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Todd: Do, do, do. Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number 809. While listen Zen Parenting Radio because you’ll feel outstanding and always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s wellbeing is a parent’s self understanding.
Todd: Uh, we’re not sure what we’re gonna title today’s show. Oh, yeah. I was gonna say we don’t, we do
Cathy: know what we’re gonna
Todd: talk about. We’re just not sure of the title. Yeah. Um, and it’s either gonna be humility or masculinity or survivor or
Cathy: caring for each other, caring for each other, or responsibility.
Todd: So talk about all those things.
Todd: We’ll see where we go with this conversation, but it’s gonna be good. But first I just wanna give a quick plug to my sweethearts. Fifth book, restoring Our Girls, how Real [00:01:00] Conversa Conversations Shape our Lives, shape our daughter’s lives, help them with teen challenges, and remind them that they matter.
Todd: Forwarded by Dr. John Duffy.
Cathy: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Forwarded, did, forwarded, did, did, did. Um, I. So maybe we’ll talk about your book a little bit today because I’m sure you have some humility and some responsibility. Responsibility talk in there.
Cathy: Well, one thing I will say is that, um, if you follow our social media, either on Instagram or Facebook or Threads or Blue Sky, we’re kind of on a bunch of things.
Cathy: But you will see that, um, I’m doing a lot of book club talks, like big book clubs, you know, like where people have to register and all that kind of thing. Um, organizations are. Organizations are organizing them. Mm-hmm. Because that’s what they do. Yeah. And uh, basically they ask the people who are coming to read the book and then I come in and they ask questions,
Todd: is this virtual or is this in person?
Cathy: It’s virtual. Um, we, you and I are actually doing something in person on April 9th, I believe. Yeah. And [00:02:00] Deerfield. Yeah. So if you’re from the Chicago land area, Todd and I are gonna be. Going to Deerfield to talk about, uh, friendships and our children’s friendships. But so scroll below if you wanna see more about that.
Cathy: But the things I’m doing are virtual. Like I have one coming up at the end of, um, March. I just did one last week. And so if that’s something interesting to your smaller book club, ’cause it can be smaller, I and um, or to your organization, let me know and I’ll do it virtually. Happy to chime in. And answer any questions.
Todd: Um, and I also wanna just, uh, we’re about to do a Zen talk in about an hour. Yep. Um, and this, we’re recording this a little bit earlier, but if you’re interested in joining a community of parents that are trying to be the best they can with, uh, their parenting, and, uh, please join us.
Cathy: We’re actually talking about, uh, the Netflix show, adolescents today.
Cathy: Um, on our Zen talk. We are, uh, so basically it’s just like a time where we get together and. Uh, the people who are there ask questions and then we share. And it’s a community. It’s like if you are kind [00:03:00] of, if you would like people to talk to about the challenges you’re having or you just like listening to people’s experiences, this is, this is perfect for you.
Cathy: And
Todd: I’m, uh, also, uh, kind of re-energizing our raising healthy sons. Micro community within Team X Uhhuh. So if there’s any, uh, moms or dads out there that want to have conversations about raising healthy sons, please consider joining us.
Cathy: And I have a women’s group within Team X, so if you’ve always kind of wanted a women’s community, we talk about things that are specific to us.
Cathy: Um, that’s, you
Todd: can find that in Team X too. So please join. And I want to thank, uh, Kelly from Western Springs for joining Teams End. She joined. Thank you Kelly. Uh, just a little while ago, so I feel compelled to have you set up the survivor clip ’cause I think it’ll be a good way to start the show.
Cathy: Sure. So, um, this show is coming.
Cathy: We’re taping this show a few days before it comes out. So. If you’re listening, I will say last week there was a survivor episode that aired, um, that got a lot of promotion before it came out. Like everybody was wondering why [00:04:00] Jeff Popes actually started crying for the first time in his 48 seasons of Survivor and it,
Todd: the first thing is I didn’t even know Survivor was still on this show on the air really.
Todd: Yeah, because you know, back in the old days we would, we would go to channel two, channel five, channel seven, channel nine, and Channel 32. Uh, that was Fox or No, uh, survivors on CCBs. So Channel cbs, channel two. Mm-hmm. Now I barely ever turn on Hulu Live, which is our live tv. We, we just remember a show we wanna watch.
Todd: Like last night we watched somebody somewhere. Uh, I just never am flipping through channels anymore. Yeah,
Cathy: so anyways, you miss the flip. I miss flipping channels. I do too. I miss cable for that reason, because yes, sometimes I just go and I’d be like, what’s on TNT? What’s on, you know, lifetime, what’s on TBS?
Cathy: And usually there was some movie in the middle that you could kind of join in. But you know, now we’re just more, um, literal. We’re like, this is what we want
Todd: to watch. And the fact that we watch, uh, [00:05:00] Netflix without commercials or HBO or mm-hmm Hulu, um, part of me misses commercials. Not that I wanted want, like to watch commercials, but it was an opportunity to pause, to go get a drink of water.
Todd: To talk to your family about what it is you’re watching, and now it’s just now you can’t even, you gotta like have the remote close by. Otherwise, the next episode happens in like five seconds. And complaint, I’ve got a big
Cathy: complaint for all these companies. Don’t move the show. Up into the corner and start another show before the show is done.
Cathy: Yeah, because sometimes like on
Todd: weight load
Cathy: is, they’re like, um, watch, they’ll give you like the update Yeah. For next week. Yeah. Or a behind the scenes,
Todd: a preview or behind the scenes it’s, and
Cathy: all of a sudden you’re watching the show and then that little box goes up to the corner and then they’re like, okay, this show’s gonna start.
Cathy: I’m like. Everybody relax and then I’m like flipping buttons and like trying to get it back. And then all of a sudden I’m starting it over and, and it’s
Todd: all with the idea that they’re trying to keep us, keep you there watching. So like
Cathy: I.
Cathy: The [00:06:00] psychology of it, but it’s also really annoying. Yeah. And, um, stop annoying. Cathy, stop. Hulu. Stop. Are you listening? Yeah. Um, so anyway, back to Survivor. Um, the episode, basically the reason it, it was getting so publicized is because there’s a girl named Eva on this season and she was having a really strong reaction to one of the, what do they call them?
Cathy: Competitions. Competitions. She actually. One or, or was able to finish it. But she was getting really worked up and while she was doing it, she was kind of screaming and having a real strong reaction and her teammates were trying to help her, but she was really overwhelmed. She was flooded, and then even when she finished, she was still screaming and she was flooded.
Cathy: So her teammates kept trying to hug her and hold her and say, you’re fine, you’re fine, you’re fine. Which we know doesn’t help if someone is overwhelmed. It turns out that she had. Told a man who was no longer on her team, a guy named Joe, that she, um, she had autism and that even [00:07:00] though many things, she had learned coping tools.
Cathy: Uh, so it was not obvious to people. She still at times could get flooded and cycle. And not be able to get out of it without help. She told this guy Joe, but he wasn’t on her team and they have all these rules in Survivor where you can’t go like help another team for obvious reasons. But Joe was really trying to make eye contact with her and help her because he could see that this was what she was talking about and she needed help.
Cathy: Thank goodness Jeff Ropes, the guy who’s you know, in charge. Am I saying his name right? Propt? I have
Todd: no idea. It’s
Cathy: like a B next to an st and that’s very hard to say. Yeah. Joe, Jeff, what’s up with that? Yeah, Jeff P. Yeah. Will you figure that out? He’s like on severance. Jeff P. So anyway, Jeff finally said, Joe, do you need to go give Eva a hug?
Cathy: And he said Yes. So they kind of crossed that boundary. He helped calmer down. And the reason I wanted to talk about it, it was less about the survivors of it all, or the fact that Jeff cried. It’s that Joe is this like. Big, like kind of, I think they said he’s a fireman, like he’s a big burly guy, got a [00:08:00] lot of tattoos, um, older, like 45, and this girl’s like 24 and he has children, blah, blah, blah.
Cathy: And he, what he did in helping her calm down and in, in pushing the boundaries in that show, like recognizing that someone’s wellbeing is more important than this game was what I kept saying to Todd, that’s masculinity right there. Not, it’s not just about his appearance. I just feel like that helps. Yeah.
Cathy: Because people, the visual. Yeah. But what he did is he cared and he was powerful because he cared and he was calm, and he helped her feel secure in a way that a lot of women don’t experience. Mm-hmm. With men where there’s like an insecurity or I’m uncertain, I’m gonna be kept safe here. And he had this opportunity.
Cathy: And it just was really beautiful. Like if you watch it, it made me cry.
Todd: And what was funny is in the video, and I’ll link to it so you can watch it. It’s, are you gonna play any part of it? Yeah, I’m gonna play a part of it. But, um, her, [00:09:00] before Joe gets involved, her teammates are like patting her on the shoulder, telling Andre, like, telling her she’s gonna be fine.
Todd: Kind of hugging her passively and then. When Joe finally gets permission or whatever to get over there and, and support her, he, he kind of hugs her in a, I don’t know what, what word would you use to, to describe,
Cathy: um, in a way that grounds her? Yeah,
Todd: grounds her. Like, I think she, she’s like, like flailing.
Cathy: I think she told him, this is what I need in previous episodes, like behind the scenes, like it’s not something that was filmed, at least that I’m aware of.
Cathy: But she had said, this is something that happens and this is what I need when this happens. So he, ’cause he said to her, we’re gonna breathe. Mm-hmm. Um, we’re gonna call him. He’s like, let’s do a hug. And then she said, hold my hand. Yeah. And he did that eye contact, eye contact, and he’s like, we’re gonna breathe.
Cathy: You’re okay. And then she said, he said, you need another hug now. She said Yes. So he kind of knew, it’s like what parents know Yeah. About their kids. Right, right. Like I know with my girls when something gets really big or it’s. Exacerbated or it’s just they feel outta control with each of them. They need different [00:10:00] things, right?
Cathy: You know, either for me to keep talking, stop talking. It just depends on the kid. It’s not all the same. But in this situation with a girl who had dealt with this because she, you know, she already had a diagnosis of autism, she, this is something she knew could happen. She already had some tools available.
Todd: All right, so let’s hear a little bit of it.
Emotionally struggling. Clearly there was a connection with a former tribe mate and Joe. I felt it was okay for me to suggest they hugged and I could tell everybody agreed. But Joe, the other thing that’s happening there is relationships are being revealed. You clearly have a relationship with Eva that matters to you.
So why was it important for you, Joe, to reveal part of your game and go give comfort to somebody who is on the other tribe? Jeff, you know, I. I want my kids watching to be, I’m gonna be the man I want them to be and the people I want them to be regardless of the game. And that’s what you do. That’s who I am.
So if it exposes, it exposes, but she was in need and I would want someone to treat my daughter that way. [00:11:00] You, him this game.
Cathy: For sure. For sure. Joe. Nice job, Joe. That’s right Joe. See it is a game that, it literally is a game on tv. And you know, Todd and I were talking about this on our way back from yoga a little bit ago, and he said, life is kind of a game.
Cathy: Like we can, sometimes we make things so big where we’ll be like, I can’t do that. You know, there were people there, or I’m not gonna show up and say anything. What? What will other people say? And the truth is, who are you? How do you wanna show up who, meaning for people, not just visually and, you know, look cool, but like, what is your value system?
Cathy: Mm-hmm. What is, and, and so one thing that I, that’s so important about that, it’s like a. I feel like people should go back and watch the whole thing. It’s like eight minutes long. Yeah. Because you see her start to, you know, have a episode is what she calls it, and him help and, you know, kind of resolve.
Cathy: Right. Um, and I, I kind of feel like we should, I. Um, share these kind of clips with our [00:12:00] children. Like, uh, this is kind of like my creative, you know, one of the things I talk about restoring our girls is have creative ways of, and I’m putting this in air quotes, teaching your children instead of always trying to lecture them or whatever, send them interesting things like send them things in, in culture that are meaningful to you.
Cathy: Like, wow, look at what this person did for this person. You’re gonna have to prep ’em
Todd: though, because it is six minutes long and our kids are used to 30 seconds long.
Cathy: I bet by the time this this podcast comes out. People will have cut into it and shortened it. And just, because right now it’s brand new.
Cathy: Yeah. So you can only get a long clip. I bet if you went onto Instagram or TikTok, you could find a shorter version of this, this survivor
Todd: experience. Well, and it’s funny, I actually shared it with a friend of mine whose daughter’s autistic mm-hmm. Uh, this morning, and it’s, there’s a whole piece in the middle that I don’t think we’re gonna share because it’s a few minutes long, but.
Todd: Uh, she just talks about the challenges, uh, and how she’s wired differently. Mm-hmm. And it’s just a wonderful reminder and our, it helps me slash us normalize autistic people.
Cathy: Well, and that she [00:13:00] said, I don’t think she goes, you know, after everything I’ve done and all the work I’ve done, she’s like, I don’t wanna feel bad, nor should anybody feel bad about needing help.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. And hers is very specific. Like her brain gets over, you know, gets flooded and she’s having a hard time calming down. And so she can connect that, you know, to her neurodiversity and she understands the tools she needs and the help she needs. But we all have versions of that, right? We all have versions of where we need grounding ’cause we’re really anxious or we need someone to give us a hug because we’re sad or we need, there’s nothing in that that is, that we should be ashamed of.
Cathy: That’s human.
Todd: I actually, I actually have that piece here. Okay.
Cathy: Go ahead.
And understand that this is something that I deal with with my autism, and everyone who has autism should not be ashamed to ask for help and ashamed to receive it. So thank you all for allowing this to happen, allowing him to come and help me and just supporting me in this.
Yeah.
Cathy: There you go. It’s [00:14:00] beautiful. And then Jeff Popes goes on to say, Jeff P goes on to say that he, the reason he’s, you wanna hear it? Oh sure. Go ahead
to play Survivor for anybody, but for you to come out here knowing something like this might happen, and then be brave enough to share your story because there is a young girl or boy just like you watching right now, going, Hey Mom.
Hey dad, now you got me. I’m a parent too. And I do see it and wow, this has never happened, but I see it too, and it’s why I love Survivor. I really do. I, I like that. You know, Joe May end up blindsiding you or you him, who knows, but in this moment it’s possible to have all of this work. Alright, hula. So,
Todd: it’s so funny, I, I love Jeff, but I feel like he cut himself off.
Todd: Like he started going there and, but
Cathy: Todd, he’s on tv. I’m not saying you should be [00:15:00] embarrassed, but he can’t completely fall apart when he’s taking care of the show. Exactly. They can
Todd: cut it in any way they want.
Cathy: I get it. I know. And you and I, I, I honor and applaud him. It’s because you do it, right?
Todd: You, you’re seeing yourself in here.
Todd: Of course I am.
Cathy: Mm-hmm.
Todd: 100%. And he kind of goes there and he cracks a little bit, which is wonderful. I just feel like for me, in those moments. Because it, because he said this has never happened. Right,
Cathy: right. He’s never, he’s never broken down. He’s
Todd: not used to this. Mm-hmm. And those moments are so far, like I had one big moment a month ago when we had to put our rabbit down and that was a mess for a good chunk of the day.
Todd: And I feel like I let it all out and I haven’t had anything close to sadness or tears since then, which is fine. But it’s just when those moments show up. And I’m talking to myself. I know. Let them go. Let them happen. Don’t, don’t. Collect yourself so quickly.
Cathy: Right. And that’s, and I agree with you in [00:16:00] real life, like I think that that is something you’ve been learning and and growing from.
Cathy: We don’t know what Jeff’s like in real life, he may cry all the time. Right. Like he, that may be a mo. See, ’cause I look at that, I could cry all the time. Totally true. I, so I need to stop myself. Yeah. I’m
Todd: making up a story about Jeff. Correct. Yeah. I don’t know.
Cathy: Yeah, you So, but to your point. What I’ll say big picture is his ability to say, I’m a parent too.
Cathy: And I feel this, that’s masculinity as well, because he’s feeling the caring and the, the connection and the depth of Survivor. Like, he’s like, this is why we do this. Because a lot of it is, it’s not just eating bugs and do people still eat bugs? I’ve watched Survivor in so long, probably. Um, you know, it’s not just the things that are about backstabbing people, it’s about, um.
Cathy: Caring for people and standing up for people and working as a team, like survivors got a lot of levels to it. So we loved that. And I just kind of feel like, you know, we, you and I talk a lot about gender and we, we talked about [00:17:00] adolescence, um, the show, um, you know, when it comes to raising 13-year-old boys.
Cathy: 9-year-old boys, 10-year-old boys, 15-year-old boys, doesn’t matter the age, but raising boys in this culture. And as we know, there is a lot of stuff out there on the internet and a lot of stuff out there on all the social media that is intending to red pill them, which the definition of that is to. Make them, it’s manosphere stuff.
Cathy: It’s like to make them believe that the reason their lives are difficult, it’s because of women. Mm-hmm. Or it’s because of immigrants, or it’s because it’s blaming the rest of the world, instead of recognizing that they have choices every day, every moment of how they wanna live their lives. Um,
Todd: so would that be a good transition to humility?
Todd: Because the opposite of humility is to blame and not take responsibility. Right.
Cathy: Absolutely. But let me finish that thought of what my point was in saying that is I feel like these are the kind of little clips or pop culture examples that we can be feeding to our [00:18:00] kids. Even. I know a lot of you may have like things at the dinner table, like we don’t have phones.
Cathy: I totally get that. We don’t do it either, but maybe to be like, I wanna take two minutes at the dinner table and show you guys this clip. Isn’t that amazing? Maybe you do it before bed, whatever, depending on what your rules are in your house, but. I, I feel like we have to, as parents be making an effort to demonstrate our value system too.
Cathy: And not just like, one of the biggest parts of the show adolescence was the fact that in episode four the parents finally have a sit down in their house and they’re crying and they’re talk, ’cause Jamie decides to plead guilty and so they recogni their son who killed this girl and they. Recognize.
Cathy: They’re like, how did we raise this person? Right. How
Todd: did this happen?
Cathy: How did this happen? How? Because, and the mom keeps, keeps saying, we made him, you know, and they started talking about it and he’s like, I got him all the things he wanted. He was in his room, we got him a computer, and he was in his room.
Cathy: And I thought him being in his room was safe. Mm-hmm. And [00:19:00] it’s sometimes we’re like, as long as my kid is in their bedroom, they’re safe. Well, what are they watching? What are they experiencing? And I know we can’t control all of that. You, you know, Todd and I have been talking for 15 years. We can’t control all of culture, but what’s in our control?
Cathy: Let’s show our kids things that demonstrate our values, not just in pop culture, but in our real lives. How we’re treating people, what we’re saying at the dinner table, how we’re, what are we role modeling for them? Are we trying to toughen them up and make them become assholes? But, sorry, I’m just gonna, I know this is a.
Todd: Non explicit. Joe, you’re, you’re, you’re making me do post-production edit. You have to really
Cathy: beep that out. That word. Well, I
Todd: don’t think I have to, but I think people can flag it saying this is supposed to be
Cathy: Oh, okay. Non explicit.
Todd: And then they could say, Hey, apple, don’t flag
Cathy: me. Don’t flag me.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Keep, don’t flag me.
Cathy: Okay. Then bleep me out. But. My whole point is, is that let’s, let’s give our kids something to strive for.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And, and show them what our family values [00:20:00] are. Okay. Todd, go ahead.
Todd: Um, well you, we woke up this morning thinking we’re doing a podcast on humility. Yeah. And I, honestly, my relationship with that word isn’t really good ’cause I always really confused it with humiliation.
Todd: Oh,
Cathy: interesting.
Todd: Um, and. It’s getting harder and harder after doing this every week for 15 years to come up with a new term for us to talk about. And I think over 15 years, I don’t know if we’ve ever really talked about humility. I’m sure we have. Yeah, we have through certain lenses, but we’ve never.
Todd: Dedicated a podcast to that word.
Cathy: Yeah. I think that might be true. We may not have a podcast that is called Humility, but I know we’ve talked about it because it, uh, you know, opposite of you, it’s one of my favorite words. Mm-hmm. When I’m writing, not only am I trying to have my own humility, but I talk about the importance of parental humility.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Because, um, you know, we can use the word humble, but there’s something about humble that feels so passive. Humility to me feels like. Understanding you don’t have all the answers and being open to new ideas [00:21:00] and living life with curiosity. I
Todd: actually just did a search, ’cause in Team Zen, you get this app and you can put it in the search box.
Todd: And I just typed in the word humility.
Cathy: When you say, explain that better, you said you get this app and you can put it in the search box. We have
Todd: an app called Circle.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: And you get, you get access to this if you join Teams in
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: So in it, there’s a search box and I’m like, humility, have we ever done?
Todd: Turns out. In 2018. Okay. Seven short years ago, we did a podcast called Humility and Pro Procrastination.
Cathy: Mm,
Todd: no, I, I have no recollection of that. Uh, we did a zen talk called Humility and Vulnerability are the true definitions of intimacy.
Mm.
Todd: Uh, we did a podcast 3 23, the process of what it means to have humility.
Todd: Um, giving up control. It says public shaming. Yeah. We’ve done a lot of things on humility. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah. So yeah, it shows up a lot. I have no idea. All right.
Cathy: And I think part of the reason that we started talking about humility this morning is there was some things, again, when you’re listening to this, so this will probably be news from last week, [00:22:00] but you know, there’s some things going on in our government where there’s some people who made some big mistakes and instead of saying, yes, this mistake was made.
Cathy: They’re using an old, uh, um,
Todd: me, me, defense mechanism. Defense
Cathy: mechanism of just deny everything.
Todd: Deny and blame,
Cathy: deny blame. I don’t know. You’re the bad guy, not me. It’s so old and hacky. Like I, we, we all know like it’s so, it’s so dumb and it’s, and we don’t even have to be like taking political sides here.
Cathy: Like Todd pointed out to me this morning when I was talking about this, he’s like,
Todd: it’s not good business for any politician to ever. Take accountability for a mistake.
Cathy: Except, and I get that and I get, we play with language around that, right? But it’s so dumb when we have the information right in front of us.
Cathy: If I
Todd: heard a politician take accountability, I’d be like, I wanna vote for that guy or that girl because she’s taking ownership over her stuff. That’s what I want for me, that’s what I want for our kids and for whatever reason, the system that they’re [00:23:00] in, they think that they’re that, that, that is political suicide.
Cathy: But I will say this experience from last week was extreme. Of course. Okay, so we’re not talking, I, I I don’t wanna do a both sides is right now, because we’re talking about like information that is being shared not in the, in an appropriate way, and that we all know what happened and we’re all getting this information very obvious
Todd: that there was a screw up.
Cathy: Exactly. And, and everybody’s deflecting, deflecting, deflecting. And I am like, God, it’s so, how do we teach our kids? To, to take responsibility and have humility when the people at the highest levels cannot even learn something that the whole, that their whole business is in shame and blame. Yeah. Or they don’t have shame shaming other people.
Cathy: And I, I see this, and again, this is why this connects to me, to the discussion about masculinity is because this whole like overpowering. I win no matter what. You suck, no matter what. It’s, it’s
Todd: [00:24:00] win at all costs.
Cathy: Well, it’s not only is it exhausting, it’s what’s the end game here like? There’s no, and, and I’m not even take it away from politics for a second.
Cathy: Like you’re having a discussion with your partner and you’re like. You know, and this happens a lot with people who have a lot of narcissistic tendencies where they’re like, I’m gonna win. You’re wrong. I’m gonna show you how you’re wrong, how you’re wrong. Well, that’s not true. ’cause you use this word, you know, like, people who like have no ability.
Todd: It goes back to when we’re six years old as guys and girls, uh, vulnerability, which is what we’re talking about mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is a weakness.
Cathy: Right. That’s
Todd: what we’re taught, right? It goes all the way back to. First or second grade,
Cathy: and we, we
Todd: cannot be vulnerable.
Cathy: Right. And we know, and again, this is not necessarily mainstream for everybody, even though it should be.
Cathy: We know that there has now been research done as we knew this before, but we always need the data and the research, right? Is that we know that vulnerability is actually the. First sign of strength. Mm-hmm. Because vulnerability is the ability to really see something, to recognize, an ability to learn, to [00:25:00] stay curious, and to take responsibility for your behavior.
Cathy: That takes strength. That’s that vulnerability in that way is like. Uh, we’ll, we’ll put it on something, um, a little more like pop culture and basic, which is like Eva in that clip that you played. That’s vulnerability. Sure. That’s owning who she is. Yeah. And saying, this is what I struggle with. Yeah. And this is what I do to maintain myself and, and I need to ask for help.
Cathy: Period. There’s a vulnerableness to that because now people know that about you. Sure. And there, but the ability to to own yourself in that way is, that’s power. Yeah. Now I understand many of us hearing that and looking at the world, we’re like, well, there’s a lot of people who get ahead who try to overpower.
Cathy: Yeah. They live in a fear state. They basically use fear,
Todd: scarcity
Cathy: mindset, the scarcity mindset to overpower other people. And yeah, it works. Sometimes it does, but it, it completely destroys your connections. It completely destroys communication. Um, there’s no intimacy in it. Nobody likes [00:26:00] you. You may have a power position, but it’s not like people are like, wow, what a great person.
Cathy: When you, you know, one of the, um. Things that I have had my students do, and I know a lot of professors have done this. Um, but it, and I think you guys even did it in men Living was Right, your own eulogy. Mm-hmm. You know, like, what do I want people to say about me when I’m no longer here?
Todd: Qualities.
Cathy: And you guys,
Todd: it’s not about
Cathy: being
Todd: brass and bold and conquering, I’ll tell you that.
Cathy: Yeah. And most people, even if they think that there may be, there may be no one who wants to write your eulogy. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Or speak it? Because if you were someone who went around stomping on people and trying to gain power and being king of the hill all the time, I, I don’t think a lot of people are gonna be showing up.
Cathy: Yeah. I think that there’s going to be a. Um, disregard. And
Todd: so just so, because, uh, I have struggled with the word humility uhhuh, I needed to define it. Okay. So I’m gonna do that in case there’s anybody else like me. They’re like, okay, what is that again? Okay. The quality of having a [00:27:00] modest view of one’s own importance mm-hmm.
Todd: It’s a good start. Recognizing that we’re always learning.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: That’s a good start. And being open to the perspective of others does not mean thinking less of yourself.
Cathy: No, does not.
Todd: But rather thinking beyond yourself.
Cathy: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Acknowledging strengths and weaknesses without arrogance or insecurity. So as we navigate through this thing called life, trying to parenting, trying to parent our younger people, like, I don’t know if there’s a more important word.
Cathy: I know. So if you don’t mind, I’m gonna bring something up. Let’s talk about yesterday. What I got frustrated at you about. Oh yeah. Do you
Todd: remember? Yeah. So I double parked outside of Chipotle. Okay. And, um. As I was closing the door, I said, um, you said, you’re like, I don’t think the food’s gonna be ready yet.
Todd: I’m like, goal to be ready. Well, I walked in there, it wasn’t ready yet.
Cathy: Can I back up a little more? Oh no,
Todd: not yet, sweetie. First you gotta back up the switch.
Cathy: Okay. Thank you. Back it up. So, first of all, and just like preface the story [00:28:00] this way. Todd and I, no, Skyler was gone. She was with friends Tyler or Tyler.
Cathy: Uh, Todd and I are going to get food. We’re in no hurry. Okay? We can, you know, it’s like six o’clock we can come home and eat. There’s no kid waiting for us. And I said, I’ll go with you and we can mail our, we, we voted. So we, you know, mailed our voting things, our ballots, and I said, and we’ll drop this off and then we’ll pick up our Chipotle, you know, like, we’ll go together.
Cathy: So I’m trying to like set the scene that there’s no emergency here. In Elmhurst, where we live, where the Chipotle is, there’s oftentimes parking spots right in front that are like 10 minutes or whatever, and it’s kind of like a tight, you’re kind of right before a stoplight. So double parking is not just like double parking anywhere.
Cathy: You’re really kind of blocking traffic, and I’ve never done that there. And it sounds like you have because, oh yeah. So we get there. There’s no 10 minute parking available. It’s dinner time. Everybody’s there. So Todd. Uh, double parks. And he says, um, and I said, [00:29:00] like he said the food’s, I said, the food’s not gonna be ready yet.
Cathy: And I’m sitting here thinking, why are we double parked here? And then not only that, but he runs over to a post office box mailbox, and I always say, post office box and drops off our ballots. And so he’s like doing errands. Oh yeah. I’m double parked. Yeah. I’m in the passenger seat. Right? And there’s people like trying to get around us.
Cathy: Okay, so now you can go.
Todd: Uh, the food wasn’t ready yet. The one thing from a defensive point of view, yes, please go ahead. Which is not a good point of view to navigate through. There’s no humility, a disagree, no humility.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: I wasn’t a hurry ’cause I was hungry. And I also blamed Chipotle because they just came out with a honey chicken.
Todd: Right. Which is really good.
Cathy: Right. So it’s their fault.
Todd: It’s their fault for having honey chicken. Right. And I was so excited ’cause I got the burrito I wanted
right. And I
Todd: was ready to eat that burrito and if I would’ve not double parked, I would’ve had to drive all the way around the block and inconvenience me for an extra 60 seconds sweetie.
Cathy: Right. Let’s
Todd: be honest, right? That’s 60 seconds of no eating the honey [00:30:00] chicken.
Cathy: Right.
Todd: Yeah. So anyways, Cathy, first of all, you didn’t even need the keys. You, you, you,
Cathy: I know. I didn’t need the keys. Oh, I wasn’t trying to get the keys.
Todd: Oh. I thought, oh, I, I thought you were like, I looked
Cathy: at you and I said, I’m not staying here.
Todd: Oh, okay. Do you remember I got up? No, because there was through a pane of glass and you’re 45 feet away from me.
Cathy: Oh yeah. So he, I could see him in Chipotle asking for our salad dressing and then still waiting for our bag. And I got out of the passenger seat, went around to the driver’s seat. I looked at him and I mouthed, I am not sitting here.
Todd: Yeah, I didn’t see that. I didn’t know what you were doing. And then he
Cathy: comes running out and he’s like, what are you doing? And I’m like, we should not be double parked here. This is so uncool. Like people are having to stop and like wait till the other car go. And my thing to Todd was like, Todd’s a lovely human.
Cathy: I know I always am prophesying these things, period. End of
Todd: sentence.
Cathy: But I really, he is, he’s such a big hearted person. My, my, my, uh, stretch for him would be, he still though. [00:31:00] Has a mindset of That’s a mouth.
Todd: I got a Mel Adams in me,
Cathy: his dad, I don’t, I don’t even wanna bring your dad into it, but yes, bring him in.
Cathy: But yes, I’ll let you bring your
Todd: dad. My dad, uh, was a fan of breaking rules
Cathy: and he was for a living,
Todd: a police officer. Okay. Very entitled.
Cathy: So, yes. So there’s this belief system that if Todd wants something, he’s gonna double park and go get it. And. I don’t live like that. That’s not a parking space. And if everybody did that, then we would have chaos, we’d have anarchy.
Cathy: And people are like, yeah, but I can do it. And that to me is shortsighted. That is like I, if there was an emergency, like we were driving, I was given birth to my third daughter in the backseat of our car, and Todd was driving a hundred miles per hour. I was literally like pushing her out in the backseat of our car.
Cathy: And I was like, go, you know, there are times. When I understand speeding and double parking and like there are emergencies, like there’s always room to break a rule. We were talking about breaking rules before too. There were, yeah, [00:32:00] there’s always space for that because sometimes it doesn’t make sense ’cause we’re talking about the health of someone, honey
Todd: chicken Chipotle.
Cathy: But we do not need. To double park and, and act as if we’re more important than everybody else. And I know that, um, like say you’re on a side street, Todd, and there’s no cars and you double park, big deal. Mm-hmm. Right. There’s no, it’s not about double parking. That’s
Todd: situational awareness.
Cathy: Exact. Thank you.
Cathy: Beautiful. It’s situational awareness because I of course have sped double parked down. I’m not perfect, but I also felt so uncomfortable sitting in that car while people are having to navigate. Our entitlement. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Like that’s, it’s just not it. Like if the girls were in the car, I wouldn’t want them to learn that.
Todd: Right.
Cathy: And you’re like, but they weren’t in the car. Would you do that if the girls were in the car? Of
Todd: course. Well, and I would also say I, I appreciate your honesty. I see it as an extra parking spot. Now, if there was, I know, I know, I understand. It’s not okay, but [00:33:00] if there was. If a car was already doing what I was doing.
Todd: ’cause that does happen. You’re like, nobody ever does this. That’s not true. People do do that. Okay. When that happens, I’m like, oh, bummer. They got the, they got the fifth parking spot.
Wow.
Todd: And I would never park in front of them. ’cause like that’s a little too much. You’re
Cathy: like close to the stoplight then,
Todd: right?
Todd: Yeah. That’s too close. But this is, you just, you know, just go around.
Cathy: I get it. I mean, I, I think what I love about Todd and my discussions is, is he, it depending on the mood he’s in, he’s pretty receptive to the things I, and I’m not saying, don’t you ever do that. I’m not his mom. I’m like, don’t leave me in that situation.
Cathy: If you wanna drive around in double Park, you, that’s you. Deal with that, but I don’t wanna be in a passenger seat with you while you do that. Mm-hmm. Um, and I said to him, this was like, I took it a step further. I don’t know, just another pop culture reference for everybody, but, uh, Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco came out with an album last week.
Cathy: That’s really good. And they did a really good interview on Jay Shetty’s podcast, and Benny [00:34:00] Blanco is just the most lovely human being. And he was saying all these things about how if anyone knows Selena Gomez’s past, she’s had a lot of challenges and trauma and illness, physical and mental, and all these things that have like that she struggled with.
Cathy: And so he knows her really well and he said, you know. To gain her trust. What I realized is she needs just a few basic things to succeed. And when I, and when he says succeed, he doesn’t mean like in the music industry, he means like in life, like for her to feel calm and loved and, and supported. And so I told him that Benny Blanco story, and I said, so for me as your wife to feel supported and that I can succeed, don’t double park me.
Todd: Right?
Cathy: So we’re not gonna do that anymore.
Todd: Not when you’re in the car. Um,
but I respect Benny. I, because he’s done nothing but respect me. I, again, trust him. I can tell him anything, even if it’s [00:35:00] about something that’s uncomfortable and maybe she should just talk to your girlfriends like he is that and.
That helps calm me down to say, okay, so I’m going through these things ’cause of maybe what I had before or whatever it is. Nothing is ever bad, nothing in my life I regret and I’m so, so happy for my journey and I’ll continue to be. It is a lesson that you have to, I
Todd: don’t know if that’s the part, but Well, that’s
Cathy: Selena.
Todd: Yeah, that’s Selena. Yeah.
Cathy: But the Benny part, I say just everyone go listen to the podcast. ’cause he’s just a lovely human. It’s not about, oh, he’s the best boyfriend or best fiance. It’s just, he’s a kind man. Another version of masculinity, Todd. Mm-hmm. Like I, that’s right. We’re like, that’s another, you know, if you guys want your sons to hear, uh, from a man who is like, how do I love this specific woman in a way that she feels it.
Cathy: This is a good, um, and, and you know, Todd and I have discussed these things before [00:36:00] because I’ve sent him like clips or tiktoks where I’ve been like this. I love what this man’s saying and doing, and Todd has reported back to me, and you can speak to this part, but you’re like, this may not fly with men because it sounds like a.
Cathy: Happy wife, happy life thing. Oh, yeah,
Todd: yeah, yeah, yeah. I I, I have an aversion to that. I hear that phrase all the time. But a bunch of guys say that to each other. Happy wife, happy life. Right. Dismissing that we also have wants to be happy, like we, right. You have needs too. Uh, we, our, our happiness is subservient only if our wife’s happy first.
Todd: And that seems like a very unequal, unequal. Way of being in relationship. Definitely.
Cathy: Uh, do you think that. That there are times when it just means if I listen to what my wife’s needs are, then things are, which is kind of in my world, elementary. Mm-hmm. Really basic. Yeah. That for some men that starting that process.[00:37:00]
Cathy: Yeah. Actually they’re like, oh, our relationships better because I’m listening to her versus, ’cause I think the way you’re hearing it is it means the woman gets every need
Todd: met. It’s just a trope that I hear all the time and it annoys me. It’s funny, I was, um, with a client. Two days ago, and he and his wife have a lovely relationship and they have disagreements welcome to being in relationship.
Todd: Right. Right. And he’s working on himself. And I judge that his wife may be not working on herself as much as she’s as he is. Okay. From a reactivity standpoint. Got it. It’s a dude. And once again, I’m, when I, whenever I say anything to my client, I’m saying it to myself, dude, you have to lead. If you’re waiting for her to give you the space in order for you to give her the space, it’s transactional and it’s not gonna go anywhere.
Todd: Like somebody’s gotta make a move of consciousness or grounding or acceptance or empathy or whatever.
Cathy: Can you, when you’re saying give her the space to moot, can you be more specific? You can take his issue out of it, but what does that mean? Um, explain.
Todd: It means that [00:38:00] if he is waiting for her to, um, show
up, be
Todd: empathic towards his crappy day at work.
Todd: Got it. In order for him to be empathic towards her crappy day at work. Got it. Then you’re. You guys are just gonna keep butting heads. Somebody’s gotta a shift in their relationship and I’m like, you are on with me right now. Mm-hmm. You are studying, you’re doing homework in between sessions. You’re on with me every three weeks you are, uh, putting yourself in a position.
Todd: I said, anybody could be loving to somebody who’s loving them. Sure. It’s much harder to be loving towards somebody who’s treating them, uh, out of a place of reactivity.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: That’s the sweet spot. And I, this is probably an unfair thing, but there’s times when we as human beings are tornadoes, tornado is, yeah.
Todd: A highly reactive person. Going back, you know, I’m reactive in this moment, but really it probably has something to do with happened 30 years ago that I haven’t resolved yet. Can, can I hold the space for [00:39:00] you when you’re having a really crappy day that has nothing to do with me? Or maybe it does have something to do with me, but can I not attack?
Todd: Can I not defend, can I not withdraw? There are times when I do have the patience and the empathy and the consciousness and the responsiveness to do that, and then there’s other times when I’m also having a bad day and I can’t give you any of that space. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s a dance. Yeah. And what the only times you and I ever get in trouble.
Todd: And when I say trouble, I mean like disagreement kind of spins in the wrong direction is when we’re both in that place. Usually one of us is in a place where we can hold that for the other.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Anyways,
Cathy: yeah. Uh, I would say that, uh, there’s a lot of things that you said there. I, I think the. I’m gonna go back to the happy wife, happy life thing.
Cathy: Yeah. I think you don’t like the energy of that language. I don’t that that makes you just like, there’s it word. It’s a very broy
Todd: thing to say. I, it’s not that I don’t like women for
Cathy: it. I don’t like when guys say that. [00:40:00] Totally. Yeah. And, and that, and so like, I honor that. ’cause I feel the same way about words.
Cathy: I like, okay. Can I take something into severance? Sure. Okay. So, you know, in micro data processing, anybody who’s watching severance, uh, we know that, um, mark s he sits at a computer and he like, takes numbers and then puts them into a box. Okay? That’s what he does all day. We now have the information, sorry, this is not gonna ruin the show for you, but that those severance moment on ING radio is that all of those numbers have a feel, they feel like something, okay.
Cathy: And then they like put ’em in the right box of whatever they feel like. Okay. That’s how I feel about words, right? Like I totally, when they were explaining that on the show, I’m like, oh, I get that. Like where you’re looking at something or you hear something and you’re like, Ugh. You know, like words have energy and you’re feeling in that language, like this doesn’t sit right because it has a hint of either sacrificing yourself.
Cathy: Or being pacifying. Mm-hmm. To your [00:41:00] wife. There’s something in it that’s not healthy. Well, what it would,
Todd: for me, first of all, I love the severance thing because you’re right, but what it, the energy I get from when guys are like, well, you know, happy wife, happy life. It’s them basically saying, my wife is a knack.
Cathy: Yes. See, this is the thing I think that I wanted to, why I wanted to clarify this is sometimes it can sound like you’re saying no, the guy deserves to be happy, which is true. That’s also true. That’s also true. Like of course a relationship is about two people, but really what you’re saying is there’s a passivity Yes.
Cathy: And an inability to, it’s almost like, okay, honey. You know what I mean? Like a, you know, she’s a nag. Yeah. But I’ll just make her
Todd: happy. Well, and the passive and, and for the guide, like, no, have a conversation with your wife of what it means to be in an equal relationship and, and investigate even that phrase, like, why would you, why would you subscribe to something like that?
Todd: Instead of being like, well, happy wife, happy life. That’s just the way it is. Like, no, create the relationship that you wanna have.
Cathy: And I feel [00:42:00] like a better, maybe our new thing that we can say, it’s not really new. ’cause people say it all the time, but it’s us against any problem. Yes. We’re in the same boat.
Cathy: We’re in the same boat. So it’s like. I, I like the idea, um, of, you know, understanding that if you are, and again, this is, there’s so many like components to this. It’s so gendered and it’s so like depending on what your, what your work is. Like if a ma, if a woman is working in the home and she’s with you.
Cathy: The children more and she’s taking care of the, you know, most of the emotional labor or whatever. There is an understanding of, part of my job as a partner is to help take care of her so she can take care of these things. Yeah. Like Todd and I had a discussion the other night. Uh, something was going on with one of our kids and I was managing it.
Cathy: I went
Todd: over too,
Cathy: and he, yeah, you don’t have to get into all of it. You were fine. I
Todd: had two nights where I had an opportunity to connect with my daughters. Two different daughters and I [00:43:00] thought I was doing something to help and it backfired. Let’s just say that.
Cathy: Well, and you know, it, it, and they are things that were, we were able to resolve and, you know, a repair and adapt to.
Cathy: But the, the part that was to me was most important for us in our partnership is that I was handling it and, and not. I don’t do things perfectly all the time. I just felt like in that moment I kind of understood what they needed and. I think sometimes Todd, because he is a three on the Enneagram, I don’t know how else to say this.
Cathy: He always wants to be in it. Yeah. He’s like, well, me too. And me too. And me too. Like he joins every game and he wants to do the things that I do, and he wants to do the things that he does and he want, he’s always like, I wanna be this person too, which is a good quality as far as like. Longevity of work and, you know, being curious and interesting, but sometimes I’m just like, let me handle this and you [00:44:00] support me.
Cathy: Okay. So let’s go back to when babies are really little. I’m, I’m pregnant. Mm-hmm. Or I’m nursing, you know, the baby’s out and I’m nursing. He can’t do that. No. So it’s best for him to support me. Say, you know, do you need a glass of water that helps the baby? So it’s not just about happy wife, it’s about how do I help this family unit?
Cathy: And in this minute, the way that I help my kid is by helping my wife,
Todd: right?
Cathy: Or my partner.
Todd: The problem with that
Cathy: is,
Todd: for me, okay, is it exposes all of my inner critic. More the inner critic says, Todd, you should know what to say in this moment to pacify or to connect with your child. And if Cathy’s doing all the talking and you’re sitting there on a bump in a log, it reinforces this thing.
Todd: Like Cathy does everything. Todd does nothing. So it just hits all of my Achilles. So for me to be silently quiet as you do your [00:45:00] best to negotiate a child who is mildly dysregulated. Is just holds a mirror up to me saying, yep, you have, if I were just to be sit there and be quiet, it’d be like, yep, you have nothing to offer to this family.
Cathy: Yeah. And that is, I totally get that. And I think that because we’re able to talk about these things, that is your voice to not overpower control, but to question, because you, you, that’s basically your ego. So you’re just like, well,
Todd: it’s, it’s some baggage somehow. I dunno what, it’s somehow
Cathy: Cathy is doing better than me at this and she, and not better, like she’s a better person, but somehow Cathy’s doing this and I wanna be doing what she’s doing well and
Todd: just think about the whole scenario is the kid will come to, to you even though I’m there.
Todd: Mm-hmm. You’ll respond. She’ll respond to you. And I am like on the sideline, just witnessing.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: And I know well. If, if [00:46:00] it was just me in the room, she would say, where’s mom? And if we’re both in the room, she’s directing all the energy towards you, she will show you the texts and then I have to kind of walk over like, I’m, I’m not involved.
Todd: So it just hits all of my insecurities
Cathy: in that moment. You’re not, of course. Okay. So because there’s other times you’re way involved. Dad, can we go get something to eat? Dad, will you take me to do this? Texting dad about, will you help me with this class or this financial? So. It’s not as if you don’t have
Todd: true, but you do more of the heavy lifting.
Cathy: But as we’ve discussed a million times, that is in, that is in tune with the way that we have done our family. True. So do you understand that? So I don’t know if a lot of women, uh, or partners agree with this, but I do spend time and I did when the girls were little, making sure that they engaged with you.
Cathy: Like doing things like, oh, go ask your dad or, isn’t that nice that your dad said this? Or Let me tell you something your dad said about you today. Mm-hmm. I am trying not in a, uh, [00:47:00] there’s no, like there’s, I don’t need a pat on the back for doing it or nor is anything I’m saying to them untrue. It’s just I understand the importance mm-hmm.
Cathy: Of them making sure that they understand what you think and do. Sure. You know, like, your dad sent me this text about you today. Isn’t this so sweet? And I engage with them about their relationship with you. And even though you’re probably like, well, you already get plenty, you can do that with them. Mm-hmm.
Cathy: Like, I’m so glad you were able to tell your mom that. Mm-hmm. I, I like talking to your mom. Do you like talking to your mom too? You can connect with them through the way they are with me. Right. Instead of always needing to be ahead and the leader and the way they, you know what I mean?
Todd: I totally agree with you.
Todd: And at the same time, I’m not trying to lead, I’m just trying to sprinkle a little bit of that energy in there. Right, right. And when I did it two nights in a row, I. If backfired with two different kids.
Cathy: Well, and so then we could just say, ’cause we could talk about this forever. We could just say that all this is messy.
Cathy: Of course. Like the, we have children who are so much older and you and [00:48:00] I have been doing this together for 22 years and in there’s still, and there’s no like, so now we do a, b, C. Every situation is different where it depends on the mood of the kid, what they need. So. We can really end on a messy note of is at least we can talk about it.
Cathy: Yeah. And, and know that, um, that we totally, we both repaired with our kids. Yeah. Like, kind of like, Hey, we didn’t handle that great, or it didn’t end on a good note, so let’s make sure that we, and, and I know that that’s intimacy too, so. Sometimes when you or I make a mistake with the girls, the going, okay, this doesn’t, this so beautifully weave right back into what we’re talking about.
Cathy: Us having the humility. Yeah. Of saying, I didn’t do that. Well, I wanna tell you that I have your back. Everything you said last night, I value and that’s all you need to know. Yeah. And I should have said that before. And that repair. Does two things. Number one, it keeps that experience from being traumatic at all [00:49:00] because they won’t remember that.
Cathy: They’ll remember the repair. Sure. And number two, it’s like a deeper connection with them because they trust that we have the humility to see
Todd: what’s funny about repair. And I did repair, I thought relatively well with the second one. Not sure if I did as well with the first one. Not sure if I needed to repair as much with the first one.
Todd: But what’s interesting about initiating repair is, one, it takes vulnerability. Yes. But two. When I get reactive or below the line or, or say something that is, that lands really poorly. It’s actually probably not me talking, it’s the younger version of me that wants to be seen, right? So all of a sudden I regressed a childhood, and so now it’s one child happens to be a 52-year-old child talking to another child.
Todd: So there’s two children talking to each other, and it’s hard when you have some type of regression like that to initiate repair. Mm. Then I have to kind of calm down. Figure it out, get grounded. Like, no, [00:50:00] I’m the 52-year-old man here. Mm-hmm. And it is my job to repair with this 20-year-old woman. Um, and it’s just hard to do that when, uh, we get activated.
Todd: When I get activated.
Cathy: Well, it’s hard in the moment because you’re activated, but if you wait a few hours, you’re not activated anymore. Exactly. And I think the, one of the, if, if you can
Todd: let it go.
Cathy: Yes, I think one of the kisses of death, um, that’s kind of an extreme way of saying it. I think one of the challenges that I see a lot of families face, um, is their belief that they’re gonna fight, say, say negative things to each other, and then just let time, um, create a distance between what happened and the present moment and so then you can move on because nobody’s thinking about that thing.
Cathy: Yeah. But. The, the experience of having a fight or saying something to each other that’s really heavy or negative, it’s an energy so it lives in you and in the kid. Sure. Like it doesn’t mean that all of it’s gonna be a trauma and that, that they’re gonna drop outta school because of it. It’s [00:51:00] not always that big of a deal, but this is what we call death by a thousand cuts.
Cathy: Where over time, if there’s a lot of those where there’s never resolution, there’s a parent without any humility. Yeah. Like who never says, I’m sorry, or who takes accountability or responsibility. That kid over time is like, I’m not going to you.
Todd: You wanna measure your parenting. And I love my mom, bless her heart.
Todd: She died 10 years ago. I don’t ever remember her saying sorry. And she was a great mom, but she wasn’t perfect. You wanna measure yourself of how good of a parent you are. How often do you apologize to your kids? Not in a, in a, uh, what’s the groveling way? Groveling way. Right. In an honest way.
Mm-hmm.
Todd: Uh, because.
Todd: Parenting is tough. Parenting is messy. We all screw up. Mm-hmm. And we feel like, well, I’m in charge here, so I can’t let them know that I screwed up, so I’m never gonna apologize. So I think that’s a good indicator to see how, how well you’re doing.
Cathy: And a lot of these, like these things that Tanya are talking about here, these examples.
Cathy: They’re taught to us by our family. So the [00:52:00] way that we show up in relationship is how we showed up in our relationship or how it was shown to us when we were young. So we’re just replicating. Okay. So, you know, when we would get in a fight when I was growing up, no one would talk about it. It would eventually resolve and we’d move on.
Cathy: So then we use that in our current relationship. Sure. Or with our kids of course. And so what has this show been about for 15 years? You’ve gotta break the pattern. Mm-hmm. You’ve gotta do something different. You may say, well, that’s how we did it in my house, and we’re, we all still love each other. Sure.
Cathy: But. When you think about who you trust, yeah. Or when you think about a person that really understands you or has, you know, demonstrated to you that they care about your wellbeing because they’re learning more about you, is that what you’re getting from the people who don’t? Or if they don’t stonewall, they just never take responsibility.
Cathy: That’s a, that’s a break in connection truth. So if you have that situation, if that’s a pattern you’ve seen in your family, don’t do that anymore. And, and like Todd said, it’s not easy, it’s messy, it’s uncomfortable to knock on their door and be [00:53:00] like, Ugh, I didn’t do that well. But it’s the most, having that experience.
Cathy: Doing that in that day. I can say I did a very important thing today and I feel complete truth versus I’m gonna keep running away from these experiences I’ve had. And if anyone ever brings them up, I’m gonna say, don’t go there. That’s what parents do. You know, don’t go there with me. You know, and it’s like, that’s your like thorns all over you that you, all these things that nobody can touch because they’re emotional to you.
Todd: I just texted Cameron and asked her how Nashville the rabbit was doing.
Cathy: That doesn’t make sense. Who’s Nashville The rabbit.
Todd: Remember on my repair with Cameron on Sunday morning?
Cathy: Yeah. Nash is, that’s the name of that rabbit. Oh,
Todd: it was the, the disagreement was about something that had to do with the city of Nashville.
Todd: So I came in with the intent to reconnect, apologize, own my peace, and I. Bought a little stuffed animal from, I think Nashville’s
Cathy: still here. I think Nashville is tucked in [00:54:00] her that she didn’t bring it with her. Well, don’t look at that. That way she’s,
Todd: oh, you know what, I’m gonna text her again.
Cathy: Don’t, it’ll make her feel guilty.
Cathy: She has all of her stuffed animals except for one here, and they all mean something to her. So don’t, don’t read into that. I’m just kidding,
Todd: sweetie.
Cathy: Okay, good. Don’t do that. But I
Todd: did send that text. I assume she brought it with her.
Cathy: No.
Todd: Mm-hmm. Oh,
Cathy: she, she, by the way, is going straight to Nashville today, so, no, she’s not stopping by.
Cathy: She was gonna stop by here on her way and get her boots. ’cause she’s going to a formal in Nashville. But Stre right
Todd: past her house. She’s in love her parents enough just to stop in and say hi. She’s here for a week. Who cares? Gimme a break. What about my needs? It’s about my needs. Can we close the shimmer?
Todd: Yeah, let’s be done. Uh, I wanna thank David Serrano. He’s, uh, smart. Uh, he’s funny.
He is.
Todd: And he’s trustworthy. Yes, he is our personal financial advisor.
Yay.
Todd: If you wanna know more about David, just scroll, uh, scroll in the show notes and you can click on his website. Um, I. Then there’s Jeremy Kraft.
Yep.
Todd: He’s a Baldheaded Beauty.
Todd: [00:55:00] He does painting and remodeling throughout Chicagoland area. He’s actually painting my dad’s house right now. Nice. Thank you, Jeremy. His phone number is six three nine five six eighteen hundred. And anything else? Closing thoughts, sweetie? Nope.
Cathy: I think, uh, you know, we used a lot of words today, masculinity, humility, responsibility, connection, apology, Nashville, a
Todd: Rabbit,
Cathy: Nashville, um, and, you know, be, and in with all of this, all these deep things we’re talking about.
Cathy: Self-compassion. Yeah, it’s messy. This isn’t easy, but it is something that we can at least have an arrow pointing in that direction where we’re like, this is what I wanna do. We’ll practice together,
Todd: keep track.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty [00:56:00] pleasant.
