[00:00:00]
Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number 811, why I Lived in Zen Parenting Radio because you’ll feel outstanding and always remember the motto. Which is the best predictor of a child’s wellbeing is a parent’s self understanding.
Todd: Uh, the main focus of today’s episode is gonna be about Cathy’s substack and you title it, choose your three words. Mm-hmm. But before we do that, I’m going to, um, I just wrote a tiny thing at the beginning of the Men Living Newsletter. You and I have been talking about it this morning about the low loneliness epi epidemic for men.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: And the three words that I see a lot in whatever [00:01:00] headlines I see is men are lonely. Right? And, um, I just, it’s just like a three sentence blog that I did at the beginning of this week’s newsletter. And it’s basically like. The whole sentence structure is men are lonely as it’s as if it’s happening to us.
Todd: Mm-hmm. And one of the things that I like to model in my life is taking radical responsibility for the events in my life. I don’t always do that. Sometimes I blame and I’m a victim. But when I’m in my best self, I am doing something to navigate the outcome that I want. And when I hear headlines that say.
Todd: Men are lonely. You know, the data says that one in six men in this country don’t have a single friend. I, I empathize with that. I’ve dedicated a lot of my energy to try to support men and finding friends through men living in other ways. And I think the proper headline should be Men are Choosing to Be Lonely [00:02:00] because that is a more active.
Todd: Voice like this is a choice. If there’s a man out there who doesn’t have friends and is sitting in his basement, or he is just lonely on a park bench, but is longing for connection, all these guys have to do is Google finding a men’s group or find best way to find friends. So my imitation is for anybody listening, whether you’re a man or a woman who knows a man just.
Todd: Just invite them into. Yeah, any of these number of spaces that exist to not be lonely.
Cathy: Well, and let’s just take it deeper, um, because I agree with you. Obviously you and I have been discussing this a lot because the data that, you know, you men living and lots of other organizations share or that Scott Scott Galloway talks about all the time is about this loneliness epidemic for men.
Cathy: And I was telling Todd that as I’m [00:03:00] reading all the time and reading people’s Substack and. Reading, you know, just kind of people’s thoughts on this. And I’m seeing that the tide is turning a little bit on that. What I mean is that there’s a feeling the whole, like men are lonely, so we have to like figure out new pipelines for them to get better education and we have to figure out how we can help them and support them.
Cathy: And while no one is inherently against that. There’s a lot of choice in that loneliness, to your point. Meaning if you really are going to sit in a basement and smoke weed and, and whatever, then of course you’re gonna be lonely. Like that’s a given. And the, the, the, what I always, um, what Todd and I always go back and forth about is that women over time, you know, historically speaking, and even now.
Cathy: We adapt to new situations and learn how to adapt and modernize and become more current with what’s necessary to continue, you know, to keep going, to keep moving forward. [00:04:00] And I think some men not all, are at this stopping point where they don’t know how to adapt to this changing culture. And so they’re just stopping instead of adapting.
Cathy: And, and it doesn’t mean we can’t have compassion and empathy, especially if you’re a parent and you’re watching your son go through this. But the thing that, that they’re missing is that there’s so many opportunities and choices. There’s no. Legislation against men. There is nobody trying to put their foot on the neck of men.
Cathy: Like there’s nobody, you know, government is definitely not doing that right now. I mean, white men are in their glory right now, you know? So they have all the opportunities in the world and the inability to seek out friendships and the inability is an inability to adapt. And so, Todd read some of the things though that we discussed last night of how men can.
Cathy: Adapt. Because remember we were like, you kept saying, so what’s the solution? And you read me a bunch of [00:05:00] things that we were like, yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Richard Reeves things. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Todd: Uhhuh. Oh, I don’t have my phone on me. But, uh, one is, uh, starting, uh, so Boys brain development biologically is a little bit later than our female counterparts.
Todd: So red shirting all boys before they get to first grade. So, in other words, uh, a girl in first grade say she starts at six, a boy in first grade starts at seven.
Cathy: So maybe, maybe,
Todd: yeah.
Cathy: If you are concerned about your son’s emotional development or academic development, maybe they start a year later. That’s one option that has been recommended through research.
Cathy: Um, I think another one that was recommended was, um, I. Oh, there was something. Oh, are you finding it? I’m
Todd: finding it right now. Okay. Um, redesign education to fit boys developmental needs. That one I’m a little like, well, that’s part of the redshirting a year.
Cathy: Okay. So that’s the same
Todd: thing. Alright. Rebuild paths to suc, uh, paths to success beyond a four year degree.
Todd: [00:06:00] Um, ideas to invest heavily in vocational training, vocational training, apprenticeships, and other pathways.
Cathy: I would, I would, before you move on, I was just talking to one of my. Uh, girlfriends because there’s a young man in her life that, um, well, it’s not her life, but this young man is dating her daughter.
Cathy: Yeah. And so she’s very connected to him and close to him and he’s really struggling ’cause he did not go to school and he’s not go to college post high school and he’s not quite sure what to do and he doesn’t feel like there’s any opportunities for him. And of course there are, but he’s just having a hard time finding that door.
Cathy: And just the idea of. There’re being more vocational programs and more apprenticeship programs and more opportunities to do the kind of work that, that they, you know, men may enjoy or be good at. And women for that matter too, it’s not just for men, it’s just about having things beyond a four year degree.
Cathy: Like a four year degree is not the only way to make a living. And let me say this point, I have a guy friend. Who decided to go to coll. His dad [00:07:00] was uh, um, in blue collar work and he, my friend, decided to go to college ’cause he didn’t wanna do what his dad did. He did not wanna do the apprenticeship program and.
Cathy: His dad is now retired, doing really, really well because he had this like, you know, job that paid him well and kept him invested. And my friend who did the four collar, or excuse me, the four year college thing, I wouldn’t say he’s struggling by any means, but it’s still a really hard job that he’s like, maybe this wasn’t the path for me.
Cathy: Right. Do you know what I mean? So there sometimes we just kind of see things and we’re like. You know, there’s only one way to do this, and really there’s many ways to get an education.
Todd: Two other ideas. Yes. Uh, supporting fathers in male caregiving, and the idea is to normalize and encourage male caregiving through paternity leave policies, cultural support and parenting educators aimed at fathers.
Todd: I love that. And then the last one is redefining masculinity. Not erase it. Reeves argues de that declaring war of masculinity. He re Sorry. [00:08:00] He argues against declaring war on masculinity, and instead he believes in redefining it to align with modern values, which is responsibility, service, emotional strength, and resilience.
Todd: And his idea is to promote a positive, flexible version of masculinity that courages vulnerability and emotional growth, while still honoring traditional strengths like leadership, courage, and protection.
Cathy: Of course, for all, you know, here’s the thing. Right now. And I love that by the way, that the modernizing and you know, you know, working with the language, it’s both.
Cathy: But I sent you an article today and a lot of the discussion in it about this loneliness epidemic is that masculinity, or let me say, let me say in patriarchy, because that’s not you guys specifically, that’s the system We live in a patriarchal culture and a lot of guys
Todd: hear that word and they feel like it’s an attack against them.
Todd: No.
Cathy: Separate the individual, the human being from the system. Yeah. The system is patriarchy. Okay. So the system is built on. [00:09:00] Um, you know, making things like emotions, weak, making things like being vulnerable, weak, um, making anything that’s feminine bad, making connection, something where you then are, you know, whipped and, you know, you don’t have your own individual life or thoughts.
Cathy: All of that has been all of those things that actually lead to joy, connection, and loneliness has been, the patriarchy has called it bad. Yeah. Okay. So part of the reason that women are able to adapt and modernize, even though they’re constantly being forced to, like it’s a little more pressure, a little more of the foot on the neck, if you know what I mean.
Cathy: But the reason they can is because they live for connection and. Um, you know, like have sensitivity and empathy and compassion. Yes, men have that too, but inside of them they think it’s bad and wrong. Yeah. If they are living in the man box, the men who have made their way out of that man box, hallelujah.
Cathy: So again, we’re just speaking generally, but you can understand, you know, men are like, you know, I don’t know what to do in this culture. [00:10:00] I don’t know who to be. Which is why, it’s because all the things that actually bring you joy in life. They’ve been told to not like,
yeah,
Cathy: they’ve been told to push away.
Cathy: So the whole modernizing of masculinity is making empathy and compassion and sensitivity good for all people.
Yeah,
Cathy: and, and you know, your friends have asked me in the past, I. Well, what will men get out of this? Right? What do men get out of this if they modernize and adapt? And the answer is their full selves.
Todd: Yeah. Deeper experiences, more aliveness. All the above.
Cathy: Aliveness. I love that word more aliveness. Do you use that word in men living?
Todd: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I, I. There’s a piece in Conscious Leadership Group, which was something I trained under, and they talked about integrity. And integrity is to be whole. It means integer.
Todd: Integer. Yeah. And a lot of CLG work and other personal growth work is what’s getting in the way of you being whole or making you feel really alive. Yeah. And part of the reason [00:11:00] why these boys and men feel so dead inside is because they’re not accessing all of their emotions. They’ve been cut off.
Todd: They’ve been cut off from themselves. So anyways, um, alright, so, okay, before we go to your blog, I just wanna say we have a Zen talk next Tuesday. Okay. Uh, Zen talk number 199 and then there’s a differently Wired Families Talk next Thursday then you and I are doing something in collaboration with men Living called men.
Todd: Marriage and menopause, navigating the change together. And that’s on Thursday, May 1st.
Cathy: So all these things that Todd are describing, all of these fall under our Team Zen community and, um, our team, Zen community is like a parenting virtual community. So anyone can join. It’s $25 a month, you know, cancel any time, but you have access to a q and a with Todd and I, which is, that’s what a zen talk is.
Cathy: And all of these micro communities, groups of people who are, um, dealing with similar. Um, challenges or issues. And then we’re gonna, we do these like kind of special presentations [00:12:00] that are at night and this menopause one was born out of Todd and I discussing menopause and me really wanting Todd to understand the change that I’m going through and.
Cathy: Todd and I discussed how important it is if you are in partnership with a woman who is anywhere in her forties and fifties to understand, to like, know what’s changing in her body. I mean, first and foremost, women should understand,
Todd: and
Cathy: a lot of women don’t, and a lot of women don’t. But then if you have a partner, you don’t, you know, for them to have kind of a, an understanding of what’s going on with you like.
Cathy: This is a really basic thing. This is not like a clinical thing, but Todd can’t stand that the fan is on when we go to bed. Like he doesn’t like it and he puts all these pillows over his head and I think that, and understandably, ’cause it can, it bothers your eyes or something, right? Yeah. It dries my eyes out and I get cold.
Cathy: You get, he gets cold, right? And so I, you know, before it was just like, I want the fan, he doesn’t. We’ve kind of come to this agreement where [00:13:00] we now go to bed with the fan off. But if I wake up in the middle of the night really hot because I’m menopausal, perimenopausal right now, it’s an understandable reason why I’d want the fan on.
Cathy: I’m not trying to give him gritty eyes. Well, two
Todd: things. One is you can put the fan on at the beginning of the night, sweetie. I don’t care. I know,
Cathy: but I’m trying to like find that in stop trying
Todd: place. Stop trying. Just put the fan on and I can adjust. Uh, the second thing is I listened to a few podcasts on menopause that you sent to me, and I’m guessing a lot of the men and women don’t even know the difference between menopausal and perimenopausal.
Todd: True. Um, so anyways, those are some of the things that we’ll be discussing. And then we have a few other things coming up in May and even early June that we’ll talk about later. But, uh, join teams at. It’s a, it’s an awesome community. It’s awesome. Yeah. Alright, so you wrote a blog called, uh, what was it called?
Todd: Three words.
Cathy: Choose Your Three Words.
Todd: Okay. And what, what drove you to think about writing this?
Cathy: Um, I was thinking about that there are [00:14:00] these words that kind of are like. Symbols or ways that I balance myself when I’m really struggling. Um, and I, you know, I kind of write about in the first couple of paragraphs that I see words and I feel words like really intensely I see dead people and I don’t see dead people.
Cathy: Okay. But I do see words and they, and certain words had vibes for me, which is why I’m always, um, not always, but sometimes when Todd chooses a certain word, I push back because I’m like, that word doesn’t fit. What we’re talking about or it feels too harsh or what. And then
Todd: I say something like, well, you know what I mean?
Cathy: And then I say, I do, but still the word. Yeah. But anyway, so there are three words that I have used for years and years and years. They’re, this is not new and they hold up under every circumstance. Okay. There’s like never a time that these words don’t work for me. If I’m struggling, if I’m not sure what to do next, if who I wanna be in a relationship, if Todd and I are arguing how I am as a parent, they hold up.
Cathy: So the reason I wanted to share them with [00:15:00] people is because. I feel like that can stabilize us during nons stable times.
Todd: As you navigate, uh, finding the right words, you did a pop culture reference of the finding of the words you remember what, what pop culture reference you threw in the York. I think I
Cathy: talked about the macro data refinement team in severance.
Cathy: Macro data refinement,
macro data refinement, macro data refinement, macro data refinement, macro data refinement,
Cathy: macro data refinement.
All right.
Cathy: Some say data. Some say data. Yeah. Crito, Tata,
Todd: macro data or whatever, micro data.
Cathy: Um, but yeah, they, their job is to look at numbers and to feel the numbers.
Todd: And your job is to look at words and feel the words.
Todd: You
Cathy: got it.
Todd: And that’s a wonderful gift of yours that, um, I don’t. Have nor really wanna have.
Cathy: Well, I’m gonna share my three words if you have, if you get my Zen parenting moment on Friday, that’s my substack. You can subscribe and get it every Friday. So every time [00:16:00] Todd and I talk about it, you’ll already have read it.
Yeah.
Cathy: All you have to do is scroll below and subscribe. But I’m gonna share them here too. But do you have words as well?
Todd: No.
Cathy: Well, you, you’ve gotta have words. You like, what, what words do you like?
Todd: Well, you’re catching me off guard. Um, I don’t know. Okay. I like the word, uh, that I learned in sophomore year of, uh, high school Spanish class, and it means to work and it’s traba haba.
Cathy: I know you like the sound of that Traba haba, but that’s a surface word that you just like to say. It’s like
Todd: some injunctive, some subjunctive. Tense of to work tra haba, sweetie.
Cathy: Got it. Yeah. But is that a word that grounds you and makes day, you feel? Because I love to work. Do you know what? You are a tra haba, Steve.
Cathy: I’m a tra haba. You’re a walking trabaja. And for
Todd: those who, uh, speak Spanish, maybe I’m screwing up the something in there. So if I am, let me know.
Cathy: Yes. But I, I’m sure we are. But as we’re talking, if a word comes to you like. I think the whole point of what I’m writing is that [00:17:00] sometimes we have to have some tools in place or some, um, I don’t wanna call ’em defense mechanisms, but some things that we hold onto to maintain ourselves.
Cathy: And the, the example that I give in the, um, in the substack that I wrote about three words is that. When, so Todd, um, loves to go through the car wash. I’m not quite sure why, but he got a annual pass to the car wash for all of our cars. So if we have, not for
Todd: all of ’em, sweetie. Just for, for, and
Cathy: I drive car.
Cathy: Okay. So for my car and his car, not for the girls’ cars, they just have to drive dirty cars. Um, but sometimes Todd and I’ll like go to yoga or go to eat or something and we’ll be like, wanna go through the car wash And it’s fun. So we will drive through and we get to go through the lane where nobody is, and the thing just goes up because we have the annual pass.
Cathy: We’re very cool. That’s right. Don’t you feel cool? I do. Um, so we go through the car wash and here’s the stressful part for me [00:18:00] is. Lining up the tires, um, to start having the car wash. Pull you through? Yeah. Okay. But once your tires are lined up, you put your car in neutral and it pulls you through, and then you can go through the car wash and not worry about driving.
Cathy: You just get to notice all the lights. And for some reason the car wash we go through is really pretty. There’s a lot of like colors, a lot of purples, a lot of purples, a lot of like little signs. There’s some mirrors. Like, it’s just kind of fun, right? I get to look around. But wouldn’t you also say it’s a little chaotic?
Cathy: It
Todd: is chaotic.
Todd: Uh uh. I love it. I actually feel very relaxed because all these things are happening around me, yet I’m still in my car and I feel protected from the chaos.
Cathy: Okay. Beautiful segue.
Todd: Thank you.
Cathy: I feel like my three words. Protect me from the chaos.
Todd: Oh, interesting.
Cathy: Okay. So I [00:19:00] going into neutral and like being pulled through the car wash.
Cathy: Doesn’t mean that I stop paying attention. I’m still paying attention, but I’m not overwhelmed by driving. I’m not overwhelmed by what I have to do next. I get to kind of let go and look around and notice and have more brain space to pay attention. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I also feel protected from the chaos ’cause I’m in the car, whatever may be.
Cathy: So my three words are my, that was kinda the whole point of the carwash analogy. We’re gonna do one at a time, by the way, just so you know. Okay. Did you understand the carwash analogy as you were reading it? Yeah. Okay. Because you just said, oh my gosh. Like it was new
Todd: information. Well, the fact that, um, yeah, but my, my example of the car protects me.
Todd: Did, did you say it in your blog about, I
Cathy: guess you’re right. Like I, the words,
Todd: the words protect you. The car protects me. Yes.
Cathy: And the car is a metaphor for words. The, exactly.
Todd: Okay, so we’re, we’re on the same page. So the car is my thing and words are your thing.
Cathy: Right. But the thing I was [00:20:00] writing, you’re making, I’m making a metaphor of that.
Cathy: So it’s not like I don’t feel protected by the car. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. The words are the car are the words.
Todd: The car are the words. That’s right. Yeah.
Cathy: There we go. Okay. So, um, so anyway, I, it was just kind of a, a way for me to kind of put together feeling protected and chaos because I think that we all know that every day we’re getting like crazy news and things that make us feel.
Cathy: Overwhelmed and, and incapable of doing anything to help and that we are like awash in, um, negativity and that we’re just like being hung out to dry. Like that’s how I feel a lot of times. So what I have to remember. Is that there is chaos around me, but if I stay in tune with these three words, I remember how to keep moving forward.
Cathy: Just like in the car wash being pulled through, you know, keep moving forward. We’re being pulled through. Um, I. That’s, that’s my goal. So my first [00:21:00] word, did you want me to start? Yeah. Say the first word. My first word happens to be the word you already shared. Integrity. There you go. My definition of integrity.
Cathy: Again, everybody ha it. It should have the same definition, but some people use different words. My mine is just like really being myself, like, you know, saying
Todd: alignment of purpose and behaviors and stuff like that, right?
Cathy: Yeah. Showing up as myself. Speaking is myself saying things that, I mean, um, you know, choosing really where I want to be, um, you know, acting, you know, asking for what I need.
Cathy: You know, you were talking about being whole and the whole idea of integrity and wholeness is that you are, you acknowledge all the pieces of yourself and you, you. Allow yourself to take care of yourself. Yeah. And you also, if you do that, then you can show up as yourself, like integrity. Integrity has all of these, like, you know, pieces around it.
Cathy: And some of the, I always give pop [00:22:00] culture examples. You know, Atticus Finch is obviously a man of integrity. Um, ice, you never
really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view. It decline inside of his skin. Walk around in it.
Cathy: That’s right. Thanks. Atticus. Atticus, he’s our guy. And then I also, um, think of someone like Forrest Gump as having integrity.
Cathy: ’cause he just walks through the world as himself.
She had got the cancer and died on a Tuesday. I bought her a new hat with little flowers on it.
That’s all I have to say about that. One more line. Okay. Which I love. Sometimes I guess there just aren’t enough rocks. I love that line. God
Cathy: says that one a lot and there aren’t, um, and Forrest is just no matter what situation he’s in, if he’s in the Army, if he’s with Jenny, if he’s in a bar with Lieutenant Dan, he’s just being forest and I’m not smart
[00:23:00] man.
But I know what love is. He sure does.
Cathy: And you know these two examples are obviously, um. Fictional characters, but they’re aspirational. Sure. They give us that vibe of what it means to live in integrity. Somebody
Todd: that
Cathy: we’re inspired
Todd: by Forrest Gump and Atticus Finch. Exactly.
Cathy: Did I put anybody else under that category?
Cathy: Uh,
Todd: let me look. I thought you may have. I thought
Cathy: I did too, but I can’t. Oh,
Todd: I think you have, uh, this person right here, which is a little bit, a slightly different, um, viewpoint. Okay. Is this everybody?
Ann took a cab. Tom’s in the trunk. Jerry’s on the roof. All right. Where to first
Cathy: your mother’s, but.
Todd: Who’s that?
Todd: Susan, the girl,
Cathy: Leslie Knope.
Todd: Was she under the integrity piece? I forget. Yes. Okay.
Cathy: Well, and I think she is a perfect example. That’s a funny, that’s when they drink the snake juice. Yeah, they do. Um, but the reason I love. Leslie is because she’s a very flawed human being. You know, she makes poor choices. She pushes people.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. She sometimes go in the wrong direction. [00:24:00] She’s hidden things from people before, but she always comes back around. She always figures it out. She takes responsibility, accountability, and she does that based on how much she loves her people. Boom. So that’s integrity.
Todd: Yeah. Love it. What was your second word?
Cathy: Uh, my second word was, uh, humility, which I. We’ve talked about this on the show a lot. It’s always been one of my favorite words and humility is the um, ability to know that you don’t know everything. And so it keeps you curious and it allows you to listen to people and not become so cynical, and it allows you to be able to apologize.
Cathy: Because you may have made a mistake. Um, it allows you to learn new things with some like wonder and awe, you know, have some humility about, we may not understand the big picture of what’s happening here. And also to engage with things on a real basic level. Level, like humility is understanding that what an ant is [00:25:00] doing every day trying to carry a piece of food.
Cathy: Is intense and hard and important, just like our lives are important. Have some humility about who you are in the world and the role you play.
Todd: Do you wanna hear some inspiration from the Buddhist monk and the white lotus?
Cathy: Yeah, so that’s the kind of, okay, go ahead. No, you
Todd: wanna set it up?
Cathy: No, I was just saying under that one I said that I was really pleased that this season of the white lotus, the, um, the whole message of it, well, I’ll let you play it.
Here we go. The cell identity. Chasing money. Pleasure chasing. Yeah,
everyone run from pain towards the pleasure, but when they get there only to find more pain,
you cannot outrun pain.[00:26:00]
Cathy: That’s when he is talking to Tim.
Todd: Yeah. I always love that. It’s, it’s so simple. We’re all chasing pleasure, right? Because it gives us all these chemicals that pump through our body, serotonin, whatever it is. And then when we get there, it’s so short-lived and we’re back where we started.
Cathy: Absolutely.
Todd: So I, I just thought that was a wonderful piece.
Cathy: It is. And I think that changes. Tim in that moment, he still needs to take his, he’s
Todd: got
Cathy: a
Todd: little more grown up to do after that scene.
Cathy: He got, he’s got a few days. Yeah. Um, you know, hard swallowing pills.
Todd: He’s got a know to to wash out the blender.
Cathy: Yeah. Oh God. Like, come on. Come on. I mean, we’ve all discussed the fact that they didn’t wash out the blender, but gross.
Cathy: Um, someone said that, you know, the reason that Tim didn’t wash out the blender is he hasn’t had to wash a dish in his entire life. Oh, interesting. Yeah.
There you go.
Cathy: And then the reason that Lockey didn’t wash out the blender is one of two things. Either he was, they didn’t allow him to have a pina colada.
Cathy: So he wanted to have [00:27:00] some of what was left over, or he thought that Saxon had made a protein shake and he was gonna have some of it too.
Todd: So, for the sake of the people who haven’t watched the finale, let’s just let it,
Cathy: I’m not gonna say anything. Let it be there. That’s, I didn’t, yeah, I don’t think I did.
Cathy: You didn’t give anything away. Okay. So. Also really what I was pointing out in the white lotus, that’s important too as far as humility. But the, what the monk says at the very end of the white lotus is there is no resolution. So humility is understanding that there is no final answer. There is no absolute right and wrong.
Cathy: There is no certainty. My book, um, my book, Zen Parenting, the whole gist of that book was talking to parents about living. Uncertainty and how uncomfortable it can be. But our ability to manage that allows us to parent in a way that’s more present and more connected. And it was so interesting that while I was writing that book, we went through Covid.
Cathy: Yeah. Because talk about an uncertain time. So [00:28:00] humility is that kind of openness that you don’t know everything. You don’t. And when people like are certain about things, this is this and this is, we were just talking about that today with music, you know. How some people are like, this is good music. This is bad music, this is good food, this is bad food.
Cathy: You don’t know everything. You have opinions that’s different.
Todd: Well, and that’s so interesting, and you know, we’re about to make a segue I guess, but any rock critic, their job is to criticize or appreciate music and we hold them up to a regard. That is influential. When should they really be influential?
Todd: It’s one person’s opinion on the quality of a song. Or a musician. And cut. Where we got there today is we’re talking about Backstreet Boys. Mm-hmm. And critically, you know, I don’t know how many great Rolling Stones articles are talking about the depth and the magnitude of Backstreet Boys, but how does it make you feel when you hear it?
Cathy: Right. And that’s all I care about with music is, and that’s a [00:29:00] place that’s taken me a long time to come because I am someone who always liked pop music. I, I love other types of music too, and I love classic rock and a lot of things that would be more critically acclaimed. Um, but I love pop music and I used to be more embarrassed of that.
Cathy: And now I’m like, that’s insane. Uh, ’cause first of all, everybody thinks they know this song. Everybody sings it, everybody loves it. It’s become like an a classic. Right. And why do you like it? ’cause of the way it makes you feel? Makes me
Todd: feel good.
Cathy: Right. And so, and you probably have heard it in different points in your life where you were at a wedding or you were, you know, having a good time.
Cathy: And so it brings you memories.
Todd: This, this is totally random. Uh, I. I saw a YouTube clip and it was Tarantino talking about some of his favorite movies and he said one of his favorite set of movies is the Toy Story
movies. Yeah, yeah.
Todd: And you think of Tarantino Violence and all this other stuff. He’s like, what he did say was though he never watched Toy Story four and he never Will.
Todd: And he says it [00:30:00] could be a perfectly wonderful movie.
Cathy: He just wanted it to be there’s to stop there.
Todd: You. The end of Toy Story three. It’s perfect. Is perfect. I know. Um, and I just thought that was interesting.
Cathy: So can I comment on that? As long as we’re in a pop culture? Sure. Part now is that, I can give an example ’cause you said, should we really listen to the rock critic?
Cathy: Because it’s just their opinion. Sure. Very true, but they also have a very educated opinion. Correct. Because they know a lot about music, the history of music, what inspired what, what it takes to write a certain song. Good point. All that kind of thing. Okay. So it doesn’t mean we have to agree with the rock critic, but there is a sense of gravitas to what they’re saying.
Cathy: They’ve dedicated their
Todd: life to
Cathy: music. Music and influence and where and what it takes to write good music. Yeah. You know what I mean? So. That is true. Now what I will say, and I will have the exact same experience, I really wanted to bring this up, um, about Yellow Jackets. ’cause I watched, you know, last week I was talking about how I was a little [00:31:00] disappointed in this season, season three.
Cathy: And I’ve been really, I talk about Yellow Jackets to everybody and I just wanted to be like, yeah, I don’t think this se this season was as good. Um, and so LA yesterday Todd and I finally watched the finale. It, it came out on Friday and. The finale. Was pretty good. It almost hit it. And the reason it almost hit is, and I was kind of annoying while we were watching it, but the very beginning of the episode was old school yellow jackets.
Cathy: I was like, that’s it. That’s the tone, that’s the feel. I can feel it. And then there were scenes that were so bad, they were just either poorly written or poorly acted. And I kept saying, Todd, this is so bad. And then all of a sudden the scenes at the end and the song they use at the end is so good. Do you remember what they used at the end?
Cathy: Uh. Living on the edge Yes. Is perfect. Yeah. You know, and it was so, so, I was like, this is it. And so my point is, is that I’m watching that through a pop culture lens. I’ve watched a lot of shows. I know the tone of shows and, and I don’t mean [00:32:00] like, because I say it, it’s right. I have enough humility to understand that other people may not have liked the episode, but I was like, I can feel what’s good and bad in this show.
Cathy: I can feel where it’s hitting and where it’s not hitting. And I think people. You know, most people who watch TV and listen to music, you, you can feel that, you know, you’ll like a song, but you won’t like the bridge or you’ll, you know, like you can kind of like come in and out where you like realize what’s good and what’s not.
Cathy: And then there are some shows that are, I. Perfect all the way through. Meaning they keep the tone that acting’s good. Like the thing that keeps coming in my head is like Friday Night Lights, like that TV show had such a tone that everybody hit all the time that I never thought about that I was watching tv.
Cathy: You know what I mean? And there’s lots of other shows. I think severance, like severance is like that as well. We,
Todd: we also watched a show last night that had a wonderful music gold drop.
Cathy: Are you talking about love on the spectrum
when you come into home? I [00:33:00] dunno. When together,
Todd: when I think, uh, we did a podcast on that series, Uhhuh, um, whatever, a year ago, whenever that was.
Todd: We’re watching season three and it’s so good. It’s one of my favorite shows I’ve ever seen. It is
Cathy: Todd has, has joy on his face the whole time and that. That song comes in. ’cause Connor, one of the, um, participants in the show, he meets a girl he really likes and he’s like, I feel like we should just do a music drop of Cats.
Cathy: The cradle, like right here. And of course Kian, who is the producer and director of the show. So good. All right, let’s go to the third pillar, last one. Not a pillar, it’s the third word. It’s a word. So I’ve done integrity, humility, and then the last one is compassion. Okay. So compassion is to me, all of all three of these are action, but compassion is like a huge action for myself to have compassion toward myself when I’m not.
Cathy: Uh, when I don’t make a great Choi choice, when I have a Leslie nope moment, you know, where I’m like, okay, I’m not going in the right direction and realizing that I can, you know, [00:34:00] double back and get back in alignment. And, um, also for other people when they’re struggling, like there are people, you’re gonna run into people throughout your day who may have gotten bad news or.
Cathy: Or, you know, dealing with a health crisis or are just mad about something that’s happening in the world. And not everybody is gonna be in a great place and having compassion for them and not thinking you’re the center of the world and that they need to entertain you with their happiness all the time.
Cathy: Right. Um, we have to have some compassion for other people’s experiences. So, um, and that is the. The word that is really helpful to me. All of them are helpful in relationship, but compassion is really helpful. ’cause sometimes I really would just wanna be right. Um, and I really just want people to do things the way I said to do them.
Cathy: And
Todd: I love being right. I know. Me too. I love it when people do things they tell them to do. I know,
Cathy: me too. It’s the best. But compassion is understanding that this person experiences the world a little differently. And this works with humility and integrity too. Sure. You know, and that we have to. We have to [00:35:00] get out, jump out of ourselves, and have an understanding of what other people are experiencing.
Cathy: So, integrity, humility, and compassion for me are my guideposts. They are my, um, neutral as I go through the, um, car wash. Mm-hmm. Like they allow me to be in chaos but not feel so ungrounded. Um, because if we do, if we’re not sure who we are or what we’re doing or what our values are, um. It can be really disrupting every day.
Todd: Um, we didn’t play my pop cultural reference, actually. Your pop cultural reference for compassion.
Cathy: I had a few,
Todd: well, I, I, I wanna do this one.
Cathy: Okay.
Who’s made a difference in your life? Know a lot of people, but a lot of people who have allowed me to have some silence, and I don’t think we give that gift very much anymore.
I am very concerned that our society is much more interested in [00:36:00] information than wonder in noise rather than silence. Wow. You think
Todd: that relates today? Geez. So in case you don’t know who that is, that’s Mr. Rogers and just his voice. My goodness. He’s my compassion icon, and he probably gave that interview to.
Todd: Charlie Rose 35 years ago, and it’s 1000 times more true than it was back then.
Cathy: He is, he was way, way ahead of his time and absolutely essential for his time and needed in every time. Yeah, and I think that there is the things I write about or speak about, um, a lot of ’em that were universal principles.
Cathy: Nothing that I came up with on my own. But a lot of it I can reflect back to him. Yeah. You know, like it was something either I heard from him or you know, part of his integrity or something I learned and they’re reflected his way of being is reflected in a lot of, um, you know. Like Buddhism [00:37:00] or, um, just a value system of honoring others and being there for others and compassion.
Cathy: So he’s my compassion icon, as is my girl, Dolly Parton.
Todd: Yeah. I couldn’t find a good quote on her, unfortunately.
Cathy: Sweet. You don’t have to play a quote. She’s a singer. I
Todd: know. But we’re talking about, I mean, is there any song that you can think of that would be really encapsulate compassion?
Cathy: Hmm. I don’t know.
Cathy: I just like her voice. But what I, I would say about Dolly Parton is what I’ve watched her do because, you know, I’ve grown up with her and watched her in many stages of her life, is be both fun herself, um, you know, connected to people and also very wise, but very gentle, not a heavy handed kind of wisdom.
Cathy: And she, you know, she builds libraries, she speaks up for groups. Um, you know, like she’s. She’s just a wonderful, compassionate woman.
Todd: You ready for a clip?
Cathy: Sure.
Please [00:38:00] don’t take him just because you can.
Your beauty is beyond Compare with Flaming Locks of Bob and Hair with I Ever. Skin and eyes of Al.
Cathy: Is this your most popular song? Um, I probably think nine to five is her most popular song. Jolene is like, you know, it’s a classic.
Yeah.
Cathy: Um, you know, code of many colors is a classic.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Um, she’s got a lot of songs.
Todd: So Any closing clo closing thoughts about your blog? Did you
Cathy: come up with any words that you really like?
Todd: Just Traba.
Cathy: What about, um,
Todd: what about Bob?
Cathy: I, there’s words you love. That I’m not, I can’t think of like you love, um, I’m trying to think of CLG. You like to say above or below the line?
Todd: Yeah. It’s just jargon to do my own personal growth work.
Todd: But, you know,
Cathy: that’s not really a word.
Todd: Right.
Cathy: But that is a system that has, you know, [00:39:00] a, a. An explanation of how we show up in the world, and you use it a lot, and I’m not really even making fun of you. I think it’s a guidepost for you. Mm-hmm. You’ll be like, I don’t know if I was above the line or below the line there, I’m still assessing it.
Cathy: And just that ability to have self-awareness and assess, I think is really good. For sure. You know? Yeah.
Todd: I have certain tools in my toolbox and I’m sure if I spent the next day thinking about, okay, what words really mean or matter, but I can’t come up with. Come up with them off the top of my head, I am gonna, because I just said, what about Bob?
Todd: I’m gonna say my word is Mm
mm Ooh. Mm
Cathy: mm
Cathy: Is eating corn. Hmm. What’s he eating?
Todd: He’s eating a corn on the couch. Yeah. It’s like,
mm. Mm mm.
Todd: We should do a pop Turing. Um, what [00:40:00] about Bob? He and Richard Dreyfus were not. Real tight on that set. Let’s just say that like he What about Bob, or what about Bob? Bill Murray truly tried to just annoy the piss outta Richard Dreyfus. I know, and it worked.
Cathy: I know. Yeah. I love, what about Bob? Don’t get me wrong, but it’s also not the most comfortable movie to watch.
Todd: Not at all. Very uncomfortable. Favorite part is that Richard Dreyfuss character. Dr. Leo, Marvin, Dr. Leo. Marvin. He gets up, caught in his throat and uh, Bob dislodges it by giving him knee drops to the back. To his back. Yeah, his back. Yeah. And then everybody is Richard Jarvis’s family. Um, run to Bob. Runs to Bob, and he’s like, I just never gave up hope.
Todd: Meanwhile, Richard, Dr. His back is broken
Cathy: anyways. Think and Anna.
Todd: Yes.
Cathy: Um, so. What I, what I would say about that movie, the reason it’s so uncomfortable is I know we’re made to not like Richard Dreyfus because he doesn’t have a lot of humility and he doesn’t have a lot of integrity. Like they build it where you want to support [00:41:00] Bob, but it is all very unfair.
Todd: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess so. Don’t you? But he gets in his own way.
Cathy: Um, Richard Dri Yeah, he does. Yeah. But Bob ends up, oh, I don’t wanna ruin it for anybody. But doesn’t he end up marrying his sister or something like that? I don’t remember. Yeah. At the very end, he marries, he ends up with Dr.
Cathy: Marvin’s sister. Yeah, that
Todd: could
Cathy: be
Todd: right.
Dr. Marvin, guess what? Who? I sail. I’m a sailor. I sail. Is this a breakthrough? I mean,
Todd: uh, it’s great. A great movie. It’s funny, I, we played a bunch of movies for my daughters and nieces in Seattle. And, um, what about Bob? Uh, hit for Claire? No. Did she like it? Yeah.
Todd: Everybody else left the room, but Claire’s like, this is a really funny movie. So Claire, sometimes she listens to this podcast. I appreciate that you appreciate. What about Bob?
Cathy: And we, we should watch it together again. See? What about Bob is a building movie? Like you gotta watch it more than once, just like plain trades on movies.
Cathy: Maybe insert
Todd: that in, in, in addition to not, instead of to the planes, trains, and automobiles, [00:42:00] uh, viewing.
Cathy: Hey, move to the left a little bit. So everybody who’s watching on YouTube can see your poster ’cause you got a PTA poster back there. Oh, there it is. Yep. Oh, nope. Your microphone’s in the way. Oh, there it is.
Cathy: And then we got midnight mass. So if you’re watching on YouTube, we, Todd and I have, uh, redecorated our podcast office ’cause there’s things happening in here and, um, Todd’s got, basically, I think everything that’s behind him now kind of is representative of him. That’s right. The door is Pink Floyd, uh, R 2D two B.
Cathy: That’s there too. Yeah. But, so that’s it for, uh, choose your three words. So anybody listening, choose your words or choose your system or do something that will help you. Be calmer in the chaos and remember who you are because don’t allow, there was this thing that my dad had in his bar area downstairs, and I know it’s a swear word, but, [00:43:00] um, it wa it said, don’t let the bastards get you down.
Cathy: I. I don’t think
Todd: bastards is a swear word, sweetie.
Cathy: Well, isn’t it though, it’s
Todd: not a nice word, but you can say it on network tv. No problem. Okay.
Cathy: Well, and I think it’s from a movie or from a political fig. I don’t know who said it, look it up. But he had it up in our, um, downstairs and he, that was just very Mike Chris Christofferson.
Todd: Really That’s what I just YouTubed it. And it says, there’s a song he wrote called Don’t Let the Bastards Get You Down.
Cathy: I mean, that wouldn’t be shocking because my dad sounds very
Todd: John Cassius.
Cathy: I know. But, um, he, but anyway, so just, just keep that in mind.
Todd: Um, I want
Cathy: to
say hold the power and the money
Todd: voice.
Todd: Um, I wanna thank Jeremy Kraft. He’s been supporting Zen parenting since day one. That’s 15 years ago. Um, and if anybody lives in Chicago and they have any home improvement projects, give him a call, 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800 or you could just check his website out, uh, aco.net [00:44:00] and anything else, sweetie? No,
Cathy: I enjoyed
Todd: this.
Todd: All right, let me just do the outro music and, uh, keep trucking. See you next week.
