Todd and Cathy discussed the concept of “flooding the zone” in family dynamics and personal peace of mind, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking, discernment, and effective communication. They explored various strategies to manage the effects of flooding the zone, including being clear about core values, prioritizing and filtering information, and engaging with discernment. The discussion also touched on the importance of emotional regulation, resilience, and setting boundaries in parenting, as well as the role of physical touch and respect for children’s boundaries.

For the full show notes, visit zenparentingradio.com.

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AI Summary

Meeting summary for ZPR Podcast Recording (02/03/2025)

Quick recap

Todd and Cathy discussed the concept of “flooding the zone” in family dynamics and personal peace of mind, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking, discernment, and effective communication. They explored various strategies to manage the effects of flooding the zone, including being clear about core values, prioritizing and filtering information, and engaging with discernment. The discussion also touched on the importance of emotional regulation, resilience, and setting boundaries in parenting, as well as the role of physical touch and respect for children’s boundaries.

Summary

Managing “Flooding the Zone” in Families
In this episode of Zen Parenting Radio, Todd and Kathy discuss the concept of “flooding the zone,” a political tactic used to distract, confuse, or control the narrative. They explore how this tactic can be applied to family dynamics and personal peace of mind. Todd outlines six strategies to manage the effects of flooding the zone: being clear about core values, prioritizing and filtering information, pausing and reflecting, engaging with discernment, and educating and empowering oneself. The aim is to reduce the fear response and increase critical thinking skills to navigate overwhelming information and situations.

Encouraging Critical Thinking in Children
Todd discussed the importance of critical thinking and discernment in decision-making, using the example of a Gen X parent’s concern about her daughter’s outfit. He emphasized that providing answers and solutions to children stifles their critical thinking abilities and suggested that parents should encourage their children to think through their choices and decisions. Todd also mentioned the potential for this behavior to manifest in families, often unconsciously, and suggested that it could be a political strategy. He concluded by referencing movie scenes where parents struggle with effective communication and decision-making with their children.

Flooding the Zone” in Family Dynamics
Todd led a discussion about the concept of “flooding the zone” in family dynamics, using scenes from various movies as examples. He explained that this term refers to when one family member dominates a conversation or situation, often with negative or critical comments. Todd used examples from “Lady Bird,” “The Breakfast Club,” and “Dead Poets Society” to illustrate how this behavior can manifest in different relationships. He emphasized that while these behaviors may come from a place of worry or concern, they can still be damaging and hinder effective communication within a family.

Effective Communication With Children
Todd discussed the importance of effective communication with children, particularly in dealing with overwhelming situations. He emphasized the need to avoid criticizing or overwhelming children with multiple issues at once, instead focusing on one issue at a time. Todd also highlighted the importance of emotional regulation and validation, suggesting that parents should empathize with their children’s feelings and help them focus on one issue at a time. He further suggested that parents should offer comfort and support, rather than trying to solve all the child’s problems at once. Todd also touched on the concept of “parent flooding,” where parents, due to anxiety, tend to over-explain and talk too much, which can be overwhelming for children.

Emotional Regulation and Authenticity in Teens
Todd discussed the importance of emotional regulation and resilience during challenging times, particularly in the context of teenage years. He referenced a quote from Little Miss Sunshine, suggesting that these years are prime for struggling and learning valuable lessons. Todd also emphasized the need for authenticity in communication, advising against using quotes that may not resonate with one’s own experiences. He suggested that parents should validate their children’s feelings and offer support, rather than dismissing their emotions or implying that they will benefit from the experience.

Emotions, Relationships, and Family Dynamics
Todd discussed the various ways emotions and issues can arise within families and relationships. He highlighted the tendency for parents to become uncomfortable when their children express strong emotions, often leading to numbing or stoic behavior. Todd also touched on the issue of parental over-explaining, likening it to the ‘vacation’ scene from the movie ‘Vacation’. He further discussed the phenomenon of ‘piling on’ in arguments, where past grievances are brought up to escalate tension. Todd also mentioned the concept of ‘decision-making overload’ in family meetings, where numerous issues are discussed simultaneously, leading to inefficiency and frustration. He used the movie ‘Knives Out’ as an example of how unresolved issues and grudges can manifest in family dynamics.

Managing Decision-Making and Emotional Regulation
Todd discussed strategies for managing decision-making overload and emotional regulation. He emphasized the importance of focusing on one thing at a time and recognizing what can be controlled. Todd also highlighted the need for emotional regulation, particularly in situations where one’s nervous system is still in overdrive despite the absence of external pressures. He suggested taking a break and being aware of one’s thoughts and feelings to better manage stress and anxiety.

Setting Boundaries and Reflective Listening
Todd discussed the importance of setting boundaries and practicing reflective listening in conversations with children or partners. He emphasized the need to model calm responses when others are emotionally overwhelmed, and to avoid being reactive. Todd also highlighted the importance of role modeling boundaries for children, as they learn from observing their parents’ behavior. He shared personal experiences and encouraged the group to adopt a more balanced approach to their children’s activities, allowing for quiet time when needed. Todd also introduced the concept of “one out breath,” encouraging concise communication to avoid lengthy discussions.

Emotional Regulation and Physical Touch
Todd and his co-host discussed the importance of emotional regulation and physical touch in parenting. They emphasized the need for parents to remain calm when dealing with their children, as children tend to mirror their parents’ emotions. Todd also highlighted the importance of respecting children’s boundaries and not pushing them beyond their comfort levels. He shared personal experiences of how he and his co-host have maintained a consistent level of physical touch with their children as they grew older. Todd also mentioned two upcoming events related to his book, one in Chicago and another in Santa Monica, where he will be discussing the topic of restoring girls.

Blog Post

Flood the Zone: Strategies for Staying Calm When Life Gets Loud

Welcome back to another insightful discussion from Zen Parenting Radio. In our podcast episode, “801 Flood the Zone: Staying Calm When Things Get Loud,” hosts Todd and Cathy explore the concept of “flooding the zone.” This episode dives into understanding this tactic, often used politically, and applying strategies for maintaining peace and focus in our personal lives, especially within our families. Let’s delve into the key discussions and strategies shared during this insightful episode.

Understanding “Flood the Zone”

“Flood the zone” is a phrase borrowed from political strategy, which involves bombarding an audience with a massive amount of information, making it difficult for them to focus on one specific aspect. This is not just a political tool—it can manifest within family dynamics, creating chaos and confusion.

In our conversation, we emphasized how this may unintentionally happen within families, often surfacing when emotions are heightened, boundaries are unclear, or someone is seeking control over a situation. Recognizing how this tactic can manifest at home provides us with opportunities to address and manage it effectively.

Recognizing Flooding in Family Dynamics

Flooding in a family context can manifest in several ways, such as overloading issues: addressing multiple grievances at once, like “You never help with the dishes, you’re always late, and last week you ignored my text.” This can overwhelm the discussion and make productive communication difficult. Another way is emotional flooding. Kids often come home with an avalanche of emotions triggered by various stressors. Instead of trying to tackle every problem simultaneously, it’s more effective to empathize with them and address one issue at a time.

Parental overexplaining is another manifestation, where parents try to teach or correct by overwhelming their children with lengthy lectures, which can often result in them tuning out. Sibling dynamics can also bring about issues; bringing up historical grievances during a conflict, like referencing a scar from five years ago, can escalate tensions unnecessarily. Decision-making overload can manifest in family meetings that go off-topic, overwhelming decisions due to mixing several agendas at once.

Strategies to Stay Calm and Focused

Staying tranquil amidst chaos requires conscious strategies. Naming the pattern and gently calling out when flooding is happening can help diffuse a tense situation. Focusing on one thing at a time, prioritizing addressing issues that are within your control, and tackling them individually can prevent feeling overwhelmed.

Pausing and reflecting allows one to take a moment to breathe and reassess the situation, helping regain composure and prevent knee-jerk reactions. Setting boundaries involves clearly communicating limits to manage emotional and task overload within the family setting. Reflective listening reinforces that you are truly listening by summarizing what was said and inviting further discussion on what feels most pressing.

Modeling calmness by exhibiting a calming presence encourages others, especially children, to mirror that state of calm. Physical comfort and affirmation, such as providing physical comfort like hugs and verbal affirmations, can reinforce safety and emotional stability.

Teaching Emotional Regulation

Teaching emotional regulation isn’t about instructing but role modeling by managing our emotions effectively. Encouraging children to express their feelings healthily and constructively ensures they learn to navigate their emotions wisely.

In closing, recognizing and addressing the “flood the zone” strategy within our families allows us to create a space of understanding and tranquility. By employing these methods, we can dismantle stress and maintain harmony in our personal lives. For more insights and full podcast discussions, visit Zen Parenting Radio’s website and stay connected with our updates.

We hope these insights help bring calm and balance to your family life. Keep growing and nurturing your understanding of self and others. Happy parenting!

Transcript

[00:00:00]

Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd, this is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 801. We broke the 800 barrier and now we’re at 8 0 1. Bring on 900, sweetie. Mm-hmm . In about two years. I like your

Cathy: green headband today.

Todd: Thank you. I like it too.

Cathy: Are you okay with the fact that the heater’s on?

Todd: Oh, no. I’m not. Todd doesn’t like white noise. I don’t. Um, why this is Ed Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding. And I always remember our motto, which is the best predictor of a child’s well being is a parent’s self understanding. The main theme on today’s show is called flooding the zone. Flood the zone.

Todd: Where did you get this crazy phrase from?

Cathy: It’s a political tactic, sometimes a negotiation tactic. It’s funny because [00:01:00] they kind of talked 30 rock many, many, many years ago. Remember when, uh, when Liz. Uh, it has to negotiate a contract with Jack Donaghy and there’s like, I felt like they use this terminology or something similar because the whole idea, but that’s not really where it’s from.

Cathy: It’s from our, uh, politics of today that. There is a, um, this was created by Steve Bannon, and the whole idea is you have a bunch of things come out at once, and it’s so overwhelming that people can’t focus on one thing. So you flood the zone with information, with fear, with threats, with, um, news decisions, and then the media and human beings don’t know.

Cathy: It

Todd: reminds me of a movie I think in the 80s or the 90s called Class Action or Civil Action with John Travolta. Yeah. [00:02:00] And, um, they represent a smaller law firm and they’re going up against a much bigger one and what the much bigger one does to the smaller one is delivers like crates and crates of boxes of information.

Todd: I feel like that’s an example of flooding the zone.

Cathy: It is. And that’s a more literal form. physical flood the zone like make them have to read. But flood the zone is usually about information. And what I wanted to do today is talk about it in terms of how to manage when they’re the zone is being flooded, but also how to relate this understanding to your own family.

Cathy: So. So this isn’t, this is less about talking about politics and more about managing our own peace of mind, um, because there are ways to, to understand what’s happening. So you don’t have to get into your, um, fight, flight, freeze or fawn because that’s what most people do is they get into like a fear response.

Cathy: So we’re going to decrease the fear response by understanding what flood the zone is and then how it shows up in our family and [00:03:00] then what to do. And I really. Um, you know, as I was going through this, you’ll like it if you, I don’t know if you read through what I wrote here, but it’s very connected to what we talk about all the time.

Cathy: There’s really not a lot new here. It’s just taking what we talk about already on Zen Parenting and applying it to something that probably happens not only when you’re listening to the news, but in your own home when you’re maybe having challenges with your family.

Todd: So this, um, This conversation is going to be broken into three parts.

Todd: The one which you already started, which is like what this phrase means. Correct. Flood the Zone. But we’re going to probably spend more of our time about how it shows up in our families and what to do about it.

Cathy: Yeah, so why don’t we just start by going over, is there any other like things you have to know before we jump in?

Cathy: Okay, so again, Flood the Zone is, is the whole intention is to distract, confuse, or control the narrative, where everybody is like, gets hyper focused on one specific thing, and you, and the only way like, out of it is what, you know, my favorite thing to talk about critical thinking and [00:04:00] then having a strategic response.

Cathy: What, what is this strategic response? You know, again, staying calm. Being mindful, getting focused, stepping back, a lot of those things. So we’ll go through them though. Uh, there’s about, there was many, but I just took six. Okay. Number one, be very clear about your core values. Okay. So what matters the most right now, rather than get involved in a bunch of things that maybe you don’t know as much about, or you’re getting really upset about, it’s like.

Cathy: What matters right now? What can I do? Okay. What can I focus on? Um, what is most meaningful in my life or what am I most educated on and what can I do? Yeah. So what matters most? I like it. Okay. So prioritize and filter. So I, all this means is identify that a lot of it’s noise, like Ezra Klein wrote an, uh, an opinion piece for the New York times over the [00:05:00] weekend and it was just called don’t believe him.

Cathy: And it’s just about the whole idea that sometimes we take every single thing we hear and we make it fact and we’re like, this is happening and this is happening and there’s power over us and, and the goal is, is to, it’s not that you pretend there’s no threats in the world, what you do is you filter out noise and try not to get worked up about things that people are Trying to get you worked up about, which is a funny joke from your family that we have.

Cathy: Do you know what I’m talking about? Which is a joke, I don’t remember. One time when we were at Thanksgiving dinner and your dad was kind of like throwing out bombs, like wanting to talk about religion and politics.

Todd: He was saying some things that can be perceived as controversial. And then when some of us expressed our opinion back, he invited us not to get all riled up about the things that he initiated.

Cathy: And Todd was like, yeah, don’t get me so riled up. Don’t get so riled up about these things. I’m trying to get you riled up about, you know, and [00:06:00] so look through that, like recognize what somebody could be one person in your family. Cause again, we’re going to relate this to your family or it could be something in the news or you have to think about who’s the messenger, right?

Cathy: And what’s the intention like to rile you up, right? It’s clickbait stuff. Number three, pause and reflect. Mindfulness. Breathe. No surprises. Um, don’t react immediately. Don’t get overly triggered and start making your TikTok video about how pissed you are. Like just, you know, relax. This is

Todd: an important one.

Todd: Um, there’s something that was going on with some of my friends and one guy said one thing and another guy was really reactive. He’s like, you know what, I’m not going to engage right now because I know that I’m all riled up. Right. And, you know, there are times when you need to engage in that moment, but if it can wait, it probably is a good idea to chill out.

Todd: And, you know, we’re going to talk about family and parenting in a few minutes here, but that’s a super important one is if we can engage with [00:07:00] some. Consciousness as opposed to reactivity, it will most likely go a lot better.

Cathy: We had a really good conversation with your sister and JC about this a couple months ago.

Cathy: Because we were talking about that paradox between sharing what you feel, which is really important, and You know, if you’re really having big emotion, having the space to share it, but simultaneously recognizing when you are not in control and that you don’t want to, because you’re having a feeling, be like, right now I’m going to dump and ask for what I need and demand that people listen to me because you’ll, you will be, if other people are trying to not.

Cathy: You know, deal with flooding the zone. They may filter a lot of that out. They may not listen because the emotion is way too high and you have to recognize that there’s nothing inherently wrong with your emotion. That’s not a problem. But don’t dump that on other people that have a clarity of intention before you begin a conversation about your feelings.

Cathy: [00:08:00] So pausing and reflecting is really important. Um, one of my favorite words of all time, cause now we’re on number four, engage with discernment. Okay, so asking clarifying questions about, again, this is a little similar to core values, but core values is being more about clear about yourself. Like what can I do, you know, who am I, what’s most important to me, am I going to get wrapped up in drama or am I just going to focus on the safety of my kid, you know, make it whatever it may be.

Cathy: Um, but this is more like how do we focus on one thing at a time? Like let’s discern what really necessitates, um, my energy because there’s a lot of things that I hear. You know, that are going on in the world, be it political or media or, um, you know, things that are local, you know, a new restaurant going in or one going out where you get really, like, worked up about it and we get angry at the whole system and we’re like, everything’s broken.

Cathy: And, you know, we have this, like, overarching belief system about. That everything sucks and discernment [00:09:00] is like, okay, what’s really happening here because the flooding the zone again, as we’re getting too much information at once, you know, what can we focus on right this second that can maybe bring more clarity to this issue and then go from that point.

Todd: Sure. What can you control? What can you not control? How do you, you know, we’re talking about more macro here, but, um, how much news do you take in

and

Todd: from what vehicles do you take them in from? Those are all important questions. Okay, and then you, uh, you jumped from four to six.

Cathy: I know, cause I got rid of a bunch of them.

Cathy: Cause I, um, the next one is educate and empower. So obvious this is, this is again, another one of my favorite things, critical thinking. So a big part of restoring our girls. My most recent book is there’s a whole section about critical thinking and making sure. We are engaging in and teaching critical thinking to our girls.

Cathy: Okay. When I say teaching, it’s not like we’re going through bullet points and saying this is what it is. We’re engaging in critical thinking skills when we’re [00:10:00] communicating with our girls, when our girls are watching us deliberate something, or when we’re figuring something out, we are utilizing our critical thinking skills.

Cathy: What does that mean? It means to recognize, first of all, that we are being overwhelmed with information and saying, okay, we need to. you know, to not be so overly triggered. And then to start kind of figuring out, like, Todd, you already just said this about, um, you know, where are you getting your information?

Cathy: Now, who said this? Um, let’s talk about the likelihood. Yeah. What’s

Todd: real, what’s opinion, what’s fact, what’s truth, what’s a guess, you know, all that. What

Cathy: can we do? What can we not do like part of critical thinking is the macro and the micro, you know, like what, what can I do something about what is out of my locus of control?

Cathy: What is something that’s so grand that there’s certain things that used to keep me up at night that now I’m like, there’s no point because it’s not that I can’t make an impact. I can, but I’m much more discerning. about how I’m going to make an impact rather than staying up and [00:11:00] this is family and world.

Cathy: Like I can stay up thinking about the world and nervous about everything. I can stay up thinking about my daughters and all of the, you know, young people that I care about worrying about them, but that’s not helping anybody, you know, it’s actually creating more. challenge for me and then I’m, I’m less in, I’m less capable to support them because I’m drowning myself in worry.

Cathy: So Todd, those are what flooding the zone, you know, knowing your core values, prioritize and filter, pause and reflect, you know, slow down, um, and make sure you’re discerning and then educate and empower. So, you know, this time at any time in life, if you’re wanting your kids to understand. How to engage politically in their school or in a job opportunity, just engagement overall.

Cathy: You have to talk to them about how to do that. Like, you have to talk to them about being thoughtful about something. Like, let me give an [00:12:00] example that’s really, like, minor. So, um, because it came up on an interview that I did a couple months ago, where someone was talking about clothes that our kids wear.

Cathy: Okay? So She, this woman was saying that she was worried about her daughter wearing a certain outfit. I think it was to the airport. And she’s like, I just don’t, cause it was really, cause what kids wear nowadays is like a lot of, um, you know, sweatshirts, you know, very like low key, casual, comfy clothes. And she was worried from her like Gen X mindset that people would think about her a certain way.

Cathy: Maybe perceive her as lazy. Maybe. You know, think of her as not being thoughtful about what she’s wearing. So, there’s a whole bunch of things to talk about in there. Number one, part of critical thinking is let’s really, like, look at that. Is that true? Like, let’s look at the fashion of kids now. All kids.

Cathy: And when I say kids, I’m saying, like, Gen Z ers. And, and younger sweatpants is like what they wear. Sure. Like there’s a podcast called call her daddy. And if [00:13:00] you’ve ever watched, you know, clips from it, cause they also record it. Not only does Alex Cooper, the host wear sweatpants all the time, but she has her guests do the same thing.

Cathy: Like encourages them to come and swap pants. Now, let me be clear. The makeup is all there. The hair is done up. The nails are perfect. Like there’s a. It’s, it’s not about I’m going to like be low key because there’s, their makeup is, you know what I mean?

Sure.

Cathy: But there’s a, there’s a fashion that maybe a Gen X parent may not recognize.

Cathy: So that’s part of it. And it’s also, how important is it to really talk to our kids about what they wear to the airport? Like who are we trying to impress?

Todd: Yeah. I, that, that’s where I was going to kind of zero in on like. Who cares?

Cathy: Right, and that’s a good conversation, right? And then, but then taking that opportunity, you know, as long as we’re like milling through this.

Cathy: Now, if you were going to go to a job interview, Yeah, you’d want to be thoughtful about what you wear.

Todd: If you’re going to a funeral, you’re going to church, there’s certain places that require a certain level of, I don’t know what the word is, [00:14:00] respectful.

Cathy: At least thoughtful choices, like you may choose a suit and this generation may be like, we’re not really wearing a suit, but we will wear something that is not sweatpants.

Cathy: You know what I mean? Like there’s all sorts of space in there for a conversation because I think what we end up doing instead is we demand certain things that we think are right. And there’s no, there’s no like taking that apart or discerning or like, let’s really think through this. Um, that’s a practice.

Cathy: And if we have all the answers. with our kids. If we’re giving answers, here’s what you do. Here’s what you say. Here’s how you do it. They will not develop critical thinking. And, and I’m talking about something very benign, like an outfit. You know, I think about when they’re getting in relationships and when they’re making choices for their jobs or when they’re making choices of where to live, we want them to have practice

in,

Cathy: in discerning what’s most important right now.

Cathy: What do I want? Who am I? Does this make sense? Is this important? And the only way to. Learn that is to do it.

Todd: Yeah, so so [00:15:00] we’re gonna break down I maybe some or all of these of how it shows up in family, right? But this is from your notes, they can show up in various ways and families often from an unconscious pattern So it’s not like you’re deciding to do this.

Todd: It just is what you’re used to doing So you keep doing it usually manifests when emotions are high boundaries are unclear or people are trying to gain control in a situation

Cathy: so Just to differentiate, Todd just read this, but maybe as a political strategy, this is intentional. This is like, we are going to get people so messed up and so in their feelings and in their, you know, fight and flight that we’re going to be able to get all these things done in a family.

Cathy: It may be more unconscious based on. Their history, that this is how they perceived their family and that it was kind of chaotic. And there’s this chaotic energy that always goes along with any discussion.

Todd: Um, so just for fun, I decided to pull up some clips from movies. And basically [00:16:00] I did a search something like, you know, where parents just don’t do that good of a job talking to their kids.

Todd: What language did you put in? You really wrote that? Uh, I don’t remember what I said. It was just something like top ten movie scenes where parents lecture. It was more about the lecturing piece. So all these examples, and I’m not, we’re not going to play them all at once, and maybe I won’t even get to all of them.

Todd: Uh, but they make me laugh, and I like to laugh sometimes, so. Alright, let’s hear it. I’m sure you’ll hear one, and this is probably maybe a minute long, but maybe I’ll cut it off earlier.

Russ, you know, I wouldn’t do anything to hurt your mom. It’s been a long drive and, geez, I worked, I worked very hard for you and Audrey and your mom.

I guess when you get older, you get these feelings and these Feelings make you do things you wouldn’t normally do. Like swimming naked with girls. Yeah, like swimming [00:17:00] naked with girls. With, well not with girls, you think I would swim with girls? The waitress. It was just one girl I saw. Was that that girl?

Oh no, that’s a waitress. No, I was just ordering in. She’s a pool waitress. I was ordering in some fish for you. Audrey, Mom. She took your order? She took my order, yeah. Swimming waitress. You understand, don’t you, Russ? Sure, I understand. You think Mom will buy?

Good talk, son. Go to bed, Russ. Yeah.

Cathy: First of all, before we move on, Anthony Michael Hall is the best Rusty in all the movies.

Todd: Except for the European Rusty.

Cathy: No. Oh my gosh, Todd. The European Vacation Rusty is not a good Rusty. He has two funny moments. Anthony Michael Hall is the best straight man as far as like setting up jokes [00:18:00] and being able to just be funny by being the smartest person in the car.

Cathy: Do

Todd: you know what I mean? He is wonderful.

Cathy: Right.

Todd: I’m not gonna, I really think European vacation Rusty is better. I just think it’s cause everybody hates him. So I just kind of come to his side. Oink, oink. Oink, oink, my good man. Well, anyway, so great scene. Yeah, right? He kind of lectures, um, Yeah, basically spewing lies while doing it.

Todd: Correct. Not the best way to connect with your kid.

Cathy: Trying to control the conversation. Trying

Todd: to control the conversation.

Cathy: Um, also trying to put in a lot of like, let me put some emotion behind this. I work really hard for you. Your mom, you know, also then putting in these things that he may not understand when you get older Yeah, things happen like swimming naked with waitresses.

Todd: Swim in naked with girls. Um, you ready for the second one? Sure

So where culture is like New York, or at least Connecticut or New Hampshire where writers live in the woods. Get into those schools anyway. Mom! You can’t even pass your [00:19:00] driver’s test. You wouldn’t let me practice enough. The way that you work, or the way that you don’t work, you’re not even worth state tuition, Christine.

My name is Lady Bird. Well, actually, it’s not, and it’s ridiculous. Call me Lady Bird, like you said you would. You should just go to City College. You know, with your work ethic, just go to City College, and then to jail, and then back to City College, and then maybe you’d learn to pull yourself up, and not expect everybody to be everything.

Todd: Oh boy.

Cathy: Flooding the zone

Todd: with all the negative things I can tell you about yourself. That’s a good zone flooding example.

Cathy: Absolutely. It’s, and that’s Lady Bird, by the way, Todd and I use that a lot at the conference for the last couple of years, just because it is a very strained mother daughter relationship.

Cathy: relationship where they can’t find, like, even when they start, because right before that scene that you just played, they’re listening to a book on tape. They both love it. They’re both crying. They’re both like into it and they connect on that level like literature. Right. And then All

Todd: of a

Cathy: sudden. All of a sudden.

Cathy: Yeah. It just goes off the [00:20:00] rails.

Todd: Are you ready for another one? Sure. Um, so this is one movie with multiple, um, scenes back to back. They’re short. Um, and everybody who listens to this podcast will know what this is from.

All right.

The drop off. I can’t believe you can’t get me out of this. It’s so absurd I have to be here on a Saturday. It’s not like I’m a defective or anything. I’ll make it up to you. Honey, do you think if I ask to go shopping, it doesn’t make you a defective? Have a good day.

It’s the first time or the last time we do this? Last. Well, get in there and use the time to your advantage. Mom, we’re not supposed to study. We just have to sit there and do nothing. Well, mister, you figure out a way to study. Yeah. [00:21:00] Well, go! Hey,

I screwed around. Guys screw around. There’s nothing wrong with that. Except you got caught, sport. Mom already raved me, alright? You wanna miss a match? You wanna blow your ride? Not all school is gonna give a scholarship to a discipline case.

Todd: And that’s about enough. There’s three. There’s some really not that good parenting going on right there.

Cathy: Well, let’s instead of, well, yeah, it’s a movie, so we can say that easily, but. It is, they’re all coming from their own place of worry. So, for example, the first one, Claire’s dad, he isn’t flooding the zone, he’s being passive and apologetic.

Cathy: Yeah, and

Todd: he’s like,

Cathy: I’ll make it

Todd: up to you.

Cathy: Correct. For what? But that’s because his whole thing probably, or at least the setup, is that Her parents [00:22:00] aren’t really around. They’re busy. And he feels

Todd: guilty for not being around. So he’s gonna bail her out of a situation that she put herself into, which is ditching class to go shopping.

Cathy: But he didn’t get her out of it. She still had to go. The, um, Anthony Michael Hall’s character. He, his mom, that’s his mom in real life. His mom and sister in that scene, by the way. Um, but she is definitely flooding it because she is like saying all these things about him that have nothing to do with, you know, there’s no discernment about what are we doing here today.

Cathy: And if we know the story of the breakfast club, they found a gun in his locker. Now it was a flare gun, um, which they found humor in, but that’s, that’s a conversation with your child, right? And then Andrew, his dad’s definitely flooding the zone because he’s all of a sudden worried about college. You know, and you’re not going to get a scholarship.

Todd: Um, should we play? I have, I think, two more. Oh, no, I only have one more, maybe. So,

Cathy: Todd, I want to ask you a question. Sure, babe. Andrew Clarke’s [00:23:00] dad.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: You know that guy? Sure, of course. He’s, he plays like the Chicago Cop in every single Yeah. He’s

Todd: also the coach in Rudy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He’s a, that guy.

Todd: He’s a, that guy. Yeah. Actually, I think I only have one more to share and it’s kind of a heavier ones. We may not want to go there. Yeah.

Cathy: Let’s keep going with the, these ideas. And then if we have time, you know, but you know, we’ll get too far. So, you know, it was,

Todd: it was Neil Perry’s father,

Cathy: Neil, my son,

Todd: Neil, my son,

Cathy: dad poets.

Todd: Yeah. So let’s go back into how this shows up in families.

Cathy: Okay. So how does this show up in families where we’ve already talked about what flooding the zone is? So what does it look like? Um, I just, I broke out, how many did I break out? Four? Five? Five. The first one is like overloading all these issues at once, kind of like Andrew’s father was in that moment, kind of like instead of dealing with what’s happening right there, you not only need to feel bad about getting this detention, you need to feel bad about you may not get a scholarship, you’re not going to go to college, you’re going to be some, you know, juvenile [00:24:00] delinquent case, Um, like too many things at once.

Todd: And as you share in your notes, another way of saying that is you never help with the dishes. You’re always late. And last week you ignored my text, right? Like those are three very separate things and you’re just hitting the person over the head with all three of them at once. Uh, not a very productive way of going about it.

Cathy: And then the person like this could go both ways. Your kid could be saying this to you or you could be saying this to your kid. The impact of it though, is it’s hard to address the issue because there’s too many things happening at once. There’s too many things being dictated or, you know, there’s too many grievances.

Cathy: So it’s like, okay, what are we going to focus on here? Really? The point of that is just full on criticism, right? It’s just, I’m going to be critical of you. So anything else about too many issues at once? No, I don’t

Todd: think so.

Cathy: Okay. So emotional flooding, um, this, this, you know, is really common. I find when I talk to parents and I’ve had plenty of experiences with it, where a kid comes home and just [00:25:00] is like, I failed this test and no one talked to me at lunch and my teachers hate me.

Cathy: And I don’t know what classes I’m going to take next year. I don’t know if, you know, I’m going to make the team and you’re like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right.

Todd: Let’s break this up. Sparky and some bite sized pieces.

Cathy: And you can understand, especially if it’s a teenager who’s doing this, um, that their brain is taking them to those places.

Cathy: So this is not a time to be critical or to make fun of them. Again, if you understand the teenage brain, there is a lot of it’s open and fluid and has all these thoughts and creative thoughts, but that creativity can also take them down a negative path. And so it’s less about. What’s wrong with you? Why would you say all these things?

Cathy: And more about, okay, let’s help them emotionally regulate, right? Let’s like, get them back into a place where they can focus. And if we don’t know the, um, the root issue, like really what was it’s, it’s less about putting in order, but sometimes it’s kind of like, what’s the first thing that happened? That drove this mindset.

Cathy: [00:26:00] So sometimes my thought is, um, you know, with the girls, when this happens is, wow, that sounds like a lot, what a day kind of like, just join them in their feelings

Todd: instead of starting with trying to figure it out. It’s like, which of these three things should we be focusing on right now? What you’re saying is don’t focus on any of them yet and just empathize with whatever emotion happens to be showing up.

Cathy: Very first thing is, is that that sounds like a lot. Whoa. And, you know, depending on your relationship with your kid, if you can be funny about it, like that sounds overwhelming or whatever, you’re not making fun of them. You’re just, I, you are relating, but then you can say something to the effect of, I’m trying to put myself in those shoes right now.

Cathy: What I would say, I’d probably say one, Are the other of these things, I’d say, what happened first, like, when did you start this cycle? Like not the cycle of thinking, but what was the first thing that happened that kind of made you go, Oh, today’s not going to be great. Cause then you can get to a core or which of the things that you just said is bothering you the [00:27:00] most, because maybe then you can get all the other stuff.

Cathy: It’s just kind of like peripheral, which is just validating this feeling that they’re having, but really the issue, like sometimes a kid will come home and be like, I failed a test. You know, my tutor’s not showing up. Um, you know, I don’t know what classes to take next year. And then you’re like, what’s bothering you the most?

Cathy: And they’re like, my friend never texted me back. And it has nothing to do with those things.

Todd: It’s sometimes easier to share the other stuff, but the one that’s really hitting me in the core is so vulnerable. I don’t even want to go there. Yeah. So they might rattle off three or four things, not.

Todd: Understanding that it may be none of those things.

Cathy: Exactly. So this one I think is very common and I think the goal is, is to not just like flooding in the media, don’t get wrapped up in every issue they just said to you. Be more conscious of first validating and then asking. Is there anything we can tackle today?

Cathy: Maybe another thing is, is, is any of these that you just said, can I help you with any of [00:28:00] them? You know, what is, you know, what does support look like right now? Or, I don’t like when people are like, what does support look like for you today? That’s, that’s so How can I help you? Yeah, how can I help? Sounds like a rough day.

Cathy: Um, so, you know, sometimes my help, my girls have made fun of me before because sometimes when all the things they rattle off I know I can’t do anything or saying, I’ll help you study. They’re like, no, you’re not going to help me study. I say things like, Hey. Let’s get an iced tea or, you know, let’s have a Coke with dinner or, you know, something to break up, break it up.

Cathy: And they’re so used to me saying stuff like that, that they’ll be like, mom,

yeah,

Cathy: iced tea is not going to help in this situation. And, and in no, and what they know when things calm down is I don’t really believe in iced tea is going to change their mind. What it is, is I’m trying to break up the monotony a little bit and be like, let’s focus on something.

Cathy: We both like. You know what I mean? Like, let’s grab an iced tea or something, and then we can talk through this. It’s not about spiritually [00:29:00] bypassing or jumping over what they’re saying. It’s like, let’s put a pause in, so.

Todd: It’s like that part in Parenthood where Diane Weist’s character is, um, they, she just repaired with her daughter and she offers to make fresh cut French fries.

Todd: Right! And she’s so excited. My mom used to do that more when I was sick, but, um, yeah, something bad was happening. French cut. Deep fried french fries is a good way to turn my bad mood into a good mood.

Cathy: And there’s some things like if your kid failed a test and they’re struggling with their friends and they don’t know what team they’re going to be on, you really can’t do anything about that.

Cathy: So what you can do is offer comfort and with your individual kid, you know what comfort looks like for them. For Todd, it’s french fries. For another kid, it’s come sit with me. For another kid, it’s do you want to watch our show tonight? And you’re not trying to necessarily, uh, there’s a little bit of a distraction in it, of course, but it’s also about soothing, you know, like we can look at it through multiple lenses.

Cathy: Like some people may say, Oh, you’re just distracting them or no, I’d like to soothe [00:30:00] them so they can get to a place where they can handle these things. So. The next one. Um, this one is more parent flooding where parents are over explaining, um, where, because they’re so anxious and they’re trying to make a point that they just talk and talk and talk like what Clark Griswold did.

Cathy: Yeah. You know, I work really hard for, you know, your mom and you and Audrey, and sometimes this happens and, oh, it’s no big deal. And so you’re, it’s just too much information. It’s like long lectures. And so basically what your kid ends up doing is tuning you out.

Todd: Um, I want to go back to the last one real quick.

Cathy: Yeah, sure.

Todd: And I, I don’t know where I found this quote somewhere online. I thought it was really good. It is more, I don’t think it was through the lens of a men’s group, but, and I just want your opinion on whether or not this would be helpful when you’re trying to help your kid regulate him or herself.

Todd: And it says this. Feel it all. Don’t leave any corner unturned. Don’t for a second disconnect from this pain. It will be the best [00:31:00] teacher you’ve ever had. Seems very luxury, doesn’t it? But I think it’s really good. Whatever you don’t, whatever you don’t let yourself feel now, just know you’ll have to work harder to feel it later.

Todd: Trust me, it will suck more. Get through all this crap right now and don’t forget. We got you.

Cathy: Well, yeah. Definitely don’t. Isn’t is, but it also does sound like you wrote it down and the girls definitely have your number when you do something like that. So, so what

Todd: is your translation of that?

Cathy: Okay, so first of all, we showed a clip at the conference from Little Miss Sunshine that Steve Carell.

Cathy: Oh yeah, that’s right. That’s exactly. That’s right. To Paul Dano’s character where he basically says, Paul Dano’s like, I wish I could just opt out of teenage time and high school and it just all sucks. And Steve Carell’s like, man. You know, he tells the story, but he’s like, what I know is that your most angsty years, like angst is what teaches you lessons about yourself.

Cathy: Like having really difficult times is what makes you a better person. And he’s like, and these are prime years, these teenage years [00:32:00] to really struggle.

Didn’t learn a thing. So, if you sleep until you’re 18, oh, think of the suffering you’re gonna miss. I mean, high school? High school, those are your prime suffering years.

They don’t get better suffering than that.

Todd: That’s

Cathy: good enough, right? And yeah, and, and that is, so Todd, I think the thing always is, and you and I have these discussions all the time, there’s good information, that quote came from somebody else.

Yeah.

Cathy: The intention behind the quote is excellent. The quote itself is somebody else.

Cathy: So you have to understand the intention of it and relay it in a way that is, sounds like you. So what would I do with that quote? I would say something to the effect of if, you know, we were kind of going down that path of, wow, a lot happens like. You’re right. A lot happens during this time. And this is like how brain development works and it totally sucks.

Cathy: And it’s like, sometimes you’re given more than you can handle. Sometimes it’s so overwhelming, [00:33:00] but that is the way we learn all the things. And it’s just, uh, you know, light and dark, the paradox of good and bad. Like we become better people when we go through something that requires us to be resilient.

Cathy: Now I would say though, don’t say that when they’re at the top of the issue.

Todd: And the top, you mean in the middle of it?

Cathy: The top or middle. When they’re telling, the top, I mean, I’m sorry, that’s not a good descriptor. When they’re telling you their feelings about it for the first time, if you say, well, you’ll get something out of it, that’s very passive.

Todd: It’s a bypass. Correct. What’s interesting is, I think the reason I think of that quote or the energy behind that quote is because I judged that Adults are better at numbing out from the pain than our kids. I feel like our kids and in this is maybe a whole nother podcast topic, but I think our kids are good at feeling the sadness and feeling the pain and feeling the anger and feeling the fear.

Todd: And I think as we grow older, we’re like, this really hurts. So I’m going to go get on my laptop or I’m going to go have a beer. I’m going to go [00:34:00] go work out to not feel whatever it is that I’m. going through right now. So I don’t know. I feel like it’s the energy of that quote is probably better. And of course it has value from a parent to a child, but I think it has more value to a group of people that are better at numbing out.

Cathy: Yeah, and so why do we do those things? Why do parents get so uncomfortable when their kids come home and they have a lot of feeling? It’s there’s, there’s a lot of reasons, but the two that I tend to narrow it down to is you think to yourself, I had to go through this too, and I figured it out. So get your act together and figure it out, which sometimes figure it out means numb it out, be stoic, quit talking about it, deal with it yourself.

Cathy: So there’s a lot of like numbing behavior around it. And the other one is just that the acknowledgement of how Uncomfortable it is to see our kids uncomfortable that we again, maybe do the same behavior of quieting it down because it’s bringing up emotion in ourselves. So we have to learn how to emotionally regulate when our kids are struggling.

Cathy: Like, and you know, one [00:35:00] thing that’s really great is like I was with one of my best girlfriends this weekend and you know, we were talking about sometimes texts we get from our kids and so much, even our kids, you know, they go to school in different places, but the language is so the same in text. It’s like.

Cathy: You know, they’ll send one Texas, like I’m freaking out, you know, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? But, you know, and they like, kind of just give you all of the feelings they’re having at any moment. And like, and then if you were like to not react five minutes later, it’s like, okay, I made it, I made it on the plane or okay.

Cathy: I made it to the class. Okay. And so having some humor with other parents, not laugh again, not laughing at our kids, but like acknowledging how our kids utilize us. Yeah. To regulate themselves and if we get really worked up into it, then we’re not, we’re not of any value.

Todd: So I feel like I interrupted. I wanted to go back one.

Todd: So let’s go back to where we were. Where were we? Um, So

Cathy: I think I, I finished by talking about parent parental over explaining, which we said was kind of like that vacate scene from vacation and [00:36:00] Clark Griswold. And now we’re talking about sibling stuff. Um, You know, this is sibling stuff, but I really believe this can happen in partnership and in in friendship where you’re having an argument about something and all of a sudden you start piling on all the things they’ve ever done over their lifetime.

Cathy: So, you know, like siblings may say, well, 5 years ago, you pushed me and that’s why I have this scar and you suck like, you know, we have this life. History with these people we love in partnership. People do it all the time. Yeah,

Todd: that’s that’s where I get I don’t have a lot of space for that I’ve talked to some friends of mine and they’ll be in an argument with their partner and their partner will bring up stuff from like two years ago and that’s so like It’s, it’s an interesting indicator on the health of a relationship because It tells you one of two things one is they didn’t deal with this two years ago And the other is like they weaponized something that happened two years ago That’s still coming [00:37:00] back right now like and I understand how we can all fall into that trap So I’m not judging but that’s that’s really I don’t know what the word is.

Todd: Toxic. That’s, that’s rough.

Cathy: So let’s like parse this out. Let’s do some discernment right here, because in many ways I agree with you. Like if you had something that bothered you and you never brought it up and you, the word you use that’s excellent is weaponized it where you’re like, well, I never. You know, I didn’t give you crap about this thing, but I’m going to bring it back up now and throw it in your face.

Cathy: That is weaponization, but I think you can relate to this with you and I, there are things from our history that come back and I do need to bring it back up and I’m not trying to weaponize it. I’m not trying to bring you down. I’m trying to say this issue that you and I have like tackled and it’s kind of cyclical.

Cathy: It like comes back. I do need to bring it up again and I need to recognize why this is bothering me now. And it’s not about the unresolved. It’s, it’s about, you know, I didn’t realize. Why this bothers [00:38:00] something

Todd: else got uncovered,

Cathy: correct? Yeah, so there’s a vibe to because I agree with you like I know what you’re talking about when someone brings up stuff That’s old that should have been resolved Yeah, and that person is just bringing it up to hurt or to say I have more on you Yeah, they’ve been like saving

Todd: it saving it for the next time they get really pissed

Cathy: Yeah And there’s a sense of like contempt there like where you’re like you kind of suck and I’m gonna tell you why yeah But bringing up an issue just because I know sometimes people take our words very seriously around this, if there’s something that is bothering you that happened four or five years ago and you didn’t, and you’re now recognizing it because of a new awareness or in therapy, it came up, it’s okay to bring up things from your past.

Cathy: Of

Todd: course. As long as you’re not like saving it up for winning an argument next Tuesday. There’s a different

Cathy: vibe. Yeah. Right.

Todd: Um, okay.

Cathy: So that’s piling on escalating the tension on purpose and where someone feels ganged up upon. Like this can happen, you know, like when you’re in a friendship group and everybody starts kind of laughing at one person [00:39:00] or they’ll be like, Oh, remember how stupid they were or whatever.

Cathy: And then that person’s like, this isn’t funny anymore. Like all of a sudden I’m the butt of all the jokes and you know, we don’t want to do that to people. It makes us feel powerful or it makes us feel like we’re in on it or, but it’s cruel.

Yeah.

Cathy: Um. So the last one, as far as how this looks in a family, is decision making overload, like where family meetings, where we’re just basically supposed to decide where we’re going on vacation, starts to blend into, well, how are we going to feed the cat, and who’s going to do the chores, and, and should we go on vacation, and didn’t we go there last year, and all of a sudden, all these issues, we are, we are, we are flooding the zone with things that, that’s not why we’re having the meeting right now.

Cathy: You know what I mean? We’ll take those one thing at a time. So that just means decisions aren’t made efficiently. Like we’re not very, you know, then we get in disengaged and frustrated.

Todd: You know, it’s funny. I just did a little search on, you know, 10 examples of family meetings in the movies. The second one that came out was [00:40:00] Knives Out.

Todd: Do you remember the family meeting in Knives Out?

Cathy: There’s several. Which one?

Todd: Well, when they want to make sure that they get the guy’s money. and they all just kind of turn on each other in a really toxic way. It’s a really funny, interesting movie. They

Cathy: start like saying all these things that they haven’t said, and then Chris Evans leaves, right?

Todd: Yeah, right, right.

Cathy: That’s

a

Cathy: great movie, by the way. So interesting with family, right? So many like, Everybody, I don’t want to ruin that movie, but everybody has a reason. Everybody has like a grudge or something they’re working with. So those are the things Todd, how it shows up in families, overloading, too many issues at once, the emotional flooding, parental, overexplaining that that dynamic of ganging up, if it’d be on a sibling or a partner or a friend and then decision making overload.

Cathy: So. Let’s talk about how to handle it.

Todd: Okay, let’s do that. Um, what do we got? Name the pattern. You got to name it.

Cathy: Yeah, you got to name it.

Todd: Name it to tame it. Correct. Hopefully not from a place of [00:41:00] reactivity to say, hey, it seems like this is what’s happening right now.

Cathy: I think you’re good at this in your work world.

Cathy: I think you’ve been in and I think you are in family too, but I’m just using this as an example. I think you’re good at saying there’s a lot of things happening here. What thing can we do right now? Yeah. Don’t you think?

Todd: I, I, I don’t know. I can’t think of an example of a bunch of stuff getting thrown my way and parsing it out.

Cathy: I just remember like, and I know it’s not this much anymore, but at your like main job that you do. Yeah. There would be meetings sometimes where you’d be like, I’ll just bring an agenda. Yeah. Uh, let’s like focus on one thing at a time. You’re a good organizer. More

Todd: of a project management thing. And that it’s what kind of family meetings are about.

Todd: Can you do it in a way where everybody feels heard and it’s productive? So, yeah.

Cathy: And then the key to that project management thing, because again, everything’s a critical thinking is recognizing all the pieces and how we can, you know. Is show up. Someone can be a great organizer, but if they’re super type a or an Enneagram [00:42:00] one, and there’s a perfection to it or a way it has to go, you’re still going to lose people, even if you’re trying to, you have to recognize all the pieces, like, you know, one of our funny jokes in our family is Todd loves to play games, but sometimes he’s like, don’t have fun.

Cathy: Just play the game. Yeah. There was actually a great tick tock about, did I send it to you at like. There’s a game going on, this group of friends, and this person like focuses in on this one person who’s like gripping the table. And it said, um, all Brian wants to do is play the game and everybody’s laughing.

Cathy: Yes. You know?

Todd: I’m guilty of that. Yeah,

Cathy: there’s like a, there’s like a two, you’re holding too tight.

Todd: Mm hmm. Um, and then you, uh, the second thing is focusing on one thing at a time, which said another way is focusing on things you have control over and things that you don’t have control over.

Cathy: Yeah, like, you know, this could be for the world.

Cathy: Politically, this can be in your family. Like, let’s put all these, this noise aside right now. A lot of this stuff we can do nothing about, but let’s just deal with this thing. And we kind of talked about that when [00:43:00] there’s emotional flooding. Like, there’s a lot of things I know we can’t do anything about.

Cathy: Like our kids worried about something that’s going to happen in three weeks. So they’re, they’re big game or they’re big tournament and we can’t do anything about that. But what can we do right now? We can make sure that you get some good sleep. We can, you know, do things to soothe us, you know, like let’s, let’s nail this down or narrow it down.

Todd: I use this technique in my coaching a lot because a lot of times we’re worrying about things that are outside of our control. So I’m just going to, and I have them go through this list that I didn’t make, but I, I got as a result of my coaching stuff, things that are not in my control. You ready? My thoughts.

Todd: Now I can investigate my thoughts, but my thoughts just pop up. It’s not like we choose our thoughts, our feelings, our feelings just show up. Now, whether or not we push them down or express them in a healthy way, that is connected to our thoughts. Yeah, that’s, that’s something. Um, we don’t, we’re not in control of other people’s emotions.

Todd: We’re not in control of other people’s thoughts, um, we’re not in control of other people’s choices. [00:44:00] We’re not in charge of the weather. We’re not in charge. I am. You are?

Cathy: No, I’m not.

Todd: We can get on an airplane, I guess, and go to Florida, where it’s nice out. That’s one way we’re in charge of the weather. I guess.

Todd: Um, so it’s just, uh, an example of, I think, most. I spend a lot of my time worrying about things that I don’t have any control

Cathy: over. For sure. And, and, and that awareness, like this is why talking about flood the zone is so important. I think a lot of us go through the day really worried and stressed. I’ll give you an example that’s, you know, pretty minor.

Cathy: So Todd and I finished the conference like a week and a half ago. It was the last weekend, right? Not. Not yesterday, but like the weekend before and all this work that we’ve been doing for six months to get ready. So basically, anytime Todd and I had a free moment, we’re like, what can we get done for the conference?

Cathy: And then January, the three weeks leading up, we are on, you know, what? I was gonna say hard drive. That’s not it. We are overdrive. Okay. So, I’m having a hard time calming that [00:45:00] down in me. The conference is over and again, there’s plenty of work I can do, but I’m still in this mindset of like, I gotta wake up, I gotta, uh, uh, and there’s really

Todd: So in other words, your nervous system is used to being an overdrive.

Todd: Your surroundings are no longer forcing you to be on overdrive, yet you haven’t been able to shift out of that nervous system state.

Cathy: I have to become conscious of why am I feeling this way right now? Oh, that’s why? Well, that’s not true anymore. Yeah. So I don’t need to do that. I don’t have a deadline. I don’t have a deadline.

Cathy: I have other deadlines and I’m making those deadlines feel like the conference. Yeah. So I’m also putting the mentality of the conference, which is got a hard stop that we have to be ready. And not only that, but we have to perform like that’s a real, like you’re on at Saturday night live, right? You got to go on right now.

Cathy: The things that I have to get done, which are important, but they don’t have that kind of vibe to them. So when I’m having this, like real [00:46:00] amped up feeling, I want to be like, you’re fine. You can sit here for a second. You’re fine. Relax. So that necessitates, that’s emotional regulation. That’s also taking a pause, which is the next one, like pay attention.

Cathy: Cause there’s so many people in my life who are on overdrive all the time, no matter what. And I want to be like, where are you going? What do you think is happening next? Like I have a friend who sometimes will be like, I’m free from two 20. To 305. And I’m like, what, what’s happening? And, and there’s not a full time, you know, situation in there.

Cathy: Like, there, I know she has more flexibility. It’s not like she’s in an office and whatever. And I get it, but I’m also like, if we pay attention to that, we really do have more time than that.

Todd: In other words Some of us sometimes overschedule our lives in a way that we don’t really need to be doing

Cathy: that.

Cathy: And make every appointment the highest priority. Yeah. And it’s not.

Todd: And it goes back to the discernment, right?

Cathy: Goes back to [00:47:00] discernment. Goes back to even pulling it, yeah, the discernment in the moment and then pulling it back even further. Why am I creating all these, you know, things? And sometimes we need to.

Cathy: Yeah. Um, so. Pause and breathe, you know, we did name the pattern, focus on one thing at a time. The next one to handle flooding the zone is just to take a break and recognize what’s happening. You know, we kind of already said that. The next one is boundaries, which I think is really important when you’re in a conversation with your kid or your partner, that sometimes they will come in and emotionally flood the zone, right?

Cathy: There’s a lot of like, I’m feeling this way. And, you know, this have, okay. So in my book, I write about how kids do this at night a lot. You know what I mean? They’ll come in at 9 30 PM. You had all this time in the car. You had all this time at dinner, but now they want to talk. They are not trying to manipulate you.

Cathy: The only reason that’s happening is because their defenses are down, their vulnerabilities feel higher. It’s just, that’s what happens with the brain. Just like when you wake up at three in the morning and you’re anxious about something dumb, it’s because your defenses are down. [00:48:00] But we can have a boundary where we say, I have 15 minutes to have this conversation now, but I know I’ll fall asleep and I don’t want to do that to you.

Cathy: This is important. So let’s continue this conversation tomorrow. And I know the points that we’ll get to, I’ll even put them in my phone right now. Like you don’t have to be like, Oh, why are you asking me right now? That that’s minimized. Well, for

Todd: that, it’s not the. What you say, it’s how you say it

Cathy: correct and taking like you guys, there’s these things that we do as adults that then we give our kids permission to do the same and there have been times when definitely I’ve probably.

Cathy: Pushed myself too far and you know, they’ve seen that too But there’s been a lot of times where I’ve been like I totally can’t do this or I’m totally not gonna go to this And then what’s lovely is when you see your kids reciprocate them, you know when they’ll be like, this is too much for me I’m gonna do this tomorrow instead of now and you’re like, oh good like they’re recognizing their own boundaries as well so role modeling is how we [00:49:00] teach them to set boundaries.

Cathy: Like we can’t be boundary less.

Todd: Well, and we’re teaching our kids whether we like it or not. Correct. Based on how we’re living our life. And you know, we have a junior in high school who has a very busy life right now, and it’s so easy for me to judge her. And yesterday I I got off of a plane and this morning I unpacked my bags just so I can pack them up to go somewhere else today.

Todd: So your

Cathy: life is just as busy.

Todd: Yeah. So it’s so easy for me to judge her like, Hey, just calm down. I’m not calming down. So that’s the ownership piece.

Cathy: And you, and again, when I’m going to say this, I’m not trying to, it sounds mean the way I’m saying it, but you like it. This is how

Todd: I get my, well, I, I don’t know if I like it for her, but I like it for me.

Cathy: But your old programming, which a lot of it you’ve shifted, was kids should be busy all the time, they shouldn’t come home after school, they should have things going on. I

Todd: kind of let go of that a little bit. Um, there’s a balance, and this kid of [00:50:00] ours, I wish he would just slow Down a little bit because, you know, she’s, she’s getting sick, you know,

Cathy: literally like has a cold and, you know, they just won’t go away because their immune system, you know, they’re not, she is good at sleep.

Cathy: She has good sleep hygiene

Todd: for sure. You know, so many good things about how she navigates her day. Um, and I think my baggage is more. And I’ve let go, let go of this. It’s just the idea of, if the only thing you’re doing, and this is Todd from eight years ago, if the only thing you’re doing at school, you’re not doing any extracurricular or anything with your friends after school, and you’re just sitting there reading a book.

Todd: Now, today I’d be like, great. But eight years ago, I’d be like, that’s unacceptable. You have to, you have to join something

Cathy: and I don’t think that’s, and you

Todd: know, yeah, neither, and I don’t anymore either

Cathy: because it’s a moment in time because they will join things and they will have plans with their friends, but if they have a day where they don’t, it’s great because it’s good, calm time.

Cathy: So, um, so setting boundaries is the way to teach them is to set them. And again, boundaries aren’t, [00:51:00] you have to respect me. That’s not a boundary. Boundaries are, this is what I can do right now. And then I can do this later. Like it’s. Basically stating what you need so you can show up in the best way possible.

Cathy: The goal is that everybody ends up content, you know, like, and I, sometimes I forget, like sometimes everybody wants me to stay up late or to watch something or they’ll be like, mom, you have to come sit down. And I have to be like, you know what? I have to do this thing first. Then I will come in instead of just being at the mercy of everybody.

Cathy: So, okay. The next one, reflective listening. We’ve kind of already said this, um, in many ways. I’m

Todd: just going to read what you have in the notes. This is an example of what reflective listening to our kid might sound like. Sounds like you’re upset about your homework and feeling left out with your friends.

Todd: Which one feels more urgent to talk about first? What I like about that is it does two things. One is the kid knows that you’re paying attention to them. Yeah.

Cathy: I heard you. That’s the

Todd: most important thing. Right? And then the second thing is. It sounds like, and, and the fact, the fact that we’re inviting [00:52:00] them into a space of being able to decide, oh, yeah, because when we’re reactive, all these things are intermingled.

Todd: And the minute that somebody asks you to calm down and say, which one should we tackle first? You now have an awareness that you didn’t have. Many times when I’m coaching. Uh, my guys, they’ll come up with five different things. It’s not going well for them. And I’ll be like, let’s just focus on one today and let’s just see what happens.

Todd: And can you say that in a sentence or less or in one out breath? Because it’s hard because we want to share all the story behind it as well. But if you can put it into a sentence or two sentences, the clarity. Has in my experience been really helpful.

Cathy: Yeah, and they pick that one. What is one out breath

Todd: one out breath?

Todd: So it’s it’s a way to have not have a guy talk for two minutes So one out breath is the amount of words I can get out during one exhale.

Cathy: Mmm

Todd: Got it. [00:53:00] And even when I say that They still don’t do it.

Cathy: Right. Because it sounds jargony. It does. It sounds like, what does that mean? Like one out breath. And you’re just saying succinct.

Yeah.

Cathy: Tighten it up. Lovely.

Yeah.

Cathy: Lock in. Lock in. As Skyler would say. So that, the next one is model calm responses. So when others are flooding a zone. We respond with calm. So Todd and I have been doing this podcast for 14 years, as everybody knows. I think 15 now. 15 years. God, this is insane. Um, our girls were so little when we started.

Cathy: And the reason that’s important is that we used to be like rocking children to sleep. You know what I mean? These children who are now driving around and making choices for their lives. They, we used to be like, they’d be crying and we’d have to hold them or they’d be sick and they’d come in our bed. And the number one thing.

Cathy: To calm a child is to be calm. They are up against your body. They are watching you and the old, they have mirror neurons. They connect to what you’re doing. And if [00:54:00] you are calm, they will be calm. Now, when they get older, they may not be, you know, sometimes they still come into your bed and lay down with you or lay down with you on the couch.

Cathy: It’s not like they don’t touch at all, but a lot of times it’s more in the car or across. that from the island in the kitchen and they’re not, they’re just telling you, but if you are calm, they will be more calm. If you get worked up or start asking them a million questions, it’ll rev them up. Yeah,

Todd: for sure.

Todd: So much harder to do than you think.

Cathy: Right. Well, can I, I don’t know about you, but I can kind of notice like it when I start to get like, Ask a lot of questions and I have to be like, okay, relax, cause I’m flooding the zone with my questions. Of course. Cause I’m trying to be like, is it really that bad?

Yeah.

Cathy: You know? And who am I doing that for?

You.

Cathy: Me. Cause I don’t want to know that it’s that bad. So the last one is, uh, you know, another calm response. We haven’t talked about tax. We haven’t really talked about somatics is I’m still a very big hugger with my grown [00:55:00] children. Um, again, with this podcast being on so long, one of the things that Todd and I talked about a lot when they were.

Cathy: Entering into their like preteen years like 10 11 12. We would talk about how often we hugged them because If you don’t make that a point to do that, they may not be coming for it as much, and it will de normalize it, uh, make it less normal. So then getting a hug will feel kind of like embarrassing, and I never wanted them to get to that point.

Cathy: I wanted them to have it be so normal.

Todd: You gotta keep the streak going.

Cathy: Yes, like, I am not gonna stop hugging you, so then when you’re 20, you expect it.

Todd: And you got to do it in a way that fits for the kid because of our three children, one likes a certain type of embrace. One is fine with a kiss on the top of the head.

Todd: Um, so everybody has a different, um, I don’t know, comfort level with physical touch.

Cathy: Yeah. Like they have their own spatial awareness and that’s a boundary too, is you don’t [00:56:00] push through their boundary. Like he said, one of our kids really, she’s fine. She’ll like duck her head. Down so you can kiss her on the head and she’s fine with that, but if you try and do something more She doesn’t like it and to push through that and say but I want to give you a hug You’re not respecting their boundaries.

Cathy: So you try and figure out what’s comfortable for both of us and and that’s respect for each other so That’s one. And so the last thing here with how to handle flooding the zone is, of course, um, teaching emotional regulation. Now, I don’t, teaching, you know, I’m not a big fan of let me teach you kid how to do this.

Cathy: It’s all role modeling. Yes. And, you know, the example that I have here is about let’s take a deep breath. Kids don’t like it when you say breathe. Because they don’t watch you breathe, you know what I mean? You’re kind of like breathe, but to say, okay, let’s hold on. Let, let me get, sometimes I’ll say to the girls, like, they’ll be telling me something.

Cathy: I’m like, hold on. I’m going to go get my like sweatpants on and get comfy so I can really [00:57:00] listen. Like, take a moment. Well,

Todd: for me, because I’m sure I’ve said and thought many times to my kids, calm down, take a breath. And what I’m pretty good at doing now is before I ever utter those words, I need to calm down and take a breath.

Todd: Right. It’s just easier for me to see their dysregulation than it is to see my own. So, but I’m getting better at like, and I, I invite, you know, some of the guys that I work with, like before you ever tell anybody to breathe, you better be, you better be breathing. Yeah. Otherwise it’s disingenuous. Totally.

Todd: And it’s not landing well. So anyways. Well, it sounds like a criticism then. Of course. Yeah. When people are like, I can’t, I can’t handle your dysregulation. So I need you to regulate yourself. When at the same time, I’m not doing anything to regulate myself. The

Cathy: funniest thing. And it’s actually not funny because it’s hurtful, but it wouldn’t parents yell, calm down, calm down.

Cathy: And it’s like, Oh my God, dude, you are so not calm. So You know, just finishing up here, putting everything together. Flooding the zone [00:58:00] is a tactic that is used in our political narrative. It’s a real thing. It’s not something I’m making up. It’s something that has been spoken and something that has been clarified.

Cathy: And yes, this is what’s happening. Recognize that. And then, you know, kind of figure out. You know, discern what you can do and what you can’t do and what you’re going to be triggered by and not triggered by. And then take that understanding and recognize it in your own family. You know, like, when are you flooding the zone on purpose?

Cathy: Sometimes we do that to, you know, like, why is Clark Griswold flooding the zone with, you know, his son? Because he’s embarrassed that he

Todd: got

Cathy: caught

Todd: swimming naked with Chrissy Brinkley.

Cathy: Exactly. He’s not taking ownership. He’s not taking responsibility. He’s just talking.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: And and sometimes we Um, do that because we’re uncomfortable, but then we have to come back and say, here’s really what it was.

Todd: Take ownership. Um, all right. So we didn’t even talk about your book. That’s too bad.

Cathy: Well, two things that I’d like to say. Number [00:59:00] one, um, now that we’re in February, February 22nd, uh, Dr. John Duffy and I are doing a, um, a thing at Barbara’s bookstore here in Yorktown mall, um, which is outside of Chicago. And we are doing a Q and A.

Cathy: It’s at 2 p. m. at Barber’s Bookstore at Yorktown. And you and I are flying to Santa Monica February 26th. We are doing a Q and A. You’re actually facilitating a conversation with me about restoring our girls at Zibi’s Bookstore at 9 a. m. I think to like 10 30 or 11. So those are two book things coming up.

Cathy: If you’re in California. And you’re close to Santa Monica or if you’re in Chicago.

Todd: And both those events can be found somewhere in the show notes. They

Cathy: can be in the show notes and if you go to our Instagram page, you can go to the bio. Everything’s there. You can go to our website. There’s a lot of places.

Cathy: Yeah. Keep shrugging everybody.

Round two. Change a little bit. And [01:00:00] change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.