[00:00:00]
Todd: Hi everybody, uh, this is Todd Adams and with Zen Parenting Radio. This is ZenTalk number, I have no idea, but uh, I don’t either. I’d say it’s 190. I have no idea. Um, and we’re so excited because we have some special guests. Usually it’s just Cathy and I answering questions. Um, but we’re going to introduce three amazing younger folks from Hinsdale Central High School.
Todd: Uh, we have Rami. If you’re, if you’re watching this, some people might be listening. But there’s three amazing teenagers that are in the same room and they’re on our zoom screen here. And we got Rami on the right. We got Zara in the middle and we got Molly on the left and they’re all seniors. And we are going to talk to them about a program that I don’t know if they started or they continue.
Todd: They started it. They started it. Um, but first. Cathy, why don’t [00:01:00] you explain how you met these fine folks or this organization?
Cathy: I was told about them, let’s see, probably a while ago, months ago, way before I met them at the NAMI walk. My friend Jess, I think had been working with NAMI or talking with them, maybe about their website.
Cathy: Something to that effect. And she was telling me what they were doing and that they were organizing to focus on making sure that other students had access to resources when it came to mental health and that they were somewhat taking it into their own hands in the best way because they felt like They, you know, they understood each other better than sometimes parents and professionals can understand.
Cathy: And so I was able to meet them at the NAMI Walk. Alexa, who’s the executive director, walked over and introduced me to them. And, um, I just thought what they were doing was really innovative and very important. Um, and I know I remember talking with them and them saying that they kind of hope to continue [00:02:00] this.
Cathy: Obviously that it continues in high school, but they hope to, you know, do the same thing when they’re in college. And so I thought it would be a good opportunity for us and the parents who are listening to hear, you know, why, you know, what they’re doing, the options that they’ve had, the opportunities that they’ve had.
Cathy: You know, they’re giving to other students, um, so that’s why they’re here.
Todd: What I think the idea is, because there’s people that will be listening to this from all over the country and they’re obviously not going to be able to use the resources from Hinsdale, but perhaps somebody might be listening and you guys are modeling something that can be very easily replicated.
Todd: So let’s start here. Um, did one of the three of you guys start this or did you all start it together? And I’ll ask, uh, Zara to answer that question.
Zara: Um, so we started it all together.
Todd: Okay, and how long ago did you start this?
Zara: About, um, like two years.
Rami: Yeah, I think we’ve been working on it.
Zara: We’ve been working on it for like two years, but it like released like a year and a [00:03:00] half ago.
Todd: Okay, so why don’t you explain to those who have never heard of Chase Light what it is, why you started it, and what you do.
Zara: Okay, so Chase Light stands for Confidential Health and Support Education.
Molly: I was wondering.
Zara: It’s an organization and basically our main goal is really just to bring kids together and build community.
Zara: We feel that we kind of modeled Our goal off of like Alcohol Anonymous, which where they bring everyone together and they discuss and that’s something we really wanted to do because we felt that kids were best able to understand kids and they were best able to feel how each kid is feeling. So we wanted to start building a community.
Zara: And to do that, we also wanted to provide kids resources in case they did already have mental health conditions. So we also have a website. It goes on top of this. Um, on the website we have resources, we have like a parent guide, we have a know your rights page, and we have like a mindfulness page, and basically we’re like educating kids [00:04:00] on what they can do with mental health, on what mental health is, but our main thing is really just to like build community, so we host monthly events to do that.
Cathy: And you guys, was there an inciting incident? Like, was there something that happened or something that happened again and again, that made you recognize that this was needed in your school specifically? Like, you know, how did it even, what did it even come out of?
Rami: I think it was just in like a collection of like, various events that maybe just like us noticing our peers, our friends, people around us, our classmates, just struggling.
Rami: Not really one like specific thing, but just like the general like school day and just noticing like people being tired. And it’s a really competitive environment, especially with our school, and I’m sure other schools can relate. But we wanted it to be where like we, we have a big a place where everyone can come together and really talk about their feelings without having to worry about the stigma surrounding mental [00:05:00] health.
Rami: So yeah, I think we just really wanted it to be like free and open for everyone.
Todd: Mm hmm. So, uh, Mali, so it sounds like you guys have a website which has a lot of resources. I actually scanned it before I got on, but it also, what Rami just said, it’s a community builder. So Mali, can you help us understand, I heard monthly events, like what is it?
Todd: What type of events? What do you guys do?
Molly: Um, so we have events that will just like anyone can really attend and they help bring people from our school together and at these events we talk about different things that have to do with, they’re always like mental health related but helps like open the conversation up a little bit and like help people get more comfortable with talking about the topic and like What different people can like struggle with but also like how to deal with the problems like and, um, we’ve had, we have an upcoming event actually this weekend, but, um, [00:06:00] it’s card making for local pediatrics hospital like, and they’re really also just like a community building, so like we’ll talk about different aspects of mental health, like, while helping people, but we’ve had, um, Like the Namiwok, the Namiwok was one of our events to attend.
Molly: And we’ve also hosted like events like in our own like houses. Like we had, um, a movie night, a teen girls movie night where we got a group of girls together and they watched a movie and we did mental health, um, trivia questions just to like help. Learn about it. Yeah, then at that
Zara: event, we also had Alexa from NAMI speak at it.
Zara: So what we try to do with our events is like bring kids together who wouldn’t normally Come together because one of the main things we really wanted to focus on was making it like a truly inclusive environment like we didn’t want our events to be our friends or just be like the [00:07:00] people that we talk to on a daily basis because not only would that not be like that beneficial to the people there but Like also it would like We wanted to risk like people feeling left out because that was so not what we were aiming for So we really just try to bring kids together and we the event is not focused on mental health completely But that is a factor that we bring into it
Todd: So it’s not like you guys are all sitting in a circle talking about your mental health issues.
Todd: It’s like, let’s all come together, reduce the stigma a little bit, bring some attention to the website and some of the other things you’re doing. So is that more in line of what you’re doing?
Molly: So,
Todd: um, I know it’s hard to start anything and you guys just kind of started. Um, can you give us an idea of numbers?
Todd: Is it like six of you that show up? Is it 20 of you? Is it a hundred of you that show up at a typical event? And let’s go over to Rami.
Rami: Um, so I think usually we’ve been having around 60 people show up to our events. Um, it obviously like varies from event to [00:08:00] event, like for example our NAMI walk, like the transportation it was hard to get by because it’s all the way in the city, we live in the suburbs, so maybe it was a little bit less, but definitely for our events in the suburbs and our local events we have more people show up.
Rami: Um, we want to definitely like expand, um, maybe like Get areas where more people can meet. Maybe like some, like our next event we’re planning, um, other than the Thanksgiving event, maybe like a park event. Like basketball, sports, um, just like a bigger thing. We want more people to show up. We want it to be like accessible for everyone.
Rami: We don’t want to just limit it.
Cathy: You guys, you know, again, I so appreciate that you did this and you took the time and you, you put something together and like you already said, you know, you figure students can understand what other students are going through. Um, but there is this piece that is obvious to me, which is that adults aren’t understanding.
Cathy: You know, there is this piece. It’s not about saying, you know, all adults don’t want to help. Of course they do, but there’s something that they’re missing or collectively [00:09:00] missing. And can you guys describe, and it could be each of you can explain in your own way, if you were to, you know, tell us, because again, there’s parents listening to this.
Cathy: What are, what are parents missing when it comes to the mental health of their teenagers today?
Molly: Um, I feel like, um, most parents sometimes, like, want, they want to help, obviously, so they want to see, like, they want to find an immediate solution. So instead of really listening to their kid, they could just be like, like, trying to find immediate solutions that will fix the problem, like, We have to put, like, screen time on your phone so you can only have it 10 minutes a day.
Molly: Like, you’re not going on social media, you’re not doing this, you’re not doing this. Like, I’m gonna fix this myself. Instead of listening to the kid and actually hearing what they’re really stressed about, and like, figuring out a way together, not to, like, compromise, but almost, like, make a mutual agreement about, like, how each person feels and then, like, [00:10:00] What would help with like, what is going on?
Zara: Yeah, and like, going off that, I think we all agree that like, parents want the best for their kids always. And I think that is what makes it such like a difficult situation. Because when a parent sees their kid struggling, like the only thing they want is to like, take that pain away from their kid. So I think that’s what leads to like, what Molly was saying, where we want to find a solution.
Zara: Like, go to therapy and it’s going to be fixed. And I think that I mean, society has changed so much since the time that, like, I mean, like, older generations lived in. So, like, we have things like social media now. The world has become, like, ultra competitive. And I think parents can understand this, but I think there’s a level, like, there’s a difference between understanding and, like, fully living in this, like, new competitive world.
Rami: Yeah, um, and I think our parent page can really touch on that because we really emphasize how, um, we want it where the parents are like, they focus on themselves and then they also listen to [00:11:00] their children. Um, and yeah, just like Zara mentioned, I think we really do live in a new world with, like, social media, um, comparing yourself with others, um, and it’s just something, like, we don’t, people don’t really think about how people pick the best moment of their life to share online, and that’s what you’re constantly seeing all day.
Rami: I think that’s, like, a big aspect of it, that, um, teenagers nowadays are dealing with, that our parents didn’t deal with in their youth. So, yeah.
Cathy: Yeah, I agree with that. And I’m sure all of you know this and it’s been told to you a number of times, but you know, I, I work with parents and they’re, they, to your point, they do want to help you, but their discomfort with your discomfort is what sometimes causes that problem, which is they, they are so uncomfortable that you may not be happy or depressed or anxious that.
Cathy: They will then overcompensate and make it a problem solving thing. And I think a lot of the teens that I’ve worked with and a lot of my college students, they eventually just say to their parents, I’m fine. [00:12:00] Even if they’re not, because they’re like, I’m watching my own parents spin and I’m feeling worse, like almost like I have to take care of them.
Cathy: And that’s what I, you know, this whole, sometimes when, you know, when you guys are sharing with us, you just wish that adults could just listen. And. That takes, and I’m saying this is something I’m helping parents with because they need to work on it. They have to be able to regulate themselves so they can sit and hear, you know, but it’s this like they, they want to, like you said, completely jump into action instead of actually have the space to hear why you’re in pain, you know?
Cathy: So do you guys hear that from friends or have you had that experience?
Molly: Definitely.
Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. So with that said. Anxiety, depression. Obviously, these are things that I hear, you know, all the time, obviously. And again, that can look different depending on the kid. For some, it becomes, anxiety is kind of [00:13:00] more of a manic thing.
Cathy: And for some, it’s, it’s a really deflating things where, where they get frozen. Have you found that it’s, you know, with some of the people who are coming to your, your groups or, you know, your meetings that it’s extending beyond anxiety and depression? Are there other things that you’re hearing about?
Rami: Um, I think currently, like, those are the two biggest things that we’re facing, but I think we also do talk about other things like, um, alcohol, like substance abuse.
Rami: I think that’s something that we’re really, yeah, that was a really good point because I think like, um, Especially in high school, like nowadays, teenagers really rely on substances and things like this. I think it’s just like an increasing issue. Um, I think honestly, I think this was also an issue like when our parents were younger, and then there was like a phase when it got better, but now maybe it’s like coming back.
Rami: Um, that’s something we’re focusing on, something we want to start talking more about and shed light on. Yeah.
Cathy: Go ahead, Zara.
Zara: I also think, like, [00:14:00] not only are we seeing, like, a large, like, number of, like, anxiety and depression, but I think a really popular thing is for kids to, like, Be in like denial about it.
Zara: So it’s not like we’re seeing like anxiety. We’re more so seeing a kid being like, I don’t have anxiety. Like I’m just stressed or I don’t have this. I’m just stressed because there is such a big stigma that it’s almost like, especially in our community, like people never want to admit that something’s wrong with them.
Zara: That almost causes like more problems because when you don’t even admit that something’s going on, like you don’t have anything you need to like. Fix it and to go forward. And I think that’s something we see a lot is so many kids in this town like don’t believe it’s okay to struggle and they think that they’re struggling something’s wrong with them.
Zara: And that’s one of the main things that we really are seeing that we really want to like come back because that can like prevent all growth from occurring.
Todd: Um, what I love about this is that it seems like you are all coming together, uh, in an effort to say, it’s okay to ask for help. [00:15:00] Which is amazing because grown ups have a hard time, adults have a hard time asking for help, much less kids.
Todd: Um, how do you get the word out about the organization? Did you approach the school and were they supportive or is this completely outside the school system? Uh, any of the three of you guys can respond to that.
Rami: Um, so we actually made it a point to have it outside the school system. We didn’t want to include like school administration at all because Like, we know that, um, I mean, while there’s nothing wrong with school administration, of course, um, we wanted it to be something separate because, like, school, like, we, we have our own, they have their own resources, we, like, they have counselors, social workers, etc.
Rami: So, but we want it to be, like, a by students, for students model. We wanted it to, like, we, like, that was our approach. That’s what we wanted to focus on.
Zara: And then also, like, at our school. We have so many great resources, but I think there’s something about like a school therapist that like really turns kids away.
Zara: Like, like if you like, [00:16:00] maybe the thing for us is like, okay, our counseling hall is in like the main common area. So if a kid walks in it, Everyone’s going to see or maybe it’s the fact that like if you start seeing a counselor at school They send a slip like saying like Zara Latif to counseling that your teacher will then read out loud So everyone will know so I think something we really found at school.
Zara: They try so Incredibly hard, but a lot of times they really push students away from them. And I know like I mean, me personally, and like, I think a lot of my friends would say, like, they would never feel like it’s okay to talk to a school therapist, which is another issue. But I think that, so we really, like Ravi was saying, thought like this had to be like completely separated at the beginning.
Zara: But once we started going forward, we did get asked by teachers at our school if they could use ChaseLight in the curriculum. So it started completely out of the school, but it’s slowly like started to be incorporated. Incorporated into like SEL, which [00:17:00] in our school is like social emotional learning. So it started outside, but it’s slowly like drifted into the school.
Cathy: And the teachers are basically what they’re asking is because can we make other kids aware of this? Can I help you talk about this? Is that what they’re saying?
Molly: Yeah, well, specifically it was our gym teachers who wanted to incorporate, because in the freshman year gym class, there’s like a SEL training for all freshman kids, and, um, like we had it when we were freshmen, it goes through each freshman class, so they were wondering if they could, um, incorporate it into like the social emotional learning for freshmen.
Rami: Yeah, like as a resource.
Molly: Yeah.
Todd: Um, Carney asked, first of all, she says you guys are all amazing, which I agree with. And she says, I’m curious how many students attend the school. So how many kids go to Hinsdale Central, give or take?
Zara: 4,
Todd: 000. 4, 000. And this may be, um, a tough question to answer. Is You know, there’s like a coolness [00:18:00] factor.
Todd: Like if you’re on the football team, that’s really cool. You guys are coming together about mental health. Is there a stigma against even you guys starting this? Have you felt that? Or have you felt pretty much support from anybody who happens to get in front of this?
Zara: I mean, I would say we have a lot of amazing friends.
Zara: So I think when we started it, we had so many people like looking to support us. So like our first event, like when all of your friends come, and we also, so I think we haven’t mentioned this, but we do have a board of students. So we have six students on the board. And one thing that was really important to us was that our board was like a diverse group of people.
Zara: ’cause we didn’t wanna track the same people into the. into like our meetings, we wanted so many different types of people. So that was something we really considered making this board. And I think due to the fact that we have so many different people on our board, and then us three, we all have different friends.
Zara: So at such a big school, when you start having each kid bring like eight people, the numbers get really [00:19:00] big really fast. And when you start having meetings of 30 kids, the next meeting still bring their friends. So I think for us, we were fortunate to have Such a great community of friends, but I definitely think that like there is a proportion of kids at our school who would be like, I would never go to that event.
Zara: Like, I would never like be seen in one of those events. So I think that like, we have a good group of people, but there’s definitely people we haven’t been able to reach.
Todd: Well, and I’m just going to share just for fun. Um, The board and when I, I’m just so used to seeing old people on boards. I know. And then you see these sweet, like 18 year old kids.
Todd: And 18 year old young adults. Sorry, young adults. And I just think it’s awesome. So I’m just really inspired by what you guys are doing. What were you going to say? I
Cathy: was going to ask, you know, since it’s the three of you here, um, I want to ask each of you personally, if you wouldn’t mind, um, why did you have a comfort level with doing this?
Cathy: And I don’t mean just for your school, but [00:20:00] personally, how did you know that How did you have a lesson stigma, you know, internalize? Like, it sounds like you were able to talk about it and you recognize this. So can you guys tell maybe your story, each of you?
Zara: Okay, I can start. I mean, I think that. Um, I was so fortunate to grow up in a household where mental health was like never a bad thing.
Zara: It was never a bad thing to be stressed and it was never a bad thing to like not be okay all the time. So I think that going up in that environment I was like really exposed to this world of like helping people and I think my parents are also Both like doctors and they both help a ton of people not just like medically but they were the like My dad would always like help kids who would come over to house So I really grew up in this world where I was constantly seeing kids struggle and I was constantly seeing them Get help.
Zara: So I think for [00:21:00] me Like I was exposed to like the vast Like area of issues we have. But I was also like, was so fortunate to grow up in an environment where that was never an issue. So I didn’t really feel that stigma just because it was never something I was like raised in.
Molly: Yeah, for me, like, personally, I think, um, I never really necessarily like felt like I mean, I always, I’m a more private person, so it’s always like, sort of hard to me to open up to people and um, to like, get like, if I’m stressed like, I don’t necessarily like, go like, tell people like, but for me, um, it was like, junior year that really like, changed for me because I was always like, sort of like, embarrassed like, I have to be like doing good like I have to like I’m strong like if I like tell someone this like then they’ll look at me like I’m weak or something so I always felt that myself but then until junior year I got really stressed with like my workload and then I was like this won’t work [00:22:00] anymore just keeping it all into myself and then that’s when I had like my friends to support me like Zara was one of my she is one of my best friends and like she um helped me through it too so like you And then through that experience, I was like, well, there’s like definitely other people that were in my same boat.
Molly: And like, if they don’t have like a best friend that they can go to for like everything, like I wanted to, um, create this like organization that can also like introduce people to each other, to like make those connections to like, um, I don’t know, just like to help them go through like situations, like not alone.
Molly: Yeah. Just
Cathy: like you.
Rami: I think for me, um, I moved a lot and I moved to Hinsdale around, um, like right before freshman year. So it was really hard walking into a new high school, especially one that’s so big. Um, like it was hard walking into one that like, was like clicky, I guess. And like, I didn’t really have anyone to talk to in the, like, in the beginning.
Rami: But then like, [00:23:00] um, I mean, just like Molly, I’m a really private person. I don’t really like talking about my feelings. But then yeah, junior year came and then that’s when everything really hit. Especially, um, with like some specific classes, like studying with friends outside of school. I kind of built like more relationships.
Rami: And then especially now with Chase Light, I think I’m more comfortable talking about my feelings. Um, like for example, like during the NAMI walk, just like walking around Chicago, Jackson Park, like looking at the view and just talking about like my past, talking about my feelings. I just, I think it’s like a really freeing moment and I really want other people to experience that.
Todd: That’s wonderful. Um, Rami, you talk about, um, an unwillingness to feel your feelings or share your feelings. I, I identify with that. I grew up in a similar world that you did, and I’m just wondering if they say that boys are still young men are really stoic and really shut down and I don’t want you to answer from a macro standpoint, but instead like your experience, like, you know, obviously you’re sitting next to, [00:24:00] um, Female friends, and you probably have a bunch of guy friends too.
Todd: Do you see a difference in the vulnerability or the openness of women, young women versus young men?
Rami: Yeah, I think there’s definitely a difference. Um, I think the stigma is way more prominent in young men than it is for young women. Because like, I mean, young women really have like communities that they can go to and talk like with their friends openly and freely without really having to feel ashamed about their feelings.
Rami: Whereas for young men, we’re kind of, it’s all focused about like, Other things like being better, competition, uh, things like that. But I think nowadays it has really been getting better. Um, I think now it’s more okay to talk about your feelings. Especially like, I don’t know, for me, I’ve always been like free to talk about my feelings because like my parents were always open to that.
Rami: Um, just like Zara, like I grew up in like a doctor household and like healthcare and stuff. So my dad was always really open about mental health. Um, and then I would always talk to my cousins. I mean, I always have like a stable, like, Like support system, I [00:25:00] guess. I guess, um, many other boys don’t have that because they grew up in a household that’s more strict or more like old fashioned, you could say.
Rami: Um, but yeah, while I didn’t like fully experience that, I know it’s a very common thing that other young men experience.
Todd: And Molly and Zara, same question to you. Um, uh, what are your thoughts about if there’s any inherent differences in behavior or vulnerability between your friends who identify as female and your friends who identify as male?
Zara: Um, I mean, I think there’s like a very big difference personally. I, I think that like, I mean, I can take from experience. I think girls like often find like other friends and they get so comfortable on them. Like I can say that like with like my best friends, I have like no shame in like telling them things that I’m struggling with.
Zara: And I, you know, And like, even see like, through my guy friends, like, like, you can really see that they’re not like that with each other. Like, for example, like, I would go to Molly, like, one day if I had like, a really bad day and I did bad on my [00:26:00] test, and like, I would be like, I did so bad, this is a whole, like, I would like, fully like, open up and like, break down to her, and I think you really don’t see that amongst guys.
Zara: I think they’re way more likely to just like, What I see in my guy friends is they like shut down a lot when they have like a bad day. Instead of talking about their feelings like a lot of girls do, they’re kind of just like, yeah, it’s a bad day and they’ll like walk away and I think that’s like Something I really see and like the difference, like girls are way more open to like discussing and guys just like, I don’t want to talk about it.
Zara: I’m moving on. Like, let’s just continue on.
Todd: It’s so funny. Cause there’s a book written by, um, a psychologist. Her name is Terry real. And the name of the book is, I don’t want to talk about it. And it’s about men. Molly, same question to you.
Molly: Um, well, I also think most of the problem is like guys always like to be tough and they tough means like no problems really like they can do anything like I’m so tough I can handle anything like I can play all these sports and do all this stuff and I’m like, they like to be like, yeah, I’m [00:27:00] unbreakable like they like to put on that like, persona of like, I don’t know, they can do anything.
Molly: And so like, they think it’s like they have a problem. They’re not like, oh, let me go to talk to like my guy friend about it. They’re like, oh, I can handle it. Like, even if they maybe can’t, they like pretend like they can’t. So I think that’s the main problem is like the pretending side to like seem cool to their.
Molly: Not to seem like weak to their guy friends.
Todd: Yeah, I work with a lot of adult men and we’re trying to unwind that conditioning because I was taught, as I’m sure Rami has been taught, that vulnerability is a weakness. And now as an older man, I know that vulnerability is a strength. It’s easy to be shut down.
Todd: It’s really scary and putting yourself out there to be emotionally vulnerable, but that’s really how we connect with other human beings. And it’s, you know, and I, I have three daughters, so I know it’s also very, very difficult to be a, a girl, um, on a high school campus. And as you guys will probably find out on a college campus, so it’s not like one is harder than the other, it’s just.
Todd: Two different sets of challenges.
Cathy: Two different [00:28:00] sets of cultural expectations that is unfortunately we, you know, perpetuate them and then we spend our lives basically after 25 and on, unlearning all of this stuff. So what I appreciate is that you guys are starting to untangle it. really early, you know, where you’re already looking at it and it doesn’t mean you haven’t been affected by culture and society.
Cathy: You have, because we all have, but you’re questioning it way before, you know, some of the women I meet with are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and they’re just questioning this conditioning. So, um, So I want to ask you a question about, you guys said at the beginning, the high school you go to is in Hinsdale, and for those of you listening who are not from the Chicago area, it’s similar to the community that Todd and I live in, where the high school is well funded, it’s a, the community has wealth, there is a lot of focus on achievement, and there is You know, the thing that goes along with that, especially I can say in the Chicagoland area, and I’m sure this is true in other suburban [00:29:00] areas around the country, is that there is a toxic culture of achievement where it’s so heightened because there is more access, there is more access to tutors, there’s more access, you know, to doing better, to travel teams, to so much pressure.
Cathy: And so do you, obviously you said at the very beginning, you know, you spoke about your high school as being, you know, a well funded school, you know, you have plenty of advantages, but do you feel that toxic culture in your high school?
Rami: Um, yeah, I think like, especially now with college applications and like ACT, just standardized testing in general, I think like there’s a lot of competition.
Rami: I think competition is the right word to use because that’s what we’re all experiencing. Um, and then Not only like well funded schools experiences, I think it’s like competition is just really heightened nowadays with like just across the country, um, especially yeah, like once again, like it all ties back to social media, just comparing yourself.
Rami: And then yeah, [00:30:00] once we like go back to our local community, the vast majority of people have tutors, um, whether it’s for AP classes or for the ACT, the SAT, college tutors, like People helping you write your essays, editing them, just like planning out where you want to apply, just everything in general. I think it’s just like so much, like it’s so overwhelming.
Rami: Um, like I, even I get overwhelmed. I think that’s my biggest stressor. It’s just college applications. And like, it’s like, I don’t know, just like where are you applying? It’s just all that same stuff over and over.
Zara: Yeah, I think like, so like our high school has like a high school decision page and basically like they post while the seniors are going.
Zara: And I think that like That really shows like the competitiveness of like our school. Cause I mean, you’re just like scrolling through your Instafeed and it’s like Duke, Harvard, Penn. And you’re just like, oh my God. So yeah.
Todd: You think they should get, cause when Cathy and I are so old, I don’t think they did that for us.
Cathy: You know, and we went to different school. I mean, you went to Loyola, which [00:31:00] is pretty, but I
Todd: went to college prep, but we didn’t have any listing where everybody was going. And I can only imagine that feeds the craziness.
Cathy: I know. And I’m sure you guys hear this all the time and maybe feel it in your own body is that I’ve worked with plenty of, you know, teens over the last 10 years who have chosen a school.
Cathy: Based on that day on a sweatshirt day or on a, you know, they’ve said I’m deciding between these two schools and this one. Yeah, this is one of my parents went to, I’m excited about it smaller, but this one is, is more prominent. And so a lot of decisions are often based on that first, that do you guys do the sweatshirt day too, where everybody wears.
Cathy: Yeah. And so that you obviously probably you already said it, but you feel that pressure to show up in a way where it you’re keeping up with what everybody else is doing.
Todd: Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, Rami.
Rami: Oh, yeah, I was just gonna say like, um, personally, I think like my [00:32:00] parents don’t really care where I go for undergrad.
Rami: But like, I’ve just always had this like, this thought in my head where like, I just need to like, go like, to the like, most like, best named college just so I can like, compare with everyone else. I think like, while it’s like, not really my parents that are pressuring me, I think it’s just like, pressure, me putting pressure on myself.
Zara: Yeah, I also think like, there is a sense of like, guilt that like, comes along with it. Cause I think like, I mean, I could say like I feel that I’ve been like given everything to succeed. Like anytime I’ve struggled in a class, I’ve been given a tutor anytime, like for the A CTI was in tutoring, like I’ve given, I’ve been given so many resources.
Zara: So I think a part of like me also feels like. Like, I need to go to a good college, not because of pressure of my parents, but because I’ve been given all these opportunities and like, I can’t put them to waste. Like, I need to make the best of everything I’ve been given.
Todd: Yeah. It’s rough. I’m just like, you know, and I, whatever, somebody is going to Harvard, good for them.
Todd: But when I see somebody is like going to a junior college or [00:33:00] somebody is going to be a plumber or somebody is going to take a gap year, I’m just like, Those are the kids I want to like meet because they’re more interesting to me than some kid who’s fallen into line every step of the way to get into Harvard.
Cathy: And Todd, what I love about what they were just saying is that, that, because again, you guys, as we were saying, we have three daughters and we’re the same way in this household. Like we’re, there’s no, you know, where you want to go to school. If you want to go to school, like we’ve had all these openings to, you know, choosing whatever they want.
Cathy: And especially my oldest daughter has been very clear. Like it’s not coming from you guys. It’s they’re like, this is like in the classroom. This is with our friendships. This is like, you know, sometimes pressure from an advisor to take it up a notch. You know, the expectations about how many AP classes, like a lot of this is just culturally ingrained.
Cathy: And so a lot of parents listening will say, I don’t know why my kid feels so much pressure because they’re not getting it from me. And we have to recognize that you, you guys are just swimming in it.
Todd: Yeah. So question regarding what Cathy’s saying, [00:34:00] I’m sure that there is pressure that comes from parents and school advisors and teachers and all that, but is there peer to peer pressure as well?
Todd: Like, Hey, if you don’t go here, then it’s not as cool. Like, do you hear that from your peers or not really? So let’s start with Molly.
Molly: Um, I definitely think there is pressure because, like, even if people don’t explicitly say it, like, everyone at Central sort of has their opinions about, like, what a good school is versus what, like, a bad school would be in their eyes, and I think, like, people just feel the pressure that they, like, have to match up to everyone else, and if someone’s going to Duke and you say you’re going to, like, some college that may be, like, not as good, they just feel, like, lesser than, and even, like, Even with TikTok, it’s a big thing, because I know on my free page, like, I get, um, TikToks of, like, people applying to certain schools, and they list all their extracurriculars, their GPA, they’re like, basically whole resume in one TikTok.
Molly: You’re just scrolling, you’re looking at this, and you’re like, how do I measure up to this? Like, I want to go to that school, but I’m [00:35:00] like, look like nothing compared to that. So it’s like, I don’t know, you’re just getting all that pressure, and I feel like, Yeah.
Cathy: And you guys, you know, taking it up a notch on TikTok at the, you know, around this time of year when people start or not now, but in the spring when people start to get, you know, accepted into schools, kids don’t just say where they’re going.
Cathy: They list all the schools. This is where I got in. This is where I didn’t get in. And the kids who tend to be doing that, there’s some who kind of do it in a funny way. Like I got in none of these places, but a lot of them it’s to demonstrate I got in everywhere. You know, and then I was, so it’s not just the one school.
Cathy: Um, so in other words,
Todd: they’re bragging about all the schools that accepted them.
Cathy: Yeah, but they put it to music and it looks, you know, you’re excited to see, did you get into this? Well, like it, it becomes a show. Um, and so it, it just, it feels, you know, me just as, You know, watching from the outside, it just feels like it’s not just pressure to get into one school, but to demonstrate that you have the capacity.
Todd: So how about this, Zara, tell us if [00:36:00] you’re willing your relationship with social media. Do you love it? Do you hate it? Does it depend?
Zara: Um, well, I’ve like gone through so many phases with social media, like, like a year ago. Actually more than a year ago now, like during COVID, I had this idea because I was really bored to like delete all social media for six months.
Zara: And I think that when I had like all my social media deleted, I truly was like the happiest person, like honored. Like I think I was just like, I had nothing in my way. But I also would say that like, the only reason I was like able to do that was because it was COVID. It was because I didn’t feel like I was like, missing out.
Zara: But I feel like now, like When I think of like, oh, let’s delete Snapchat, I think of like, okay, well, you’re gonna miss all your friends stories. You’re gonna miss all of this. So it’s like, you wanna, I feel like there’s, I have this relationship with social media where it’s like, I know I probably shouldn’t have it.
Zara: Like, I probably shouldn’t be on it that much, but it’s like, I feel like I’m almost too [00:37:00] deep into it where I’m like, I, like, I can’t go back now. But like, I definitely feel like, like, I can say that, like, For, like, for my kids, like, I don’t want social media until they’re, like, at least, like, 13. Like, I didn’t get, my parents didn’t let me get social media until I was, like, in eighth grade, and I think that’s, like, the earliest a kid should get social media, because I think when you get social media, it truly does, like, change, like, a lot.
Zara: Like, especially, like, what Robin was talking about with Instagram. Like, I think the amount of time I’ll spend, like, just scrolling through things, and I’ll be, like, And I, it’s like, it’s really hard to just like, not compare yourself to the people. Like now, I’m not just saying like physically, but it’s even hard to be like, you’re not going anywhere for winter break, and this person’s in Mexico, and this person’s here, and this person’s here.
Zara: And I think that like, I don’t think I’ve ever left Instagram feeling like, better about myself. So I have social media, but I definitely like, don’t, I would not, like I think if you could avoid getting it, like you should. Like I do not think [00:38:00] it’s a good at all.
Todd: Rami, social media, what’s your deal?
Rami: Um, I think, I think everyone has like a different perspective on social media.
Rami: Um, while I agree on Zara, like about most things, I feel like I, like, I take social media as like a motivation. Like, I don’t know if that’s like a toxic thing, but like, I, I take it as like a motivation to like better myself. I think, I don’t know, that’s just how I was raised. But like, I just like, I take it as like something to like make myself better or like, improve on things.
Rami: Like, if I see someone’s, like, college decision piece, like, I’ve set a goal for myself to reach what they did. Or if I see someone, like, vacationing, I’m like, oh, when I go there, I want to take this picture and I want it to be just as good. Like, I don’t know. I just, that’s just how I feel. But, like, I think other people, like, take, just everyone has their own different perspective on social media, I think.
Zara: Yeah, while Rami gets motivated, some people might get like, really like, sad about it. So,
Rami: I
Zara: think there’s love in this.
Cathy: Well, and even, you know, Rami, like, that’ll work until it doesn’t work, and I’m not saying it won’t. I’m just saying that that is sometimes a direction. Like, [00:39:00] one of my oldest, my oldest daughter would always say like, Social media is a job all in itself and not just posting stuff, but building up the tolerance of seeing it and tolerating seeing where people are and, and, you know, making sure that you’re, she was like, it’s literally, it, it takes up a space in your brain that you have to consider at all times.
Cathy: And so I think we all go through phases, including people, my age, you know, that’s, what’s so crazy. You guys, as I’m sure, you know, this, you know, from your own parents or the adults around you, but they’re on social media too, doing the same thing. You know, here’s my family, here’s my vacation, here’s and so even with grown, you know, grown women, I’m talking to them about not allowing it to overcome them.
Cathy: And they use it in positive ways until then they feel like it’s taking over. So there’s always this like tipping point for each person. And then Molly, what do you think?
Molly: Um, well, I think there’s actually two sides of social media, because I feel like [00:40:00] it depends on the app. But for me, my TikTok can either be like Some TikToks on my For You page actually like Make me feel grateful because it’s like a TikTok about like, I’m like helping people or it’s like a person like I can relate to being like I’m so stressed like There’s two sides there can be the side that’s like, oh like I can’t measure up but there’s also the side of like teens relating to teens and so like I feel like it’s hard to say, like, for me, I don’t, like, if my mom was like, Molly, delete TikTok, I’d be like, yeah, I wouldn’t.
Molly: I’d be like, no, like, yeah, no, because, like, for me, it’s also a break. Like, if I’m done with my homework, I’m like, okay, yeah, like, I can go on, like, TikTok now and, like, relax. But it’s also unhealthy because, like, depends on the amount of time you spend on it. I feel like there’s two sides and, like, sometimes parents only see, like, the really bad side, but there’s also, like, there can be a good side.
Cathy: I agree with you. Well, I think there can be a fun side to it as well.
Todd: For sure. Um, and, uh, you don’t have to [00:41:00] get specific about your parents, but is Cathy’s talking about some hypocrisies as parents are really good at telling you kids what to do and how to do it. Yet we’re doing the opposite, whether it’s about
Cathy: we’re doing the same thing
Todd: or, or social media or screen time.
Todd: Like, do you guys, is there like, Okay. An understanding amongst high school seniors that, yeah, our parents tell us to do the, tell us not to do the very same thing that they are doing. Is that something that is sometimes talked about in your circles?
Rami: Um, I think I, we don’t really necessarily talk about our parents and their social media use, but like.
Rami: I think, like, personally, me and my mom, like, kind of joke around about this, but, um, like, she’s always on her phone, and she always tells me not to be on my phone, and then I’m like, wait, but you’re always on your phone. It’s, like, something we laugh about. It’s not anything, like, toxic or anything, but, like, we laugh about it, and we both acknowledge how we, like, we both have, like, we both have, like, Problems with our phones, like it’s not an addiction, but like we rely on them.[00:42:00]
Rami: That’s like our mental break of the day. Like, it’s not like taking a lap outside. It’s like going on our phones. I think that’s what the problem is. Yeah.
Zara: Also, I would agree with him. I don’t think there’s necessarily like a hypocrisy, but I think like a really like unanimous statement kids would make is like, parents are really like against phones.
Zara: And I think that when a parent’s like, It’s the phone. Like, that’s the reason you’re saying. I feel like, as a kid, that’s like an automatic, like, turn off. Like, it’s an automatic of, you’re not, like, understanding me. And although, like, the phones could play a role. I just think that, like, I do think that phones play a significant role in it.
Zara: I just think that when you, like, say that to your kid first hand, like, that pushes them, like, away.
Rami: Yeah.
Zara: Yeah.
Rami: I also, I think we’ve reached a point, like, in, like, life, where we can’t really, like, eliminate the phone.
Molly: Yeah, it’s like,
Rami: it’s like in, and you can’t really take it out. Like, you can’t, like, a parent can’t just take away their kid’s phone because then they’re going to be disconnected from their friends.
Rami: And then
Zara: feel more left out, and then cause more issues. Like, now, like, when you Snapchat at 10, [00:43:00] all their friends have Snapchat, so they’re the only one not in the group chat, so they feel left out at 10. So I think phones, like we’ve ever seen, it’s So engraved now that like really taking them away can cause like more issues.
Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. And it can cause such a rift with your own kids. You know, the, when parents do jump to, like, I’ll give this as an example. A lot of times parents will tell me that their kids come to them. And say, I’m really struggling with something on the phone, or somebody said something to me that wasn’t kind, or someone is trying to connect with me that I don’t want to, and the parent’s automatic response is, well then we’re not going to have the phone.
Cathy: And so the next time the kid runs into something on the phone, they’re not going to talk to their parents. Because they know that the decision is going to be just to take it all away. Instead of to help them be technologically, you know, mindful and to be like a good, you know, to understand digitally how to handle these things because if it, you know, if it’s trolling or bullying or, you know, accessing things that they shouldn’t be or [00:44:00] whatever, we need to help our kids manage that rather than, you know, You know, keep it from them because you’re eventually going to have to figure that out, you know, just like we do.
Cathy: And I’m, you guys are more skilled than we are. Like, we’re very aware that by your age, you know, so much more than we do about how to utilize, you know, technology. But I think that it becomes this, you know, this thing that parents do as a a consequence or to, as you said, it becomes the only issue. The reason you’re not doing well on a test is because of your phone.
Cathy: And when really that can be sometimes the reason that you can chill after a test. You know, it’s there, there’s, we have to have an understanding as parents. And again, I’m not talking to you guys, cause I know you know this. I’m talking to the parents listening that we need to have conversations with our kids about the phones and maybe have some Conversations about I’m just as addicted as you are, but relate rather than punish is, you know, kind of the way that I always try and, you know, support parents is help them through it rather [00:45:00] than take it away from them.
Molly: Yeah. Yeah. A big thing is activities because if your schedule is like filled, like if you play a sport or like you’re involved in other things other than just like. You go to school and you go home. I feel like going to school and go home, like you have a lot of extra time. Then that’s when like kids can like get addicted to scrolling because they go home and they have like, what, like so many hours and then they can just scroll on their phone and then the night gets late and then they like start their homework late.
Molly: Whereas like if you’re a part of other things, like separate from just going home, like if you’re a part of a sport, like clubs or other things, like. Force you away from your phone. I feel like that also helps.
Cathy: Yes.
Zara: And I also think like, like I would say like having things in your day, like it also just makes me more of like a productive person.
Zara: Like even today, having this for an hour, like I was so productive before because I was like, I need to get homework done before. And I think usually I wouldn’t have started my homework to like 6 p. m. So I think that like when you, one of the best things that I think kids [00:46:00] can do is like both things in their day.
Zara: Cause I think that like you, we have so much more time than we think we have. And we also, I think like for me, like I often overestimate how much I have to do in a day. So I think that like, when you like put things in your day, it just makes you more of like a productive person.
Cathy: Yeah. It’s, it’s like structuring your time, right?
Cathy: You’re like, you kind of map out your day so you can figure out how to get things done.
Todd: So do you guys have any techniques on how to Chill yourself out if you’re totally like jacked up on stress or anxiety. Do you guys have anything that you do or do you struggle just like the rest of us about how to like de stress yourself?
Rami: Um, I think the thing that like really helps me the most is planning out my day Like especially during school like when I know I have a lot of homework I have a lot of tests to like the next day well because our school gives us um, like daily planners So I fill mine out. I know a lot of people don’t fill them out, but I use it.
Rami: And I like, I write down like what I need to do that day. Like my homework or what [00:47:00] I’m going to do during study hall. And then what I’m going to do after school. And then like, what am I going to do after a swim practice? I just like, I really like planning out my day. Like I’m a very big planner. If I don’t plan, then I just like get really stressed out and like.
Rami: I get anxious.
Zara: Yeah.
Todd: Zara?
Zara: For me, I think like, when I get to a point where I’m like, really stressed, the best thing for me to do is like, step away. Because I do, planning out, I do a lot too, but I think you have to be like, somewhat calm. Personally, I have to be calm to like, plan things out. Because when I’m really stressed, my mind’s like, spiraling.
Zara: Like, I’m not thinking of, From four to six, you’re going to do this. And seven to like, I, like, that’s not the, my mind’s just like, Oh my God, there’s no way you’re going to get this all done. You might as well just like go to bed and like not even do it. One of the things I think I do as well. One, like, I mean, like Molly would do this, like when, if I’m really stressed and it’s like 9 PM, like I’ll just like go to bed and I wake up early.
Zara: Like one of the things I started doing this year was like, I’ll go to bed at nine and wake up at like 4 AM because it’s like approaching it with like a fresh mind for [00:48:00] me is like. really important. So like when I’m like really like, like flipping out and like stressed out, like I like either just like step away for a little bit, I’ll go shower, I’ll like call my friends and I’ll be like, yeah, like I just need a break or I’ll just like wait and like approach it with like new eyes like the next day.
Todd: Molly, how do you de stress yourself?
Molly: Um, like music. Yeah. I, I’m a big music listener and I feel like, I don’t know, it just like, If I’m like not motivated or if I’m stressed and like I’m avoiding it, like playing music helps me just like get sort of like excited and like, I don’t know, it just helps me like stay motivated and sort of just like stay in a better mood.
Molly: Yeah.
Todd: Um, top three favorite artists, bands, singers, songwriters, whatever.
Zara: Probably, hmm. She doesn’t know. Noah Kahn. She never knows the answer to this question. Everyone asks her the answer to this
Molly: question. Like all our teachers ask her. She never knows. I just listen [00:49:00] to like so many different, like, like so many.
Molly: I don’t have like really favorites. I just listen to like, every single song is from a different artist.
Cathy: You know what? I’m totally with you, and I’ve been that way since I was a teenager. It’s very hard to say this is the band because it’s more about songs. Like, sometimes you find some continuity or you like a full album, but it’s like, I like, you know, so many different things.
Cathy: So Todd, see Todd in high school liked like three bands. They were all really depressing. They’re great music, but they were like, I was pretty boring. He was Pink Floyd. Yeah. The doors. They don’t know who those leds up. Sure. They do. You guys don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know any
Rami: of those.
Cathy: Yes. It’s all classic rock.
Cathy: You’ll, you’ll eventually hear it eventually because it’s still out there. Um, but who’s the third Led Zeppelin.
Todd: Uh, well, I mean, those are the old ones, but you know, the newer ones, which are like 25 years old, like Pearl Jam and things like that, you two, um, same question to you, [00:50:00] Zara, top two or three favorite bands or singers or whatever.
Zara: I don’t know. I’m kind of like Molly. Like I have, I think Noah Khan is definitely like my top, my music tastes depends on my mood. Like it depends on what I’m doing when I’m doing homework. Like I feel like that’s just like a depressing vibe. So like I don’t like listening to like really happy music because like I associate music with like feelings.
Zara: Like in summer when I’m driving with friends like I’ll listen to like really upbeat songs but like during this full year like I don’t want to like I often like I’ll say like I don’t want to ruin the song. Like I don’t want to be doing it when I’m like doing something that’s like different. But like when I’m doing my homework it’s like Noah Kahn and then I think like yeah I don’t know.
Zara: I don’t know. Great. Drake. Yeah, in summer I listen to like Drake. Like I’ll up the, up it a little bit. Yeah.
Todd: Rami, your turn.
Rami: I’m not really much of like a specific artist person. I kind of like, like I have this thing where I go on Spotify and look up like an album because they have like pre made albums.
Rami: And I don’t know why but [00:51:00] like, I’ve really been like into like the 2016 like music vibe. Like that’s like really weird to say but like that’s just what gets me like happy because it reminds me of like, Like, I don’t know, I feel like life was just so good back then. I was like, I was like only like nine years old,
Molly: but like, I don’t
Rami: know.
Rami: I just really, I like, that was like one of my favorite times in life. So I just like, it reminds me of them.
Zara: Yeah, music associates with everything. Yeah,
Rami: we’re learning about
Zara: that in psych. Yeah.
Cathy: Absolutely. It literally brings you back to those feelings, like, uh, songs and smells. are the things that bring us back the fastest to the way that we used to feel at a certain time.
Cathy: So I love that. Um, okay, you guys, we’re getting to the end here. So I want to give you each an opportunity. If there’s something we didn’t ask you or something you want to make sure parents understand about what you’re doing specifically, or what you think would be helpful. Um, why don’t each of you just share?
Cathy: And if you feel like we covered it, that’s fine too, but I just want to make sure you get the last word here.[00:52:00]
Molly: I just think listening. Just like really listening. Like we already talked about it, but I think that’s like the main one for me that I would like want like parents to understand is like just like listening to their kid and listening to what they have to say and like instead of like taking like control, like trying to take control, like being partners, like working together to solve the problem rather than like working against each other.
Molly: Really?
Todd: Beautiful. Love it.
Zara: Yeah, I would also add that I feel like there’s a difference between like listening and like being overbearing. Because I think that like, sometimes like, because parents really like want to take that pain away from their kids, they really like, like what Molly said, take a ton of control.
Zara: And I think that like, When you do that like it pushes your kids away. So I feel like listening and then like really trying your best to like not be like overbearing.
Rami: I like it. I think our like my most important thing is like also like taking care of yourself like the parents like take care of yourself while you’re taking care of your kid because you like all parents love their kids very much of course but you also need to [00:53:00] like need to love yourself and you need you need to give yourself time so you need to like work on yourself and you need to work on your kids at the same time.
Rami: Boom.
Cathy: Totally. So then you don’t have to worry about us. If you know that we’re taking care of ourselves, you can just focus on yourself. That is like the perfect thing to say on Zen Parenting Radio. Oh, to listen is to love. Thanks. You’re so right. Well, um, to all three of you, um, We’re just so grateful that you were willing to, first of all, spend time with us tonight because you do have a lot of homework.
Cathy: I know. I’m very aware because Skylar’s texting me right now saying come up. I have something to, I need help with something. And then, um, also for your innovation and your creativity in putting together this organization to, um, Help of course yourselves, but to help other people, you’re taking what, you know, and turning it out into the world, which is probably the most important thing.
Cathy: I know you have a lot to learn in high school and college and a lot of it is about tests and everything, but really that’s what you need to know is [00:54:00] that’s what’s the most important thing. So you guys already have a skill set that a lot of people never quite capture. So thank you. So,
Todd: and I should have, uh, said the name of the website is Chase.
Todd: Light dot O R G, and it’s got a lot of good things on there, um, just to kind of read off the headings, it’s, uh, resources. Mindfulness, simple definitions, uh, knowing your rights as a teenager. There’s a parent guide and they also have events and then a board and then I think an Instagram account. So, um, yes.
Todd: And Cathy and I, I don’t know if she told you guys that the NAMI walk, but we have this conference that we host every year and it’s in Oak Brook. And if there’s going to be, you know, some younger people, but a lot of us. You know, who are raising teenagers, but if you guys wanted to come, uh, to any of it, it’s a two day event.
Todd: If you want to just pop in for an hour or two,
Cathy: maybe get a minute to kind of share what you’re doing. Yeah. Um, and so people can find you and maybe even ask you questions. They might pull you aside in the [00:55:00] hallway or whatever, but, um, we’d love to, we’d love to have you.
Todd: I’ll send you some information on that, but, uh, and Amy,
Zara: who
Todd: has been listening, uh, this whole time.
Todd: She says, these young adults are awesome. Thank you. So on behalf of Cathy and I and all the other parents of teenagers out there, it really was helpful to me to kind of hear it from somebody other than my kids. And the themes are very consistent. So, uh, but it’s nice to hear it and appreciate your vulnerability and everything that you’re doing.
Cathy: Thanks you guys. Thanks for being with us. Have
Zara: a good night.
Todd: You guys did great. Nice job
Todd: and meeting.
[00:56:00]
