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Todd: Do do do do do do. Here we go. My name’s Todd and this is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 794, I believe. Why listen to Zen Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding. And always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s well being is in fact a parent’s self understanding.
Todd: On today’s show, uh, we’re going to be going deep into the book that Cathy wrote that got released last Tuesday. Congratulations, sweetie.
Cathy: Thank you.
Todd: No, I didn’t, I didn’t mean to do that. No. Hopefully.
Cathy: Well, that would be nice, but that’s
Todd: not,
Cathy: that’s not
Todd: what I really say. It’s not why you wrote the book. We were supposed to, [00:01:00] uh, we’ve done 794 podcasts and I think we’ve missed one week when your dad died.
Todd: I think. And then when I had the flu that first time. And when you had the flu. So this will be our third. And I think it’s the third time in 14 and maybe almost 15 years, because we’re coming up on January, I think we started in January, that we missed a podcast. Last week we did. Last week we did. And why did we do that, sweetheart?
Todd: Because I got the flu again. Oh, that’s really So I What was your experience of the flu? What I think, I think people wanna like just give an overview. How’d it go?
Cathy: Well, can I give my, give just like a one minute on my first time ever having the flu. Sure. Which was in 2017.
Todd: I actually have that podcast pulled up of when we recorded, when you weren’t fully recovered.
Todd: If we wanna laugh, I just, I do not, I just don’t know if you wanna laugh at yourself. I don’t know. Okay.
Cathy: What I know is that I did get the flu shot, by the way, in case anyone’s wondering. Um, and it’s worked for this many years, [00:02:00] um, because I’ve gotten the vaccine every year. But then I got it this year and I still got the flu.
Cathy: And the reason why I wanted to talk about when I got it in 2017 is I was sick for about a month. There’s just something, I don’t know what it is with the flu, but it just like takes over my body, um, ravages my lungs, which is what it does to everybody. I’m not special, but I just sometimes feel like I’m sicker longer than your average bird with the flu.
Cathy: Um, So that was a whole experience. I don’t even want to talk about that because that was like life altering month long of being ill. This was just about seven or eight days. I’m actually on day eight right now, right?
Todd: Well, you started to feel a little funky on Saturday. Now, it’s Monday. So that’s like eight Nine, it’s like ten days.
Cathy: Yeah, so I am definitely up and around, obviously doing this podcast. I think my voice sounds clear. Um, Ish. Ish. Uh, but I missed, so, I missed life for about a week, so I missed my book. Uh, my public, what is it called, my drop date, [00:03:00] my, Your launch. My launch. I missed it. I was asleep. Um, so that’s unfortunate. It was funny cause I was looking at this picture I took that’s on Instagram and it was when my book was bought.
Cathy: Um, cause that’s, that’s a huge day, right? You’ve got these huge days, your pub day. And, but the biggest day for me as an author is when someone buys your book. And, um, because that means it’s time to write and you’re ready to go. And I was already writing, but. And it’s just so funny to look at her because I want to be like, hey, on your pub date, you’re going to be sick.
Cathy: Yeah, you’re not going to care. You’re not going to care. No, and I did not, but you can’t, you know, that’s the thing is like, I even right now, I’m just obviously still slower. Um, you can’t, uh, you can’t be focused on the things that, you normally do where you’re running around from place to place. It’s impossible.
Cathy: And I think that the truth is what we all really want is to be well. And sometimes we take it, um, take for granted [00:04:00] when we’re well, and then we find other ways to criticize ourselves or be miserable. Yeah. And you know, I’m still kind of living in the place of, Oh, I can get up. Oh, I can have something to eat.
Cathy: like I’m still in that like really basic needs place. Like I missed a whole wedding last weekend. My, um, roommate from college, her daughter got married, huge deal. First friend with a daughter getting married, missed the whole thing. Like totally have missed life. Um, and it sucks. And then I also have to think about the fact that at least I’m not, at least my body’s healing, et cetera.
Cathy: I think anybody who has dealt with either chronic pain, which I have, cause unfortunately. A part of flu is you get, at least for me, is I also get migraines. So that’s unfortunate. Stack that
Todd: on top of everything else.
Cathy: That’s a big part of my history is that kind of chronic pain or people, like I know people right now who are going through chemo, who are having to deal with all the [00:05:00] side effects of that.
Cathy: Um, or I, I, another one of my friends just had a surgery. She’s dealing with the side effects of that, of her shoulder. And when you’re not well, you’re like, why don’t I enjoy my life when I’m well? You know, why am I like All this stuff. Right. Why am I running around thinking I’m not doing enough? Why do I focus so much on what everyone thinks?
Cathy: Why do I And these are very great lessons that tend to get reabsorbed and you just kind of continue on with life and, and do the same patterns. But I really do try. To be more aware like today, you know, you know, what was so sweet everybody. I’m gonna share this It’s kind of personal but I have a hard time standing up for a long period of time because of my lungs They’re they’re really, you know, they really went through it and still are and I couldn’t blow dry my hair today So Todd, it’s like let me blow dry your hair and that was really nice And I’m going to let you do that because
Todd: it was nice.
Todd: Well, even when you’re not feeling, even when you’re [00:06:00] feeling well, somebody blow drying your hair is kind of a soothing thing. It was very nice. And if you’re sick, it’s probably even more soothing.
Cathy: Oh yeah. And Todd took care of me the whole time I was sick. It’s not like that’s the first thing he’s done. I couldn’t have survived if Todd hadn’t taken care of me.
Cathy: But you know, you know, moms, I’m going to speak to you for a second when you start to feel better and everybody kind of puts you back into your place. Yeah. Okay.
Todd: Go start taking care of everything.
Cathy: Go back. You’re fine now. And I told Todd, I’m always leery because I am getting better, but I have moments where I still have to sit down and, you know, I can’t breathe very well.
Cathy: I make funny sounds with my lungs and, uh, and I don’t, um, sorry, that’s not, that’s not crying. That’s, um, a breathing thing I’m having. Um, and I don’t want everyone to be like, Uh, you’re still sick, but I’m trying.
Todd: I’m doing my best. You’re doing a dance in your head of what people are, what, what Who are the people though?
Todd: Me and our kids. No.
Cathy: Oh. The people in my head are me. Oh,
Todd: right.
Cathy: Yeah. It’s, it’s not, I’m not blaming you. I’m not saying you’ve [00:07:00] said it. The girls haven’t said it. Right. Yeah. You’re doing a dance in your head about what you think. Correct. I should be doing. Yes. And so when I’m saying what everybody thinks, I’m talking about all the
Todd: parts of you.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah.
Cathy: So anyway, I just appreciate, uh, I want to say this then going to the book. for those of you who texted me, emailed me, put something on social media. Um, you know, just bought it. And people were sending me texts where they bought like four books as gifts. Or I just cannot, um, express how grateful I feel.
Cathy: And, and if I didn’t respond last week, please don’t take that as any sign of anything because I wasn’t responding to anything. Um, and I just thank you. And, um, and I look forward to hearing what people think, not like, Ooh, it’s good or bad, but like
Todd: this was helpful or this was true or whatever. I was rereading a certain section because I knew we were going to talk about it on today’s podcast.
Todd: And you said to me, uh, it’s weird to know that [00:08:00] people are reading this right now. Is it weird every time you write a book? Because this is your fifth book.
Cathy: Yeah, this is, um, this book is interesting because it’s probably, I feel the most like I did it with a lot of people because so many people contributed their own information and stories.
Cathy: I mean, I literally had Google Spreadsheets of information girls had given me. Um, or quotes they had said, or please will you include this? So this was a group project in my mind of like girls for the past couple decades, between 12 and 25, what they’ve told me. So I felt very, like if anyone ever, I said to Todd a while ago, if anyone ever questioned me, like, I don’t know about this, I’d be like, sorry, this is the case.
Cathy: Now I’m not saying it’s the case for everyone. Girls are not a monolith, but these are experiences that girls were having over and over again. Um, so in that way, I feel most confident, but I also shared some of the most personal things. Um, the girl, my daughter, shared some stories in the book [00:09:00] that are quite personal.
Cathy: Um, and so it’s also the most open,
Todd: um,
Cathy: regarding, um,
Todd: Our own experiences. So the name of the book, and we’re going to talk about a very specific section today because it happens to be where I am today in my parenting journey, but just, uh, in case you’re watching us on YouTube right now, because we do post all our stuff on YouTube, the name of the book is Restoring Our Girls, How Real Conversations Shape Our Daughters Lives, Help Them With Teen Challenges, and Remind Them They matter.
Todd: So, um, I think the title of today’s podcast is going to be called One Way Connection. Okay. And the reason I want to call it that is because that’s something you said to me when I was trying, when we went to McDonald’s last week to get you orange juice or whatever. That
Cathy: was our first outing.
Todd: Yeah. That was nice.
Todd: Thank you. Yes. And it has to do with, um, my 17 year old is very busy right now. She’s busy with school and work and [00:10:00] extracurriculars. And I feel. Um, like I’m missing her and I feel like I’m screwing things up. And I feel that in the morning when she’s reading her book that I want to connect with her cause it’s really the only consistent time that I can connect with her.
Todd: But. It’s morning, and she’s about to go into eight meetings, and I say meetings because that’s just what I like to call school, eight classes that she probably doesn’t, isn’t excited to go into, and she just wants a little bit of serenity before she has to walk into that space. And I felt like, how can I connect with her?
Todd: And the bottom line is, she doesn’t want to connect in the morning. She wants to read her book. She wants to eat her waffles, eat her strawberries, and you know, And blueberries. And get off to school. And so There’s a section in the book, page 134, called Connect With Me, and we’re going to talk a little bit about that.
Todd: But first, um, last night, because this is getting released [00:11:00] on Tuesday, we had a book club talk. Is that what you want to call it?
Cathy: Well, I offered a free virtual workshop for those who bought the book and that was last night.
Todd: I feel like we should consider doing this once every now and again for anybody who buys the book or anybody on Team Zen.
Todd: Sure. And just talk about your book just to keep the energy of the book going. Happy to. So if you buy the book or you join Team Zen, uh, stay tuned for more details. Kathie, you’ll have to figure it out. Um, speaking of Team Zen, I do want to, uh, say thank you to Christina from Plainfield who’s our new Team Zen member.
Todd: Hi
Cathy: Christina.
Todd: Um, and I’m just going to give her some applause for that.
Cathy: Thank you. Love Team Zen.
Todd: We have so many cool things coming up. Yes, we do. Um, and then we’re going to talk about the conference later on in the podcast, so I’m not going to burden the listeners with that quite yet. Other than that, we’re going to have a Q& A.
Todd: We’re going to crush an amazing weekend in Oakbrook, January 24th, 25th. Is that right? You got it. All right. Um, but first back [00:12:00] to me, sweetie, I want to talk about me for a second and it’s one of these.
Terminating a bat. Terminating a bat.
Todd: So, real quick, before we get into the book, I just want to share that I’ve been making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches since I was probably seven years old and I am somebody who really tries his best to make the best peanut butter and jelly sandwich possible.
Todd: Now everybody makes like different types of peanut butter jellies. Like I like it crunchy peanut butter, yummy jelly on white bread. You don’t have crunchy peanut butter. I know we don’t. Oh. Because I’m too cheap to buy two different types of peanut butter. So I just roll with the creamy. Yes, but one thing you taught me Just when I thought like there’s nothing more to learn about making PB& Js you taught me something because The jelly comes out clumpy.
Todd: Does that make sense? It’s hard to spread the jelly and what I’ve been doing is I’ve been putting the peanut butter on one piece of the bread on one One of the two slices. And I’ve been putting [00:13:00] jelly on the other one. And what you said to me is, no, no, no. You put the jelly on the peanut butter. Because it spreads better.
Todd: Because it spreads better. Yeah. And I’m just like, I wish I would have known that 47 years ago. I
Cathy: don’t think this is a tournament of bad.
Todd: It’s a tournament of good. It’s a tournament of bad on me for not knowing how to make the proper peanut butter and jelly sandwich. So this is for anybody else out there that’s been making PB& Js and get frustrated at the clumpiness of the jelly, put the jelly on the peanut butter and it spreads better.
Todd: Sweetie, I thought you were pulling a Wendy Beamish there for a little bit. I know. If anybody knows, I’m not even going to say who Wendy Beamish is, but if you do know who we, Wendy Beamish is, send me. There is no way people know who Wendy Beamish is. Somebody out there is going to know who Wendy Beamish is and the hint is peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
Todd: And the best peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And email me at Todd at ZenParentingRadio. com and I will send you a free copy of Restoring Our Girls. We really will do it. Only for the first one, because if you’re second in line, too bad. [00:14:00] So anyways, I’ll be interested to see if anybody knows who Wendy Beamish is.
Todd: And no Googling. You’re not allowed to Google. Well,
Cathy: how do we
Todd: control that, Todd? Honor system, sweetie, because people are going to join join last night’s book club talk thing and that was the honor system, right? True. So anyways, okay, so back to the subject at hand. One way connection. So I said to you, I’m really frustrated and you said something to me of, yeah, Tide, you’re frustrated every time any of our daughters are a junior in high school, you get frustrated.
Todd: And first thing I want to own is that you’re right. And I do forget, like, I forgot that our kids get so busy, you know, they’re busy the whole time, but junior high school is a really intense time for most high schoolers, not all, but most. And, you know, Um, I was, I was just sharing some of my venting and frustrating, my frustration to [00:15:00] Cathy, and I’m gonna read a paragraph from your book that I feel like you wrote for me on this day in 2024, even though you probably wrote it like a year ago.
Todd: Okay. Um, If we feel hurt by their preference to spend time with friends or alone rather than with us, now I’ll just say, spend time with friends or at school or just being busy. If we feel hurt by their preference to be busy rather than with us, it’s easy to react passively or assume that they’re being disrespectful or owe us something.
Todd: Now I don’t think our, I, Never think any of my daughters are being disrespectful, but I do sometimes feel like, Hey, where’s the two way relationship here? Okay. You say, well, it’s important to create a friendly relationship with our girls and treat them more like peers as they mature. We shouldn’t expect a friendship where they owe us.
Todd: their time, or a certain level of interaction typically found with adults. And I just want to say, guilty is charged. And as we dive deeper, and we’re gonna talk a few more, talk [00:16:00] about a few more quotes in your book, but, Um, and, one thing you said to me on the ride home from McDonald’s is, You said, Todd, you’re not that used to rejection.
Todd: And now we’re getting into the deeper Depth Secrets of Todd Adams. One is, of course, I’ve been rejected by people, by organizations, by friends, by playing sports, like, just, you know. You haven’t been rejected,
Cathy: though, in the way that
Todd: a typical person has been rejected. Not as much. Yeah. Things have Like,
Cathy: I, I have, and again, it’s not all about romantic relationships, but I started, and I’m putting this in air quotes, dating people when 12 years old.
Cathy: Right. And every year from then on out, there’d be one or two people that I’d either date, or you know, go on dates with, or whatever, and then had a pretty serious relationship when I was 16, 17, had, you know what I mean, like, I had been, like, had my heart broken or broken other people’s hearts for probably a decade, and you didn’t even, you’ve had that experience in your life once.
Cathy: And [00:17:00] so now, not everything is romantic, but that’s a big learning experience in the teenage years of like, oh, this person likes me or they don’t like me or they broke my heart or, or friendship breakups. You had the same best friends all through high school. Then you went to college with the same best friends.
Cathy: So you didn’t get that whole, like, I got to start over. Nobody knows who I am. Sure. Now, this isn’t a problem per se in life. I don’t find this to be an issue. I find you to be a very lucky person. Yeah. Blessed. The only time that it’s going to rear its head where is when you’re like, well, why? When there’s a perception
Todd: of rejection.
Cathy: Correct. And I’m like, wow, you, you haven’t, you haven’t worked this muscle very well. Yeah. It’s
Todd: atrophy. It’s very atrophied. If it’s ever been built up at all, to be quite honest with you.
Cathy: Right. Right. And, and, you know, when it, when it gets mixed up with parenting, it gets, it gets weird.
Todd: Yeah, a little weird, messy, weird.
Todd: It gets
Cathy: messy or, or harder to define what comes from where. But I think that, um, I don’t even view when my [00:18:00] children are busy as rejection though, even though I know I said that to you because you were, you view it as rejection. Um, I, I think, and again, I’m, I could be wrong here, but I’m going to generalize and say.
Cathy: Because I have been more groomed by society and culture and by what I’ve done with my life to be a caregiver, um, not only as a mom, but as a social worker where my job is to love you, how do I love you? How do I support you? There are, there are experiences and relationships I have where I’m not expecting anything back.
Cathy: That I know that,
Todd: And this would be the definition of a one way connection, which was my next question. So what is a one way connection?
Cathy: One way connection is making sure there are certain people in your life, and I think the number one on this list would be our children, that, um, Our goal in relationship with them is less about what am I going to get from you and more about how am I going to give to you to [00:19:00] ensure that you have the stability and the support necessary to make it through your life.
Cathy: That my role in your life is not to be your best friend. Now there are times when I will get that back from you in ways because, you know, we do spend time together and I do feel that love and that connection and we are friends in many ways. And I, that’s why everything’s paradoxical, right? Because even though I view one way connection in parenting is very typical, I also, I’m not saying it’s always like that.
Cathy: I mean, I would say that that’s a smaller percentage than the other, which is, you know, a more reciprocal relationship. But I think you, when you think about connection, when I think about connection, I think about how can I tap into this person so they know I’m here, okay? It’s not how can I get something back.
Cathy: I think sometimes when you want connection, you want to play UNO, play UNO with me, go come on a car ride with me, talk to me, make me feel good about our [00:20:00] connection instead of how do I just support you and leave myself out of it. Right. I don’t, and again, if this is all you’ve ever had with your kids, that’s, that’s no bueno.
Cathy: Like, we want to make sure that we do have a relationship with our kids where they know us and see us. But there are times, like junior year in high school, maybe when they get to college, maybe when they’re in fifth grade, it happens at different times, where they’re, they’re pulling away from us. When they get their first romantic partner.
Cathy: Correct. When they’re in love. And not because they don’t love us, but because they need more space. You know, and I don’t even read into, you know, people are like, and because of the Oedipal complex and the, I don’t care about all that. I’m like, I don’t need the, the theory behind it. I’m just trying to be really real with it.
Cathy: They need more space. And what I have, especially because this is our third. I said, haven’t you seen this come around? Like we’ve watched, you [00:21:00] know, I remember when my daughter, um, my, my first daughter, poor girl, her junior year it was COVID. So she was forced to be with us so much. But once she got to college, adios, like she was, so invested in her friends and so in love with where she was.
Cathy: And so she was gone for a long period of time. But what we’ve seen with all of my girls now is they come back around, but in a new way, almost as a different person, you know, like almost as a fuller, more mature person, but you have to let them go for them to do that. Now, when I say let them go, I’m still doing things to make sure they know I’m here.
Cathy: I’m not bailing out and saying, well, good luck, good riddance. I’m still writing the notes, sending the texts, but I don’t need it. So does that feel,
Todd: does that make sense? It does. And would you share a few ways, um, that you do one way connections with our kids?
Cathy: Yes. And
Todd: I’m thinking more about what you [00:22:00] text and like the small things.
Todd: things that you do throughout the day to make sure they know that you’re still thinking about them without needing anything left. Well, like
Cathy: this morning, you know, my daughter, when she, in the morning, she has a very busy, loud life. So in the morning, she likes to come downstairs, read her book, and have it be super quiet.
Cathy: Doesn’t that make sense, everybody? And I think sometimes Todd’s like, but that’s when we talk. And it’s like, no, no, it’s not. That’s when she has quiet.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: So this morning I came down, Um, at like 6. 30 and I said, I’m still waking up and I’m still not, you know, a hundred percent. I said, I just wanted to come down and say, have a good day.
Cathy: I love you and, um, and I’ll see you later. And she just came over and gave me a hug and that was it.
Todd: Yup.
Cathy: Done, right? I don’t need anything. I’m not like, do you got a test today? What do you got? Yeah, like I’m not trying to, I’m just trying to say, okay, um, I send her throughout the day probably, and I don’t go overboard, one or two pictures, sometimes a meme, something that reminded me of her.
Cathy: Um, maybe an old picture pops up on my phone as her as a [00:23:00] baby. And I’ll send it to her, uh, maybe I’ll say something like, Hey, um, you know, guess what so and so told me, blah, blah, blah. Like, and I don’t need a response. Right. She’ll sometimes give me a thumbs up, but my goal is not, let me throw something back, let me throw something out at you so you give me something back.
Cathy: It’s just me reminding her I’m here. And I’m doing it because I want to. Um, you know. Last week when I was sick,
Cathy: I couldn’t do that with people. Like, I couldn’t text them back. And it was very, very hard for me. It was very hard to not interact in that way with people I love. That feels very cut off to me. And, you know, I don’t That’s when I feel more alone and, you know, and, and, and I just struggled with that.
Todd: Brain starts messing with you.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: So, um, the [00:24:00] other thing I do is I put up a shower curtain in her bathroom that was for Christmas. Um, it has trees on it and I knew she’d like it. Um, it was like four bucks, you know, it’s not like an expensive thing to do. And then we plugged a Christmas tree in the bathroom. So when she gets up every morning, I heard her and JC last night getting ready for bed.
Cathy: My oldest is home. And they were like, this bathroom is where I want to spend all my time because I cleaned it a little bit yesterday. Sorry, everybody, my, sometimes my esophagus spasms, um, and, um, they, and it’s just, that’s just how I’m loving you. I’m going to put up a, a new shower curtain and sometimes she says things and sometimes she doesn’t.
Cathy: I’m doing it. I’m doing little things, um, to remind you that I’m here and that you’re not alone and that the, and it’s not even about me. Us. This is your home. There’s comfort here. There’s security here. [00:25:00] Um, and then, you know, there’s a part of the book that, that’s important, is that what do I expect back?
Cathy: Cause it may sound like I’m just being completely like, whatever you need. I expect her to let us know where she’s going when she’s going somewhere. I expect her to follow through with what she said she’s going to get done. I expect her to be on time if she’s out with her friends. Like we have boundaries and structure in this home.
Cathy: It’s not that there’s no expectation at all, but the girl works her tail off. And, um, and I see that. And I know that for her, what she needs more is a soothing element at home. Um, our kids are different. And, you know, you may have a kid who needs something different at home.
Todd: Yeah. Um, page 134 you say, why doesn’t my daughter ta two questions that you get from a lot of moms.
Todd: Or maybe parents. Why doesn’t my daughter talk to me? Which is about things, which is kinda, I’ve asked myself, like, how come she wants to read a book instead of, [00:26:00] tell me about her school day, or ask me about my life, or whatever. How boring. Uh, and the other question is, how do I get my daughter to share? And, um, one thing that you say is, um, we talk a little bit about bids for connections and that it’s not a reciprocal relationship.
Todd: But you say, imagine your daughter when she was younger falling off the swing after she was told. So this is the section in that book where you say, see my, see my side. When I tell you a story, imagine your daughter when she was younger, falling off the swing and she was told not to swing. Okay. So think of your three year old kid.
Todd: And then once, uh, and then she falls off and she hurts herself, you know, First thing I might say is, hey, I told you not to do that, right? And you say once they’re in a better state, you can talk about what’s expected or how they could have changed, could have done things differently, and [00:27:00] this is just as true for older girls.
Todd: So, um, when are But
Cathy: the most important part of that is you don’t say, I told you so.
Todd: Exactly.
Cathy: You, you say in that moment when they fall off, that doesn’t do any, any good. It doesn’t help. They don’t learn anything from you. I actually say in the book, eliminate that phrase altogether. I told you so does not help, but that, you know, when your kid is swinging and they fall off, you’re not going to walk over and stand over them and go, well, I told you so.
Cathy: You’re going to make sure they’re okay and help them stand up and give them a hug. And it’s the same thing with older girls. And
Todd: the thing is, I think our expectations of older human beings, I think one is we forget how old they are, right? This kid’s 17 has never had any experience. They’ve heard words from us about the wisdom that we’ve bestowed, but they really don’t learn until they go through it.
Todd: Um, or at least in my judgment, going through something is a lot harder. It creates a lot more learning opportunities [00:28:00] as opposed to being told how to keep yourself safe. And so when that happens, it becomes, uh, I forget like, Oh, this kid has never ever experienced anything like this. And I think when they’re three, you’re like, well, they’re three, but when they’re 15 or 13 or 19, you’d be like, you should know better by now.
Todd: And the answer is maybe they shouldn’t.
Cathy: Dude, I am 53. And there are things that I go, what did I do? What I know not to do that. I know not to say that. I know not to drive that way. I know not to stay up all night. I know. And, and I do it sometimes. And, and what I need in those moments is not someone to say, oh, it’s fine.
Cathy: Do it over and over again. But, oh yeah, I get it. I, aren’t we, aren’t we nuts sometimes the way that we like override our voices and having a sense of like compassion and understanding for that experience. Cause. Our kids usually come back and [00:29:00] say, I knew I shouldn’t have done that or, um, I wish I wouldn’t have done that or I didn’t know I shouldn’t have done that.
Cathy: And for us to be able to say, yeah, isn’t it great the way we learn these, you know, these things. And, you know, having a conversation about the learning process rather than the scolding and shaming process.
Todd: And why do we as parents like to scold and shame?
Cathy: Because we’re afraid. And because we, um, Don’t have a perspective on our kids that is correct.
Cathy: We view them through our own lens, which is we’ve had all these experiences, so we think our kids have had all these experiences. It’s like we can’t jump in, you know, in my, in the book I talk about the first, number one is wider perspective on the world, but number two is see your kids perspective is understand where they are in learning and that when we say things to them, like, how could you do that?
Cathy: Or why would you say that? Or. You’re an idiot. Why would you do that? They don’t know yet. And so we, we view [00:30:00] them through the shaming lens that we view ourselves. The more judgmental we are of ourselves, the more judgmental we’re going to be of our kids.
Todd: So that goes to self compassion, self forgiveness, self acceptance.
Cathy: Exactly. Exact same thing. And let me say one more thing about kids coming back around. And I know Todd has witnessed this and been a part of it. Sometimes, like, My girls have been going through really busy times where, you know, they have one thing after another or they’re traveling or they have finals or whatever.
Cathy: And a week will go by where sure, maybe we talk or text, but there’s not a lot of deep conversation. And then they’ll have a moment like the week before I got sick. I remember Skylar said, Mom, I have done so many things that you know nothing about. Like she’s like, I feel like we’re like living two very different lives.
Cathy: I’m like, I know. And I said, and when things slow down, I want to hear all of them.
Yeah.
Cathy: Not, yeah, why don’t I know? You know, not a guilt, shame and fear. And then my other daughter, Cameron, who, Sometimes she’ll go, she’ll call me and she’ll say, okay, I [00:31:00] want to show you my Finsta pictures from the last week and show you all these things I did because I didn’t tell you about
Todd: Finsta picture is?
Cathy: Um, so a Finsta account is the, their second account, like their hidden account. It’s the account that only their best friends follow. So they can post more pictures of them, like if they’re in college drinking or whatever. Um, and, So I don’t follow her Finsta, you know. You’re not allowed to, right? No. Yeah.
Cathy: But she’ll show me, she’ll screen grab all the pictures and show me or show me when she comes home so she can show me what she’s doing and who her friends are and point things out. So sometimes they’re, a week will go by where you’ll be like, oh, or two weeks or whatever. Where you’re like, I have no idea what’s going on.
Cathy: But sometimes they come back and catch you up and they’ll catch you up if they know you’re open to it, if you’re not gonna say where have you been, if you’re not going to judge them for being busy. If they feel guilty at all or that you need something from them, like another thing Todd does [00:32:00] that I love about him because it’s his, it’s
Todd: I like where this story’s going.
Todd: It’s
Cathy: like a child part of him. But so Todd, when he wants to do something with the family, he gets super serious about it and he’ll be like, we are going to play a game. We’re going to play this game at four sharp. The chairs are going to be set up this way. You’re going to sit here. I’m going to sit here.
Cathy: We’re all going to grab a drink and he gets super focused on how it’s going to be. Last night he’s like, tonight we’re watching a movie and we’re all going to watch it at this time. And all of us now, because we know what Todd does, we’re like, relax, don’t put so many parameters around it. Let’s just decide to watch a movie and let it kind of evolve.
Cathy: We’ll all lay down and pick our seats in the moment. Maybe it’s at 7, maybe it’s at 7 20. And same with, we’ll play a game. And Todd gets so serious about the game. You know, like he wants people to pay attention. And I love that about him. And we all have fun with him about that. We don’t find it to be a flaw.[00:33:00]
Cathy: But just for your own insides of your stress around it, like let go a little bit. Like let it. Let people join us with the movie rather than forcing them to watch the movie.
Todd: Makes sense. Um, for some reason you talked about playing games, so I just feel the need to
Cathy: play Backstreet Boys. Quit playing games with my heart.
Todd: No. Oh. Um, for the, for the Parks and Rex people, um, Adam Scott is, uh, plays Ben. Ben, what’s his last name?
Um, Ben.
Todd: Ben something.
Ben.
Todd: Uh, and he and I kind of have a similar spirit, let’s say. So he created a game, I think, when he was unemployed, and this is how he presents it to Leslie Knope. So here we go with Ben.
And I’ve been cooking up something pretty big.
Cathy: The last time he was in between jobs, he got deep into claymation. So this should be different, [00:34:00] hopefully.
Presenting the Cones of Dunshire, a brand new gaming experience. 8 to 12 players, two wizards, a maverick, the Arbiter, two warriors, a corporal, and a ledgerman.
Now the ledgerman just keeps score, and he wears this hat. Oh boy. Now the object is to accumulate cones. Four cones wins, but in order to get a cone, you have to build a civilization. The other amazing thing is the challenge play. Actually, let me tell you more about the trivia cards because you’re going to need to know about roadblocks first.
No, never mind. The thing about the challenge play is that it’s basically the game in reverse. Then you roll three dice to see how many dice you roll with. Oh, 16. Perfect. Lots of choices. Okay, each
Todd: turn goes roll. You roll three dice to see how many dice you roll.
Cathy: 16. Lots of choices.
Todd: I want to play Codes of Dunshire so bad.
Cathy: Ben Wyatt. We have both had a brain fart. Ben Wyatt. Yes. So Konza Dunshire is, Todd has this, these [00:35:00] games he likes to play and somehow he’s taught the girls these games like they play them. You’re
Todd: good at these games too. I am
Cathy: not. You’re good at it. I don’t
Todd: like them. You’re good at Desert Spark. I do not like them.
Todd: Um, but I do not like Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like them, Sam I am. He gets very serious and if people are talking or having a good time, he’s like, come on, it’s your turn. The goal is to win the game. No. And everybody’s having. Fun and laughing. That’s a problem. I actually sent you a Tik Tok about that the other day.
Todd: I saw that. That’s hilarious. I loved it. Um, okay. So I want to pivot if you’re okay. Sure. Um, you also have a section in the, in the same section called your constant focus. This is from a daughter’s point of view. Your constant focus on how I look makes me worry about it even more. Um, and what I love about your book is sometimes you bring in other experts or friends of ours that have something wonderful to share.
Todd: And I, I just thought that this was a super friendly, uh, piece. And I’m happy to read it unless you feel like it, you [00:36:00] can do better. But when your daughter goes out, uh, wearing something that makes you, um, I don’t know, breathe a little bit less easily because it’s a little more revealing than when back in the nineties, when we were growing up.
Todd: And, um, uh, you put an, a clip in your book about what Michelle Icard, I think Icard, yeah, Icard. put in her book about how you deal with that.
Cathy: Actually, she didn’t put that in her book. She, I heard her say it. Oh, interesting. And so I emailed her and said, will you write that out for me and put that, so I can use that in my book and I’ll give you full, uh, credit.
Cathy: I think she, someone was interviewing her and, um, I heard her say this and I thought, oh, it’s so good what she said. So basically just to summarize, I just put it in the chat
Todd: if you want to read it.
Cathy: Went a bunch of different places. Um, is that, If your children are starting to dress in a way, and obviously this book is about girls, so where you’re like, wow, that’s a really adult way to dress.[00:37:00]
Cathy: And especially around things like Halloween or, you know, things where you’re like, whoa, this is, this is what Michelle said. So you can read it.
Todd: Um, I realized I did a voice dictate, so hold on a second. And
Cathy: when you said you put something in the chat, why would you? That
Todd: was for you, for you to read it for the audience, but you’re not going to be able to do it.
Todd: So, um.
Cathy: Oh yeah, I found it. Okay. Okay. I got it.
Todd: You got it?
Cathy: So it says, Michelle said, instead of saying you need to change into something less sexy before you go out, um, try something like, wow, you look great. You look so great. You’re probably going to get a lot of attention. Some nice, maybe some uncomfortable.
Cathy: If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, do you have a plan for how you’ll react? Does the plan change if it’s somebody your age or somebody older or someone in a position of authority? So. The, the goal is, like, I don’t, I can’t think of a time, and now I’m not Michelle anymore, I’m speaking for myself, that I’ve ever said to my girls, you can’t wear that.
Cathy: Um, I [00:38:00] think I’ve had some moments of, like, I remember the first time when my oldest was going to homecoming and I saw what dresses were being worn and sold. I was like, whoa. Um, but I’m used to that now. Like now I’m around girls all the time. So the thing I, the thing I say to the girls all the time. Is, is this you?
Cathy: Are you being you? Um, does this feel comfortable to you? Does this feel like, like some, you know, do you feel good? Um, and they have many different versions of clothes that feel good. Some are sweatpants. Some are really small dresses. Some are, you know, bikinis and some are, you know, really oversized Billie Eilish kind of clothes.
Cathy: Um, and the goal is, you know. In the big picture is, is you. How do you want to express yourself in the world? Cause that’s not for me to dictate. What Michelle explains here though, is understand that there is a perception, um, about you in the world by what you [00:39:00] wear. And so there are certain experiences like, of course, don’t go to a job interview in oversized clothing and you didn’t do your hair because then they’re going to think you’re not an organized person.
Cathy: But could you just, you know, go on a road trip dressed like that? Of course. You know what I mean? It’s comfortable. Um, you know, you start to kind of have the conversations around, this is something that could happen, um, and this is something I want you to be aware of. And like Michelle said, what’s your plan for this?
Todd: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So. That’s wonderful. Um, is there anything specific that you wanted to talk about? Because I’ve been kind of running it, so I just wanted to check in with you. No,
Cathy: I just kind of let you run this. I’m, I’m running out of steam a little bit.
Todd: That’s fine. Um, I want to just, uh, remind everybody that this conference is coming up.
Todd: I have a really kind of good tagline that came from one of our listeners and it is ZenCon 25. It’s our last one. So, this is your last chance, everybody. The conference for conversations and connections with a [00:40:00] concert to boot. A lot of cons. Oh, I like it. I don’t remember who gave this to us, but it’s pretty good.
Todd: Um, so, it’s about a month away. And we just want to, I personally want to fill the room. Um. And I want to get a much more balanced, uh, genders. Uh, there’s usually a lot of females in the room. And this year I want to try to get as many guys and dads in that room. And it’s not just about daughters. We have John Duffy talking about sons.
Todd: We have Dr. Alexander Solomon talking about how to be healthy, be in healthy conflict with, uh, the people that you love. Um, The guy from Toad, Glenn Phillips from Toad the Wetsprocket is going to play for us on Friday night. And we have a whole pre conference workshop for Team Zen and for men. And a pre conference workshop with the sisters
Cathy: around how to get calm, um, be mindful, find, you know, live your life the way you want
Todd: to.
Todd: So if you’re interested, just scroll. Uh, in the show notes of this podcast and click on, uh, the conference link. If money is [00:41:00] an issue, please email me and we’ll figure something out to get you there because we want to get as many people in that room as possible.
Cathy: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say is like, go ahead and if you can easily buy your tickets, go ahead.
Cathy: And if you get two tickets, it is definitely a discount. But if you’re like, there’s four of you and you’re trying to figure out costs or there’s a group, just email Todd because we’ll figure it out. Like, don’t, don’t stress. This is our last one. We just want you to come and of course, you know, we’re paying for this.
Cathy: So we, we want to make sure that, you know, we can pay for it. Um, but at the same time, we don’t want you to be like, well, I’d be there only if, you know, just, we’ll
Todd: figure it out. Um, and last but not least, once again, I’m holding up Cathy’s amazing book, Restoring Our Girls, how real conversation, conversations shape our daughter’s lives, help them with teen challenges and remind them that they matter, uh, get your copy.
Todd: Great. Uh, it’s still time to get it for a holiday gift. Yeah,
Cathy: they show, and it’s so weird, uh, one more thing about that, I’ve gotten a lot of emails saying some people got their books right on time, which was last Tuesday. Some people are still waiting for their [00:42:00] books. Some people it’s saying January 5th or something.
Cathy: I don’t know. Like, people have been like, why? I don’t know. The, the distributors, it’s out of my hands, um, with, if it’s with Amazon, I mean, maybe you could cancel it and then reorder it and see if it comes faster, because some people have it. Um, but I wish I had a better answer for you, uh, you know, for those who are waiting.
Cathy: I’m sorry. I don’t, I don’t know why that’s happening.
Todd: Yeah. What are you going to do? What
Cathy: are you going to
Todd: do? Um, so with that, I just want to say thanks everybody for listening. Uh, we got one more podcast before the new year, I think. I don’t know. I don’t have my calendar in front of me, but just thank you so much.
Todd: Happy holidays and keep trucking.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty [00:43:00] pleasant.
