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Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number 797. Three more to go, babe. Oh, that’s crazy. Till what? 800? Till the big 800. Okay. And, uh, which I think overlaps with our Zen Parenting Conference, which is also known as ZenCon25. I think that’s kind of a guccir.
Todd: It is. That’s really
Cathy: interesting. Cause we did not plan that. No. That was not discussed? No. And for our last conference, we’re gonna, that week we’re gonna hit 800. That’s, that’s interesting.
Todd: Honestly, we’re probably more like at 810 or 815 because I think when we did conversations with people we love, we put it in our Zen Parenting podcast, but we didn’t number it.
Todd: Okay. So for all I know, we’re at [00:01:00] 840. So it’s basically just a number. It’s just a number. Okay. But isn’t it all just numbers? It’s just a two cent. It’s just a two cent. Um, We are one minute and six seconds in to this podcast and we’ve already said two movie quotes that nobody’s say
Cathy: give away another book because somebody, we did a movie quote a couple weeks ago.
Cathy: Uh, we did the, I’m going to tell you who it is, it was the peanut butter and jelly sandwich quote from St. Elmo’s Fire and Rachel won and we sent her a book. So, we just did,
Todd: It’s just a two cent. It’s just a two cent. So if you know what that’s from, email me at Todd at ZenParentingRadio. com or you said it’s a guccir.
Todd: I don’t know what that’s from though. I do. Okay. Oh man, that’s a
Cathy: guccir. Oh, I do that. Okay. Yeah, but we can’t are we gonna do two books? Do two books. Let’s get crazy. Oh, come on.
Todd: So
Cathy: so people so two different people What if someone comes in with both answers?
Todd: Then they get a one One of your Restoring Our Girls book and one of Zen Parenting book.
Cathy: [00:02:00] Oh wow, that’s quite the thing. There’s
Todd: Restoring Our Girls. So anyways, if you know what either of those two random movie lines are from, just shoot me an email. ToddZenParentingRadio. com And we did have a winner for the um I said Rachel won, remember? Yeah, Rachel won.
Mm hmm.
Todd: Um, so this is what we’re going to do today.
Todd: We are going to go over your Zen parenting moment, which I thought was super good, but first, we are 18 days away from ZenCon 25. We just want to invite anybody who has the capacity to join us. This is our last conference. I think it’s our sixth or our seventh.
Cathy: Yes, and we have lots of, because people are kind and generous and helpful, we have lots of scholarship.
Cathy: So if you are somebody who’s like, oh, I’d go, but I just can’t afford the ticket, please email us.
Todd: Todd at ZenParentingRadio. com.
Cathy: Exactly. And let us know that. Especially if you are a teacher or a therapist or somebody who works with kids or a parent with a lot of kids or a parent who wants to get away or a couple that needs a date night.
Cathy: Because remember, Friday is kind of a fun party. We [00:03:00] have Glenn Phillips from Toad the Wetsprocket coming on Friday night to sing acoustic, um, and we’re going to have it all set up, you know, like we’re going to have table, like hi boys. It’s going to be like a bar. It’s going to be fun. There you go.
Todd: Good intentions, sweetie.
Cathy: Yep, that’s kind of the theme of the conference. We just, it’s really good talk, but there’s just a lot of good, you know, good intentions because that’s his song and, you know, good music and all sorts of good. So, um, don’t not come because, don’t, don’t let obstacles get in your way. It’s 2025, people. Yeah, come on.
Cathy: It’s 2025. Do something for yourself. Do something for your partnership. Do something for your kids. And it’s, you will love it. I, I can guarantee it.
Todd: And it’s our farewell.
Cathy: And it’s the last one.
Todd: So, um, let’s go. Um, so you wrote a moment and it’s called Starting the Year with Empowering Quotes. You have always been a quote freak.
Todd: I’m more of a movie quote freak and you’re a movie quote freak too, but you’re [00:04:00] also a inspirational book quote freak as well. Is that fair to say?
Cathy: Yes.
Todd: Um, and you, last week on, in the, on our podcast, we talked about using vision boards.
Cathy: Yes. Uh,
Todd: to kind of create vibes as a per, as opposed to setting goals.
Cathy: Yeah. I was just saying that for, cause I was talking about the things we can do to like start the year off. And I was saying that vision boards for me. Um. Well, how they kind of came in vogue was it was about, you know, the book, The Secret. And like, if you write it down, if you put a car on a vision board, you’ll get that car, which you know, whatever.
Cathy: It happens to people. Vision boards do have kind of a weird universal pull. Let me just say that. Because to me, if you put something on a board and you look at it over and over again, it reminds you, it’s, It activates the reticular activating system. Is that the right language? And so it does bring it, the possibilities become greater.
Todd: Sweet, did you say secret?
Todd: I just happen to have that on my soundboard. Of course you did because it [00:05:00] sticks. That’s right. Mr. Roboto. Are they from Chicago or am I making that up? I think so. I don’t know. No. Um, so I really love this moment and it’s weird because you kind of write a sentence and then you put a picture of the quote from your vision board area onto your substack.
Cathy: Yeah, and can I just tell you really quick what I did? So, you know, I write a substack every week and it comes out on Friday. So, And, um, last week I was, I was like, what do I want to do? And I’m like, well, I just want to share some things that already mean something to me. So I just walked around the house to all my vision boards.
Cathy: There, I, there’s just things everywhere. And I just took pictures of the ones that really spoke to me in that moment where I’m like, wow, this still resonates. Even if it’s 15 years old, I still love it. And I, you know, took pictures around the house and then I put it all together and I realized that it was 5 p.
Cathy: m. on Friday.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And I had, I was in the wrong day. We’ll put that
Todd: under the oops category.
Cathy: I was supposed to, I thought it was Thursday.
Todd: So your
Cathy: moment came out on a Monday. So I said, Todd, I’m just going to send it anyway. Go ahead. And then he said, no, [00:06:00] no, one’s going to look at that on Friday night or Saturday or Sunday.
Cathy: So that’s why it came out on Monday morning. Um, but I’m, you’re going to get another one on Friday. I’m going to get back on the sketch. You know what I mean?
Todd: That’s right. I was a little
Cathy: off the sketch. I
Todd: think we all were.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Um, we should play that lady. What lady? The lady, uh, the TikTok or the thread that you sent of the woman with rose.
Cathy: She was, I was basically her. I was, I was done with the aspect of like eating and drinking all the time. I was just more into the what day is it kind of
Todd: part. I wish I could find that, but, uh, I don’t know if I can. Maybe I’ll play it later. It
Cathy: was just basically her. I could send it to you during the show, but it was just basically her saying like, it’s that crazy week where, you know, you have.
Cathy: Christmas and, you know, all the celebrations and then you have this space in between that and New Year’s Eve and then you have New Year’s Day and everything. You’re just so full and you’re just so tired and, but you’re also not tired because you’re sleeping more or maybe some are, [00:07:00] some aren’t. Do, did you, do you feel like you slept more on this break?
Cathy: Did we sleep, we slept pretty well.
Todd: I mean, I slept in pretty good, I guess. I don’t know. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Um, I might be able to play it here. Let’s see. Okay, Give it a go. Uh, close this. Do this.
A dark whole time of the year where I don’t think anybody really knows what day it is. But, I think my body is just so full of like sugar and alcohol and cheese that I can’t really think straight anymore.
Actually yesterday my body was like. No mas. Like, I can’t do this anymore. It was like, my organs were like, Rose at the end of the movie Titanic, when she’s like, But then my mind stepped in, and it was like, Jack, and he was like, Don’t you do that, Rose! Don’t you say your goodbyes! And then I got my little whistle out, and I was like,
And I guess, like, a rescue boat heard me and came back for [00:08:00] me, because I poured myself a little glass of wine and ate a brownie, and I was like, I can do this. I’ve got this. Just a few more days left. Keep going!
Cathy: Keep going. Oh, that’s so good. We, we kind of had that moment, we, cause we got home from our time with our family and there’s just a lot of eating and wine and staying out late and all that.
Cathy: And then we got home and it took us a couple of days to like be normal people again. We had to like go to yoga and like have a normal meal and everything. And then it was time for New Year’s Eve.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: We’re like, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta
Todd: blow the whistle. Yeah, we blew the whistle. We gotta go
Cathy: back.
Todd: We did.
Todd: We played Jackbox
Cathy: TV till two in the morning. I know. We did very well. Like my, my daughter came home from her New Year’s Eve thing. And we were still partying down.
Todd: That’s right.
Cathy: She’s like, wow, you guys are more fun. I’m like, correct.
Todd: I got a feeling if our daughters were listening, they would get mad at you for saying partying down for some reason.
Cathy: Hey, I’m using language from my generation. Did we used to say party down? Of course we did. You just didn’t party down, so you don’t know what it means. Is that better than partying up? [00:09:00] Party down! Party down! Yeah, that’s what we would say. Party on, Wayne. Like, don’t think about it too much, because you did say that.
Cathy: I think I did say
Todd: it. I just don’t remember how it started, and it just means to party. And there’s a show called Party Down
Cathy: that we watched for a little bit. Remember? Adam Scott. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ken Marino. Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, so yes, but we’re trying to normalize today a little bit. So what I
Todd: love about your moments is they come in bullet points now.
Todd: You give me a list.
Cathy: Todd loves the list. I can’t promise you it’ll always be that way. I know, but for now I’m just enjoying it. I like to go with the flow.
Todd: So Sweetie has, uh, 10, uh, quotes that she thought are worth, um, sharing with the world. Her sub stack subscribers, and we’re going to use that as the basis of discussion today.
Todd: So the first one says that I’m forever, I’m a forever fan of befriending all our parts and inner monsters. And will you read the quote, sweetie?
Cathy: Uh, sure.
Todd: I think,
Cathy: uh, yes, I can pull it up. [00:10:00] It says, I am not looking to escape my darkness. I’m learning to love myself there. And it’s, uh, Rune Lazuli. Why does that speak to you?
Cathy: Because that, I have had that quote, I actually have another picture in my office of monsters and they’re, they’re really sweet. And it’s like they’re all kind of huddled together. Because the whole, it’s, you know, this, I got this quote way before I understood parts work. But it’s just understanding, That there’s all these different aspects of us.
Cathy: I used to think of them as being different ages, which I still do. And that sometimes there’s, you know, different parts of us that we just want to like deny or push away or we’re mad at, or we don’t want to hear, you know, maybe it says scary things or anxious things. And we’re like, no, no, no. I’m going to put you in a closet with the monsters.
Cathy: I’m not going to look at you. And, you know, what you learn if you go through therapy or any kind of treatment is you have to look. You have to engage and you have to, I gotta plug in my computer, Um, you have to be willing because that’s where a lot of your [00:11:00] behavior is coming from.
Todd: Yeah, it’s like shadowy and not to get all union.
Todd: Anya, but, uh, shadow is anything that we hide, deny, or repress. And if we keep hiding, denying, and repressing it, then it’s going to control us without us even knowing it. So instead, let’s have a conversation with these parts of us that are, that we think are messing us up, but in the end just need some acknowledgement, love, and acceptance.
Cathy: Yeah. And, you know, if you understand IFS internal family systems, you know, it’s just the same thing, but different language around there are certain parts of us that may be harming us. Where, you know, people who have eating disorders or suicidality or that, you know, really heightened anxiety or hypervigilance or whatever.
Cathy: But if we get to know that part, it did that in protection or distraction or, and we just have to, you know. honor it, understand it, for it to not be so bold. Yes. You know, like we have to help it be more relaxed and find a place
Todd: to integrate. And you may [00:12:00] not, uh, it, it, it’s probably asking too much for us, like, oh, we’re just going to heal this part.
Todd: Right. But notice I didn’t use that word. Right. Right. And instead, uh, Let’s just take a little bit of air out of its balloon.
Cathy: Or give it a place to sit. Give it a place to relax. Like, you know, it, cause I, I don’t mind what you said, you know, take a little bit cause it’s so hyper, you know, it’s so big, but you don’t, there’s never any like, okay, now I’m going to control you.
Cathy: It’s, it’s, You can, because it’s, it’s a young part of us and it found that if I do this thing, even if it’s somewhat harmful, at least it distracts me from this other harmful thing. And so it had purpose, but now it needs a place to say, Hey, I appreciate what you did and I’m sorry. You can go, you can go take a little nap.
Todd: Um, it reminds me of that Jeff Foster quote that I love so much. Our pain doesn’t need to be healed. It just needs to be held. Correct. Thank you, Jeff. So number two, even when we think we know there’s always something we can’t [00:13:00] foresee. That’s what I
Cathy: wrote.
Todd: I know. So I love this quote and I want you to read it.
Cathy: Okay. At, uh, let me see if I can pronounce this. Okay, at Ryoan ji in Kyoto, and please if I pronounce that wrong, I am sorry, there is a famous rock garden wherever in Japan. It a person stands one of the 15 rocks cannot be seen the garden reminds that always something unknowable is present just beyond what can be perceived or comprehended and that something is as much part of the real as any other stone amid the raked gravel.
Cathy: Um, that’s a Jane Hirshfield quote. It came from, I think, one of my calendars many, many, many years ago. And I love her because I have a few of her quotes in my room, but sorry, it’s, it’s kind of, um, um, The reading of it is complex. I mean, this, that’s why I wrote above it. Even when we think we know there’s always something we can’t foresee.
Cathy: Her whole point in the rock garden is depending on where you stand, you can’t see all the rocks. Right. There’s always
Todd: going [00:14:00] to be a curve ball. There’s always going to be a surprise. There’s always going to be something that shows up that we didn’t predict. And if we can go in knowing that as opposed to being surprised and judgmental and reactive towards it.
Todd: And it’s, it’s a pretty
Cathy: But I think it’s so funny because you are right. Everything you’re saying is correct, but I think about it the other way. See, I used this in political ways when I would get to, cause I’ve had this quote forever. This is the one from our office is when I was struggling with things, maybe decisions were being made, political decisions, like I’m talking 2016, 2017.
Cathy: Um, and I was like, Oh, There’s no way out of this. There’s nothing that anyone can do. And then all of a sudden, something would happen that no one had ever predicted. And so it can go both ways. It can be that things will be going along and something unpredictable, negative will happen, and that when something maybe, Negative is happening, something unpredictable positive can happen.
Cathy: Yeah, there’s a
Todd: silver lining in the dark cloud. Correct.
Cathy: I, that’s the way I used it, was like, [00:15:00] you don’t know. You think you know, but you don’t have all the pieces. Yeah,
Todd: so in other words, instead of being Debbie Downer about everything, Oh, the world just sucks, or my candidate didn’t win, or whatever it is, um, there’s always something that can come from, I remember my boss saying this to me, whenever things are really, really good, it’s not as good as you think it is.
Todd: And whenever anything’s really, really bad, it’s not as bad as you think it
Cathy: is. And I completely believe that. And I think there is a lot of humility in that. And I also think there’s just a lot of, if you’ve lived long enough, you just know that to be true. It’s, you know, it, and a lot of things, um, we, In our minds, believe that we see everything, we understand everything, we’ve experienced everything, we know what’s going to happen, and that’s completely not true.
Cathy: Like, there is a humility that we have to have with our own lives, especially with our children’s lives, where we may, you know, we make all these declarations, like, Well, if they don’t make the team, then they’re going to end up hanging out with a bad group and they’re going to be [00:16:00] drinking all the time and then I’m going to lose touch with them.
Cathy: I’m like, what are you talking about? You’re making up that whole story. You have no idea what’ll come out of this, but we do that to protect ourselves because we believe if the story we have in our minds, if that one works, if that one follows through, we feel safe. But to your point, even if the story we have figured out perfectly becomes the story that The reality, something, it doesn’t mean it’s going to go smoothly.
Todd: For some reason it reminds me of, uh, the Twilight Zone. What about it? There’s a, there’s a famous episode, it’s probably top 10 episodes of all time, and the man I think dies and goes to heaven. Okay. Okay. And everything, uh, so he goes, he loves to gamble and he realizes, and I might be screwing this story up pretty bad, but every bet he makes, he wins and he’s just ecstatic for a long time.
Todd: And then he realizes that. Part of the [00:17:00] fun of gambling is the possibility of losing, and then somehow at the end of this episode, uh, they, he realizes he’s not in heaven, he’s in hell.
Cathy: Right.
Todd: Isn’t that crazy? Yeah,
Cathy: well, and that totally makes sense to me, because that’s the thing that we have to understand about paradox, we have to understand that about, uh, Um, the binary that we have to understand that about joy and sadness.
Cathy: You can’t have one without the other. Yeah, there is no one without the other. There is like, we don’t know what joy is unless we’ve had sadness and we, unless we’ve had sadness, we don’t know what joy feels like. Like part of the reason I have no problem using the word joy, because I know in my life and I’m just talking about me, I know exactly what it is and it’s not, it’s not.
Cathy: And I have felt joy in the midst of grief. I, it’s not about everything’s good. Everyone’s fine. I have those moments where I look at Todd and I say, things are very calm right now. Let’s enjoy that. And I do get joy from that, but I have, you know, felt joy sitting at a bedside of someone dying. I have felt joy.
Cathy: You know, [00:18:00] when a child, when one of my children has really had a breakthrough and it’s been difficult or whatever, but I feel so happy for them that something has, you know, broken through, even though it’s painful.
Todd: I weirdly feel very, I don’t know if it’s joy or content, but when I’m at a funeral of not like somebody super close to me, but like say my buddy’s mom dies or something, or one of my customers part, whatever.
Todd: And I, I love just sitting, even if I don’t know anybody at the. at the wake. There’s a part of me that just likes, um, sitting there and one supporting whomever I love that just suffered this loss. But then there’s also like wonderful connection that happens at a wake. Like people are hugging, people aren’t fighting.
Todd: Um. People laugh a lot at wakes. And there’s a lot of laughter at wakes. And I just, just the energy of the room. Like there’s a part of me that does not like, you know, a funeral parlor room because of that same flower smell. The smell, yeah. Uh, but, uh, through another lens, I [00:19:00] really, really appreciate being at wake, specifically for ones that I don’t really know a lot of people, because I’m not, like, on either, you know?
Todd: Yeah,
Cathy: you can kind of be a voyeur. Yeah. I, I, it’s so interesting because I think you and I both tried with, um, funerals that we’ve had to put together, um, to find a different place. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Like, you’re like, we’re like, where else can we have this? I know. How can we do this? With all three of our parents, we ended up at a funeral parlor because there’s all these things that have to happen.
Cathy: Exactly.
Todd: Right. Like even my mom, she did, she got cremated. So it was just a,
Cathy: as did both my parents.
Todd: And so there was no casket or anything yet. You need a place where a lot of people can come and go and park and it’s just not,
Cathy: and send flowers and they know how to receive. There’s a whole setup for it. And so, you know, we tried to be so creative and I’m like, I’m too tired.
Cathy: I can’t deal with this right now. Let’s just. Go to the old, the old place. You
Todd: ready for number three? Yes. Uh, number three, the thing we can do every day to actually make a difference. What’s the quote?
Cathy: You know, [00:20:00] this is, I love this little sweet quote. It’s on my desk. It says, let us be kind and compassionate to remove the sadness of the world.
Cathy: And it’s easy. It’s this, just this little piece of paper and it was stapled to another piece of paper on top of another piece of paper. I have a picture of it. And someone who listens to Zen Parenting gave this to me. Yeah, they mailed it to me. And so I’ve kept it. I think it was in the first couple years.
Cathy: And so I, one of the reasons I wanted to share it is because I look at it every day, um, and because it’s the most simple thing we can do whenever, when people are like, what can I do to make a difference? Um, be kind.
Todd: Well, and the person who sent this to you, from all we know, may not. Listen to this podcast anymore, yet you still look at this on almost a daily basis.
Cathy: Gifts that people, and again, this is not a request for gifts. This was in the first couple of years when no one knew what podcasting was. And so they were like, Oh my gosh, you know, this is so great. I’m listening to, you know, now there’s so many podcasts. But, um, we used to get gifts a lot, like things like this.
Cathy: You know, people would send a quote or a magnet or a [00:21:00] little thing they made, um, and it was very nice. And so this one I just really love because it’s so, um, home grown, you know, just got a little staple like right on the side. It’s so cool.
Todd: It’s been weathered yet. It still does it.
Cathy: Yeah. And so it’s one of those simple things, you know, is, um, as you get a bigger perspective of life, as you get older, um, Um, you know, a lot of times I have no problem with ambition, I still have ambition, but you start to realize that the grind and the productivity and the ambition, it’s, it can be enjoyable, but that’s not where everything is.
Cathy: It’s really in the, you know, normal day to day experiences and, you know, so that’s what we can do every day. We can go out and be a good human being. Yep.
Todd: You ready for number four? Mm hmm. Number four is the perfect blend of specialness and humility and gender correction.
Cathy: The only reason I wrote in gender correction is because this is an old Why don’t you read
Todd: how it, how it reads and then you read your improvised version.
Cathy: So this is, as you can see, this is from 2021. So this is like from four years ago, that [00:22:00] when I got the quote and it says, when the ordinary person realizes he is a sage, when a sage understands he is an ordinary man. And when I put it on my wall, I took, um, you can look how old that marker is. I took a marker and changed it to when she is a sage and an ordinary woman.
Cathy: And I actually noticed I missed one.
Todd: There’s another one. So when the ordinary person realized, and we’ll just say she is a sage, when a sage understands she is an ordinary woman, what does this mean?
Cathy: So it’s a Zen saying it’s very, you know, again, remember the whole thing is Zen is paradox and accepting like.
Cathy: both sides and understanding that, um, it, it is the wide spectrum, right? Um, and when you understand that you are important and special, that’s vital. So you respect your time here, but when you also realize, because that’s what it means to be a sage, someone who’s wise and someone who’s important. When you also understand that you are [00:23:00] just an ordinary person, that you are just like everybody else and having the two understandings together is what makes the most grounded human being.
Cathy: I
Todd: love that one. Uh, number five, daily goal.
Cathy: It’s my daily goal. So this is also one of my favorites from many years ago. This is the one in our bed. This is in our bedroom, Todd. Um, someone asked me yesterday how to live an extraordinary life and said, I had no idea because I always thought it was more interesting to live an ordinary life and not miss a second of it.
Yeah.
Cathy: This kind of goes back to the ambition thing is I think, um, I’ll just speak for myself and not Todd, but obviously I’ve had a lot of lofty goals in my life to. Do podcasts and to present and teach and write books and stuff. And the truth is, is that I’ve had moments, Todd and I both have had moments that are pretty ex, you know, cool, powerful.
Cathy: Um, it’s a win. You’re, it’s a win. Like we were sitting on Oprah show with Ali, you know what I mean? We’re like, we’re doing this thing that I’m like, wow, this is [00:24:00] cool. I almost met Oprah that night. Oh God. So close. I mean, we were literally, that’s just so ridiculous. But anyway, we, when you really. After that moment, it’s really, that’s not it.
Cathy: There’s nothing like, and that’s the thing, you know, that is nice about, you know, the, the whole Jim Carrey thing about, he’s like, I wish everyone could get a million dollars. Cause they’d realize that’s not where the joy is. When you’ve had these moments of where you’ve like, you know, had a little fame or a little, or a moment or an opportunity.
Cathy: Cause Todd and I turn away a lot of opportunities where we’re like, yeah, that would bring this, but that wouldn’t bring happiness. You know, you’d get. a big thing or a big payout, but not necessarily happiness. And when you understand that, you’re like, I just want to, you know, I want to have my ambition and do my things.
Cathy: But my joy comes from my ordinary day to day life, taking care of my geriatric rabbit, going to a movie with Todd, sitting with my girls, having brunch, um, driving in my Jeep, which is one of my favorite things in the [00:25:00] world. You know, having a good conversation with a girlfriend, um, that, that’s life.
Cathy: Everything else that we’re striving for something that really doesn’t fill us.
Todd: Yeah. Um, I tried to find the Jim Carrey quote, but I couldn’t find it. But basically what he’s and just reasserting what you just said, he, I, he says something like, I wish everybody could be a millionaire for a day and realize that Not much change.
Cathy: There’s nothing in it. There’s no there there. And again, you know, you have to remember for people who are extremely poor, of course it changes their life, um, but when you get to a certain level where you’re not in poverty, the increase, there’s all this, you know, people research this to death and I feel like you and I used to know it off the top of our head, but you can get to a certain level and there is a small increase in happiness.
Cathy: But then after that, if you go to Million, two million, a billion. There’s no increase in happiness. So people put a lot of their, their focus and a lot of their time and a lot of their beliefs behind something that isn’t [00:26:00] true. And so it’s a, um, they miss their ordinary life. That’s really the, my ordinary life.
Cathy: of like my pillow that I love and, you know, my blanket and my, you know, my gray chair that I love. That’s just my ordinary life. Like when I think about struggles that I’ve had, um, where I’ve been really sad or there’s been a loss or all I want is that normal stuff. I just want to be. with people I love and, and have my, I’m saying pillow and blanket cause I like cozy things.
Cathy: I like comfort and I want to put on a sweatshirt and I want to put on warm socks and that’s what I want. I don’t want to go on a TV show. Do you know what I mean? Like that doesn’t, there’s nothing in that. Now, you know, someone listening may be like, well, I get joy from a different way. But, um, I will say, I gotta throw this out because the Golden Globes were last night.
Cathy: Go watch the movie The Substance. Um, [00:27:00] it’s a horror movie, so if you can’t handle horror, It’s actually body horror, so it’s less about you’re going to be scared of a monster and more about you have to watch really gruesome things. But I think there’s a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of messages in it about what we think we need to do to find happiness.
Cathy: And then when that comes to an end, what we are willing to do to literally not just deform our bodies, but our spirits and, um, You know, I don’t think it’s a new story. I just think it’s done a different way where it’s, so it’s more obvious. And Demi Moore won a Golden Globe.
Todd: And you screamed.
Cathy: I was so happy.
Cathy: She’s our girl, Todd. Yeah. Right. Like we St. Elmo’s, about last night. About last night. Ghost. Wisdom. Yeah, I don’t think anyone’s seen Wisdom, but you and I, um, you know a few good men. Um, you know, Jo Galloway, you know, she and she does not get her props in that movie.
[00:28:00] Yeah,
Cathy: she is so much better than She is, there’s so much misogyny in that movie.
Cathy: Aaron Sorkin does not write women very well. Let’s just say that. That’s, that’s known in the industry. That’s not a Kathy, you know, thing, even though it’s very obvious, but she’s like, you know, and she’s gone through a lot. If you’ve read her biography, whoa, like she’s gone through a lot. And the fact that she now in her fifties has won her first award, her first nomination, and then one, but she deserved it because that movie is beautiful.
Todd: Not that she’s been working towards the award, but there’s something very sweet about somebody being in the industry, she said, 45 years and finally won something, some substantial recognition. Well,
Cathy: and you know, she kind of, she said in her speech, nobody really, nobody really told me I was good at this.
Cathy: They’re just like, you can open a movie, you know, like she was saying, like so many of her movies, like Ghost is one of that, that year, that was one of like the biggest movies ever. And then she made the most money. She’s the one who, who like raised the bar for women. You know, she made like 20 million for [00:29:00] striptease or GI Jane or, you know, she was, she was it.
Cathy: You know, she was our person who, and then think about the vanity fair, you know, cover, was it vanity fair with the, with her pregnancy when she was pregnant with her. Um, and you know, there’s just, we just have so much history with her. And then she had such a crash after the, you know, the Ashton Kutcher marriage and not all because of her.
Cathy: There was there was. I have lots of thoughts about that marriage, um, and then, so read her biography. It’s good. It’s really good. And so I’m just so happy for her. It just feels rewarding for us as Gen Xers.
Todd: What do you think her best performance is aside from this last one? From an acting standpoint.
Cathy: I think Ghost is pretty incredible.
Cathy: Um, I think that, I mean, I love Jules in St. Elmo’s Fire. I’m not saying, oh wow, but I love that character. Um, she’s not gonna freeze to death in that room. No. Because it’s [00:30:00] only fall. Yeah. And she’s gonna be alright. A little
Todd: melodramatic. But
Cathy: that had nothing to do with her acting. Um, what else do I love her in?
Cathy: I think Ghost is probably the one where she really has to you know, bring it.
Todd: Yeah. Don’t you think? Agreed. Um, all right, let’s go to the next one. It’s, uh, kind of dovetails into the last one we just did. Number six is a reminder for me. Number seven. No, number six. Oh,
Cathy: it dovetails to number six. Is that what you said?
Todd: Yes. Okay. I’m sorry. A reminder for me that I share with my kids. It’s a little bit of a longer quote, but it’s important.
Cathy: Oh, I’m sorry. I’d skipped ahead. You’re right. So this one, I love this. This is, um, from a board that I made last year when I was trying to like, get really grounded. And I wish I could tell you where I got this.
Cathy: I, I don’t know where I got this, but it’s called, um, um, None of it is real. The societal timelines, the expectations, the rules we follow that were set for us by strangers who do not know us and do not know our lives. It’s all made up. And yet we let it [00:31:00] destroy us. Achieve this by that age. Get there by this time.
Cathy: It’s bullshit. It was created and contrived. Fabricated as an invisible yardstick. And we let it pull us around like a rope around our necks. Let it go. I give you permission to let it all go. Observe how much freer you are and how much less of a failure you feel. You haven’t failed when none of it’s real.
Todd: So I just want to like share my experience when I read this because January is an extra busy time for me. A lot of Zen parenting responsibilities, a lot of
Cathy: men living
Todd: responsibilities, a lot of JVI responsibilities. It all seems super important, right? And if, God forbid, there was a sickness in my family, my dad got sick or whatever, all of it would fall to the side.
Todd: So, like, I, I’m already, like, predicting, like, I’m gonna be spending less time with my dad or my wife or my kids because I need to get all these other things done. And I’m just trying to use this quote as inspiration to remind myself that all these things that I think are so important, [00:32:00] in the grand scheme of things, are not nearly as important as other things.
Todd: is my ego or some part of me wants to think it is.
Cathy: So one suggestion I have for you because I use it myself, it’s um, is you have to make notes to yourself to remind you that when you’re in that like soldier state where you’re like going in autopilot because you can get lost where you believe. Yeah. You will, I will say to you like, hey, and maybe you’re not in the mood to hear it from me, so you’re just, More annoyed and defensive, but I’ll be like, hey, sit down.
Cathy: This is fine. And you’re like, no, I have to get this done. Yeah, you’re very certain and and I get it like it’s due the next day or I promised them a blog. It’s not that I ever am denying that it needs to be done. But I think that, um, We believe everything to be that important. You know what I mean? And, you know, one of the things I talked about last week in my sub stack and we talked about on the show is doing a weekly opt out, like looking at your week and going, what did I say I would do [00:33:00] here that I don’t really want to do?
Cathy: Like you have gotten to a place in your career, Todd, where you don’t have to do everything you think you do. And sometimes you have to pick up balls that other people dropped, you know, because of your leadership positions and stuff. But there’s a lot of things that you’re like, I have to go to coffee with this guy, or I have to meet this guy, or I have to travel here.
Cathy: And you really don’t. You’ve just, you’re still working with the 35 year old brain. Yeah. Of I have to provide for my family. Like many of you listening to the show, Most of you, I think, are closer to our age because you’ve been listening a long time, but for those of you that are listening that are, have young kids, you may still be in the throes of, dude, I got to,
Todd: yeah, I can’t
Cathy: breathe, right?
Cathy: I can’t breathe. I got to do these things. And I get that. And even though I still think you need to make space, I’m not saying that’s okay.
Todd: Well, one example I’ll give is like, You know, when you’re rushing the kid out the door to get to preschool because it’s important that they get there on time, like, you
Cathy: know what we think is important?
Cathy: Preschool. And then, then we get to elementary school and we’re like, okay, this is serious. Cause there’s like a principal and they’re going to get in [00:34:00] trouble. And then we go to middle school and then we’re like, Oh my God. Elementary school was nothing. Middle school. School. We got to really buckle down because things get serious.
Cathy: And then we’re in high school and we’re like, middle school is nothing. High school, everything means something. We’re so over. It’s a rat race. Total rat race.
Todd: Remember
Cathy: when I would get upset when the girls couldn’t go to school in elementary school? Oh, I do. And I would like be upset as if like something bad was going to happen.
Cathy: And it’s so ridiculous now. And, but you can’t know that you need someone older or someone who’s been through it to be like, Oh, I’m It’s not about blowing it off and disrespecting teachers or anything. It’s about remembering what’s most important. Yeah. And if you have a sick kid or you’re sick or something’s going on in life, it’s okay.
Cathy: It’s okay. You can have space.
Todd: Um, how we want to do number eight, because what you, what you wrote is a lot, Longer than than the quote itself. Do you want me to read number eight? Well, we
Cathy: actually skipped over
Todd: seven.
Cathy: You and I are having number issues. Okay, so
Todd: number seven a reminder to notice the daily joys we often take for granted and then in the [00:35:00] picture What is it that you share?
Cathy: Well, I and again, I don’t know where I got this but it’s just someone who drew all these little cartoony things like a star and a bird and coffee and a cat and People hugging and a house and a flower and a guitar and it says careful We’re We quickly get used to most things and easily forget how amazing they are.
Cathy: This is very similar to what we were saying in, you know, because I’ve had enough challenges and I know many of you have as well, you know really what is most important and it’s really those really basic things. So don’t forget because sometimes when, like, kind of like the Twilight Zone episode that Todd was talking about, that he keeps winning the hands.
Cathy: Yeah. And so he’s like not enjoying it anymore and it becomes old news. And we’re like, Oh, you know, we do that this a lot with friends and partners. We’ll be like, Oh, my partner annoys me. What if they really weren’t there? And maybe for some of you that’s best, but you know, you, you have to appreciate.
Cathy: these people in your life if, you know, because the consequence of not having them there would be so devastating. And so we have [00:36:00] to recognize where to invest our energy. Okay.
Todd: Ralph Waldo Emerson. I just shared this with Skylar on the way to May’s house last week. So we started talking about the stars or whatever, and this is a Ralph, Ralph Waldo Emerson quote.
Todd: If the stars should appear but one night every thousand years, how man would marvel at a door.
Cathy: Oh my God.
Todd: Right. So
Cathy: much so. I thought about that because whenever we’re in Florida, everybody wants to see the sun go down. Yeah. There’s a lot of like, let’s go see the sunset. Let’s go see the sunrise. And for me, because it feels like something else to put on a list, it can feel daunting.
Cathy: Kind of like, okay, we have to stop everything and go see this. Yeah. And we, and let me say what go see means. Walk down the street. Yeah. It’s not hard. Right. But then when I do it, I’m like, this is insane. It’s pretty
Todd: cool.
Cathy: Like, and there’s so many, many messages in Sunrise Sunset. It’s not just about, let me go see some pretty colors above the ocean.
Cathy: It’s, it’s, the sun always comes up. We always, the sun [00:37:00] goes down and we rest. Like there’s a, um, message in it.
Todd: Plus there’s something communal about it. Like there’s a whole bunch, you know, there are everybody’s in vacation mode, but there’s so many people in the beach just celebrating life, looking at the sun sink into the water.
Todd: It’s quite miraculous.
Cathy: I know we all, there’s that appreciation or the stargazing or the hiking, you know, people, you meet people on the way who were, there’s a recognition of what is beautiful.
Todd: I’m going to read number eight. Okay. You say, I’ve had this one for at least 15 years and it always reminds me of this parable.
Todd: A rabbi named Zuzia died and went to stand before the judgment seat of God. As he waited for God to appear, he grew nervous, thinking about his life and how little he had done. He began to imagine that God was going to ask him, why weren’t you Moses? Or why weren’t you Solomon? Or why weren’t you David?
Todd: But when God appeared, the rabbi was surprised. God simply asked, why weren’t you Zuzia? I love that one. That’s pretty good. And then what’s the picture that you [00:38:00]
Cathy: So it’s, I said this, the picture, again, don’t know where I got it, um, it’s on my original board, which has been there for 15 years. And it said, it’s a picture of like kind of a disheveled person in a crown and they’re talking to a woman in a crown.
Cathy: And he says, what do you think one should do before one dies? And the woman just says, live. Yeah. And to me, live means not live, like go have a party and do this, but live as you. Yeah. Be you. Be you, because this is it. Like the whole, like, striving because we want to impress our parents, or striving because we want to be seen a certain way, Or, you know, pretending to be something so we’re liked or popular or wanting to like be in a certain crowd.
Cathy: It’s like, if that’s not you, what a colossal waste of time. Because the whole point in being here is to enjoy the moment. you and who you are and what you like and what you want to do. And the more that you are that [00:39:00] the more you draw people to you that are very similar. And it’s not some draw people to you.
Cathy: Like all of a sudden you have a ton of people around you. Sometimes it’s just one or two, but it’s more. Meaningful than a big group of people who are nothing like you, because that is, that can feel very lonely. Loneliness is not about being literally alone. You can be in a group and be very lonely. You can be in a marriage and be very lonely.
Cathy: It’s about do you feel like yourself? And do you feel like the people you’re surrounding yourself with know who you are? And know who you are just means They understand like, you know, Todd knows that I talk about my body temperature a lot, Todd knows I like a blanket, Todd knows that, you know, he knows what bugs me, he knows, so, and, and some of it is probably annoying to him, but at least he knows it.
Cathy: Like I’m not hiding who I am and vice versa. You know what I thought
Todd: about when I, uh, heard this one? What? You and I used to be big [00:40:00] Wayne Dyer fans before that beautiful man passed away. And he used to talk, it’s funny, he was very repetitive. Or maybe it’s because we kept listening to the same stuff. We just read
Cathy: the same book.
Cathy: We were, we were repetitive.
Todd: Yeah, we were repetitive. And, uh, He used to talk about this philosopher named Kierkegaard. Yeah. And I think he wrote a book or something. I don’t even know who Kierkegaard is, but he gets to the end of his life and he’s on his deathbed and he has this realization. The realization is what if my whole life was wrong?
Todd: Isn’t that Tolstoy? I don’t think so. It’s just Sorin Kierkegaard.
Cathy: Well, Leo Tolstoy wrote a book about Ivan Ilyich and that was his awareness.
Todd: I could be screwing these things up.
Cathy: Well, he talked about both of them a lot, but he, um, Leo Tolstoy wrote a book called The Death of Ivan Ilyich, and when he’s on his deathbed, he realizes what if my life was be screwing that up, but
Todd: anyways.
Cathy: But that’s, that’s the, you know, The whole thing about the, the brawny wear, you know, the five regrets of the dying, you know, [00:41:00] one of them is I didn’t live as myself, I did what everybody else wanted me to do, and, you know, what that looks like in real time is just, what do you like? It’s so, to me, I love talking to teenage girls about this because they’re so interesting about what they think they’re supposed to like and what the culture tells them to like and who they’re supposed to be and what they really like.
Cathy: And, and sometimes there’s a mix. It’s not like it’s all You know, it’s not like they’re lying about everything. Some things they do like that the culture likes, but it’s really fun to remind them to not think poorly of themselves or believe that the things they like are not valuable because
Todd: that’s,
Cathy: that’s who they
Todd: are.
Todd: So, uh, number nine, two left. I just found this one online just a few days ago. A reminder of why writers write, teachers teach, artists share their art. What’s the quote? It just says, why
Cathy: bother? It’s a just big on, I think I got this one online. I’m pretty sure. Why bother? [00:42:00] Because right now there is someone out there with a wound in the exact shape of your words.
Cathy: Boom. So, I mean, you know, there are a lot of people who will say, I’m not going to do a sub stack or I’m not going to write a book or I’m not going to do a podcast because there’s too many already and everyone’s already saying the same thing. And you have no idea what impact you can have if it’s something you want to do.
Todd: If you can change one person’s life, put them on a trajectory that they otherwise wouldn’t be on. It changed one person’s
Cathy: day where you’re just like, you’re okay, or you say something funny. Like so many podcasters changed my day.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And, um. You know, so many books changed my day and what a gift.
Todd: Um, why don’t you go ahead and talk about number 10?
Todd: So the
Cathy: last one I just kind of did for fun because I was, uh, finishing up and, and as Todd knows in our kitchen, we have pictures of my parents and Todd’s mom because we like to talk about them and think about them all the time. And my sister had gotten me this mug that says, ask me about my book. And I said it in front of them because, All three [00:43:00] of them obviously are gone, but they would be, you know, your mom would have bought a bunch of copies of my book and my parents would have been asking me about it every day and my dad would have been, you know, like they would have been pushing me a little bit in a good way.
Cathy: I’m proud, you know, and, um, so I just kind of remember that they would be saying, Kathy, go share your book. So everybody go by Restoring Our Girls because You could develop a relationship with your daughters if you haven’t already that you’re really proud of and that can last. Not only a lifetime, but I said beyond because I still have a relationship with my parents and my mother in law.
Cathy: Like, I, I have all these great memories. Just the fact that, um, I’m like, they would be supporting me right now. I know what they’d be doing and saying, you know what I
Todd: mean? And we believe that they actually are.
Cathy: They, well, they’re the whole, right? It’s like that thing where I know they’re telling me. You know, I can hear them.
Cathy: Yeah. I hear them. So, you know, these relationships we build are for the [00:44:00] moment, they’re for the future, they’re for our spirit, they’re for our soul, they’re for the continuing evolution of our family, they’re for, they’re to decrease generational trauma, they’re to, um, pass on less, um, Baggage. Um, we’re not just doing it.
Cathy: You know, I saw this great quote, Todd, you watched that Ricky Gervais, uh, show, right? About the death. He was really, his wife died or something. I don’t think I did. You did. I know you did. Cause you talked to me about it. Oh, really? Yeah. You watched the whole series. His wife dies and he’s like contemplating why he’s here.
Cathy: Okay. Anyway, there’s a, there’s a, quote from it, um, a clip from it that’s been on TikTok that I’ve seen a lot where I think he’s asking about God, because we know Ricky Gervais is an atheist. And, um, this woman says, you know, happiness is such a wonderful thing that happiness is beautiful, even when it’s not ours.
Cathy: And she said, people plant trees that they will never sit [00:45:00] under. They plant the trees for someone else to be happy under it. And that’s the beauty of being human. And that’s what I think about when we’re talking about a relationship with our girls. It’s not just for now.
Todd: No. Um, can I pivot to your book?
Todd: Sure. So what I just did was I kind of flipped through the book and I have a bunch of things underlined. I have a bunch of things starred and I just randomly picked a spot and I think it kind of falls into what we’re saying. So. Uh, in Chapter 3, you have, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, about 8 different, uh, parts of that chapter which is a guide for real conversations.
Todd: And the one I landed on was Encourage Critical Thinking, and I’m just going to read two sentences from page 63. Um, you’re quoting like what one of our daughters might say to us, the whole school is talking about me or I’m a failure. Failure at everything. And then you go on to say, later on, immediately pushing back or denying what they feel only puts them in a defensive position and most likely ends the conversation.
Todd: You care to [00:46:00] expound on that?
Cathy: Well, I think critical thinking necessitates some role modeling in a conversation like that. And as soon as you have a kid who says, Um, you know, every, every, I’m a failure, everybody hates me or whatever. We want to be like, no, they don’t, or don’t be ridiculous. And we want to like dispel that thought and instead it’s a, it’s an opportunity to go explain to me, give me more info.
Cathy: Like I try and be very light in those moments, like, okay, tell me the story because instead
Todd: of quickly saying, no, no, everybody loves you or whatever.
Cathy: Because the truth is, is our kids know better. What they’re doing is like we all do, is we’ll, like, it’s kind of like when we wake up and we’re like, oh my god, this is the most crap day.
Cathy: It, it’s really not. We’re just having a crap moment, right? So when our kids say, everybody hates me, they’re, they’re not stupid. They know that, I mean, in less extreme situations, but they know not everybody hates them. They just Feel that way, right? So you have to like, ask the question, tell me about why you’re thinking that.
Cathy: Allow them to expand and usually what comes out of it is, [00:47:00] I know not everybody hates me, I’m just saying, so a funny one that I’ve been, that happened a couple weeks ago is my daughter Skylar said, she came home and she’s like, Mom, I want to do this right, because she, she always retells me how she said it.
Cathy: She’s like, Mom, I haven’t been eating all week.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Which totally freaked me out, because if you read my book, you know that Skylar has had some history with struggling with eating. And, um, I was like, What do you mean? I’m like, this is, you know, I actually was kind of chill. Like I didn’t get mad, but in my mind, nervous system, yeah, my nervous system got, and I was like, well, then we got to figure this out and slow down.
Cathy: And she’s like, no mom. I mean, I didn’t. Um, I wasn’t eating this week and I, and basically she had to explain to me two or three times because in slang, in Gen Z and probably in Gen Alpha too, you say when you did something well I totally ate.
Yeah.
Cathy: Okay. A T E. I ate. And so if you’re not eating during the [00:48:00] week it means I didn’t eat this week so I’m not doing well.
Cathy: Yeah. Okay. So. Quite a difference. Quite a difference. So I was like, okay. Got it. Now I understand. And so then we had a conversation. I’m like, okay, why did you not eat this week? What is, and she was like, well, this happened and this happened. So, you know, we, it’s an opportunity. It’s a curiosity opportunity.
Cathy: Just ask them why don’t, you know, one of the other things in the book is quit turning every conversation into a lesson. Just be a normal human being. Who’s like, tell me why. And again, remember when you’re struggling with being a normal human being and you want to tell them that’s not true. Um, Let me tell you all the things you have.
Cathy: You don’t notice what you’re grateful for. That’s your discomfort with their discomfort. And I, and I do this all the time. Something that one of my girls will say a lot is she’ll be like, I just need a win today. And the first thing I do is I’ll start pointing out all these wins she’s had. She’s like, no, no, I just need a win today.
Cathy: Like she doesn’t want to hear. All the wins she’s already had. She’s trying to, she’s trying to [00:49:00] say to me, I don’t feel like I’m having wins. Do you see
Todd: what I mean? So, um, okay. So, uh, last chance for conference, two and a half weeks away.
Cathy: Gosh, you have to come.
Todd: And, uh, Restoring Our Girls is out. Uh, people are buying it.
Todd: People are reading it. So if
Cathy: you’ve read it and you feel like you can give it a five star review, if you liked it, if you thought it was helpful, uh, Um, I encourage you to go onto Amazon or onto Goodreads and let people know that it, these are the things that we have to do for marketing and if you didn’t, if it was not your thing, just don’t worry about it.
Todd: And I want to say thank you to a few of our sponsors of ZenCon 25. Jeremy Kraft from Avid Company, bald headed beauty, painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area. David Serrano from Ameriprise. He’s going to have a tabletop at the conference. A longtime friend of the podcast. And then finally, our wonderful friend, Jenny Kopac from Science Olympiad.
Todd: Uh, thank you to all of those sponsors. Uh, many of them are going to have [00:50:00] tabletops at the conference. We have
Cathy: a lot of sponsors this year. Yeah,
Todd: it’s going to be off the
Cathy: hook. So that’s not the, those are just three of them. Yeah. There’s more to come. Yeah.
Todd: Uh, keep trucking. See you next week.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.
