5th, you and I are doing. Something called college is coming. How to talk to our kids, set expectations and stay connected before and after they go.
Cathy: Yeah. And that class or that discussion group is about getting your kids ready, like if they’re a sophomore or junior and all. Or if you have a senior [00:04:00] who’s about to leave or if you have a kid who’s in college and you feel disconnected. So it’s all of the above.
Todd: Um, but first we’re gonna talk about your.
Todd: Zen parenting moment. Yeah.
Cathy: On Substack.
Todd: On Substack. Leave things better than we found them. Now. I would love to be able to share a clip about what inspired this, uh, zen parenting moment, but it’s more visual than anything else. But, but
Cathy: you can hear the water,
Todd: you and I. Um. Sometimes I’ve been reading a book lately, which is good for me ’cause I don’t read books that much.
Todd: But every now and again, we just veg out on your Instagram or your threads or whatever. I don’t know what you do. The
Cathy: tiktoks. Well Substack is different than, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Uh, sometimes I scroll through tiktoks. Yes.
Todd: And one of the things that shows up is a guy or a girl. We don’t know who it is. I think it’s a man.
Todd: Um, and they clean rugs,
Uhhuh,
Todd: and what, and you’ll sit there and watch this guy clean a little, like, welcome Matt for about nine minutes. Yes. I love, why do you like this?
Cathy: Uh, ’cause it’s [00:05:00] very efficient and it’s very, he, I, I wrote about this in the Substack, but he has all the tools that he needs and he has the right water pressure and he is wearing these really high boots so he doesn’t get all wet.
Cathy: And it’s just a really satisfying watch because he cleans this rug and he cleans it like 10 times and like rolls it up and stomps on it.
Todd: It starts out really dirty where you don’t even recognize it’s a little rug. Yeah. You
Cathy: can’t even tell it’s a rug. You don’t know what’s on it. And then he finishes it and he dries it and it’s just really satisfying.
Cathy: ’cause a lot of times, I mean there’s two parts to it. I made it more of a metaphor for let’s put good things into the world. Mm-hmm. Um, I turned it into something deeper, but for me, like I clean the house once a week and I often don’t have the right tools. Yeah. Like I find that I like, I’m like, oh, I don’t know how to wipe this up, or I can’t get this stain out, or I don’t have enough paper towels or whatever.
Cathy: You know, most of the time we have
Todd: enough paper towels, something goes wrong,
Cathy: something something I need, and it’s [00:06:00] frustrating because I would like to. Finish cleaning and I can’t.
Todd: Right. Um, so. You, the title of the Substack is Leave Things Better Than We Found Them. Mm-hmm. And you go on to talk a little bit about, um, a few fictional characters.
Todd: I have some clips pulled up, but do you wanna just say more about the inspiration about what it is that you’re trying to communicate with this moment? I
Cathy: think I, I wanted to write about. I kept saying, Todd, I’m gonna write about the rug guy because he means a lot to me or that Paige does and I watch it a lot.
Cathy: Um, and then I was telling Manisha that I love the rug guy. And she’s like, well, have you seen the lawn guy? And I have seen the lawn guy, but she said, he’s my favorite. And it’s this guy who goes to houses where the. All of their shrubs and their trees are overgrown and he knocks on the door and says, can I do your lawn for free?
Cathy: And most of the time it’s elderly people who cannot take care of their lawn anymore. And he just does this really, again, he has all the right tools, he gets up all the weeds, he has all the things [00:07:00] and, and it’s very satisfying ’cause he leaves their yard better than he found it. And the rug person leaves the rug better than they found it.
Cathy: And. I just wanted to talk about, ’cause I kind of feel like there’s some people in charge right now who are not leaving things, um, better than they found them. Mm-hmm. I think that there are leaders right now, and you can think about your own community or people in your life or in, you know, at the highest levels of government that just tend to mess things up or make things chaotic just because it.
Cathy: Demonstrate some kind of power to them or they wanna dominate or prove people wrong or be vengeful or, um, you know, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know what that thought process is of why you want to, so chaos. I, I mean, I guess I do if I look into each person’s issue, but I really do believe. That that comes from an inability to get your needs met or to be seen any other way that you know, if somebody doesn’t feel like they’re getting enough attention one way, I mean, think about [00:08:00] your children.
Cathy: If they’re not getting enough positive attention, then they go for negative attention. They’ll
Todd: get it one way or another because
Cathy: they want attention. And I think that there are people, adults who have grown up, who feel like, for whatever reason I’m going, the way I’m gonna get attention is through fear and anger and chaos.
Cathy: And people will look at me and they’ll fear me and it’ll be, you know, I think about Joaquin Phoenix and Gladiator. Um, oh, I’ve got Gladiator behind my head. See? Yeah,
Todd: there it is. It’s one of
Cathy: my favorite movies. If you watch us on YouTube, I have a poster of Gladiator behind my head. Um, but his king, you know, he kills his own father.
Cathy: Sorry. Uh, to people you haven’t yet seen it, but, uh, it’s been 20 years. So, um, and then he takes over and he does not know how to be a leader. His father was such, you know, Maximus, or not Maximus is Russell Crowe, but his father who was Marcus Aurelius, right? Yeah. I saying that right. Sounds right. He was an amazing leader and everyone loved him and admired him, and he was someone who had been on the battlefield and had earned his respect.[00:09:00]
Cathy: But his son played by Joaquin Phoenix is, is, has never done anything. Like he’s learned things, he’s gone to school, but he’s always been afraid.
Todd: He hasn’t had any real experience.
Cathy: And, and there’s a great line at the end of Gladiator where, um, Maximus says that to him, like he says, what do you think, uh, you know, Joaquin’s character says, what do you think?
Cathy: I’m afraid of you. And gladiators, or you know, Maximus says, I think you’ve been afraid your entire life. And it shows up in how you use your power and your fear. Um, and so I see that around us and it’s very transparent to me as a human being, but also as a therapist, I’m like, I see what you’re doing. You know what I mean?
Cathy: Like, it’s not, I don’t think you’re strong or powerful, like it, to me, it’s just a, it’s just a kind of a childhood cry for help. Um, so. Coming back to what your question is. I wanted to write about that. I really think most people wanna do good things and put good things in the world and, um, how much better it feels.
Cathy: Because when you put bad things in the world, it hurts you plus [00:10:00] everybody else, right? And when you put good things out, you’re helping the person that you’re being good to, you’re, you feel good about it. And I know this is very simplistic thinking. I understand that there’s sometimes
Todd: the simple stuff is the good stuff.
Cathy: I agree. And I think sometimes we just need to realize that especially, you know, this is. At its heart a parenting podcast, right? And can I bring in a little, uh, Joaquin, and please. Oh yeah, please,
for himself in the great arena,
you would fight me. Why not? Do you think I’m afraid? I think you’ve been afraid. All you, unlike Maximus, the invincible, who knows? No fear.
A man who once said, death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back. I wonder, did your friend smile at his [00:11:00] own death? Now we’re getting into this story.
Cathy: Well, and you know, Maximus, not only has he been a great warrior and he sacrificed for his country, and he had a very tight relationship with, um, Marcus Aurelius, who actually wanted him to become King.
Cathy: Um, he also had, he had love, he loved his partner, he loved his son. So he knew what he was fighting for. Yeah. And in the end, all Maximus really wanted was to go home. Yeah. Um, there’s a lot of wheat in the movie. A lot of him with his hand on the wheat. Yeah, I, that was pointed out in the re watchable, it made me laugh.
Cathy: But I find it to be a really good, you know, somebody who, who reaches for power, who is fearful and doesn’t have any respect, and somebody who has earned respect and actually what all they want is to be with the people they love.
Todd: That’s right.
Cathy: Um, so it’s very, you know. Power. Power doesn’t feed us. Um, connection feeds us.
Todd: You continue to bring up. ’cause I like it when you put in some pop culture things. Yeah. ’cause it gives me something to do. Sure. You talk a little bit about the Grinch who stole Christmas. Yeah. So I [00:12:00] found this one and I think it’s a decent clip of uh, ’cause the don’t we all love. The original, the best. It is the best.
Todd: Maybe not, but who knows? I
do. And they’re hanging their stocking teeth now with a SNE motto. His Christmas is practically here, and that he growled with his grit fingers nervously rubbing. I must find some way to keep Christmas from coming.
Todd: So why, why is the Grinch so mad?
Cathy: And you know, to your point, obviously the original is my favorite in my heart, but the most recent one that was made with,
Todd: Hey, Grinchy.
Todd: Hey
Cathy: Grinchy, with, uh, Benedict Cumber batch, um, was very well done as well. The, our family loves it and it explains why the Grinch wants to steal Christmas and he wants to steal Christmas ’cause he’s been traumatized.
Todd: But it’s a little, uh, alphabet ish. Yeah, it’s very alphabet ish. Like, like let’s get to the.
Todd: Bottom line. Like how do these people get to be [00:13:00] so quote unquote evil?
Cathy: Well, and that’s the thing is they’re not, you know, that like the, the thing I wrote in the Substack was the Grinch didn’t wanna steal Christmas, the Grinch wanted be to be invited over for Christmas. You know, like, but because no one was doing that.
Cathy: Yeah, he wanted to steal it because he didn’t want anyone else to be happy. Um. And, you know, so it, it’s just, and again, I use, sometimes I’ve gotten feedback like, well, great, but these aren’t read real people. You know, I use pop culture references, but everybody, you have to remember that pop culture is a reflection of us.
Cathy: True pop culture’s not made in a vacuum. Yes, it’s exaggerated. Yes. It’s sometimes, you know, over the top or it’s idealized, but for the most part it’s a reflection of us. Um, and so the Grinch is a reflection of. A child who was not given things at Christmas, and I don’t mean like presents, I mean support, hope, love, family.
Cathy: And so what does that turn into? I.
Todd: Well, plus if you start talking about your Uncle Joe, nobody [00:14:00] knows who Uncle Joe is. Correct. But everybody knows who the Grinch is, so I love using it.
Cathy: Yeah. And then the next one that I used was, uh, Miranda Priestly. Um, I don’t
Todd: know who that is.
Cathy: So Double Wears Prada, Mery Streep.
Cathy: Oh,
Todd: interesting.
Cathy: And I used it because it’s a little different. Um, in that Miranda Priestly had to be cold because of the world that she swam in. If for her to maintain that power, um, she had to not be soft. She had to be willing to be cutthroat because she’s kind of like the, you know, she’s an. Early on, girl Boss, you know, and there wasn’t room for what, maybe now we’re hoping for more with female leadership, which is to bring all of ourselves integrated, you know, bring all of our pieces.
Cathy: Um, when, and again, Miranda’s a fictional character, but it’s based on, um, Anna Wintour. So, you know, she had to be cold. And, and we, we have enough scenes in the movie to show us, you know, she’s had all these divorces, she’s devastated by it. She’s [00:15:00] devastated. She’s sad.
Todd: Does she soften up at the end? I forget that movie.
Cathy: Not really. A little bit. I mean, we show her, she’s finally shown, kind of broken down because she finds out she’s getting another divorce. Um, and she obviously lets you know, Anne Hathaway. She gives her a good recommendation at the end, blah, blah, blah. But
Todd: do you wanna hear a little bit of Miranda Priestley?
I
Cathy: think
that depends on what your, hello? That was a new question. There is some reason that my coffee isn’t here. Has she died or something? I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to confirm an appointment. No, I’m so sorry, Miranda. I actually did confirm your incompetence. Do not interest me. No, I was tear my eggs here.
Where are my eggs? The lingerie shoot on my car or. Reservation
Todd: people. She’s throwing all her stuff on in Netflix says Pathways. Do you remember Michael Scott did that one time? Was he trying to be Miranda Priestly? He was trying to be Miranda Priestly. I, I think most people love that movie. I saw it once, maybe I should get [00:16:00] another shot.
Todd: It wasn’t my thing. I don’t know why.
Cathy: It’s kinda a cult classic, like most, uh, and again, maybe guys too, but most women have seen it a number of of times. Yeah. And it’s, you know, it’s such a great performance, right?
Todd: Yeah. Well plus all of us have, uh, some Miranda Priestly in us. Right. And then whoever Anne Hathaway character represents, like the innocent one.
Todd: Just trying to do their best, like taps into a lot of different parts of who we are and what makes us human. So,
Cathy: and you know, and Anne Hathaway starts to gain power. Mm. And starts to lose track of what’s most important. Like, that’s the thing is sometimes Todd, and I’ll watch like some version of Star Wars, you know, a new Hope or whatever, and I watch it and I say, Todd, how do people watch this movie and not see who they are?
Cathy: Right. And and Todd will always say, you think they, you know, they, they think they’re, everyone thinks they’re Luke Skywalker.
Todd: That’s right. Nobody wants to say they’re Darth Vader. They think they’re saving the world. I know, but how did they not? Meanwhile they destroy it. See the
Cathy: deeper points of like taking care of others and you know, [00:17:00] ensuring that people have freedom.
Cathy: That’s great question I,
Todd: and if I really knew the answer to that. I probably wouldn’t be on this podcast, but I, I don’t know, I think most people see them as a hero. I, you know, maybe there’s see themselves,
Cathy: yeah.
Todd: Maybe there’s like some Ted Bundys out there that just know they’re doing bad things. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Uh, but most people Yeah, like
Cathy: people who are sociopathic. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.
Todd: But most people think they’re doing good things.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: When it sure doesn’t turn on the news and. Plenty of people out there are doing bad things that think they’re doing good things.
Cathy: Yeah. And a lot of them, you know, again, we’re, I can do deep dives about this, a lot of it’s survival.
Cathy: You know, a lot of it’s because that’s what they’ve learned and they feel like they have no choice. A lot of it is because, um, again, they’re so in their trauma. Like I was listening to a podcast this morning, Monica Lewinsky, uh, was on D’S podcast again for the second time, and I really, really. Have a lot of admiration for Monica Lewinsky.
Cathy: She’s one of the one, I have a lot of female role models that I kind of put on a vision [00:18:00] board, you know, and she’s one of ’em. But she was talking about, um. How sometimes she thinks she’s worked something through and she’s like, oh, I feel very clear about this. And then she’ll listen to her podcast. Or for her, God forbid, when she was going through the whole thing with Bill Clinton, they made her listen to all the recordings she made with Linda Tripp.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Like all of those phone calls and she’s like to listen to yourself talk and to listen to yourself on your podcast when you really haven’t worked something through and you think you sound good. In your head, you think you’re doing something good and then you listen and you’re like, wow, I was being really defensive.
Cathy: I was, you know, like, have you ever had that experience when you’ve listened to our show? We’ve got a lot of, we’ve got a lot of, um. Episodes to listen to, but have you ever listened to us back and you were like, oh, I don’t like the way I did that. Of course, yeah. Same of, yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Um, yeah. And when I think of Monica Lewinsky and you know, she’s on a bunch of podcasts, but when I think of her, she’s just resilient.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: And resilience is such a wonderful human quality. And I sometimes [00:19:00] like feel sorry for myself because somebody looked at me the wrong way. Think about how the world hated her. I know. She was blamed, blamed for everything that happened. She was a global joke and, and it would’ve been so easy for her to go hide underneath a rock for the rest of her life.
Todd: Yeah. And instead, she’s not like, she really is inspirational.
Cathy: Well, and she tried to do all the things people told her to do. You know, she. She left the country. She went to school in London to get her master’s degree. And she was like, okay, I am out of the country. But people still knew who she was. And then when she finally got her master’s degree, she came back to get a job.
Cathy: ’cause everyone’s like, well, you just move on. And she tried to move on, but no one would hire her. And then all of a sudden, you know, she gets put in all these rap songs. I think she said she’s in like 120 something rap songs. So younger generations know who she is. But she’s taken it and she’s figured out how to, how to use it for good.
Cathy: Again, this is what this thing is about that I wrote is like she took something that happened. And, and, and again, she owns her. Her issues with it. Yeah. Like the [00:20:00] mistakes she made, the choices she made. But you guys, she was 22 years old. Think about
Todd: how stupid the mistakes I made when I was 22. My
Cathy: oldest daughter is 22 right now.
Cathy: And just like understanding where she is in her life and to be like, oh. Everything that’s going on in the world is this person’s fault. Yeah. I mean, are you kidding me? I get it. So anyway, didn’t mean to get all wrapped up that she had a TED
Todd: talk called the Price of Shame. I think it’s been watched 14 million times.
Cathy: Yeah. I show it to my college students every semester.
Todd: Yeah,
Cathy: because it’s a, it’s about shame, but it’s also about bullying and it’s about, mm-hmm. Um, how that’s connected.
Todd: And can I give your second to last paragraph, which I think is pretty good. Good. At this moment you say So much could change if more people realized how much better life feels when we choose generosity and kindness over fear and scarcity.
Todd: Mm. But that kind of understanding usually comes through failure and lived experience, and unfortunately, some never get there and they continue to turn their pain into blame and harm aimed at the world.
Cathy: Mm-hmm.
Todd: It’s really nice, sweetie. Oh,
Cathy: thanks. I mean, I kind of feel like if this is [00:21:00] kind of a good example of in parenting, I, again, I think of certain people who are leaders right now who I think they kept getting saved from their mistakes.
Cathy: And they were either saved by the fact that they had plenty of money or people hid things that they then didn’t have to deal with. Like they didn’t have consequences that they had to deal with. Yeah, they didn’t learn. They didn’t learn, they didn’t grow. Um. You know, there’s things, you know, my daughter’s trying to figure out what to do.
Cathy: She’s in speech and she’s trying to figure out what to do a speech on next year. And one of the things that she and I have talked about that she’s kind of interested in is talking about post-traumatic growth, um, as a speech, like, um, such a great talk. Yeah, I know. Because we do have post-traumatic stress and we do have, um, post-traumatic challenges, you know, that can show up in our physicality or in the way we deal with our emotions or.
Cathy: You know, that’s all real. That’s why we have therapy and do the things we do and, and sometimes after we process through and reintegrate, um, post-traumatic growth [00:22:00] is what makes us become the people we’ve always hoped to be. That’s where we realize, what do I want to give the world? Like how am I showing up?
Cathy: And you’re never gonna like, make every choice good. It’s just that if your intention is I hurt, you know, I’m not, I don’t wanna hurt people, I wanna do something good, then when you do hurt someone, you apologize or you clean it up, or you take responsibility. You like you live in such a way. Not a mistake freeway, but you live in such a way that your intention is to put good things in the world.
Todd: Boom.
Cathy: And so,
Todd: um, I want to just, uh, I’m gonna share my screen. Okay? Most people, uh, want to listen to it, but, okay. Uh, I.[00:23:00]
Cathy: Oh, see, this is a different
Todd: thing. Are you not a fan of this guy? I’m
Cathy: quite this like consistent with
Todd: Yeah,
Cathy: like my guy.
Todd: So just Google rug cleat, perfect cleaning bag.
Cathy: It’s kind of an ASMR thing. Yeah, it’s the sound and the consistency saying that asmr, I dunno, the girls make fun of me because I say it wrong.
Cathy: They’ll be like, mom, it’s a SMR. Um, let me look. A SM let, yeah. A SMR, which stands for, do you know?
Todd: Uh,
Cathy: always
Todd: simply managing. Radios
Cathy: autonomous sensory
Todd: meridian response. Oh my God, I’m so close. Um, so I, I think we’re gonna close shop just because my sweetheart is a little under the [00:24:00] weather, and I’m sure our fans are
Cathy: so many good vibes.
Cathy: I would like to
Todd: just have one day where I don’t feel so good.
Cathy: I’d like to feel just fine tomorrow. Yeah.
Todd: It’s just gonna be a one day illness. Let’s just put that on our, yeah. And our intention and yeah,
Cathy: it could be that I’m tired or something
Todd: because we got a Zen talk in a few hours here, sweetie. I know.
Cathy: I’ll be there for that.
Todd: Um, so if anybody’s interested in joining Team Zen, go ahead and, uh, scroll down in the show notes and you can, um. Be a part of the team.
Cathy: Can I share one more thing?
Todd: Uh, sure.
Cathy: On my Substack, um, which it’s, you know, Zen Parenting moment. Cathy Kani Adams. You can find it. Scroll down, click on follow, subscribe.
Cathy: I’m actually gonna offer a, um, a paid subscription now on top of it. So anybody who’s subscribed, you’re still gonna get it for free. Don’t worry. You’re gonna get everything you’ve always got. But I’m gonna add something else to it that if you would like to get more. Um, of what I write about, then you can, you can, it’s like a, it’s a per, it’s behind a paywall.
Todd: Yeah. You’re subscribe and you get more content
Cathy: and you know what I call it? What it’s [00:25:00] called Ping. Ping. Yeah. Like the penguins. I like that. And I even made my own
Todd: little a logo. Oh, really? Uhhuh all. It’s cute. Good for you, sweetie. I’m gonna, I’m gonna subscribe. Will you,
Cathy: will you pay? I will. It’s not a lot, by the way, Stu uh, Substack is like $5 a month, so it’s not like a lot.
Cathy: We gotta jack that up. No, you can, but I feel like that’s where I’d like to start. Or you can do $50 a month, which then it ends up being a little cheaper. $50 a year, you mean? $50 a year. I’m sorry. That’s okay. Yeah. So anyway, I just, I’m really trying to focus more on writing and I, I tend to get feedback that, um, at least from a few people who said, can you do like short, shorter, like.
Cathy: Here, do this or do this. Yeah, like shorter, like, um, examples of how we can support our kids or how we can show up for ourselves. And so I’m like, okay, I can do that, but that’s a little more time.
Todd: So, so, um, I want to thank uh, Jeremy Kraft. He’s a Baldheaded Beauty. He does painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area.
Todd: So if you have any [00:26:00] projects coming up, give him a call. That’s 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800. He’s been our partner since day one, since podcast number one. Thank you Jeremy, and we’ll catch you all next Tuesday. Keep talking.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.
