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Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd and this is Cathy. Welcome back to the 800th. Episode of Zen Parenting Radio. My goodness. It’s been quite a week for Zen Parenting. It has. The big 8 0 0. Who would have thunk it 15 years ago? We’d be still talking, sweetie.
Cathy: Yeah. Where’s the clapping?
Todd: Um, oh, I got lots of clapping.
Todd: There
Cathy: we go. There we go. 800. I remember when we got to 300 and people. We’re sending us gifts.
Todd: That’s right. Where’s our 800 gifts?
Cathy: Well, no, I don’t want gifts, but what I’m saying is that was a big deal at 300. I remember we got like a plaque. Someone sent us something for me and then someone sent me this rock and there was just all sorts of, but this was, these were in the days when there was very few podcasts.
Cathy: That’s right. So we were, now there’s just so many [00:01:00] that. You know, and there’s plenty of people who’ve gotten to 800. You want to know why? Why? Because they do like three podcasts a week.
Todd: And they also sometimes start on 101. A few of my friends who have podcasts, they just to make them look more experienced to the others.
Cathy: Really?
Todd: Of course. A lot, a lot of podcasters do that.
Cathy: But it’s not true.
Todd: I know.
Cathy: That’s not fair.
Todd: No. It’s not. But it’s not illegal. That’s what I
Cathy: call skipping ahead. Yeah. No, it’s not illegal. But it seems, well, well, who knows? The industry’s changing. But anyway, happy 100, Todd.
Todd: Uh, happy 800. Or
Cathy: 800.
Todd: To you, sweetie.
Cathy: Sorry. I got stuck on that. People start on 100. Can’t be 800. Um,
Todd: so we are still kind of catching our breath from our final Zen Parenting Conference, also known as ZenCon25. And Cathy and I decided it would be. fun to, um, give you our top 10 best moments,
Cathy: best, best moments and, um, things that I think [00:02:00] you will enjoy hearing, even though if you couldn’t make it or if you were there, definitely.
Todd: Yeah, for sure. Um, and I wanted to first start with what I was upset at myself for not doing, because Jess is the person who helps us put the conference together, just
Cathy: from Synergy Creative
Todd: and between you and Jess, you guys had these, um, Table settings. Uh huh. Is that what they’re called? Yes. And they’re colorful and they’re great.
Todd: I love the look of them and it was different words that our kids use that are jargony.
Cathy: Yes, they are basically kids slang and the girls, my daughters helped me come up with them. Skylar actually gave me the majority of them because one thing we learned as we were talking about this over break is that JC Cameron and Skylar don’t have the same slang.
Right.
Cathy: That There’s some that’s overlapping, but J. C., there were some words that Skylar was using that J. C. ‘s like, I don’t know what that is. So even just with, um, how many years are between J. C. and Skylar?
Todd: J.
Cathy: C. ‘s a
Todd: senior and Skylar is a junior. So I guess five years, five or [00:03:00] six.
Cathy: So there’s been shifts in jargon between those times.
Cathy: So Basically, Skyler helped us put these table things together with all these words.
Todd: All right, so we’re just going to go through and we don’t have them listed in our Word document. We actually have the table setting itself.
Cathy: So if you’re looking on YouTube, it’s kind of funny because it’s very large because they were on tables.
Todd: Yes, and we’re going to go right through these. Should I
Cathy: hold it up? Yeah,
Todd: hold it up. I’m going to do one and then you do one.
Cathy: Okay, go ahead.
Todd: Cap or no cap. That’s C A P. Do you know what cap is, sweetie? Yeah, well it’s truth or not truth. Cap is a lie, or no cap means not a lie. Your turn.
Cathy: And, and actually that one does, is in all generations.
Cathy: Anyway. Okay. Bussin.
Todd: Bussin means that you’re taking the bus somewhere.
Cathy: No, it means something’s extremely good. Like, ooh, that meal was bussin.
Todd: Okay, a slay. I know what that means. It means you crushed something. Like, you just really did well.
Cathy: Yeah, you totally slayed. Uh, glaze.
Todd: Glaze, that’s what you two put on donuts.
Cathy: No, it’s to annoyingly hype someone up. [00:04:00] So all that person was, they were totally glazing that person, like trying to make them feel good about who they were. And
Todd: if you’re listening, just ask yourself, do you know these? If you have a kid who is in whatever, middle school or high school or college, the next one is you’re selling, which means you’re not doing very well, sweetie.
Todd: It means you’re losing. Yeah. Sweetie, you’re not selling at all. I’m not selling. You’re, you’re buying.
Cathy: Um, the next one is eight and this means did something exceptionally well. So like, oh my gosh, I totally ate this week. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Will you take a picture of me like this? Sure,
Todd: babe. You look great.
Cathy: Well, it’s not about how I look. It’s that this is a funny thing to post because this is from the comp.
Todd: It is. All right. I gotcha. Okay. I gotcha a few times. Uh, you know what I’m doing? What? I’m locked in.
Cathy: Locked in. You know what that is.
Todd: That means there’s no distractions. I am locked
Cathy: in. I’m focused. So Skylar says that to us anytime we get distracted in a conversation.
Cathy: She’ll be like, Lock in!
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: That makes me laugh. Aura. Someone’s vibe and energy.
Todd: That’s from, uh, Almost Famous. Yes. [00:05:00] Your aura is purple.
Cathy: Well, aura has been around forever. It’s not that aura is necessarily new, but I think people are using it in more of not such a spiritual way. They’re using it just like you’re kind of really cool.
Cathy: And aura farming is when you’re trying to be really cool. You’re like trying to, like, you’re looking for someone to say you have a good aura.
Todd: Bet. That’s, that’s my next one. Oh, bet. And it means yes. So I was just saying yes to you. Yeah. So if you want to talk to your teenager and they say, uh, do you want to have dinner?
Todd: If your teenager says you want to have dinner, you say bet instead of yes.
Cathy: Yeah. It’s like, okay.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Uh, the next one is cooked, which
Todd: means you’re
Cathy: screwed.
Todd: Really? Yeah. You’re cooked. Oh, you’re in trouble.
Cathy: Uh huh.
Todd: Mogging. Mogging means someone looks better than you in a picture.
Cathy: Yeah, it’s like someone’s mogging you on Instagram.
Todd: But is it something that they’re
Cathy: intentionally doing? I said that wrong. Mogging is when you do something with your jaw to like change.
Todd: That’s not true, sweetie. I’m looking at the [00:06:00] definition right now. What does it say? It says someone looks better than you in a picture.
Cathy: Oh, then I had it good the first time.
Todd: Yeah. So if you and I are in a picture and you look better than me, you’re mogging me.
Cathy: So I’m mogging you. Don’t
Todd: mog, sweetie. Okay. Which next?
Cathy: Um, the next one is Sigma, which we hear all the time. And this is a kind of a crossover word with, uh, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and it just means you’re the leader. You’re the best.
Todd: You know what I think about Sigma? What? It’s mid.
Cathy: It’s mid.
Todd: And that means it’s not that good
Cathy: and
Todd: it’s not that bad. It’s mid.
Cathy: It’s mid. It’s like middle.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Uh, the next word is gang, which means just friends. So like the way that they use it is they’ll be like, oh yeah, we’re gang, which means we’re friends.
Cathy: Sweetie,
Todd: me and you are gang.
Cathy: Yeah. You and I are gang.
Todd: And us, everybody at the Zen Parenting Conference, we were all gang. We’re all gang. Uh, you know what we didn’t do? We didn’t take the L. And that means to? Take the law. Take the law. Yeah. I feel like that’s kind of one that’s been around a while.
Cathy: All of these have like, it’s not that they’re not.
Cathy: They’re brand new. It’s how they’re using some
Todd: of my brand new mogging. Are you kidding me? [00:07:00] Yeah, I
Cathy: guess so.
Todd: All right. What’s you? Um,
Cathy: this is one of my favorites. Skylar uses that all the time. I know it means old people like uncle, like they’re a bunch of unks. We’re
Todd: unks. We are unks. Is JC an unk? Uh, from Skylar’s perspective?
Cathy: Maybe.
Todd: Okay. And then that’s facts. And that just means truth. That’s truth.
Cathy: So if someone’s like, Oh yeah, facts, it’s just truth. And then Finna, yeah. Is Gunna.
Todd: I thought Finna was, uh, Billy Eilish’s brother.
Cathy: No, that’s Finneas. Oh. And this is Finna. And then one, and so that’s it from, that’s what was on our tables, but one that I didn’t put on there that I loved is when I, I text something, sorry, you gotta put that on the ground now, when I text something to the girls and all they write back is type, type.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And I’m like, what does this mean, type type? And it just means like, yep, got it, yep, good point, yep, whatever. Yeah, I think that’s
Todd: a dumb
Cathy: one. And then they’re like, sometimes people write type shit. And, oh, I’m sorry. Miss Petey,
Todd: this is a PG 13 [00:08:00] podcast. But
Cathy: I’m like, what’s the difference? And they’re like, well, just the vibe.
Cathy: I don’t get it. But if your kids write type type, they’re just kind of like concurring.
Todd: Yeah. Type, type,
Cathy: type, type. Okay. So that’s, that was our, that’s number 10.
Todd: That’s number 10
Cathy: is the words and the language and everything we had on the tables. We had a lot of writing opportunities. Um, and just to kind of keep going with that, since we’re talking about the table, we had cards on the table for every speaker.
Cathy: So it was like a quote, and then on the back it said, like, what’s something that it, it, it wasn’t as boring as what’s something you learned. It’s like, what does leadership mean to you? What’s a, uh, who’s a man or a boy that you would like to be grateful for? What’s something that parental leadership. You know, it’s taught you all these different things.
Cathy: And then we had a big wall called the Good Intentions Wall because we had Glenn Phillips there. Good Intentions. We did. The Wets Bracket song. And our theme was good. So it was perfect. And, um, people would put them on the wall. So we, so the tables were really fun and interactive. Lots of markers, lots of writing.
Todd: Um, [00:09:00] are we going to go to number nine? Yeah. Number nine. Good work everywhere. Sponsors and attendees.
Cathy: So. One of the things that always comes up at the Zen Parenting Conference, especially, um, right now because of everything that’s changing as far as our, you know, government and, and leadership, is that I, you know, I get into these rooms with all these people and I’m like, man, there’s a lot of good things happening.
Cathy: There’s all the, all of our sponsors are doing these amazing things in the world to make the world a better place, to help kids, to support parents. And then you’ve got all these parents who come to this conference who, you know, have these little like side things that they’re doing like they’re writing books, they’re writing sub stacks, they’re running these community, you know, these cool community interventions or work or their social workers or their nurses or therapists.
Cathy: And so whenever I leave a Zen parenting conference, I’m always like, We’re in good hands. Yeah. There’s a lot of good people out there.
Todd: And it’s so easy to forget. It is. Um, I do want to just give a shout out to our six sponsors, Wicked Awesome Dads, Counseling, FFC, Science [00:10:00] Olympiad, Ameriprice Financial, ICU Mama, and Spiritual Playdate.
Todd: And I do want to give, I’m going to give each of them plugs in the upcoming weeks, but I just want to say that Spiritual Playdate. Edwina, who’s our friend over there, uh, they’re a fun, interactive, peace, education resource for grown ups to use, uh, to help kids of all ages. It’s just a click away. They believe that it’s easier to raise strong children than repair broken adults.
Todd: So check out their social emotional We say
Cathy: that tagline one more time because you kind of got broken up.
Todd: It’s easier to raise strong children Comma. Repair broken adults. I think I forgot to repair in the tagline. Yeah Social emotional and spiritual life skill program spiritual playdate. com. Thank you so much for spiritual playdate So
Cathy: claps,
Todd: I will give Edwina and her team over
Cathy: Nice.
Todd: Bunch of claps. Um, and anything else you want to say about the attendees?
Cathy: No, just that, that’s just one of the best things is just about walking out and being like there’s so many good people in the world and we, I [00:11:00] always know that, but then when you’re face to face with them all at one time, you’re like, wow, we’re just so in this together.
Todd: So I just felt like, uh, overwhelmed with, the support and love from everybody in that room. It was so great.
Cathy: And that’s what I mean. It’s like, there’s the people who have these like big organizations like Science Olympiad or, you know, where they’re doing these big things that are more like international or whatever.
Cathy: And then there’s these people who are doing these things in their own communities or people who just come to help us at the conference. Like we were talking about my friend Tammy, who has run our bookstore every year that we’ve done the conference. So Tammy just shows up, just comes in, organizes the bookstore, runs the whole thing.
Cathy: Is like, okay, I’m out of here. Like you can’t ask for, and then our photographers, you know, Jenny Grimm and Amy Connell, they just come in, they know what to do. They take pictures. Like there’s just this, um, not continuity. What’s the word I’m looking for. There’s just this comfort and everybody who’s coming and going, they’re so good at what they do.
Cathy: Um, so anyway. And just a
Todd: [00:12:00] ton of volunteers that help us make this work. We started out the weekend with our Team Zen get together. This is number eight. Number eight. And what I love most about this, uh, these, most of these Team Zen people have been coming for years and years and years, and they have become really good friends and they use the conference as a vehicle to get together.
Todd: So You and I were the initiators. I mean, they did all the work. They just kind of came together through Team Zen and Zen Parenting Radio. And it’s just, I don’t know if there is a better way for me to feel good about myself is that we have been a, we have been a participant of helping people connect in a really lovely way.
Todd: And I’m so grateful. And there’s a handful of them that are even thinking about how they’re going to get together next year, sans the Zen Parenting Conference. I
Cathy: know we promised them we’d try and figure something out where we could do something, maybe smaller, less. overwhelming, but still do something where everybody could come together.
Cathy: I think
Todd: we should do like a retreat center thing and, [00:13:00] and people can just sign up and then you and I, you and I lead, uh, a weekend workshop in one of those really awesome places. Does
Cathy: 1440 still exist?
Todd: I think so. And we should just call them and say, Hey, we did this before. Yeah. Let’s do it again.
Cathy: Yeah.
Cathy: Yeah. We should, we should really think about that. And just that they’re just. funny and fun because, you know, we have all these serious things that we do on teams and, you know, we have these serious calls and micro communities and we’re supporting each other. And there’s sometimes a lot of tears and all that kind of thing.
Cathy: And then at the conference, we, you know, got together for the reception, everybody’s sharing, you know, new things in their life and, you know, in their lives. And, and then it was really funny because I went up to the room kind of not early, but like 10 o’clock on Friday, because there was kind of a party going on, which there always is.
Cathy: And I have to bail or else. I don’t get enough sleep, but then I really needed food. So I’m like, I kept texting my family saying, bring me food. And nobody was answering because everyone was at the party. And I’m like, okay, I got to go downstairs. I like had slippers on whatever. And then I come walking down the hall and then there’s this huge group of teams and people walking down the hall.
Cathy: having their [00:14:00] drinks, laughing, there were inside jokes, you know, and of course I had to stop and chat for a little bit, of course, which I love doing, but it’s just a, you know, every aspect of our lives, right? The happy, the sad, the hard, the fun, um, you know, we’re very multifaceted people.
Todd: Uh, there was something missing from, uh, Team Zen though.
Todd: Millie, our sweet friend Millie, who is battling some health issues. Uh huh. And I wanted to Do something from stage and I get distracted and I know Millie listens to she’s been at every single conference I’m except the first one but she donated to the Kickstarter. I know and she’s she it had been so easy for her to say Yes, I’ve been to every single one but because she’s an honest person like now I missed the first one But I donated to your Kickstarter It wasn’t the same without you, Millie, uh, and we’re just sending you love as you get stronger and healthier.
Todd: And I just, I just love Millie. So I wanted to say that. Are you ready for the next one?
Cathy: Okay. So number seven is,
Todd: um, restoring our girls, rescuing [00:15:00] our boys. This was the talk that you and John Duffy had.
Cathy: So we kind of in the morning, like I always show these movies and videos first, but then Duffy and I, you know, went on and we had.
Cathy: A really good long time, like one thing that Todd and I have learned from previous years of the conference is that having a speaker up there for an hour is not enough that people need to ask questions. There needs to be some more space, you know, and so we just made the whole morning or the majority of the morning Duffy and I, and we had, he, uh, it’s Dr.
Cathy: John Duffy. I’m sure everybody knows that, but I. Um, I put together seven or eight slides that he and I were talking through, like, what are the things that people ask you about your book? His is rescuing our sons. And what are the things people ask me about my book, which is restoring our girls. And so I put up the first slide and we didn’t get through any other slides.
Cathy: An hour and
Todd: 45 minutes later, we were still on the very first slide.
Cathy: And then everyone was, not [00:16:00] everyone, but I think you were worried about it. And I’m like, definitely. And I don’t care. I just didn’t know what you had behind that. Like if there’s certain topics you want to make sure you hit, but. We did.
Cathy: But it’s also like, it’s obviously like we weren’t just talking about that one question. It like, you know, went in lots of different directions. And so I didn’t feel like we had to bring it back to the PowerPoint. Like people were already taking liberties with their questions and, um, but that was really fun.
Cathy: And I think we. we’re able to, because the first question was, is life more difficult for girls or boys right now? And that is a really interesting, sometimes contentious, sometimes enlightening question. Um, and John and I do not argue about these things, by the way, there is no, we’re on the same page, but we just have some, we come at it from with different.
Todd: Well, and this kind of bleeds into the next one. So we’ll talk about both of these things at the same time because that was, um, our Friday night presentation. Well, our Friday night presentation was about leadership. I know, but we [00:17:00] also talked about good, uh, destructive, messy, good, messy, bad, messy. And, um, the bad, messy version of what you’re talking about of like, who’s got it worse, girls or boys is because you had a bullet point in there of binary thinking.
Todd: Yes. Like, is it boys or is it girls? Right. And the answer is always, it’s both. Neither and both. And, you know, from a really kind of defensive place, sometimes like, no, no, boys have it worse or no, no, my daughters have it worse. And um, I just wanted, um, one thing that you said, not for the first time, but on stage is um, the idea of boys struggling, which they are.
Todd: Mm
hmm.
Todd: Um, but one thing you said is you as a woman have had to continue to adapt to this world that is typically run by men ever since you were a little girl, ever since the movies that you started watching and Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, and what they talk about in the history books, and you’ve had to adapt.
Todd: [00:18:00] And I think the word adapt is a really kind of healthy way of inviting the parents of young men. to invite them to say, yeah, it’s, it’s our turn to be adaptable. And I, as a white, straight man, haven’t needed to, of course I’ve had to adapt, but I think not nearly as much as you have.
Cathy: Well, and again, this question got brought up because this is in Duffy’s book, and I think Sean brought it up about how there was a family and a son said to his mom, Um, I don’t know what the conversation was initially about, something he needed or a struggle he was going through, and she’s like, this time is for the girls.
Cathy: This time is not for you, meaning this time and space is not for you, it’s for the girls. And obviously there’s a lot of men who, and boys who take offense to that, um, and I understand that maybe the way the mom addressed that sounded like a, we don’t care about you, we’re only focusing on [00:19:00] girls. And she could have said it in a much better way.
Cathy: But I think. What I kind of wanted to take from that is, yes, while the language wasn’t perfect, when girls or women are going through something new or when we’re struggling with something, it’s not just us alone. Men and boys are choosing how they want to adapt to that situation. It’s not that they’re not important or not a part of it, but isn’t it okay that sometimes there’s something girls and women are focusing on and men adapt to that?
Cathy: And then when men are dealing with something, women, women adapt to that and that we are adaptable. And that I, I, the way I view my experience and I wrote about this in my book is that to your point, women have had to adapt over and over and over and over again, not just in the way we see ourselves, but even in, you know, go back to Rosie the Riveter, you know, men go to war, women go to work, men come back home.
Cathy: Okay, well, we’re going to go back home. Oh, you know, we’re going to play baseball. No, you’re not anymore. Go back home. Um, now you’re going to go in the workforce in the [00:20:00] 80s, wear your suits, wear your, you know, cut your hair short, look like a man, act like a man, you know, lean in like we’re always being told to adapt to this norm.
Cathy: And when, when men and boy, when men are talking about boys who are in the basement smoking weed and they feel like they don’t have any purpose and they feel like You know, um, they don’t know where they belong. I totally hear that and we do need to focus on that. But there are no laws or legislation preventing them from adapting to a new way of living.
Cathy: There’s no Whereas there,
Todd: there, there was and is for you.
Cathy: We’re being threatened all the time with our, you know, that our reproductive rights are being taken away. Roe v. Wade is being knocked down, where no fault divorce is being questioned, you know, same sex marriage is being questioned. And again, that can affect men as well.
Cathy: But it’s, there’s, you know, there’s all these things where we’re, women are threatened with being You’re not [00:21:00] equal and we’re not going to give you these opportunities and you can’t be CEOs and how are you going to stay home and you can’t do IVF anymore. And while I know men are affected by that, I’m not saying we’re all isolated.
Cathy: Men aren’t being legislated against. So their ability to adapt is less taxing. What’s another word? It’s more promising. There’s more. There’s more opportunity. And so, yes, for boys who don’t feel like they have a place, I hear that and I get that, but at least that can just come from within. And they don’t have to worry about even, and again, this is hard because I feel like if someone was listening, they’d be like, there’s so much more to that.
Cathy: And I agree, it’s not, it’s very nuanced. You know, it depends on their family situation, their own trauma, their education, do they have any special needs that aren’t being attended to, their mental health. But for the most part. They can adapt to a new culture. It’s, do they want to? And I think one of the,
Todd: um, And how do we show up for our young [00:22:00] men and our young women and help them get through it?
Cathy: Correct. And, and one of the pieces, like we showed a video of, you know, some clips from Andrew Tate and from Joe Rogan and from, um, Jordan, Jordan Peterson and the things they say. And there’s a lot of the belief is don’t adapt. You don’t need to adapt men. Just keep your masculinity. Don’t let them tell you any differently.
Cathy: And you know, go in even more, you know, um, alpha male, like just fight against any kind of, you know, adaptability. The thing is, there’s so much nuance in there. Like, of course you can keep your masculinity and stay masculine and be a man, and you can also like adapt to a culture that needs more compassion and understanding.
Todd: Well, and I guess, well, I’ll give one example and this is from Richard Reeves, but the manufacturing jobs are not nearly as prevalent as they were 30 years ago, a hundred years ago or whatever. The need for HEAL jobs, which is health and [00:23:00] teaching and things like that, also known as pink jobs. Like we are dying for more people to step into those industries.
Todd: So that’s a, that’s adapting personified. There are, you know, if you can’t find a job, you have to adapt and maybe we need to go to send these young men to school to learn how to be social workers. Right. To learn how to be nurses, to learn how to be a teachers, high school teachers, grade school teachers.
Todd: So, is that normal? No, but let’s make it normal.
Cathy: Yeah, let’s, let’s start to adapt to a new culture. And, you know, what we talked about on Friday night, Todd and I, is what does parenting leadership look like in this day and age, as far as like what we’re teaching at home. And, of course, it’s a lot of the basic things about role modeling and our energy, but it really is having these conversations.
Cathy: You don’t talk to your boys and say, you can’t listen to Joe Rogan. Because there’s plenty on Joe Rogan that’s fun and interesting and pop culture and sports. What you say is you focus on, do you hear [00:24:00] subtle misogyny occasionally? Do you hear those messages that are telling you that you need to be a certain kind of man and starting to question those things?
Cathy: Not, you don’t have to fight it. You don’t have to, you just, you’re trying to critical thinking is alerting your kids to these things, maybe listening to it with them and noticing the messages that serve them and then the ones that hurt them because there is, except for some. You know, some obvious examples, most people don’t fit like all good, all bad.
Cathy: There’s all this in between where your boys are interested in someone because of the sports or whatever it may be. And there’s just these hints of negativity and misogyny. And if they notice that. Um, then that’s so much better than it’s seeping in and becoming a part of their unconscious.
Todd: Well, that was one of the pieces I got out of yours and John’s talk is I sometimes do see the world in black and white and Jordan Peterson is bad and Joe Rogan is bad.
Todd: Andrew Tate, it’s hard for me to kind of [00:25:00] negotiate with that one, but there’s some things that Jordan Peterson, so what you and John talked about from the stage is instead of demonizing these voices. Connect with your kids saying, I get why you. Like hearing this because there’s a lot of good funny important topical stuff And so it’s like just continue the conversation going and did you hear this part where and listen to it with them?
Todd: Yeah, I’d have a conversation like oh, did you listen to the the blah blah blah interview instead of shutting it down? Which and there’s a part of my parenting philosophy that doesn’t come out, but it’s in there It’s like no just shut it down. It’s no good all bad and That is a disconnector for your kid.
Cathy: Well, and it’s the same. I showed a video of a bunch of tick tocks that our girls watch, you know, that are kind of the amalgam of, you know, the tick tocks they watch. Like, here’s some examples and we can also say, like, you know, because a lot of them are get ready with me or outfit of the day. And we can say, well, that’s That’s dumb.
Cathy: That’s [00:26:00] stupid. You shouldn’t watch that. Why do you like that? We can shame our girls about enjoying these things or we can talk to them about it. About the parts that are real, the parts that are not real, the parts they enjoy, why they enjoy it. Why maybe an influencer, you know, influences them to buy something.
Cathy: You know, there was a great question, um, about how do I talk to my daughter? About makeup because she’s buying all this makeup and she’s beautiful and she doesn’t need it and I want to tell her stop it And he
Todd: called it. This is my friend bill. I won’t say his last name, but he he did what I did
Cathy: He called it junk.
Cathy: Yeah,
Todd: he called it junk or garbage Talking about this Sephora like all this stuff and through a middle aged man’s man’s, um, point of view, I can see why, I mean, I, I’ve called it garbage and it’s not, but, and the minute you use that term, you’re sending a message to your kid that it’s just, it’s just not a healthy way.
Todd: It’s an
Cathy: example of a messy conversation because I do, you know, obviously I know Bill and I know you and I know you guys are being very earnest in [00:27:00] what you’re saying. Like you’re, you’re saying you don’t need this, but you also have a history. Maybe you don’t do it anymore. I don’t notice it of putting posters on the wall of women with a lot of makeup and a lot of sexy clothes.
Cathy: And you’re like, that woman’s beautiful and that woman’s not. And so you engage in it in our society, meaning you’re like, you decide women are beautiful based on how they’re made up. And so you can. If you understand that, then you understand why it’s confusing for girls. And I, I said, and you know, we don’t have to play it here unless you can find it really fast, but I, you know, three or four years ago, I’ve been talking about girls forever at the conference, you know, trying to support parents who have daughters and I played this great.
Cathy: Amy Schumer clip from her show, you know, Inside Amy Schumer. And it’s this like, you know, parody of a boy band who’s singing like it’s a parody of, you know, One Direction’s, you know, You Don’t Know You’re Beautiful or whatever, What Makes You Beautiful. And it’s, it’s like these guys basically saying wipe off all your makeup.[00:28:00]
Cathy: So play this part.
Cathy: Oh. It’s that’s too far into it. But
that’s what they think. Now watch that love it face up in the scene in the scene.
I’ll take you to a special place. It’s something that I’ve got to say. Wipe it up. Wipe it up. Wipe it off. Wipe it off. Ho, ho, ho, hold up, girl. We spoke too soon. With this whole no makeup tune. Trying to change my mind on the makeup thing. You’ll be the hottest girl in the nation. With just a touch of foundation.
Girl, I can’t be seen with the G from the van. Know that your lashes were so stubby. Just a little mascara. You know, [00:29:00] the female,
Cathy: so you get the gist is there’s a lot of like, go natural girl. And then as soon as you do, they’re like, oh, wait a second. You don’t look quite as pretty as. thinking in my mind, and that’s the thing that that’s the unfortunate part about Instagram and filters is that there are girls who are like taking off their makeup, but then they put on a filter and they still look perfect.
Cathy: Perfect skin. It’s not real. It’s fake, just like our magazines were. And so it just becomes this thing. So but talking to our girls about those things, rather than demonizing Instagram, makeup, clothes. Well.
Todd: And in order to kind of balance it out a little bit, I’ll just say this is a little bit more generic.
Todd: Like, I think the boy version of that is not version of that, but, you know, just all of the absence of anything vulnerable. Like as it’s the man box, you can’t be anything other than tough and stoic. And that is not how human beings are. And it’s demoralizing and debilitating and it’s, I just wanted to balance out a small example of what it’s [00:30:00] like for us parents of boys and what they’re going through.
Cathy: Of course, and the same thing with their body image and girls, you know, body image, like there’s so much that we share. That’s the whole nuance thing, or that’s the whole, that’s why the binary doesn’t work, because the question that John and I put up about, is life more difficult for girls or boys? That was the slide.
Cathy: It’s ironic. Like, we’re not, we don’t really have an answer to that, because it’s, it depends, and it’s, and it’s always changing. It’s an attention grabber, though. Exactly, and I just tend to get, as an advocate for women and girls, my big thing is, I just want to make sure we understand the history. Of girls and women and the oppression of girls and women and that we have had to adapt and overcome and you know in my mom’s generation.
Cathy: She couldn’t even have her own checking account. She could be a teacher nurse or a secretary and things are have obviously changed since then. But that wasn’t that long ago and they’re trying to pull us back. And so we just have to recognize it’s not about. So [00:31:00] then let’s not focus on boys. It’s just there is a distinction between who is being legislated.
Cathy: And who are, we’re not quite as free as you guys are. Let’s just say that.
Todd: Agreed. And what was the thing on stage you talked about of how sometimes people criticize our podcast or you or me because you come on too strong and I get, I get, um, what, what, I forget what was. People
Cathy: feel bad for you that they think I’m overpowering you.
Cathy: So I’ve gotten emails before of people who are like, you know. You know, Todd’s, you know, he didn’t really say much there. He’s really hard on himself or you kind of talked for a really long time or, um, you know, do you think you could get Todd’s opinion on this? And, and they’ve, you know, I’ve been doing this 14 years.
Cathy: It’s not like I’m getting these emails all the time, but I’ve gotten them enough. And I know it. Cause I, what I said on stages, you and I’ll do a podcast. And when it’s over, I get a feeling in my stomach where I’m like, people are gonna be pissed about this podcast. Cause I talked a lot. And the thing is.
Cathy: Is I’m, you know, Todd, you don’t [00:32:00] have to back me up on this or anything, but this world and Todd’s totally in it. And he’s got an international men’s group and he’s a coach, but this is my world. I’ve been a therapist for 20 something years. I don’t feel like I have to acquiesce to Todd and be like, are you okay with this?
Cathy: If
Todd: you did it, you know what it would be a lot. I’m going to go ahead and see if I can find it. And it’s not that I’m not making fun of like I have nothing to say, but there’s times there’s even a part, uh, uh, this weekend that I’ll talk about in a second. Um, I. It’s not that you’re overpowering me. There’s more you have more of this inside of you than I do and that doesn’t mean you’re better than me It’s just there’s certain things.
Todd: I’m really good at and I I think I balance you out with you know Maybe sometimes a more practical approach or you’re producing the show Reminding you exactly that not everybody knows the word you’re talking about and there’s times when I have takes that you don’t know much about also, right but Um, [00:33:00] I appreciate somebody trying to come to my defense by emailing you saying, give Todd a chance.
Todd: I have all the chances guys. Don’t worry.
Cathy: I know. And that’s the thing is like, I, as I said, I sometimes just put on my misogyny, um, earphones, which I know. I know those earphones really well, which means I listened to something through the lens of, of patriarchy. And I know that at certain points, if I’m like, Hey, Todd, wait a second on that, that people are like, Whoa, she’s, you know, I know I, because I’ve lived in this world.
Cathy: So I know what people get frustrated about. And I also know that Todd and I have a rhythm, and this is how we talk to each other all the time. And we have a very healthy relationship. So I know I don’t need to explain all that. It’s just, it came up on stage because I’ve also had more threats, you know, telling me I’m wrong or why I need to shut up.
Todd: People don’t tell me that, how I’m wrong on this podcast.
Cathy: Exactly. And it’s, and that’s, and these are the parts where if another, if male podcasters were like, well, that doesn’t happen. And it’s like, but it does too. And I’m sure male, some male [00:34:00] podcasters have gotten negative feedback. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t even genderize it.
Cathy: All I’m saying is that. It’s much more happens to me. You’re under the microscope. That’s it. Thank you. That’s excellent. I’m under the microscope
Todd: One thing Cathy invited me to do because we’re getting ready for our Friday night presentation was to because I like to be organized and be prepared and Cathy just has a as an ability to kind of roll with it more than I do and she invited me to Uh, she invited me to forget my notes and just be with her on stage as if we were doing a podcast.
Todd: And that’s scary for me because there’s a certain level of safety when we’re in this room recording a podcast. When we’re in front of a couple hundred people, um, there’s a different energy for me. So I don’t want to remain, I don’t want to have nothing to say. Uh, so anyways, I, I. I did take your invitation and I [00:35:00] had my notes, but then I crumpled them up and threw them in the audience.
Cathy: Yeah. And you know,
Todd: and that did help. I think it went better because of that.
Cathy: Yeah. And the thing is, is it’s really, cause to your point, you’re like, we come down here, we’ve been coming down here every Tuesday for 14 years. you know, I know sometimes if we’re doing pop culture stuff, you write things down or if you have a book, I’m not saying we never write anything down, but for the most part, you and I are just talking.
Cathy: So you’re like, but in front of an audience. And I’m like, what’s the difference? I understand nerves, but you already know all this stuff. There’s nothing you need a note for.
Todd: And I think I’ve shared with you that I get criticized, um, quite often sometimes, uh, of how I show up in my men’s groups. because they want this version of me at the men’s group.
Todd: And they see me as much more lighthearted having more levity on Zen parenting and much more serious over at men living. And my answer is always like, it’s a different space. I’m with my sweetie. I’m just talking to her versus 10 guys who are struggling with their challenges and how do I [00:36:00] support them through it?
Todd: Or it’s two completely different things. But I also think there’s some wisdom in that feedback. I think I do need to show up to these men living spaces with a little more levity because, you know, if I’m so serious, it’s just sometimes not that fun to be around.
Cathy: Yeah. And I guess I would love to know when they say that to you.
Cathy: Like, is it when you’re in charge or when you’re just focused on time? Like what’s the, what’s, when do you get that criticism? Is it after you do a speaking engagement? No, no.
Todd: It’s, it’s when I’m in a A virtual full house and they’re like, Tab, I just lighten up, like be, be how you are with Cathy. And I’m like, I’m not with Cathy.
Cathy: Yeah. So, so what do you think about, I know you’re, I’m just going deeper. Like what do you think? I think there’s
Todd: wisdom in me bringing my more lighthearted self to men living spaces. I just treat it with a little more seriousness. It’s funny. I haven’t even talked to the other leaders about it, but we have five men living suggestions and, um, My, I’m going to [00:37:00] suggest a sixth one and it’s going to be men living, um, less seriously or something like that, like
Cathy: with levity,
Todd: yeah, men living with levity.
Todd: I forget the word I wanted to use, but something to quit being so darn serious lightness. Yeah, because it’s right now, our five suggestions are conscious, curious, emotional, candid, and intentional. All really important personal growth words, right? But maybe it’s men living joyfully. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Todd: Yeah. I think that was the word that I want to present to them. So if it’s going to be up to me, I might add a sixth suggestion to the men living suggestions.
Cathy: Well, and you know, I think the difference is what you bring to a workspace. Um, again, you and I do Zen parenting together. It’s not that it’s, it’s all me, but there’s a.
Cathy: There’s a type of structure that I kind of insist on which is Yeah, the structure
Todd: is, I got nothing, sweetie. You got something for this Tuesday?
Cathy: Or that, but it’s less about what we say on the podcast and more about when we do this, let’s have fun. If we’re going to, I’m going to only take this gig if we’re excited about it.
Cathy: [00:38:00] Like, I insist on not Businessing it up like it’s got to come from the gut. It’s all about feeling. And so you and I can be like, cause we don’t do things we don’t want to do. And I think with men living, don’t get me wrong. I know you love all the aspects, but there’s probably parts that are harder that you don’t have a choice because you’re the founder right here.
Cathy: Heavier. Yeah.
Todd: More responsibility.
Cathy: Yeah. So that’s number five. Todd crumpling up his notes on stage and throwing them into the audience and staying right there with me. I kept saying, stay with me because we, we have a better conversation when we think of stories because he was worried he wouldn’t have stories and, and I’m like, but the stories you think you’re supposed to share may not really work and you’ll try and Jerry rig them in there.
Todd: I’ll, I’ll reverse engineer them into it. Correct.
Cathy: That’s a bad. Uh, number seven, speakers and staff. I think it’s not number seven. I think you’re going the wrong way. Oh. I think that, I think we’re on
Todd: four now. Okay, four more to go. Whatever. It doesn’t matter. Who cares?
Cathy: Well, but so we can be organized.
Todd: Yeah, number four.
Todd: Go ahead.
Cathy: See, now I’m being [00:39:00] the organized person. Okay. Number four. So this is really just about our speakers and our staff. And I kind of already referred to our staff a little bit at the talking about just the good people everywhere. But we had, you know, so Todd and I, Friday night talking about, you know.
Cathy: Just this grassroots leadership that we need in our homes. And then, uh, Saturday morning, it was Duffy and I talking about our books, like we just said. And then we had, um, Jay Alvarez and Brittany Egan came in and talked about being LGBTQ plus allies.
Todd: Can I pause there real quick? Yeah. Um, Jay had a slide on there that said nature is gay, and I thought that was awesome, and I don’t think I kind of knew that, and he talked about these different mammals and different animals that have same sex partnerships, uh, intimate partnerships, not just, lifelong partnerships, and
Cathy: he also said one of the most interesting thing is, I think he was talking about swans, and I could be, I may need to be corrected, but the same [00:40:00] sex partners that do come together tend to adopt.
Cathy: Eggs that have been forgotten. Right. Isn’t that crazy? I mean, and raised them as their own. Like, so he just, it was a really kind of, um, they told their stories. Um, and it was just really great.
Todd: So just to recap that. So in other words, two female geese or two male geese who are lifelong partners are more likely to go find some egg that is abandoned versus the male female.
Cathy: Which kind of makes sense, because if they know biologically they can’t reproduce, just the two of them, then they would adopt eggs that have been abandoned.
Todd: I just thought that was a wonderful part of, uh, Jay and Britt’s, uh, talk, so.
Cathy: Yeah, and so, and Jay was with us last year too, so it was just nice to have Brittany there and just to be with them both.
Cathy: And then we had, um, Uh, LaPree Crawford, who is an LSW and she’s one of my former students and she’s awesome and she’s just starting her career in public speaking and she talked about mentorship, which she’s had a lot of experience with as a social worker, but also in her life, [00:41:00] she had a lot of mentors.
Cathy: So she spoke and then we had your panel, um, and it was a men living panel and it was Todd and Sean. Who is, um, who has been, who was the previous CEO of men living and is now, what is he in men living now?
Todd: A whole bunch of things.
Cathy: Fundraising. He’s just an intricate part of the whole thing. And then also, um, Tony Schmidt.
Cathy: So do you want to talk about that? Tony Molina. Tony. I always do that.
Todd: Do
Cathy: you have a Tony Schmidt in Men Living?
Todd: We do.
Cathy: Okay. Tony Molina. Can you talk about Tony and his work and what he, um, Tony is a police officer,
Todd: uh, in Chula Vista and, um, he is a part of our organization and he, Talked about how he brings his personal growth work to his own occupation.
Todd: And I thought it was great when he talked about how he’ll be at lunch with his fellow officers and excuse himself. And because I think there’s somebody asked the question is like, do you hide this part of your life from your law enforcement?
Cathy: This part of your life [00:42:00] being
Todd: men living? Oh, man, living growth from your.
Todd: Your day to your your day job. And he’s like, no, I’ll tell my officers I’m gonna go check out and uh, go meditate. Go meditate for 20 minutes. And I’m just like, oh, I love Tony
Cathy: and don’t, you know. And you said it was funny ’cause I was raising my hand that I wanted to say something and Right. Then you said, wouldn’t it be great if Tony was like in charge of all of our police departments?
Cathy: And you know, because his whole focus is their own personal self-care. Mm-hmm. You know, like making sure they’re taking care of themselves and that they have a good community and conversation and. Discuss their vulnerabilities and their challenges. He told one story, which is every police officer’s story, probably, but you know, these guys, a bunch of his officers got in this big accident where they almost died and they had to like run back to the police station and get new cars to continue doing what they were doing.
Cathy: Like they don’t even have time to think about the fact that they just died. feel it. And, you know, he just was real. Um, he was just talking about what men [00:43:00] living has helped him with it personally. Like he, his, um, his wife was there and we talked about his son. So it was just a really good conversation. I think about people seem,
Todd: people seem really engaged in us sharing our story about who we are, what we do and why we do it.
Cathy: And then we ended with our, you know, ending keynote was Dr. Alexandra Salomon, and those of you who listen to the show probably already know her. She is one of the best relationship experts in the country, um, and she talked about healthy conflict and people just loved her because she, she helps you really get to know your conflict style.
Cathy: And I. If you have a certain conflict style, what that results in and also recognizing what was it called the vulnerability circles? What were those things that she was talking about?
Todd: I don’t remember. I mean the amount of mapping
Cathy: vulnerability mapping
Todd: the amount of I felt like I was drinking water out of a fire hose because so much it was very dense Yeah, and I feel like every slide she had she could have talked Up for an hour on each one.
Todd: So
Cathy: dense meaning good,
Todd: dense? Yeah, dense. Intense. Trying. ’cause [00:44:00] I’m trying to like filter it through my own experience. Mm-hmm . And she was just throwing a bunch of stuff at us. Um, um, the name of her podcast is, um, what’s the name of Ali’s podcast? I got it here.
Cathy: Isn’t Love Every Day. Uh
Todd: oh. She’s got, I, I get confused between the books and the um.
Todd: And the podcast, but all the stuff that she talked about can be found on her podcast. Um, where’s Al? Well, I’ll say this is reimagining love. That’s
Cathy: it. I thought it was reimagining love. And then she has loving bravely as her book and taking sexy back as her book. And then her new book is love every day.
Cathy: That’s what I was thinking of. But yeah, all my friends who were there, everybody I talked to afterwards, they loved her. And because it’s just so good, you just see each other so well. So So Yeah. I just wanted to comment on everybody and, and then, you know, we already talked about Jess and Tammy and, you know, my family and all these people who are helping and all the men living guys who helped.
Cathy: It’s just a great, not only did I learn a lot from the people on stage, but also the people who helped put this together. [00:45:00] So thanks to everybody. Um, number three is movies and music. I just wanted to talk about the fact that my favorite thing, the thing that I’ll miss most about doing the Zen parenting conference, and maybe I’ll figure out how to do this in a different way.
Cathy: But. Is all the movies we show because basically we show clips from movies and TV shows through the whole conference to get people in the mental and emotional space of what we’re about to talk about. So, you know, when, when, uh, Duffy and I were gonna talk about girls and boys, I showed a bunch of different clips from.
Cathy: TikTok or movies or, you know, TV shows or videos just to kind of get people in that feel. And, um, and, you know, we showed an awesome Tim McGraw video and we show, you know, we just, it’s, that’s the weekend to me. Is that vibe? Um, and it takes a long time to put all those together and Find those and and it’s so funny because we got home and Skyler was like, you know, here’s some video clips I wish you would have used and then she started rattling them off.
Cathy: I’m like, why didn’t you tell me about these [00:46:00] like, you know, things from Modern Family and something from, um, I can’t remember, but all these other movies that she loves and I love to show those because I think it’s so it’s almost like. When we’re talking about things that are emotional or vulnerable, it can be kind of like a hard sell, like we’re kind of working really hard to get people in that emotional space.
Cathy: But if you show a video or a clip of something from a movie that demonstrates what we’re talking about, you’re already there. Yeah. You’re like, I know exactly where we’re going. Yeah.
Todd: So It was wonderful. And you, those videos are a labor of love for you. They are. I did one, Cathy did like seven of them, I did one of them, and uh But I was really happy with the one I did.
Todd: Some guy, um, walked up to me, he’s like, dude, I need that video. Cause it was all about men embracing different versions of themselves and all that, but it’s wonderful.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Um, number two,
Cathy: number two. So a number two, our big guest for Friday night was Glenn Phillips from toe the wet sprocket. And, um, he was awesome.
Cathy: And I, I’m not going to do [00:47:00] this story very well because not everyone’s going to understand. I don’t want to. You know, go off in weird directions, but we had on a podcast a couple weeks ago talked about an argument that my friend Chris Lozier and I had about Natalie Merchant and how when she plays there was a concert where she didn’t play her hits and I My friend Chris and I got to an argument that he was like, it’s fine that she didn’t play her hits and I’m like No, she should play her hits and so Uh, right when Glenn walked in, he said to me, Yeah, I’m thinking I’m going to play a bunch of 10, 000 Maniacs songs tonight.
Cathy: I was like, what? Wait. And then. I was like, wait, I was so confused. And he’s like, I listened to your podcast and I heard what you said. Then I got really scared. I was like, I know I wouldn’t have said anything bad. Cause I love him and I love his music. Well, the fact that I was embarrassed, the
Todd: fact that he took some time to listen to our podcast, like I thought that was very sweet.
Todd: Yeah. He’s, he’s a, a nice, a wonderful man and we might need to. We might end up seeing him at City Winery later this year. Yeah,
Cathy: so Glenn, if you’re [00:48:00] listening, you’re going to be here, I think, in April. Um, and, uh, the Duffys and the Addams are, we’re, we’re pretty much sure we’re going to try and get to your show.
Todd: We were some of the people in the front row.
Cathy: We were, because, let me just say, it was so It was like my own little rock concert, you know, it, you know, Glenn singing some of his original music and a few covers and then all of his hits from Toad the Wetsprocket and I couldn’t have been happier. I looked at Todd at one point, I’m like, this is like a weird dream, you know, like, cause we had this amazing stage.
Cathy: We, that’s kind of a long story, but we were able to create this amazing stage.
Todd: Um, I have no idea if the sound quality is good, but this was a song that I think he played when we saw him in Michigan and he played it again at our Zen Parenting Conference.
Cathy: So I think that was the tick nah, han thing. Yeah. And he [00:49:00] said he jazzed it up.
Todd: So is. So yeah, he took a, a line from Tick Not and made it into a sing along.
Cathy: And then he said, he said his friend, he and his friend kind of funked it up a little bit, like made it a little more funky. And so it’s kind of like a call and response and it was the last song he did.
Cathy: And it was wonderful. It was just so good. And he’s such a nice man. And we, you know, we talked about his daughters and his wife who. It actually does a lot of things that I do. She’s a social worker and a teacher and a yoga teacher. And you know, what a joy to, you know, there are times when you meet people that you really admire and they just rise to, you know, what you believed about them.
Cathy: So, and number one, number one is just our friends and family. I mean, you know, Todd and I have this family that supports us in this huge way. Like not only do they like support us financially sometimes where they buy their. You know, like, there are people calling us for coupon codes and everything, and our family buys their own tickets, you know what I mean?
Cathy: They’re like, no, no, we want to give you money to do this thing. Um, and, cause someone was going through the name [00:50:00] tags, I can’t remember if it was Sean or Jess, and they were like, oh, here’s a bunch of people who probably didn’t pay, like our family. I go, no, no, these people, like, Totally pay.
Todd: They, they support.
Cathy: They support. And, and they support in other ways too. Like they, the way that, you know, my sister was one of the, um, original members of our Zen Parenting Conference team.
That’s right.
Cathy: And, you know, she started the ball rolling and then my, you know, niece and nephew show up with their partners and they’re driving in from Chicago and all these other places.
Cathy: And my aunt flies in from Florida and all my best friends come, um, and support me every year. That’s I mean, come on. It’s so, um What’s the word, Todd? It’s so, I’ve so much, I’m so humbled by it. And, and I know we all have a good time and they’re like, what? It’s great. But when you put your heart into something and, and the people you love show up, it’s, it’s very touching.
Cathy: Yeah. Um, so I was pretty moved by that.
Todd: And I made it my mission to, because if we went back to year [00:51:00] one of the Zen Parenting Conference, I don’t know what the ratio is, was from women to men, but It was severely out of balance and it’s, it’s obviously still out of balance. There’s not as many guys as girls in that room, but it was a lot more balanced.
Todd: So I want to just thank, thank my, uh, guy friends who decided to support me and show up. It was wonderful. And then I think my favorite moment was us being, you know, people were applauding cause they knew it was our last one and we brought our daughters up there. And, um, that was really special. I really liked it.
Todd: I can’t wait to see the pictures that were taken in that moment. I’ve already seen a bunch of
Cathy: them. Are they good? Yeah, they’re really, and they’re all, you know, all different emotions, you know, laughing, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, the girls came up with us. The girls introduced us. Like the girls are kind of a big part of the weekend, you know, they’re, they’re leaving college to come up for this and bringing their partners and.
Cathy: You know, it’s just, my daughter missed a big speech event, you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s a big commitment,
Todd: sweetie. If Ellen and Sharon were doing a Zen parenting conference back in [00:52:00] 1982, I don’t know if I would have, or no, 1992, I don’t know if I would have left college to go support them.
Cathy: Ellen and Sharon are Todd’s parents.
Cathy: Um, probably not, but they, they,
Todd: they probably wouldn’t be putting on a conference, which I was going to
Cathy: say, there’s a lot of pieces to that. That probably wouldn’t be happening. Maybe out of spite. Out
Todd: of
Cathy: spite,
Todd: but
Cathy: we, we just had such a good time and, and I’m sorry, I, you know, those you may not like this, but Zen Parenting Conference is a party.
Cathy: Like we literally have a party on Friday night and then there was a party on Saturday night. Like it’s so fun and we will miss it so much, but it doesn’t mean we won’t, but it doesn’t mean we’re not going to do anything. We just need a rest. Um, and then we’ll figure out next moves. You know, there’s more to come.
Todd: Um, I want to say thanks to Jeremy Kraft. He’s a bald head of beauty, painting and remodeling throughout Chicago and area 6309 56 1800. So if you have a project called Jeremy and tell him Todd and Cathy sent you.
Cathy: And to those of you who were at the conference, it [00:53:00] was so good to see you. And thank you for listening and supporting us all these years.
Cathy: Um, we appreciate you so much and thank you.