Blog Post

Navigating Parenting, Politics, and Uncertainty: Insights from Zen Parenting Radio

Welcome to Zen Parenting Radio’s episode 788, where Todd and Cathy explore the intersection of parenting philosophies, political engagement, and embracing uncertainty. As we dive into the discussions from this episode, we’ll highlight key themes of supporting our children, the significance of civic involvement, and the power of embracing uncertainty.

Understanding Parenting Philosophies

Todd introduces the episode by sharing reflections from a recent conversation with a friend, which brings to light the importance of ensuring our children feel supported. Reflecting on their personal parenting journeys, Todd and Cathy emphasize that the core of parenting is to let your children know you have their back. Cathy further adds that starting this supportive relationship early makes it easier to maintain as children grow older.

The Role of Uncertainty in Parenting

Cathy shifts the dialogue to discuss the role of uncertainty in parenting. She stresses the value of acknowledging that sometimes, as parents, “I don’t know” can be a powerful response. This not only demonstrates humility but also encourages critical thinking and self-sovereignty in children. Cathy emphasizes that embracing uncertainty fosters openness to possibilities and cultivates a mindset that is adaptable to life’s unpredictabilities.

Civic Engagement and Parenting

With the election looming, Todd and Cathy address the significance of civic engagement, particularly among younger generations. Cathy recounts experiences that reveal a sense of complacency in younger voters and underlines the urgency of voting, especially in today’s politically charged climate. They stress the importance of instilling a sense of civic duty in our children, helping them understand that their participation shapes the future.

Empathy and Broader Perspectives in Conversations

Todd shares a personal story about engaging in political discussions with young men at a football game. His approach centered on curiosity and empathy, seeking to understand their perspectives without imposing his own beliefs. This highlights the importance of open dialogue in fostering awareness and understanding, crucial elements in navigating our diverse world.

Women and Political Concerns

Cathy passionately addresses the fears women face regarding political outcomes and rights that are at risk. She voices the concerns of women she interacts with, emphasizing that these fears are real and present. Her plea is for men to take these concerns seriously, advocating for empathy and understanding in recognizing the stakes for women in political decisions.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a call to action for heightened engagement and consideration of diverse viewpoints. Todd and Cathy remind listeners that nurturing a sense of belonging and civic involvement in our children contributes to a more connected and compassionate society. With the election a week away, they urge everyone to reflect on voting not just as a duty, but as an opportunity to advocate for the issues that genuinely matter, supporting communities and the rights of all individuals.

Through Zen Parenting Radio, Todd and Cathy inspire us to stay curious, engaged, and supportive, fostering an environment where uncertainty is embraced, conversations are open, and civic participation is valued.

Transcript

[00:00:00]

Todd: Here we go, my name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number 788. Why listen to Zen Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding. And always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s well being Is, in fact, a parent’s self understanding.

Todd: Um, I was just having, uh, coffee, actually I had iced tea with a friend of mine and we’re talking about parenting philosophies and he and I are going through some of the same things. And I know I’m repeating myself, but after what, 14 years of podcasting and 21 years of parenting, at the end of the day, Our job is to make sure our kids know that we got their back.

Cathy: When you say you’re going through the [00:01:00] same things, what are these things you’re going through? You don’t have to, um,

Todd: uh, yeah, one of our daughters was struggling yesterday morning regarding, um, regarding some things. Okay. I don’t want to get more specific than that. Okay. And his daughter was going through the exact same thing.

Todd: Okay. And we were talking about how we approached it pretty much from the same place. And I know that this is too cryptic and it’s hard to get your arms around.

Cathy: Well, and it’s really not that deep. I think all of our kids like have days where they’re like questioning, what do I do? Where do I go? What am I going to do next?

Cathy: They have to, especially as they’re becoming young adults, there’s so many decisions to make. Right. And it can be really uncertain, uncertain and scary.

Todd: Yeah. So when you’re stuck, uh, because in parenting we, we sometimes get stuck, try your best to just do it from the lens of, okay, how do I, how do I make sure this kid knows I got their back or I’m on their team?

Todd: Because too many times I feel the need to teach my kid a lesson. And in my [00:02:00] experience, most of the lessons are going to happen outside this house. And my job is to support them in them navigating those challenges.

Cathy: So I would say that that is true. And that I really do think that these, this, you know, for those of you listening, who have younger kids, this should start very early.

Cathy: I think the whole idea of having their back and understanding what they’re going through, the earlier it starts, the easier it is to maintain it when they’re, It’s hard to not

Todd: have their back for 12 years and then, hey, by the way, I have your back because they won’t, they won’t believe you.

Cathy: Right. Like, that’s the thing is to have your kids back is not just about to say, it’s not about just saying I have your back.

Cathy: Yeah. It’s to actually have their back. It’s to really be honest. a support system and not someone who is judging or is asking them to be different or is expecting them to show up for you in a certain way. Like it’s a, um, a way of honoring where they are at any given time. Um, and, and recognizing that it’s not your road, [00:03:00] it’s their road, and you want to be the person that, you know, think about yourself when you were young, what did you need?

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: Be that person.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: So.

Todd: Yeah. That’s a little dangerous because, you know, in our, we might have. Parenting amnesia. We might think we wanted something when we were 17 years old. I just need a good swift kick in the butt to get me out of there.

Cathy: That’s just a story. Like the truth is when you say, when I say, what did you need?

Cathy: You have to put on teen glasses, right? You take off your adult glass. Cause if you keep your adult glasses on, then you’ll say things like, Oh, I needed this and this. But if you’re a teenager, if you can remember, the way you felt about, maybe you had parents who you went to, but most of the people I talked to, especially in my own generation, they didn’t really talk to their parents about things.

Cathy: And they felt scared to do so.

Todd: Well, what’s interesting is we’re going to talk a little bit about civic engagement today, and we’re going to be talking about, you know, maybe the election that’s happening next Tuesday, just so everybody knows this is going on October 29th, [00:04:00] 2024. So we’re, what, eight days away or no, seven days away.

Todd: Yep. And, um, We’re gonna talk about some younger people who I’ve had conversations with, that you’ve had conversations with that are choosing not to vote. And you know, from my perspective, like how can you not vote? Like this is so big and when I was 22 I remember carrying a lot less than I do now and it’s hard to remember what it is.

Todd: Remember what it was like again,

Cathy: I’m gonna question you and say it is a completely different time.

Todd: I totally agree with you and. Um, I still think that there’s a complacency that a lot of younger people have, regardless of how different the time is.

Cathy: Right. I’m not disagreeing about that there’s complacency, but to, it’s kind of like saying, when I was young, I used to play outside, you know, and I was just fine or until, and we’re just in a different time where, um, I’m not questioning you, Todd, but we, it’s apples to oranges, like to say, well, when I was young, I didn’t really think about voting because you and I were talking about in the car yesterday, you [00:05:00] know, we’re the MTV generation and the whole rock the vote thing was huge.

Cathy: Like we were getting like marketed at, you know, Madonna was doing it, you know, they had all these people telling us to rock the vote and not everyone was rocking the vote. They didn’t care that much, you know, um, and. So I rocked the vote. Did

Todd: you

Cathy: rock the vote? Well, the ones I was able to vote. Yeah. Like, I don’t think I cared when I was 15, obviously, because I couldn’t really do anything.

Cathy: So

Todd: do you want to hear Anthony Kiedis rocking

Anthony: the

Todd: vote? Yeah. Hello. My

Anthony: name is Anthony and I’m here today to talk to you about what I consider to be the most beautiful and powerful ingredient of this democracy that we call America. And that ingredient is freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of artistic expression and freedom of choice.

Anthony: Unfortunately, there are certain very closed minded factions that are attempting to steal that freedom away from us. So if you care about what I’m talking about like I do, then you’re going to register to vote.

Cathy: Rock the vote! Very interesting. Right. [00:06:00] Yeah. Um, so we were getting told that, you know, in the eighties and trying to get people to vote and there was some complacency.

Cathy: I would say the election cycles that we’ve had for the last 10 years have been more important and extreme. Um, and when I say more important, every election cycle is important, but there’s been a sense of what direction we’re going to go in as a country. And while we can, it’s so funny because every time I say that, it’s always been that way.

Cathy: But this, we’re in an extreme time, everybody. I’m sorry. I’ve been doing this for 10 years. Since we, we’ve been doing, um, Zen Parenting Radio for 14 years. And 10 of those years, I’ve had to deal with a certain candidate that, that has been so difficult to deal with emotionally, uh, literally, um, You know, and there’s, it’s created so much fear and tension that I’m just ready for this to be done.

Cathy: Yeah. And I’m doing everything I can in my [00:07:00] power to change the trajectory of our country in going in the right direction. Um, and I know there will be some people who I know we haven’t really gotten, I know you still need to do my Zen Parenting Moment, Todd, but I know there might be people who listen who.

Cathy: Think differently. And that’s, I guess that’s fine. Um, but this is not something that I take lightly at all. I’m a woman. Um, I work with women. I’m raising women. And our rights are being taken away. I mean, you, you can say, no, they’re not. I marched in the Women’s March. In 2017, and I had so many of my friends who were Republicans email me and text me and say, what are you doing?

Cathy: This is ridiculous. This president hasn’t even started yet. What are you worried about? And of course, I was worried about Roe v. Wade. And everyone’s like, you’re crazy. You’re crazy. You’re crazy. And guess what? I wasn’t. And I knew I wasn’t. And guess what? Right now I’m, I’m worried about women’s health and maternal mortality and contraception and access to [00:08:00] reproductive freedom and just overall health and a million other things, but I’m just gonna focus on women and don’t tell me I’m crazy.

Cathy: Because I’m not. I’ve been watching what’s happening, and I know, and so I’m here for women. And that’s, you know, for my own self interest and for the self interest of all the women that I love and care about. And I don’t have space or time anymore for why I’m wrong or why I shouldn’t be talking about it because That’s just the way it is.

Cathy: Now, I mean, I’ve been talking about it since the beginning, if you remember, Todd. Yeah. Um, we’ve had plenty of podcasts. This isn’t new, but, um, it’s way too important. And if you have any, there’s a million other reasons I could give you the fact that we had a, um, Or we didn’t, but there was a, uh, what would you call it?

Cathy: A rally at Madison square garden this weekend. And it with so many racist things that were said, which they aren’t new to me. I’ve heard people in this environment, in the Trump environment, say these things over and over again for 10 years, but it was so overt and [00:09:00] blatant that I just don’t know how you can pretend that’s not happening on top of, you know, him being, uh, you know, 34 count indicted.

Cathy: criminal, um, and, or convict, and then somebody who has been found liable for sexual assault. Like, why are we even having this conversation? Like, how, how are we here? I don’t, I don’t understand. I really don’t.

Todd: Well, that’s the question you and I have been asking each other for a long time.

Cathy: Correct. So I will stop for a second.

Cathy: And you wanted to talk about my Zen

Todd: Parenting Moment. Yeah. So you wrote a Zen Parenting Moment. I don’t have what you titled it, but it’s basically that.

Cathy: I think I titled it. I don’t know.

Todd: All right. So I don’t know. It could be one of the most powerful things we offer our kids. I have some things highlighted, but.

Todd: Why don’t you just first start with, um, what you were trying to convey when you wrote that?

Cathy: Okay. So, um, the week before I wrote a substack called valuing uncertainty, which is probably one of the most important things we can, um, at least understand as parents is that everything is [00:10:00] uncertain. And our desire or belief that we can control things is what gets us in trouble as far as trying to control our children, um, trying to control the way their lives are going or who their friends are or how they look or what they say, um, or believing that we can control what certain outcomes are going to be when we, we just can’t.

Cathy: We can support our kids. We can honor who they are. We can put a best effort, be good enough parents and things still happen. And when I say things still happen, sometimes they’re good things. It’s not always negative, like valuing uncertainty doesn’t mean, so you better just deal with the fact that things are going to go bad.

Cathy: It doesn’t always work that way, but uncertainty is being open to the fact that you don’t know everything. And that sometimes, you know, The ability to manage the discomfort of the uncertainty is what allows you to be a parent who can listen, understand, appreciate, be mindful of the present moment. That, that ability to say, I don’t know what’s coming.[00:11:00]

Cathy: I don’t know where everything’s going to land, but right now I’m here and I trust that we as a family or me as an individual can handle what comes our way. And I decided, I wrote that and I got a few emails about it and I decided I wanted to follow up with another level of valuing uncertainty, which is recognizing the power of, I don’t know, which, you know, the book I wrote, Restoring Our Girls, that comes out in January.

Cathy: There’s a whole section about how girls just wish their parents would just Be honest about not knowing sometimes that there’s this need to believe that we know everything. We know what’s good for them, that anytime they ask us a question, we have an answer. And sometimes one of the best things we can do is when our kids say, I don’t, you know, should I do this?

Cathy: Should I do that? Is this the right move? Is that the right move to simply say, I don’t know. But let’s talk it through together. I don’t have a final answer for you, but let’s process through it and see if you can find the best [00:12:00] solution.

Todd: That’s right.

Cathy: Like, I don’t know is not weak. It’s actually honest and strong, and it gives your kid back their sense of sovereignty, so you’re not telling them how to be and who to be and what to be.

Cathy: Um, Can I play one of the most famous, I don’t know,

Todd: clips of all time? Please. Do you have any idea what I’m about to play? Well, it’s not the one that I put in. No, we’re gonna play that one after this one.

Cathy: Okay, uh, let’s see. Yeah, I do know. It’s Spicoli. No!

Why are you continuously late for this class, Mr.

Spicoli? Why do you shamelessly waste my time like this?

No!

I love Mr. Hand. I

Cathy: don’t know.[00:13:00]

I don’t know. It’s nice. Mr. Han, will I pass this class? Gee, Mr. Spicoli, I don’t know. I really like that. You know what I’m going to do? I’m going to leave your words on this board for all my classes to enjoy. Giving you full credit, of course, Mr. Spicoli. All right.

Todd: That’s so good. Um, all right. You ready to play the real clip?

Cathy: Sure. But I mean, let’s have our tagline be just be Spicoli. Just don’t know everything. Just, you know, what our big focus last year at the conference was, is no less. K N O W, less. Quit thinking you know everything. Because you know what? You have had a life experience. I’m getting on a, I’m, I’m, I’m all amped up for the election.

Cathy: I, I just don’t have any Fs to give anymore. You know what I mean? Like this is, this is ridiculous. [00:14:00] We have had certain life experiences. We look at the world through the lens of our life experience. It doesn’t mean it’s like that for everybody, including our kids, even kids who are raised, there are children and they’re raised in our house, but our viewpoint may not be theirs.

Cathy: They may see things in a totally different way. They may need completely different things. And we think. That we know exactly what they should do. So then they have the outcome like us. But the irony is, is the us that we’re referring to are people that you and I both see in our offices and they are not content with their lives.

Cathy: And so why not give your children the freedom to kind of figure out a path that works for them instead of knowing what you think they should do all the time?

Todd: So it’s just a, well, we talk a lot about curiosity. It’s like, Let’s stay curious. Yeah. If you’re curious, the answer is probably, I don’t know.

Cathy: Yes.

Cathy: Right. I don’t know. [00:15:00] And think about, and so if you’re like, well, help me with that. Cause that makes me feel uncomfortable. Look at it as a good, and I’m putting this in air quotes, lesson. Demonstrate some humility to acknowledge that your kid has a lot of information already to play with saying, I don’t know, not, I don’t know.

Cathy: So quit asking me, but I don’t know, let’s talk about it. Or I don’t know. I trust you.

Todd: Yeah. Um, So I’m going to play this clip from a Chris Evans movie that I’ve never seen called Gifted. Um, and I’m just noticing that the channel it’s on is called Infinite Movies and they have 36 subscribers and it makes me think of us because we got like, whatever, a hundred or 200.

Todd: So Cathy and I post stuff on YouTube all the time. If you want, if you’re a YouTuber or you frequent it like I do, it’s really the only social media that I spend any time with. If. YouTube is even social media. I don’t, I guess it is. Um, go, uh, head on over to Zen Parenting Radio. We got some good stuff on there.

Todd: So anyways, I’ve never seen this movie. Have you seen it? No. Okay. Never [00:16:00] seen it. Chris Evans.

Cathy: And you actually, as far as the clip goes. Yeah. It’s kind of long. So I would just play it

Todd: 45 seconds

Cathy: until she goes on and

Todd: it’s really, it’s the shot is beautiful because there’s a sunset in the background. So you just see the silhouettes of a father and I think his daughter,

Cathy: no, it’s an uncle and a niece.

Cathy: Okay.

Todd: Um,

Cathy: he’s raising her though.

Todd: Okay. And then, um, so anyways, Here we go.

Is there a God?

Todd: I don’t know.

Just tell me. I would if I could, but I don’t know. Neither does anybody else. Roberta knows. No. Roberta has faith. That’s a great thing to have, but faith’s about what you think, feel, not what you know. What about Jesus?

About that guy. Do you believe what he says? Uh, is he God? I don’t know. I have an opinion, but that’s my opinion. I could be wrong, so why would I screw up yours? Use your head. [00:17:00] Don’t be afraid to believe in things either.

Cathy: Really sweet, right? Very. And, and I find it to be very inspiring. It’s like, uh It’s a clip that, you know, it’s in my brain.

Cathy: Well, I’ve never seen the movie, but I’ve seen the clip a lot. Um, and so I knew I wanted to use it for that because it’s, I put it in my sub stack as an example of those are big questions. And what I love about it is he’s not saying he doesn’t have an opinion. He’s saying, I don’t know for sure, but I know what I think about it, but I want you to practice.

Cathy: Figuring out what you think about it.

Todd: Well, we’ve been talking about this, I think since our very first podcast, podcast number one, I’m a White Sox fan. And I certainly was going to raise my kids to say, Hey, in this family, we’re White Sox fans. And it’s a lot less important than the question of God and if God exists, but same thing, like let your kids figure it out.

Todd: And I think the reason we answer these questions with certainty and not allowing our kids [00:18:00] to To provide their own answer is because I like knowing, I think that they’re going to think I’m an expert and love me more as a result, and that’s. Probably true in the short term, but in the longterm, you’re not teaching them how to use their own brain and filter it through their own lens.

Cathy: And what, and what that’s called in a nutshell is critical thinking, which is another big part of my book that is really, really important to me personally. Um, because critical thinking is what keeps, and I’ll just focus on girls cause that’s what the book’s about. It’s what keeps them safe. The ability to recognize when something’s uncomfortable, the ability

Todd: Sorry, babe.

Cathy: What’s that? Oh, you’ll see. Don’t worry. I don’t, I don’t want you to play that. That’s old. I know. Um, but the ability to. You know, recognize, um, yeah, I lost my train of thought. I’m

Todd: sorry. I screwed it up. You did. I screwed

Cathy: it up. So let me go back. Let me take a deep breath. Critical thinking. Yeah. So it’s the ability for them to learn to trust [00:19:00] themselves, to recognize the information that they have, and then to process that against the information that’s being thrown at them.

Cathy: The ability to stay curious. It’s not about I’m only going to process my information and not look at yours. Look at everyone’s information. Be free. Like one of the things I’ll go really deep here, as far as my understanding of cults, is that something that cults will say to their followers is don’t look at the internet.

Cathy: Don’t read anything. Don’t look at what people are saying. And if you see anything bad, it’s because they’re against us. Sounds pretty like obvious that you’re trying to get people to not get any other information than what this high control group is giving you. Now, that’s an extreme version, but can’t you see how that can play out in other, in other ways?

Cathy: Like we want our kids to look at, and the thing is, is what’s so interesting. You know, talking about the election or talking about school or whatever. The truth is, I think we all want the same thing, which is our kids [00:20:00] to be okay and to be kind and to be connected and have relationships that are meaningful and live in a world where they feel safe and comfortable.

Cathy: I don’t think a lot of those things are happening in many ways. You know, I think, and I think that’s always been the case. I mean, I can speak generationally right now because of things like gun violence. And like I said, the risk of our rights being taken away and the rights that already have been and issues around, um, you know, whatever it may be that we’re feeling threatened by, you know, big global issues or more things in our own hometowns.

Cathy: But, I think we all have the same goal. It’s just what that looks like for each person is different. What they fear the most is different. And if we examine our fears, if we examine what’s going on in the world, if we listen to different viewpoints, if we listen to different news channels, we might be able to recognize a more common denominator, [00:21:00] you know, a more common way of thinking, but we do this binary of us versus them.

Yeah.

Cathy: And they’re really, I really think when it comes down to it, we want the same thing, but some people utilize. They take the fear we have. They

Todd: have two different paths of getting there. And

Cathy: they warp it. They hijack it. And they tell you, do as I say and you’ll be safe. And it’s crap. Yeah. That’s, I, it’s, it’s lies.

Cathy: Yeah. So, anyway.

Todd: Okay. Are we ready to talk about civil engagement? Sure. All right. Okay. Where do you want to start?

Cathy: So I just want to start because we have an election in a week, you know, Todd and I, uh, we’ve, we’ve talked about politics and, and social, or excuse me, civil engagement in our homes since the girls were little.

Cathy: Um, like I said, there’s been a lot of reason to, because the last 10 years has been kind of rough to be honest. And I don’t mean every single second of it. Um, you know, I feel like I’ve felt better in the last four years than I did in the previous four. Um, but there was always still this threat, you know, this looming like You know, [00:22:00] threat of the, you know, the trajectory is going to change again.

Cathy: And obviously that’s on the, you know, that’s a, a threat right now. Um, but I, I kind of feel like, The ability to introduce our children to an understanding of what’s going on in the world. And again, in a child developmentally appropriate way, you don’t have to engage them in all of the issues that are going on globally.

Cathy: Sometimes it’s too overwhelming and they may not be ready for it, but there’s a lot of things we expect them to do. For example, shooter drills. In the school, we expect them to figure out how to hide under a desk or in a closet, or shut off the light, or shut off their phone just in case someone comes in with a gun.

Cathy: So why not at home talk about those issues and those things that are You know, ever present in our society and why this is an issue and do some research ourselves as parents like instead, and it doesn’t have to be extreme. Like this is what I mean in the [00:23:00] middle. You could be someone who is a gun owner, but you believe in common sense gun laws, or you believe that there’s some, be some restrictions on age, but you do really enjoy hunting and you want to maintain that.

Cathy: There is a way to figure this out. I think we’re more You know, and that’s an interesting, critical thinking conversation with our kids is about some people appreciate this. Some states have a different culture when it comes to this, but we can find these happy mediums and not demonize people over their beliefs.

Cathy: And that starts very early. Like I even. You know, sometimes I think we’ve discussed this before, but you know, maybe we’ve talked about certain things and then my girls will, you know, latch onto something and make fun of a different, a certain aspect. And I’ll say, now, wait a second, let’s think through that.

Cathy: Like it would be something like when you drive into Indiana, there’s a lot of billboards that say, hell is real. Hell is real. Jesus lives. And because of course we would talk about that cause we drive into Indiana and [00:24:00] Michigan all the time. You know, then they started kind of making light of it like, Oh, isn’t that ridiculous?

Cathy: And I’m like, but we still have to keep an open mind about the Jesus that we understand, you know, just like that. I love that clip where he’s like, love that guy. Do what he says. Jesus is not the problem. What’s the problem is, is what people hijack Jesus for. And so we have to, do you see how many layers of critical thinking there are?

Cathy: You don’t want to get someone so binary that all they do is like hate on other people or decide they’re better than other people have an understanding of why people, you know, I had a really interesting conversation with a girl this weekend, a girl in college who she was not relate. She was not raised with religion.

Cathy: And she’s been really struggling lately. And she was saying how some people in her life have kind of introduced her to some, some religion, some things, some teachings of Jesus, some Bible studies, and she’s really enjoying it. And she and I had a really good conversation about, you know, [00:25:00] it’s made her feel more grounded and my.

Cathy: Talk with her. That’s amazing. This is good. And I said, you know, and I kind of talked to her about what’s interesting is a lot of people, there’s a lot of teachers out there and they tend to have a very similar message and just keep the wider view rather than the narrow view, which is only one way. Right.

Cathy: And. He was, you know, she was already there in many ways. It wasn’t like I was giving her anything brand new, but that’s a great, interesting conversation

Todd: for sure. Um, I, part of me, I, for some reason, you, I think you said question everything or maybe Mm-Hmm. No, I didn’t. It’s just, it reminded me of a Carlin thing.

Todd: I, I haven’t, I haven’t pulled up, but it may not land the way I wanted to, so I don’t remember exactly what’s that.

Cathy: George Carlin was way ahead of his time.

Todd: Should I play it just to see what he says or no? Some,

Cathy: some of the things, I don’t know which one it is, but I know that some of the things he was saying.

Cathy: I feel very, um, obvious now that maybe we’re a little overt. Let’s just see what he says.

The question of authority. Parents never It’s [00:26:00] not important to get children to read. Children who want to read are going to read. Kids who want to learn to read are going to learn to read. Much more important to teach children to question what they read.

Children should be taught to question everything. To question everything they read, everything they hear. Children should be taught to question authority. Parents never teach their children to question authority because parents are authority figures themselves and they don’t want to undermine their own bullshit inside the household.

So they stroke the kid and the kid strokes them and they all stroke each other and they all grow up all fucked up and they come to shows.

Cathy: Okay,

Todd: that’s

it.

Cathy: Delete some of that out. Well, and here’s the thing. What’s important in that is sometimes when we say question authority, all of a sudden, everybody’s like, but then you’re disrespecting your elders and you are going against the grain.

Cathy: It’s it’s not. Go against authority. It’s like, one of the greatest conversations that, um, that I learned from Rosalind Wiseman, she’s been on our show several times, is the difference between respect and dignity. You [00:27:00] can understand that every single human being, even the ones you completely disagree with or hurt you or whatever, deserve human dignity.

Cathy: Everybody does, you know, no matter where they are and what they’ve done. Respect is a very different thing. That’s exactly. And so questioning authority doesn’t mean you’ll take away someone’s dignity. It doesn’t even mean you’ll lose respect. It just means, and if you are a parent who treats your child in such a way, That they’re angry with you all the time, or they feel like you don’t respect them, or they feel like you don’t see them.

Cathy: Then that’s good information that maybe this communication or this connection you have with your child is going to break down. And it’s not so that’s whenever we. Not just you and I, but whenever people say things like question authority, people take it to the extreme where they’re like, that means we’ll be in anarchy.

Cathy: Yeah.

Todd: They always do the black and white thing.

Cathy: Exactly. Versus the critical thinking about what that means.

Todd: Answer is almost always somewhere in between on [00:28:00] almost every

Cathy: issue. Because think about this. What if you had a coach or a teacher who was treating you inappropriately or God forbid touching you inappropriately or saying inappropriate things?

Cathy: They’re an authority figure, can’t you question that? And shouldn’t you be able to? And same thing if, you know, a grown woman or a grown man in a work situation, they may have a boss or somebody who is inappropriate with them. And yeah, that’s their authority figure, but that’s not okay. So this whole question, authority thing, it’s not just with parenting.

Cathy: It’s, and can you understand why that conversation with kids? Is so beneficial because you are, you are teaching them to engage with adults who have their best interests and to listen and to be a good, you know, have good studentship, but also giving them the space to recognize that if they feel super uncomfortable about something or that something is inherently wrong, To come to you and to talk about it and to not assume that we’re going to go, sorry, that’s an adult,

Todd: right?

Cathy: You have to respect them.

Todd: Is it premature for [00:29:00] me to talk about, uh, these guys that I connected with this weekend, or did you want to like,

Cathy: You know what, I’ll say one more thing. And then you launch into that just to kind of give some like, you know, shape to this, um, just a few things about like, You know, being an engaged citizen.

Cathy: Um, there was my friend, um, Jenny Wallace who wrote, uh, Never Enough. We had her on the show, but she posted something today that I thought was really valuable. And, uh, it’s from, she posted it, but it’s from a man named Rick Weisbord. He’s a psychologist and his quote is, make it clear that your family believes being an engaged citizen is a moral responsibility because other people’s lives and the wellbeing of our community and country depend on it.

Cathy: Like, it’s not just about you. Like I was just having a conversation with one of my girlfriends and she was, you know, frustrated because one of her kids is saying he may not vote. And I was like, And again, he may not, you know, he’s young, he’s 18. He may not, [00:30:00] but I was, we were talking about what might support him and in deciding to actually participate and tell him about other people.

Cathy: You may not feel harmed by whatever happens in this election, but here’s a group of people that are afraid and could be harmed. And do you see how this affects other people in the world? It’s not just about you.

Todd: Yeah. So said another way is flex your empathy muscles. Correct.

Cathy: Work it out. Wider perspective beyond yourself.

Cathy: And then the last thing I’ll say. Is research finds that civil, uh, civic engagement, it actually provides mental health benefits to kids because it gives them a sense of purpose and belonging. They actually feel like they have a role in their communities, in their, in their states, in their federal government.

Cathy: If they see it, if we talk about how voting doesn’t matter and what we say doesn’t matter and everything sucks anyway, you better believe kids are going to opt out of it. But if we actually have conversations in our home about the importance of staying engaged, [00:31:00] and you don’t have to know every single thing, you just need to know what’s most important to you.

Cathy: And your value system and your kids may bring things to your attention. Believe me, my kids bring things to my attention that they find to be extremely important. And they didn’t come from Todd and I,

no,

Cathy: they’re learning on their own. And so this is, this goes back and forth. So that was just, I just wanted to set that foundation.

Cathy: And now you go ahead, Todd.

Todd: So there’s so many different, uh, you know, so the election is a week from today and there’s so many different, like, it’s so curious to think about. For me to find out why somebody votes in a certain direction. Some people are worried about inflation. Some people are worried about the economy.

Todd: Some people are worried about women’s bodily autonomy. Um, and this new thing that’s kind of shown up in the last few months is, uh, that our young men are being left behind. Uh, because there are certain data points that suggest that, um, there’s not as many men in college as women, and there’s not as many job opportunities for men as women.

Todd: And I, to be Wait a [00:32:00] second. For real? Yeah.

Cathy: Not as many job opportunities for men than women?

Todd: Correct. It’s mostly blue collar. Blue collar kids who used to, young men, would go into the manufacturing. Okay. Now robots are taking, have taken over and, and a lot of thing is Getting exported out of the country.

Cathy: And the only reason I’m just stopping you there is because that’s a gendered experience. Because there are not enough jobs that men want to take. Right. There are jobs available. I’m sorry. Yeah, that’s all right.

Todd: That’s a whole nother piece, which is a different type of job. Because back 30 years ago and hundreds, Before that, um, we would go out to the factory or the field, physical labor, and there was always some security.

Todd: There’s less security now. There is an abundance of jobs available, um, that some people refer to as pink jobs, which is teachers, nurses, social workers, social workers, like This economy is dying for, uh, people to step into those jobs. Uh, [00:33:00] the problem is these young men, uh, either are uneducated or they just simply don’t want to.

Todd: That’s not a manly job. And part of what I want to do is invite men, like, I don’t know if there’s a more important job. Teaching kids more powerful job, more powerful job, making an impact in somebody’s life. So anyways, so I just find it interesting and although I do I am surrounded by people that are like minded as I, you know, have the same perspective on politics and Democrat versus Republican or Kamala versus Trump.

Todd: I do I am trying my best to, you know, we’re talking about questioning everything or be more empathic. So I was at a football game with Cathy and my daughter and some other, we were tailgating and there were three men there and I just, my world, I’m not surrounded by young men that often, so I kind of saw it as an opportunity and two of the guys were, uh, blue collar guys, one’s an electrician, one’s a welder and the other was going to college and [00:34:00] I saw it as an opportunity to, um, Ask them what their thoughts are.

Todd: What’s their viewpoint instead of, you know, mean, I didn’t want to like come tell them who to vote for. It was more of a, help me understand where you are. And what was interesting is if you would ask me going into that conversation, knowing, uh, you know, making presumptions and not being curious, I would have thought the two blue collar guys are going to vote for Trump and maybe the guy who’s college educated, uh, might vote for Kamala.

Todd: And what I found out is the two that are blue collar guys. Are not voting at all. And the college kid, and this is such a tiny sample size, but it’s, it’s,

Cathy: it’s really not even about talking about polls. It’s just about your specific experience. You got some new information, right?

Todd: Uh, and then the one college kid is voting for Trump and I asked the kid who’s voting for Trump, like, help me understand, like, what, how do you decide who to vote for and what aspects of a president do you want and kind of You know, he tried [00:35:00] his best to kind of formulate something that was meaningful.

Todd: And then he kind of stopped himself in the middle. I was like, I don’t know, my, my parents watch Fox and I just always had Fox on. So I’m just going to vote for who I think they’re voting for. And I just said, you know, my invitation is maybe you should question that a little bit and research it a little bit and look at it through other viewpoints instead of just falling into line with what your parents do.

Todd: And then the two, um, The two, uh, blue collar kids were like, well, it’s not going to make a difference. It’s one vote out of, you know, 120 million, who really cares? And, uh, it, it, I really appreciated getting to know their perspective better. And, you know, there’s no like great conclusion to the story. It was more just an example of me trying my best to understand them better.

Todd: I did tell them how I, what I thought a good leader looked like and some of the attributes of what I consider good leadership are. Without telling them who to vote for. I’m like, this is kind of what I value and prioritize. And that is [00:36:00] treating others with decency, treating others with respect. Um, viewing the world where everybody gets an equal opportunity.

Cathy: Being able to lose with dignity and not creating it. Not,

Todd: you know, the election denier thing is something that I, out of all the things that I disagree with former president Trump about, one of the main things is that the only way that he, um, Will believe the results is if he wins. And if he doesn’t win, then he won’t believe the results and he’ll challenge the results.

Todd: And I just feel like that is a very naive, ignorant perspective and it really drives me up a wall.

Cathy: Well, it’s part of, it’s part of narcissism. Like that’s the thing is, you know, I feel like I’ve been saying this for 10 years, but when you are a narcissist, you cannot believe. Anything that is about you that is negative, it’s impossible.

Cathy: Your defense system is set up in a way that you can’t allow that in. You know, I’ve, I was explaining to someone the other day about, you know, it’s literally, it’s literally like Jenga. You can’t pull a piece out or else the [00:37:00] whole. You know, the whole thing falls, it’s like a house of cards. So you can’t lose, you can’t be wrong.

Cathy: You can’t be told you’re doing something bad. You can’t, you, your system will not allow it. And the thing that sucks, you know, I think probably a lot of people listening, may listen to Dr. Romani’s podcast. She’s a narcissistic expert and you know, she will say, you know, it’s hard to even have these conversations with narcissists because they don’t go to therapy, right?

Cathy: Because, I mean. You don’t go to therapy because you never think you’re wrong. You always think it’s other people and there’s a paranoid delusion to it. Often, not always. And so you think everyone’s coming after you sound familiar. And so this is, that’s the thing is like our expectation, especially at this point, a decade in that someone’s going to act any differently, it won’t happen.

Cathy: And if you have any narcissists in your life beyond, uh, You know, people in the media or whatever, people in the political world, you know how this goes. You know, if you have a narcissist in your [00:38:00] life, you know how it goes. Like I’m repeating it on purpose because you, you end up banging your head against a wall, trying to, you know, offer something new, trying to, you know, have a conversation with critical thinking.

Cathy: It doesn’t work very well. Um, so anyway. I, I, and you know, Todd, I thought you did a beautiful job. I wasn’t in that conversation with you guys, but you didn’t tell them what to do when you came away from it and you told me about it, you said, I just asked him a bunch of questions. Like, it’s not about, you know, going in and asking them questions and saying, okay, now I’m going to fill all that void with what I think you should do.

Cathy: It’s be curious. And why I know that. There was a respect given is that when everyone was leaving, the girls and the guys were leaving and they were like, we got to go catch the bus. Cause Todd and I stayed at the tailgate and they had to go to a, another like bar crawl or something. Remember the days of like drinking, you know, or hanging out all day.

Cathy: And then you still got a whole night to go. Todd and I [00:39:00] don’t do the second half. Um, so

Todd: we’re

Cathy: one half, we’re daytime or nighttime, and they were all leaving. And this one kid out of the three, he said, well, I want to say goodbye to Todd. And they’re like, Oh, he’s at the bathroom or he’s somewhere else. So we’re going to go catch the bus.

Cathy: And he said, you guys go ahead. I’m not leaving without saying goodbye. And he stood there and waited for you. And then he shook your hand. I think you gave him a hug and said, it’s so great talking to you. And he said, I really appreciate you talking to me.

Todd: First of all, these three guys didn’t even, like, two of them knew each other really well.

Todd: And the third man, um, was not as close to the other two. But I just basically sat down saying, can we have a real conversation? Because I talked a little bit about men living and like, I want to create spaces for guys to have real conversations. Right. Like the

Cathy: way the women are. Instead of, how

Todd: drunk did you get last night?

Todd: Or what did you think about the Bears loss last night? Which we’re not going to talk about. Um. Um. And I knew that I was creating a space for [00:40:00] something to happen that they rarely get a chance to. Um, so I think that’s why it was impactful for, for him.

Cathy: Yeah. I don’t think it was because he’s like, Oh, you’ve changed me politically.

Cathy: I don’t think he’s changed. I don’t think that’s it. I think it was the conversation and the, the respect. That you were showing them and vice versa and just connection. That’s what connection is, you know, where you feel like, Oh, I felt good in that conversation. And so, you know, the ability to talk to our kids about these things, why we’re doing things like something that was really important to me when the kids were little was come with me to vote.

Cathy: Okay. Which can be tough if you’ve got a lot of little kids in a stroller, but I see a lot of women doing that. And I, and I used to do it all the time. I think last time I voted, Sky came with me. Didn’t she come with us? Cause we stood in line. It’s hard to remember. Um, four years ago we were standing in the rain.

Cathy: I’m remembering now we were outside anyway. I just have typically brought them with me and that’s just, that’s civic. [00:41:00] That’s, you know, that’s engagement as well.

Todd: Keeping them familiar with this. Like they’re going to have a seed planted in them saying, what was that thing that mom and dad did when I was eight years old?

Cathy: Yeah. And, oh, you have to stand in line. You expect it, you know, oh, go early just so you don’t, cause you, you know, I’m just saying this to everyone, regardless of what you’re going to do. Voting wise is like, go early because if you’re waiting till election day, You don’t know what’s going to go on an election day.

Cathy: There could be an electrical malfunction. You could get a migraine, like do it, you know, get it done. Um, and, or mail in your ballot. If you’re doing absentee ballot, like put it in the mailbox.

Todd: So let me ask you a question because you said you’re going to write something. And you’re like, you know what? I’d rather talk about it on the podcast.

Todd: Can you like, uh, share, was it hard to get something down on your keyboard? Or like, just talk about that.

Cathy: Um, I was struggling to, um, Talk about, I was, I was writing something and I couldn’t do it concisely. And I realized that it was coming from a place of wanting people to see things through [00:42:00] my eyes. And I know that’s hard to do.

Cathy: I think, um, for when I say it’s hard to do, I mean, it’s hard to write that way. Like I, I, um, I was feeling stuck anyway. I think all I wanted to share is for the men who listen to this podcast. And this is just me saying, you know, I’m not trying to speak for Todd, but I don’t know what you’re going to do in this election and you may have very like minded views and you’re, you’re already done voting for all I know, but I would really.

Cathy: Love for there to be a lot more thinking about how this is affecting women. And I know everybody votes, um, for, you know, their own self interest, what they think is right, what they think they need. Sometimes it’s economy, whatever it may be. But I talked to women and I don’t, I don’t want to cry because I don’t really feel like it, but I talked to women all the time and they are terrified.

Cathy: Terrified, like not sleeping, struggling, [00:43:00] having stomach issues, recognizing what could happen to them and their girls if this election goes a certain way. And I don’t, I think there’s a, uh, not everybody, but there’s this lackadaisical attitude about it’ll be fine. Everything goes back to normal. It’s always the same for you.

Cathy: Sometimes I even, you know, Todd over here has to get, he, he gets my fear often and I get even frustrated at him just being a white male prototype. I’m like, you will be fine. You will be fine. The girls and I, things will change. Things will change. And, and people say, don’t be crazy. It will change if the election goes a certain way.

Cathy: And, um, and I just want that. I know you’re probably hearing it, maybe you’re not. And if you’re not, let me be the person who says it to you. It’s scary. And it, and it sometimes makes me sad. [00:44:00] We aren’t considered. A huge priority that, you know, your mothers, your sisters, your daughters, your wives, your best friends, that you understand how terrified we are.

Cathy: And I know there’s women who vote for Trump. I, I’m not, I know them. I know some of them. So I know this is not all. I’m just telling you the women I talked to and the Gen X, the Gen Z girls I talked to are terrified. And if you want to do something, um, to support The girls that you love in your life, I would just encourage you to read more and listen and watch what happened in Madison Square Garden this weekend to read more about, uh, Project 2025 and to understand how our lives will change so dramatically.

Todd: And. I just feel like if you remove the names from the words and the behaviors, like [00:45:00] you remove, somebody said something and we don’t know if it was this presidential candidate or that presidential candidate. If you just hear the words themselves, like I would never vote for somebody who has that outlook on a certain group of people, but because the person is attached to the words, we let that person.

Todd: Not be

Cathy: Well, we create a story that that person is being, we, we allow ourselves to be influenced by the narrative that this person is spewing, which is this delusion that everybody is after them.

Yeah.

Cathy: And does everyone do a lot of people, are they scared of this person? Do they want this person to be held accountable for the crimes they’ve committed?

Cathy: Yeah. But that’s not people going after them in a, after him in a, uh, In a way to, um, what am I trying to say? Like, it’s not inappropriate that people are saying these things or saying, you committed these criminal acts. We’re not going after you. This is just what happened. And you need to be held [00:46:00] accountable regardless of who you are.

Cathy: And that’s another scary thing that the Supreme Court made a decision that if you do something as a president, um, and it’s, you’re doing it in your presidential duties, then you can’t be held accountable. Accountable for it. You’re, you’re not, you know, whatever ends up happening, you can’t be indicted for that.

Cathy: Even

Todd: though the rest of us live in a world of accountability.

Cathy: Correct. So there’s no guardrails here. So there is just a, and again, I’m just focusing on women’s issues. If you want to go through all the issues, You know, that concern me as far as the world and children and gun laws and, you know, inflation and all these things.

Cathy: Like, I’ll go, I’ll talk economy with you. I’ll talk about it. Let’s put up there two, you know, economic positions against each other and tell me what you think. Let’s talk about it. I can do it. Um, and so the, I’m just, I just needed to do this before the election and then next week, you know, we’ll, we’re going to move on and, you know, I’ll actually be gone next week, Todd, because I’m actually going to be canvassing in Michigan.

Todd: Yeah. So next week [00:47:00] podcast will be pre recorded. So we will not, we will not know anything. And honestly, we probably won’t know anything for a while after the election is over.

Cathy: Yeah. And, um, you know, let’s just this. And so this, you know, what we’re talking about here is about. It’s about the election because it’s a week away, but it’s also about overall, even when we get a month past this or wherever we end up is having conversations with our kids as they get older about how to be an involved citizen, not just for every four years of voting.

Cathy: Um, and really it should be every two years, right? You know, we want them to do midterms as well, but understanding what’s going on in your community, understanding what people are saying, school boards, that’s school boards are huge, you know, like that’s, what’s being decided for your school. Um, you know, it’s, it’s having some investment in where you live.

Cathy: And, and like I said, this builds. A child and teen and young adult sense of belonging and connection and [00:48:00] their desire to recognize or their desire to participate, and then in turn, recognize that they have an impact,

right?

Cathy: We don’t want to disengage them from the world. We want to engage them with the world.

Todd: So

Cathy: anyway, that’s it for me.

Todd: Um, so we have this thing called Team Zen. It’s a, it’s a community of love. Parents that get support, support from Cathy and I, support from each other. We do the zoom calls a couple of times a month. We happen to be having one, uh, the Thursday after the election, ZenTalk 194. We also have these micro communities, loved ones with dealing with addiction.

Todd: You have something that you just scheduled on our calendar ZenTalk with Chase Light.

Cathy: Yeah. This is so cool, everybody. So we’re having this ZenTalk that I think we’re going to have as a podcast. So hopefully you’ll be able to hear it. But you should come anyway to the Zen talk. Um, it’s Chase Light is an organization that was created by students in Hinsdale high school.

Cathy: Okay. So we’re from Elmhurst and Hinsdale is just like 20 minutes [00:49:00] away. It’s a Western suburb of Chicago. And they made it, they, they created Chase Light as a, um, a service for their peers, so they could talk about mental health and offer connection and support and resources for their students. To each other because they found that, you know, Hinstale is, it’s a good school district.

Cathy: There’s a lot of money in that school district. There’s a lot of support in many ways, but there’s also that overachievement aspect. There’s, which tends to show up in schools, you know, where there’s like a lot of, you know, anxiety and kids feeling like they need to constantly achieve and not knowing how to, uh, You know, have a sense of calm or peace or, you know, not feel like all they are, are their grades.

Cathy: And there’s many other things they talk about as well, but I know that was one of the big aspects. And they started to lean on each other and they created this, you know, group called Chase Light. So we are going to talk with a bunch of teenagers about their, you know, what their needs are and what kind of [00:50:00] offerings You know, they, they, and I met them as several of them at the NAMI walk this year, which is why, you know, that was when we started talking about having them on Team Zen.

Cathy: So they do things like that, you know, they focus on, you know, mental health as far as Chicagoland goes and they’re getting involved in other aspects of NAMI. And um, so I’m just really proud of them. I think it’s really cool. And talk about engagement. Yeah. Right. They’re like, Hey, we’re not getting our needs met.

Cathy: Let’s create something. Let’s do something.

Todd: Zedcon 25, um, January 24th, 25th. Get your

Cathy: tickets!

Todd: Oakbrook Hills. Good talk. Good fun and good music. You know it. Cathy will be introducing, uh, her fifth book. Fifth? Is that right? Sure.

Cathy: I just like to talk about the one I’m on. One,

Todd: two, living what you want your kids to learn.

Todd: Zen parenting. Yeah, this is number five. Restoring our girls. How real conversations shape our daughters lives. Help them with teen challenges and remind them that they matter. So it’s going to be an [00:51:00] awesome two days. Hopefully you join us. Uh, the, all the links to Team Zen and the conference are below. I also want to say thanks to Jeremy Kraft.

Todd: He has a painting and remodeling pro, uh, company. He’s been our support guy. Oh, so for, let’s say the last 788 podcasts And he’s a bald head of beauty, painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area, 630 956 1800. And, uh, we’ve got some other stuff, but let’s just stop there. Um, keep trucking everybody.

Todd: I don’t know. And civil engagement. Keep trucking.