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Todd: We go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 810. And why listen to In Parenting Radio because you’ll feel outstanding and always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s wellbeing is a parent’s self understanding.
Todd: On today’s show, we are gonna talk a little bit about your, uh, substack, which you titled The Unseen Work of Regulating Others. Yep. Uh, you know a little about that, do you? I do. But first you wanna talk about two TV shows and then an event that we have cooking tomorrow night?
Cathy: Yeah. So first of all, the event for those of you who are local in the Chicagoland area, um, Todd and I are speaking at Deerfield High School on Wednesday night, so that’s Wednesday, uh, April I.
Cathy: What’s today? Uh, April 9th. April 9th, and it’s at [00:01:00] seven 30. Seven 30 to nine. It’s at Deerfield High School. It’s open to the public, so you don’t have to be from the, you know, that school, it’s open to anyone. And we’re gonna be talking about friendship dynamics and how, you know, as your kid is growing and you know, their struggles with friends or finding groups or the pressure, um, or.
Cathy: How it feels for you as a parent, because I think sometimes parents are, have a harder time with the friendship struggles than the kids actually do. Right? Um, so please come join us. It’ll be interactive, obviously, if you’ve ever seen us speak before. We love questions. We love q and a. Um, and then Todd, I wanna just do a quick thing on Yellowjackets.
Cathy: Okay. The TV show, because a couple months ago you and I talked about how excited we were that severance. White, Lotus and yellow jackets were coming back,
Todd: correct.
Cathy: Your question to me is, which one was I most excited about? And I said, yellow Jackets and
Cathy: have to [00:02:00] share that it is not for me. Been a great season. Um, season one of Yellow Jackets is one of my favorite experiences of tv. It brought together all the things that I love. Season two was. Pretty good, but not quite as good. And so I thought maybe season three they would kind of raise their game again.
Cathy: I don’t know. Something happened where the whole tone changed. I, it, it almost feels like things are, I don’t know, it just, so I just wanted to share that. I don’t know if anyone else watching Yellow Jackets feels similar similarly, but I just wanted to say that in case people were watching season three and they were like, I thought Cathy loved this show.
Cathy: Season one. Todd, you agree, right? Season one. Uh, you
Todd: always liked it better than I did, but yes, the first few seasons were really good. Okay,
Clip: so cute. So revival, so long.
Cathy: So now I told Todd I go, really the only thing I’m excited about now is them getting rescued, which will happen soon. ’cause winter’s coming, [00:03:00] which is what
Todd: we waited for on lost for a long time, even though.
Todd: They were rescued very early in the season with the flash forwards and flashbacks.
Cathy: True. We gotta go back.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Gotta go back Kate. We gotta go back. So next I wanted to talk about the white Lotus had finished, you know, this Sunday, whenever you’re listening. It was a couple days ago. Um, season three, white Lotus.
Cathy: And, um, I thought something, you know, something that was interesting is I wrote something about, um, the women,
Todd: kind of a lame theme song.
Cathy: The guy who wrote this theme song quit. He quit the White Lotus. Did he quit because it was a bad theme song? No, he quit because he said he didn’t wanna work with these people anymore. I don’t, I think it was a contentious quit. Thanks. Um, but anyway, he, not he, but I thought the end, which I’m not gonna spoil a bunch of things ’cause if you’re listening to this on Tuesday, maybe you haven’t gotten a chance to watch it.
Cathy: But I would say that I wrote something on my Substack a couple weeks, about a couple weeks ago, about the [00:04:00] women, the three women, and I thought their ending was very interesting. And I kept saying to Todd, this is more like what women do. Mm. And and I meant it in a positive way. Yeah. Not in a negative way.
Cathy: There is something that happens that I think is more reflective of what re what? Women are capable of doing, and um, everyone’s capable of doing it, but it’s more my life experience. Yeah. So I just wanna say that as kind of a follow up.
Todd: Well, and that kind of dovetails nicely into what the topic of the meeting is, or the meeting of the episode is, the unseen work of regulating others.
Todd: Obviously there’s exceptions in every family. But in our marriage, Cathy does more of the regulating others, and it can, we really regulate others. We can, we
Cathy: think we are,
Todd: we, we can create support to allow [00:05:00] another person to do their own work.
Cathy: Yeah. I think it’s like, you can’t
Todd: regulate me.
Cathy: No, but I think what you, and this is kind of, this is what I wrote about.
Cathy: So if you, if you’re wondering about the, you know. What the actual, uh, essay is about, or a substack, you need to go to My substack. If you scroll down, um, Todd, will you have a link? Scroll down. Yep. Down’s A link.
Todd: Every, every week there’s a link.
Cathy: And if you go on Instagram or just go to Substack and type in Cathy Kanani Adams, you’ll find it.
Cathy: But basically there are things that. People who tend to regulate others do that I don’t think people are aware of. And, and some may be like you’re not really doing anything because from the outside it looks quite invisible. But there’s things that, um, are happening that keep a conversation harmonious, that make sure everybody feels included, that can temper someone’s mood.
Cathy: Um. You know, I mean, I write about it in the first two paragraphs. [00:06:00] Like if, if you and I are at a family dinner and it’s the five of us, right? Yep. There are things I’m doing in that conversation that have to do, that have nothing to do with my needs, and are more about making sure everybody’s being heard, that I’m making eye contact with the right people, that I’m then, you know, looking at somebody who hasn’t spoken to make sure they get a chance, maybe saying to somebody, hold on, don’t say anything yet.
Cathy: This person’s about to speak. Um, and so some
Todd: of it’s about regulating somebody like that’s really struggling and other times it’s just kind of, uh, the social lubricant of a conversation.
Cathy: Correct. And it’s both, you know, like, um, the social lubricant of a conversation is a regulating force because it keeps there from being a.
Cathy: Problem. Yeah. Okay. Stay ahead of it. Stay. So there are times, and I know you haven’t loved this, um, that we’ve been in conversation maybe with our girls, and you’ve been about to say something and I’ve put my hand on you. Yeah.
Todd: Not a fan.
Cathy: I know you’re not a fan and I very much understand and you know, you have every right to be like, Hey, I, I wanna say what I wanna [00:07:00] say, but I know I, I know that what you’re about to say is gonna cause a lot of disruption.
Cathy: Because either the person hasn’t finished talking or what you’re about to say is going to like make them go like this. Mm-hmm. And I’m trying to like maybe finish this conversation on a certain note now. I think some people would be like, well, that’s controlling. Sure. In some situations I am controlling a situation where I’m like trying to keep, like I said, I’m trying to keep things harmonious, but there’s also times that those kind, like when someone’s doing that all the time, it’s dependent on.
Cathy: And then when that person’s not in the mix, there’s a lot of like, um, things went bad or the conversation didn’t go well and, or
Todd: it could be just dead silence
Cathy: or dead silence. And there is a lot of, like, I don’t, you know, there’s a lot of not understanding that the reason that happened is because there’s usually someone in the conversation that is, I, I’ll use your language, like.[00:08:00]
Cathy: Lubricating the conversation. Mm-hmm. And there. And so, okay, so what’s the drawback? The drawback it is, it can be controlling to, you know, other people. It also means that I’m not really participating from my own sense of self. I am participating in a way and making sure that everybody else is okay.
Todd: You’re doing the um.
Todd: You’re putting everybody as everybody else’s mask on the airplane instead of your own.
Cathy: Correct. So I’m coming in and being like, how’s everybody doing? And even if I’m in like, and this has nothing to do with like. It. Um, I’m not coming in anxious. I’m usually in a really good mood, which is part of it, right?
Cathy: I’m always in a good mood. I mean, Todd knows I’m not, but for the most part, if we’re at dinner, if we’re out, if we’re with people, I don’t really have a lot of volatile. You’re not gonna bring your crappy day into the conversation. No. So I’m like, mine’s been put aside and now everybody else tell me about your day.
Cathy: Now again, that’s pretty typical of a parent. We have to make sure that we’re there for our kids. This is [00:09:00] not, um. It. I think the reason I wanted to write about this is I think for a lot of women, and as you said, there are definitely men who do this. If you actually read my, um. My Substack, I don’t even give a gender.
Cathy: I mean, I talk about what I discuss in restoring our girls. So I guess you could say, you know, I’m referring to my book, but I just say you.
Clip: Mm-hmm. Through
Cathy: the whole thing. I don’t give a gender. Right. Because like, so the first sentence is you walk into a room and instinctively assess how everyone is doing.
Cathy: Picking up on everyone’s tone, mood, and subtle cues like that is my daily experience. Is walking into a room and like noticing what everybody is, is feeling and experiencing. Um, and then I then come in with that understanding of, I’m gonna talk now, I’m not gonna talk, now I’m gonna be quiet because I’m assessing other people.
Cathy: I.
Todd: So, and there’s times, uh, you know, going back to, you know, sometimes when you put your hand on my leg when I am about to say something, some of it’s like, Hey, I deserve to have a [00:10:00] place in this conversation. And what about my perspective? Um, and I think what you do most of the time, not all the time, is helpful.
Todd: And honestly, sometimes it’s just hard to find an opening.
Cathy: I understand there’s
Todd: a lot of, especially if all five of us are together, um, if it’s me and you and one of the kids, it’s a little bit easier to find my space. But if there’s th three kids and a wife, um, I’m just like, I’m, I feel like unless I interrupt, I there’s no space anyways.
Cathy: Yes. Oh, I get that. Like we’re, we’re a talkative crew.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Um, we’re very, we have a lot of opinions. We have a lot of. Pop culture examples. We have a lot of experiences that we like to share, so I understand why Todd feels that way, and I, and in no way am I trying to silence him from a conversation. I think what I’m trying to do is not have him say something that then he has to, he has to.
Cathy: Um, not apologize necessarily, but he’s gotta circle back and figure that out with the [00:11:00] girls. Like, I kind of know when something he’s gonna say is gonna go awry.
Clip: Right.
Cathy: And I, and so in some ways okay, just to be, you know, completely transparent. I’m trying to protect him and protect them, and I’m trying to protect myself from having to be someone who makes sure that all of that goes well.
Todd: Right. Um, and there’s a ego part of me who’s like, let me mess up so then I can fix it. And you’re like, yeah, but when, but I kind of
Cathy: end up. Doing that. Right,
Todd: right. Some of the time,
Cathy: some of the time, like I’m in, you take accountability and responsibility. This isn’t about that. You’re not responsible, but really there’s a lot of like, then I sit with you and talk through, maybe here’s something you could do, or here’s a good idea, or I, I don’t necessarily go to the girls and talk about you, but I assess how they’re doing.
Cathy: Do you know what I mean? Of course. There’s just a lot of things that I think there is. I think one of the biggest parts, um, that is unseen is absorbing other people’s tension. Um, which is, I, it’s basically what [00:12:00] we’ve been saying before, but I, I will come into a conversation, and this isn’t just with my children and you, I, you know, I do this some with clients sometimes or with other people.
Cathy: Is they’re, they’re saying something that’s like heavy or heavy handed or, or big, and there’s an absorbing of allowing of taking it in and listening and softening the edges for other people and doing things that. Keep the conversation going. Have you ever been in conversation before, Todd, with two or three people who are more like an eight on the Enneagram?
Todd: Yep.
Cathy: Meaning they’re really, they, they just say what they mean. They’re, they’re coming full on. Mm-hmm. They have big opinions. And how does that conversation go? Um,
Todd: there’s usually a disagreement or an argument.
Cathy: Yes. And somebody, and people often don’t feel like they’re getting their needs met in the conversation.
Cathy: Um, you know, I’m picturing some in my mind right now where there’s just a lot of yelling. There’s a lot of rolling the eyes. There’s a lot of, you don’t know what I’m talking about. [00:13:00] There’s a lot of, um, and somebody who is a little more of who regulates others. If they came into that situation, I’m not saying they would make it all perfect, but they probably do things.
Cathy: That would be somewhat invisible, but they would do things to temper that. Like, oh, oh, hold on. Wait a second. I wanna know what you were thinking. What were you gonna say? Okay, now that I got that, okay, now what were you thinking? And people will be like, well, that’s just conversation style. It’s really not
Clip: right.
Cathy: You’re really just trying to keep the temperature low and you’re someone who can kind of help mediate that conversation. In a somewhat invisible way, and I think the reason that I wrote about it or that I talk about it, you know, and I especially share with Todd, is it’s very tiring. And the, the, what I wrote about in the Substack is the fact that I know I do it.
Cathy: I was taught to do it, meaning I grew up as a woman or as a young girl and as a woman, and, and the whole culture tells [00:14:00] me to be nice and kind and make sure other people are taken care of and notice other people’s needs and be really empathetic. And so it’s like kind of. Ingrained in us. And then plus my, you know, my job, I’m a therapist, all that kind of stuff.
Cathy: So I’ve learned it on a clinical level, but I also get blamed for doing it. So people are like, well, you shouldn’t do that. You should have more boundaries. Let people make their own decisions. Let them, as Mel Robbins would say, or you know, allow people to make their own mistakes and, and whatever. So then I also am told that maybe I’m being codependent.
Cathy: Right. So there’s a lot of like, blame for doing it, but then if I don’t do it, people will look at me and be like, what’s, what’s wrong with you? Mm-hmm. What’s going on with you? There’s something off, you’re, you’re, you’re off in this conversation. So do you see the cycle?
Todd: Well, you say, and it said, uh, you know, I.
Todd: I, I don’t know if this paragraph was in your first draft, but you said you know what burnout is and you don’t want to abandon yourself. You’ve done the therapy, read the books, practice mindfulness. [00:15:00] You’re wondering if it’s related to paramo menopause, or maybe you’re in full blown menopause. You’ve co, you’ve reread codependent no more, more than once.
Todd: Hell, it lives on your nightstand. You’ve been told. You do these things because of early trauma, because there was a time when being hypervigilant made you feel safe. You wanna kind of just embellish on that paragraph, sweetie? No.
Cathy: Basically I put that paragraph in after I had written my first, um, run through of this because I.
Cathy: I wanted people to understand that. I know, like when, you know, it’s like if I say, well, I tend to regulate others, they’ll be like, people will be like, well, you shouldn’t do that, and that’s not good for you, and that’s not good for them. And I’m like, I’m quite aware, like I’ve studied these things. I know I’ve gone to therapy.
Cathy: I know it can hurt me. I know it can hurt others. I know all these things. And, and that doesn’t mean I’ve given up on the whole idea or that I’m just gonna, you know, I, I, I just, I think that people don’t understand how. It’s dependent on like, for as much as,
Todd: you know, people wanna be like, well, [00:16:00] basically you’re trying to prevent, uh, for some reason I’m thinking like spilled milk on the floor.
Clip: Yeah.
Todd: Instead of letting me spill the milk on the floor, you can, I. Put your hand underneath the glass. Yeah. That in case I do something, then the milk is not spilled on the floor.
Cathy: Or I’ll say, Todd, here’s a cap.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And it doesn’t, it’s not about don’t talk or don’t drink milk. It’s about right at this second, hold on.
Cathy: Someone is finishing up a thought. Let them finish and then maybe take a breath and say something. So sometimes I’ll just put my hand on your leg. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I do that because if you interrupt. And this is not just with our children, but with people. There’ll be a, like a, hold on. You know what I mean?
Cathy: Like I know what’s gonna come and I know that we can sit here and say, let Todd experience that. But it’s not just him experiencing it. I’m there too. And oftentimes I’ll be the one that, that they will come to later and say, oh, that frustrated me, or whatever.
Todd: So I
Cathy: am
Todd: involved. Well, and even the idea of interrupting, like even that is a relative term [00:17:00] ’cause there is some.
Todd: Thing called mindful interruptions. We’re like, Hey, I just wanna understand you for a second here. Sure. Like, that’s a mindful interruption. If I’m just waiting for my turn to talk and about to give a really good 32nd lecture, that’s probably not the best time to be interrupting.
Cathy: Right, right. And and the thing is, is there is just like I see all the different sides of it.
Cathy: Like I see the fact that sometimes. I am doing it just because I’m ready for bed and I want everyone to just be fine and go to bed. And I don’t wanna have to have some, you know, you don’t wanna clean up the milk. I’m doing it for me. Right. I know that sometimes I’m doing it because there is someone that I can feel needs a little extra care and I’m like, this
Todd: one is in a really fragile state right now.
Cathy: Correct. And I am always willing when that person is struggling to give them more of my energy than to myself. Yeah. Right. I’m, I’m like, you’re the most important. And then there are times that I feel like. You know, I mean, and, and because I’ve been saying all these things that are good, like sometimes I, I don’t think what Todd’s about to say is a good thing to say.
Cathy: Like, [00:18:00] I wanna be like, even though it may be wrong for me to stop him, I’m like, I know you’re gonna piss this person off. And not because he’s intending to, not because he’s has any mal intent, but it is gonna cause a rift. And sometimes it just happens and we figure it out and we always do. But you can understand the, you know, I think the, the thing about this that I wanted to write about without having a resolution, which was the.
Cathy: The, uh, end of the white lotus, that was really what they said is remember the, um, the monk is giving the. Not sermon. What do they give? Like their his talk, this talk in the morning and he basically says, just no, life doesn’t have resolution. Right? Right. So there’s no resolution to this. It’s not that Todd and I are saying, okay, therefore do this.
Cathy: But the subtitle of what I wrote is Why noticing and managing other people’s emotions is both expected and also criticized like. This is something that I think a lot of moms and and others do a lot in their families, is they’re very tempering [00:19:00] of people’s emotions and very watchful of what people are saying and doing.
Cathy: And that is also what sometimes kids can’t stand about their parents. I. There’s too much tempering and too much watching and too much noticing, and, and then there’s also that middle piece where the parents or the mom is doing that all the time, and there’s not even a recognition that she’s doing anything,
Clip: right.
Cathy: It’s so invisible that there is like a, they think they’re doing it right, they think they’re tempering themselves, and really it’s because of the way the conversation has been organized.
Todd: So didn’t you have, um. A version or a paragraph in there that you took out? ’cause it would’ve been through a more angry lens.
Todd: Yes. And if so, are you willing to share that here? Because you can share some context around it.
Cathy: Well, I think a few things I did, I, I made the language more subtle because when I wrote it I was really mad and I was mad. Um, like I said, I put in the thing about perimenopause [00:20:00] and menopause because I.
Cathy: Sometimes have these days where I feel a lot of rage and it, it doesn’t happen that often. It’s usually around my period. You know, it kind of makes sense. I was explaining to Todd that when you’re in perimenopause, when your period comes, you’re, um, you’re um, especially at the stage I’m at, at 54, ’cause I have not gone through full blown menopause yet.
Cathy: Is that you? Estrogen and progesterone dip, which means your serotonin isn’t working the way it’s supposed to. And all of those like boundaries that I have in myself or filters or like the capability to access, like the best well-intentioned thing to say or do or feel, I don’t have access to that on certain days.
Cathy: And I think this is. I’ve never been like someone who’s gone through extreme PMS, you know, premenstrual syndrome, but I’m finding in perimenopause that I’m having days like this where I’m very angry and, um,[00:21:00]
Todd: we’re going to, um,
Cathy: I’m totally a rat in a cage.
Todd: We’re going to, uh. Do a Men Living Team Zen thing that is gonna help, um, anybody who wants to listen. Have you talked to me and whoever wants to hear it? Uh, what ha you just explained it like the drop in serotonin or estrogen or whatever it is, the first two drop and then the serotonin.
Todd: Because one thing you said is what does our society say? Oh, women are crazy. Yeah. Women are on their period, blah, blah, blah, uhhuh. And as somebody who’s really logical, when you said that to me. Estrogen and what’s the other one you said?
Cathy: Uh, estrogen and progesterone
Todd: Yeah. Are the two. I, I, I don’t pretend to understand what either one of those things do, but the serotonin one I do understand a little bit.
Todd: And if that chemically is being removed from your workings mm-hmm. Then that makes sense to me. Right. But unless, until I know that, I’d [00:22:00] be like, can’t you just be normal? And the reason you can’t be normal is because the chemistry in your body is different. Exactly. That’s a really helpful thing for me to know as your husband.
Cathy: Yeah. So like Todd said, we’d like to, we’re gonna host something and we’re gonna talk about menopause, and I would really like men to come because they’re the ones who need to. Understand. ‘
Todd: cause a lot of ’em live with a woman who’s been through it. Correct.
Cathy: And, and I think so. And, and so what happens besides just feeling rage?
Cathy: I think, and, and I use that word not loosely. Like I felt so angry and this is why when all of that drops away from me and I’m als, I’m kind of, I’m ungrounded chemically. Okay. I feel everything that the world is going through, and that’s partly maybe Cathy, I, I can’t, like, this is a
Todd: mix of being me. Well, your, your protection is gone.
Todd: My protection is gone. Your shield is down. Your, your face mask is off and you’re vulnerable.
Cathy: Exactly. So all the things that I’ve been able to like, imagine it [00:23:00] like that. I’m in the trash compactor. Uh, in Star Wars, you know, and I’m able to put up my hands and that’s all the chemicals that are working as they should.
Cathy: And, you know, and I’m like, okay, all these things are crashing in on us, but I’m holding these at bay because I have all these chemicals helping me, and then all of a sudden there’s a day or two, um, you know, depending on where you are in your cycle, that everything just kind of dips. And I can’t hold those walls anymore and I can feel it, and I can see it.
Cathy: It was something. These are the walls. Yes, these are, this was me. That’s was actually weak,
Todd: sweetie. You’re trying your best healthy me leia’s. Trying. They’re trying to put that big steel beam in between.
Cathy: And that’s the thing is like, you know, like when that’s closing in on me, I do need help and I don’t need help. I do. Do you wanna hear a word? [00:24:00]
Todd: You just need to, you just need to call three po. Where could he be? Okay, go ahead.
Cathy: Um, but that’s really how it feels. And I, and the thing that I, I know for a fact is I’m able to say to Todd, I know this will pass, but right now I’m not okay.
Cathy: And I feel everything that’s happening in the world, and it is unbelievable to me. And I just cry and cry, and cry, and cry, and cry. And, um,
Todd: and as being, it’s very painful and being married to you for a long time, I’m getting better at being able to engage and lean in and hold space when you’re, when your chemical levels are down and, um.
Todd: I’m not close to a perfect husband, but I think I’m getting better at being able to just be okay when you’re not okay. And I, but there’s a part of [00:25:00] me that gets defensive and like, well, what, what? Like we, everything was fine yesterday and now it’s not today. Um, and I just think us husbands who happen to be married to wives can invest a little bit of their energy into.
Todd: Allowing and supporting your most important person to go through this.
Cathy: Well, and I think even more important is unique is learn about what’s happening.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Like it’s not just, oh, my poor wife, I gotta support her through this. That’s like my nightmare. Like I, the amount of times that, especially this month that I said to Todd, I don’t want any jokes about, you know, women and emotions and all these things because.
Cathy: And this is just me being mad about it, but if you guys had to go through what we had to go through, I don’t know if you’d do as good of a job like I have been. And I’m saying that kind of just to be mean. You know, like I, I have had days this week [00:26:00] where my leg is in pain, I have cramps, I’m having emotional issues right now.
Cathy: I have a headache and I am, I keep on trucking, as you would say. Mm-hmm. And I just wonder, and that’s just something I know how to do. Right. That’s, we just keep. We keep doing the things and, and I don’t mean that when you know that you get a man cold and you’re in bed all day, but I just, this is our life.
Cathy: Like this isn’t just a day, this is like fluctuations and cycles that we go through. And I think if you guys understood it versus helping us through it, not, not even, versus on top of helping us through it, it would make more sense and then it wouldn’t be so foreign and it wouldn’t be something that you would maybe make light of.
Cathy: Yeah. Because it’s not really that funny because we are really having a, an experience of pain or emotional, um, let down or, and it’s not an, it’s not our fault, right? Like we didn’t do anything to make that happen. This is. Where this is what our bodies are going through. But [00:27:00] what, what are both a cold, fake
Todd: woman?
Todd: He’s a man. He’s got a man cold. Sweet. A man cold. I
Cathy: know. And, and that’s, and I think, you know, I like, I, I haven’t watched the whole thing, but Oprah did a whole thing about menopause, um, last week. And there’s one clip where a couple comes on together and, and the guy. You know that it’s her husband and she’s gone through a lot and she’s, you know, this woman is in perimenopause and he’s like, now that I understand what my wife is going through and how it cycles and, and all these experiences, he’s like, all I think about is if this happened to men, there’d be a pill.
Cathy: Like we would’ve created a pill by now. Mm-hmm. We would’ve done something to make sure that men didn’t have to go through all of these things without any medical, medical interventions.
Todd: So, um, so a few things. Uh, what are a few of the re You said Oprah had somebody on? Yeah. Who did she have on?
Cathy: Oh, sorry.
Cathy: Oprah, on March 31st. So a week ago. A or so ago she did a special and, um, she had on a bunch of people who are like the [00:28:00] voices of menopause right now. Okay. You know, Dr. Marie Haber, um, Naomi Watts, uh, Halle Berry, uh, Maria Shriver, she just had a bunch of people on to talk about this. Um, and she also had people call in, you know, and ask questions as Oprah does with her, you know?
Cathy: Got it with her. And she’s also had done some podcasts about it. And, um, so with many, many other people, there’s a lot of people out there who are now talking about menopause. And I think if you have Sharon Malone, that one, she, she had her on the podcast too, and she’s wonderful as well. She’s the one who started Alloy, which is I get some of my, um, vitamins from Alloy.
Cathy: Um,
Todd: yeah, I got an Oprah Winfrey special. The menopause Revolution. Yeah. Monday, March 31st. Yeah. I was on A, B, C. Yeah. So that’s one. And didn’t you share some podcasts with me that you wanted me to listen to? I haven’t. I’ve been asking, I’ve
Cathy: been waiting for you
Todd: to ask me for them to be honest with you. I, I, I str, I.
Todd: I scrolled through our texts and I thought for sure you sent them, but I can’t find them.
Cathy: [00:29:00] Oh, no, no, I never did. Oh, I never did. I thought I was, well, now is as good a time as any. Okay.
Todd: Do you have
Cathy: them? So? Well, I mean, I do, but I, I will pull them up and send them to you. Okay. Fair. I mean, because you know, there’s, there’re who do you wanna hear from?
Cathy: Like that. Like what aspect do you wanna hear? The big picture? Like, you know, Dax has had a few people on, um, there’s been some people on Mel Robbins, there’s been, you know, people on Oprah’s podcast, whichever one,
Todd: because I haven’t listened to any of these things. So whichever one you think would be most useful and productive for me is the one I wanna start with.
Cathy: Well, and, and I think the thing that we understand now, which I didn’t understand even a year ago, and now I understand, is that when estrogen, um, is depleted and also, uh, our, our testosterone goes down, all of these things go down. But esp especially talk about estrogen that affects every aspect of our body, not just our, you know.
Cathy: Our cycles. Mm-hmm. And, you know, getting our periods or releasing eggs, it affects our livers, it affects, you know, [00:30:00] our, you know, brain. It affects everything. Yeah. And so a lot of these things that women have been told to just live with, like, oh, you have, like right now I have a shooting pain down my leg and it’s, it’s probably nerves which is related to.
Cathy: Even perimenopause, you know what I mean? Um, ’cause it, it only really shows up around my cycle. Yeah. Like, it’s so, it’s so interesting, right? Once you have this information and, um. You know, there are things we can do. Now, a, again, I don’t, we’re making this all a, a menopause podcast, but there, there was a, um, a study that came out a while ago, probably a decade or so ago that somehow, um, correlated breast cancer with taking, um, hormone replacement therapy.
Cathy: And so everyone was afraid then. To take hormone replacement therapy. And even doctors still to this day, I was just at mine and she’s still not a fan of it. And you have to, we now know that not to be true or that that study was way blown out of proportion. Um, especially when [00:31:00] you look at the long-term risk of doing nothing, like not having any hormone replacement therapy.
Cathy: So I’m in the process of learning all this. I am not someone who’s suggesting what everybody should do. I’m not a doctor in that. It doesn’t sound like the doctors know either. Well, that’s the thing is there’s all this information that I feel I, one of the things I get rageful about. Is the fact that from a medical standpoint, I have to constantly advocate for myself that I have to do more reading and just go in and ask for what I need based on the reading I’ve done.
Cathy: Right. And now in some ways I’m used to that. I’ve been doing that my whole life when it came to migraines and pregnancy and all these things. But it’s, it’s interesting that one time I kind of jumped on Todd because. He was, what did you say to me? You said something, something
Todd: stupid.
Cathy: No, we were talking, I was, we were talking about doctors and the fact that I’ve had to now have like four or five different doctors.
Cathy: And you said something like, man, you have to,
Todd: yeah, you really gotta work hard to get the right, find the right person, or [00:32:00] something like that.
Cathy: And, but the way that I heard it, and I think Todd was just trying to say, oh, that’s difficult, but I heard it like that was something that I was doctor jumping or that I was, you know, needed a lot of doctors because something wasn’t, something is wrong.
Cathy: And I really kind of jumped on his case. I’m like, I have no choice. You know what I mean? Like I go to this doctor and they’re telling me one thing and then I go to this one and they tell me another thing and I am forced to get different people to work with me. Right. And, and I don’t think men have that experience as much.
Todd: Not only that, most guys don’t even go to the doctor. Good point. They don’t even try. At least I go to the, it took me whatever, 15 years into our marriage for me to go to my annual checkup because I thought it was invincible. I thought nothing. If nothing would ever go wrong and knock on wood, nothing has gone wrong.
Todd: But I don’t know if it was you or somebody just said like, it’s not about you, dude. It’s about us. It’s about the family that you’re helping support. And you gotta know [00:33:00] it’s not just about you. You got people that are relying on you to be healthy.
Cathy: Yep.
Todd: Anyways.
Cathy: I totally agree. Like that is part of the reason, you know, I, there’s a couple days outta the year that I call my bravest days, and they are, when I go do things like get a mammogram and go to my doctor’s appointment, and I wear my I Am Brave Socks, um, that my friend Rita gave me, and I do that on purpose.
Cathy: Like, I don’t love doing that because I’m always running into obstacles where they tell, you know, like, I take shots for migraines and some doctors don’t like that because why are you, you know, I mean, I’m constantly. You know, navigating your, navigating my own medical, and, and this is not, I love doctors.
Cathy: I’m not mad at, at the medical profession. It’s just one of those blocks that. We have where we all have different opinions. Yeah. Or we all have different specialties. And I’m not quite,
Todd: you just wanna go to one source who Yes. Knows it all.
Cathy: Yes. And that’s work. The, that’s the way it set up way. Yeah. And I think a lot of people can relate to that.
Cathy: Um, but I, let’s like get back to why we were talking about a [00:34:00] regulating others is I was having, I was. Having one of those days where I was pretty upset about a lot of things and I just wanted to be mad.
Clip: Mm-hmm.
Cathy: And I realized that in my life I really don’t have space to be mad. And that if I was mad, I would make everyone else so uncomfortable and people would know what to do with me because normally I am in a good mood.
Todd: Yeah. You are, um, productive. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so how often do I get mad? I, I assume I probably get more quiet than mad, right? Um, I have no idea. That’s not a question for me. I know. How often do you perceive me as mad?
Cathy: Um, I perceive you as not mad, but you pull away.
Todd: Yeah. I just get quiet or
Cathy: you just get quiet and you start to like do things on your own and you’re in your office all the time and you just pull away.
Cathy: Yeah. And you don’t think you’re pulling away. ’cause you’ll come out and say, what does everyone want, want for dinner? But I can emotionally tell that you are like light years away. Mm-hmm. So it’s, it’s less about [00:35:00] mad. Um. And, uh, it’s
Todd: more about just Yeah. Unavailability.
Cathy: Yeah. And I think just to Exactly, and, and that’s what I, you know, I’ll, you usually want that, so I have space
Todd: to be unavailable.
Todd: Whereas if you make yourself unavailable, then it’s a different household.
Cathy: Wouldn’t you agree with that? Of course. Like if you’re unavailable, that’s the
Todd: dance. We’ve been dancing since we started these kids. Exactly. Since these kids showed up.
Cathy: And I think one of the other pieces that’s really important in this rage commentary is that I’m very rageful about things that are going on in the world.
Cathy: Yeah. I’m feeling a sprinkle that on I’m, and that’s a, and it’s, it’s more than a sprinkle because it’s like, I think women and girls are trying to live in this world and do all the things that they normally do and show up in the ways they’re expected to show up and also get blamed for. Showing up in the ways they’re expected to show up.
Cathy: That’s kinda what I was writing about, you know, and do all these things while at the same time there is like legislation that’s trying to take away our voting rights or decrease our voting rights, like make it more difficult [00:36:00] for us to vote. Um, they’re, you know, to obviously taking away our bodily autonomy and restricting our, our, our rights to, you know, reproductive care and everything that is going on with our, with us and, um, and just.
Cathy: It’s like an overall kind of contempt for women and their voices and, um, and I, and they’re, while in your life doing all these other things, you have to deal with that noise and you have to act normal Yeah. In the midst of it. And, and make sure you talk to everyone the right way about it. And you show up this way and don’t, and it’s, I in some ways, when I have those days where I just let down and just cry, I think it’s.
Cathy: Part of, you know, sometimes the way I look at getting a period is it’s not just about the reproductive health of our bodies, it’s also about letting go every month of a lot of toxicity and things we don’t need, if that’s emotional or internal, whatever. And sometimes when I have days where I just [00:37:00] cry, I think that that is my experience of getting rid of a lot of things I’ve been pushing away.
Todd: Release.
Cathy: Yeah, noise. Just like things that I try, you know, you read a story or you read about a woman being hurt or a woman being raped and or a trial that never happens, or a rape kit that’s never looked at. Or, uh, a young girl that went for help and then never got help and then was killed by her domestic partner.
Cathy: You read about that enough. And you have days where you just wanna punch out a window. Yeah. Because nobody’s paying attention. Um, or not in the right way. So, plus, you know, how, how are our, how’s the stock market doing, hun?
Todd: Uh, actually it was down 5% this morning. Yeah. And now it’s only down one and a half percent.
Todd: Oh. So. So it was getting better. It was worse about six hours ago. But what changed? Uh, I don’t know. Market’s like, ah, maybe, maybe they overcorrected, but it’s gonna be a tough go for a bit. Yeah. Who knows what our, uh. [00:38:00] President is gonna decide, but uh, he’s, he’s making a lot of waves. You think, let’s just say that.
Cathy: So then there’s that, that you add to it is all of that chaos. And so anyway, I think that, um, that it’s just important to, I. Um, talk about these things that sometime go unseen.
Todd: That’s right. So let’s talk about what’s not being talked about.
Cathy: Yeah. Let’s talk, let’s, Todd, let’s have a new show called, let’s talk about what’s not being talked about.
Todd: It’s a lot of words I know. Um, any last minute things? Let’s talk about Team Zen real quick, sweetie. Sure.
Cathy: Uh, team Zen is our, uh, parenting virtual community and, um, it’s a fantastic group and we do live talks with them every month. I have a women’s group. We have a group about raising sons. We. Bring in a lot of speakers and if you wanna join us, $25 a month, cancel at any time, and we would love to chat with you.
Todd: And don’t forget about uh, Jeremy Kraft. He’s a bald-headed beauty. He does painting and remodeling throughout Chicagoland area. 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800 avid [00:39:00] code.net. Catch you next week.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.
