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Todd: Welcome back to yet another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is episode number 776. Why listen to Zen Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding. And always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s well being is a parent’s well being. Self understanding on today’s show, we’re gonna be anxiety heavy, hopefully not, hopefully not.
Todd: Um, and it’s ha, it’s because you did as in parenting moment on Friday about anxiety. Yeah. So we’re gonna talk about that. But first I put into chat GPT, the significance of the number 7, 7, 6. ’cause this is episode 7, 7, 6.
Cathy: Next week is 7, [00:01:00] 7, 7. That’ll be fun. That’s more important. I know. Why are we doing the significance of 776?
Cathy: I just got
Todd: curious and it turns out there’s really not that much significant about 776.
Cathy: Well look up 7777, I bet there is because those are my, it’s my favorite number. I’ll do that next week.
Todd: One interesting thing that ChatGPT says is interesting about Uh, 7 76. It says, it’s also interesting that 7 76 is the sum of three consecutive prime numbers.
Todd: 251, 257 and 268.
Cathy: Sounds like you are, you chat GPT
Todd: Does that, does that, is that interesting? Well, I don’t think chat, GPT knows what’s interesting.
Cathy: Okay. It may not be Well, but it’s a computer. It’s like a brainiac like, to, to the computer. It’s not real. So I don’t wanna talk about like it’s a thing, but it thinks that’s.
Cathy: It’s important. It thinks that that’s interesting. Well, what about the fact that, about our country in 1776?
Todd: Yes, but that would be cheating [00:02:00] because 776 and 17, there’s, we’re missing a one. When we get to podcast number 1, 776, then we’re on to something. I
Cathy: think I, will I be like, 62 by that time. I just turned 53.
Todd: Let’s see. We’ve been doing this show for 14 years. We’d have to, uh, do it probably another 20 years. So you would be 73.
Cathy: Hey, I will still have things to say at 73.
Todd: Sweetie, you’re going to have things to say until you’re done speaking. That’s right, man. Don’t, don’t count me out. Um, quick thing. Yeah. Um, Men Living is hosting something this Saturday.
Todd: It’s called Male Menopause. The three obstacles midlife men face and how to overcome them. It’s free. It’s, uh, being delivered by You guys
Cathy: want all of our things.
Todd: What do you mean? Menopause? Menopause
Cathy: is our thing. I figured
Todd: that would, that would, that would catch ya. Um, And it’s being run by a guy named Dr.
Todd: Jed Diamond. He’s written 17 books. He’s a best selling author. Give
Cathy: me, uh, uh, [00:03:00] like, what you mean by male menopause.
Todd: Well, I Like testosterone
Cathy: levels drop.
Todd: It’s, it’s a lot of that. Like, what hap One, I, he was just interviewed by Chris and Sean. And, um, cause a lot of people are like, Well, there is no male menopause.
Todd: Mm hmm. And what he says is, Do you agree that, uh, women go through puberty? Answer is yes. Do you agree that men go through puberty? Answer is yes. And then the opposite of puberty is when everything kind of unfolds, right? So, I think what it means is that us guys have a drop in testosterone, obviously, drop in libido, and I don’t know if those two things are the same.
Todd: Um, erectile dysfunction. Sure. Um, and then we are more prone to, I think, um,
Cathy: But that’s not everybody. Right? Just like for women, it’s not, not everybody has the same symptoms. That’s why I’m taking the course. I do not know. Well, and you know, I struggle on this show sometimes because I, I am not in any way questioning Jed Diamond or you or what Men Living is doing because I [00:04:00] love what you guys do.
Cathy: I think there’s just always this weird place where I have a hard time giving you credit and props for what you’re doing, what you’re doing and also recognizing that nobody has been researching or talking about female menopause for generations and generations. And it’s just interesting. So it’s like one of these things where I’m like, I want, it’s not about we can, it’s only us and not you.
Cathy: But it’s also, you know, it’s like women were dealing with loneliness and men are dealing with loneliness. And when, you know what I mean? Like it’s out, there’s, it’s just a, do you understand that I’m having a hard time talking about it and that I’m not necessarily agreeing with myself?
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: There’s parts, you know, there’s a part of like, we could do a whole podcast on the term male menopause.
Todd: Right. Yes.
Cathy: And, and I, and I don’t. I’m not disparaging or saying it’s not true. It’s just such an interesting thing because right now female menopause is so necessarily on the front lines and it’s something we need to focus on because women have not been researched. Uh, you know, [00:05:00] things have been, um, you know, hormonal therapy was taken away from us for a while because of a faulty, you know, research project we have.
Cathy: a lot of needs right now as far as being women who are pre menopausal or perimenopausal or menopausal. And so it’s just funny to shift gears to men are going through menopause.
Todd: Sure. And let me just be clear. I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman or a woman going through menopause, but if you’re giving me a choice between the impact of men as they age out of their whatever their middle of their life, right.
Todd: Um, it’s easier for us. I’m pretty sure. Yeah. So it’s not. either or, it’s a both and. And I would say that what happens in the female body is probably much more significant than the men’s bodies.
Cathy: Well, it’s definitely a significant shift. I mean, like, and it definitely is a huge change, which is we have periods our whole lives and then we don’t and not having that kind of [00:06:00] cycle in our body shifts everything as far as the way our cells react and everything.
Cathy: So there is enough room for all of us to have. We can all go through menopause.
Todd: Well, this is, yeah, this is the male menopause. I understand.
Cathy: I understand. But what I’m saying is that when I get that feeling in my head of like, where I want to kind of like make fun, I really don’t want to make fun. I want there to be space for everybody.
Cathy: But I also think it’s important to talk about why sometimes women have that initial reaction. And it’s because we just started talking about female menopause. You know what I mean? I mean, it’s literally in the last couple of years. Right. So I just, I want to keep us front and center. You know what I mean?
Todd: Yes. And I’m, I’m happy to run a thing on female menopause too. If you know of a teacher who.
Cathy: Well, I do. I actually, uh, I was emailing with Dr. Marie Claire’s team. Uh, she’s written a book. She’s everywhere. And she’s kind of, um. We should get her on for a Zen talk or something. We are, we’re [00:07:00] in the process, but she just put out a book and she just had a huge tour and she’s, you know, doing back to back to back things and so doing podcasts is she, she’s still traveling.
Cathy: Got it. So it, so hopefully it’s coming. Once things settle
Todd: down for her, we’ll get her on. In the meantime, uh, we got something for the guys this Saturday.
Cathy: Yes. And I’m very supportive of
Todd: that. Okay. Uh. And
Cathy: then aren’t we also teaching a class about couple,
Todd: like noticing? Yes. August 26th. Yeah. It’s a Team Zen slash Men Living thing.
Todd: Okay. At 7pm central. Uh. All the links for both of these opportunities are going to be right below the description of this podcast in the show notes.
Cathy: And the class we’re teaching is, is it’s about, uh, I can’t remember what we titled it, but Todd and I were having a talk about what can sometimes go wrong in couplehood and invisible labor and emotional labor and cognitive labor.
Cathy: And just about that women are really trained to notice and the importance of noticing and how sometimes when men are like, just give me a list, I’ll do this. Take, you [00:08:00] know, just tell me what to do, the thing that they could focus on or work on is noticing, paying attention. And I actually said to you, um, yesterday when we were at brunch, I pointed out something where I said that was, I really appreciate that you noticed that.
Cathy: And do you remember what it was?
Todd: Yeah, the waitress didn’t hear Skylar.
Cathy: Right. And that’s something normally I would do. I would be like, so my daughter was ordering and she said kind of under her breath something about getting fruit. And I was on the same side of her. So I couldn’t, I wasn’t really listening to her.
Cathy: I couldn’t see her. And Todd was like, I’m not sure if you picked up on that last thing that my daughter said, but she wanted this. Now, I know you were like, big deal, no big deal. But that is, and that is noticing, that’s paying attention to other people besides you and making sure that people’s needs are being met.
Cathy: Yeah. And that, that goes a really long way with our kids, that goes a really long way with your partner to note, like, instead of being like, Oh, it’s someone else’s job to do the garbage or the garbage magically goes out to the curb. You actually do it. You, [00:09:00] you take care of it and you dump it upstairs. You dump the garbage, you go to the grocery store, you know, these things that you notice are happening.
Yeah.
Cathy: And I think a lot of times in families there is, as we would say, a magic fairy. where people don’t really notice that toilet paper is always available. They just expect it to be.
Todd: Yeah. Well, thanks for, uh, catching that. Yeah. And, you know, hopefully there’ll be more where that came from.
Cathy: Yeah. And that’s not the only, it’s not like it’s the only time you’ve ever done it.
Cathy: I just pay attention. So I notice, and then I pay attention when others notice. Do you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s, it’s nice. It’s like, I think, you know, I’m saying this to all genders, like, I think people appreciate that more than you know, you know, and not noticing things like, Oh, you have new earrings.
Cathy: That’s nice, but that’s like, just stuff more like I’m noticing that you’ve seemed, um, more, you know, you I’ve noticed you’ve told me you’re tired for the last couple of days. Do you need any help? Or, um, I’m noticing that you have a lot of work to do. Is there any way I can help? Like, [00:10:00] I think in a partnership and when we’re raising kids, That’s so appreciated.
Cathy: Right. And I don’t think, and again, I’m, I’m generalizing here and you tell me if I’m wrong, but I don’t know if men are as practiced in noticing those things.
Todd: If you’ve been listening to this podcast, you would know, we all know the answer to the question. The answer is no.
Cathy: Yes. Well, and I always want to just be as general as possible because I don’t want people making assumptions about me.
Cathy: So I don’t make assumptions about.
Todd: We, sometimes that’s their generalization.
Cathy: Generalization.
Todd: There’s, there’s. In both directions. All the time. Correct. Okay. I’m trying to find a podcast that we did on noticing. Oh, it’s called Balancing Cognitive Labor, Episode 774. So maybe as a preview to joining us on Monday night, August 26th, you’ll listen to that podcast and say, Hey, Todd, I, Todd and Kathy, I like what you said here, but I disagree there.
Todd: It’s kind of, it’d be a nice preview for them. So they can go to a link below to join. Uh, yeah, I’ll just, I mean, it’s podcast 774, but I’ll throw that in the show. No, I mean to register for this class. That’ll be it. That’ll be it. [00:11:00] Okay. Uh, and it’s all free. Um, okay. So you wrote a Zen Parenting moment called Acknowledging Anxiety.
Todd: You talked about Pedro Pascal. Who’s Pedro Pascal?
Cathy: He’s
Todd: an actor that
Cathy: I really like. And what is he from? Um, let’s see, you probably know him from the Mandalorian, or you may know him from the, what’s the one called? Not the rest of us. The something. The Last of Us. The Last of Us. I didn’t watch that. I’m not big on dystopian shows.
Cathy: Um, uh, you may know him from that movie with Nicolas Cage, the one where Nicolas Cage is playing himself. Um, I don’t know that. Oh really? No. Um, he’s, he’s all over the place and he’s going to be, um, in the new, um, The Four. It’s like the Marvel of The Four. It’s like, um, what are they called? Do you remember, do you, you don’t know much about Marvel, do you?
Cathy: I don’t. Yeah, he’s like Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four, that’s it. And it’s him, it’s all these [00:12:00] great people that they’ve picked to be in the Marvel Final Four. Anyway, I’m calling it the Final Four. That’s basketball. The Fantastic Four. I talked about him because he was doing, he was at Comic Con, Comic Con, and I saw this little clip of him grabbing Vanessa Kirby, who’s also in the Fantastic Four, grabbing her hand, like kind of touching the back of her arm, and then she grabs his hand, and I showed it to Todd because I’m like, you know, Pedro Pascal talks about his anxiety and I’m wondering if he was feeling anxious in that moment and was like, will you hold my hand?
Cathy: Now, we don’t know if that’s true. Sure. I just the way it it was almost like Vanessa Kirby knew exactly what he needed Yeah, and just grabbed his hand Because last year when he was doing, um, his, the same kind of rounds for The Last of Us, he did so much press and he would always keep his hand right below his chest during, like, photo shoots.[00:13:00]
Cathy: And he would do that because he said, we can’t. You know, he was caught on camera, him telling his co star, you know why I put my hand there? It’s because that’s where my anxiety is. And so there’s pictures of him everywhere with his hand over his anxiety. So let’s just pause there
Todd: because this is something I try to help men with.
Todd: The reason I try to help men with it is because I’m not very good at it. Because usually when I’m feeling anxious, it’s a thought in my head. What Pedro is teaching us, and many other people are teaching us, is that most of the time, our emotions, if we can tune into our body. are showing up somewhere in our body.
Todd: Anger, fear, sadness, joy in our cheeks, in our hands, in our, in our jaw, in our belly, in our heart. And what Pedro does is he notices the anxiety. I don’t know if it starts with his body or if he starts having anxious thoughts, but then he does, he takes even the next step and he puts his hand on it to kind of calm himself.
Todd: And these are all things that are so foreign to most people.
And
Todd: I just think, I like, I want to [00:14:00] underline this twice. Like the fact that this guy even notices that he’s anxious. Cause most of us are just reacting from anxiety and not even knowing we’re anxious. He notices he’s anxious. He locates it in his body.
Todd: He puts his hand there to remind himself that he’s okay and soothes himself. So I just think it’s super important, um, for all human beings, but mostly for me. Not mostly, but especially guys who are not very good at emotional intelligence or body intelligence. So I just wanted to make that very clear.
Cathy: Well, I think something that’s interesting about that is there’s many layers and levels, right? Because I think sometimes, um, when we’re learning this about, you know, understanding, you somatics, which is like, The feelings in the body that are connected to the feelings that we’re talking about in the mind, like, you know, making that mind body connection, is that sometimes we can become [00:15:00] very rote about it, and we can say, oh, when I feel anxious, I feel it in my stomach, period, when really, anxiety is can show up in many places in your body and every single situation, situation could be different.
Cathy: So to Todd’s point, there are times when I am experiencing anxiety and I feel it in my chest. It’s like a breathing thing. And then there are times when I feel anxiety and I feel it in my stomach. And it’s more of like an underlying, like something could go wrong. I’m worried. I’m afraid. It’s more like a fear.
Cathy: And then anxiety can also, I like your description of being in the jaw, like where you feel really clenched up. Yeah. You don’t even know your jaw
Todd: is clenched. And then you, all of a sudden you get a headache because you’ve been, you’re, you’ve been clenching your teeth so much. And if we can just practice noticing where feelings show up in our body, we can like, sometimes I’ll even like massage my cheekbones just to kind of get my jaw muscles to relax a little bit.
Todd: But even that requires discipline, because most of the time, I’m not even aware that I’m clenching my [00:16:00] jaw.
Cathy: Yeah, you know, for me, like my, one of my practices when I’m driving is to recognize how my thighs are, are really like, I’m like really holding my legs really tight. And then when I release, how relaxing it is for my entire body.
Cathy: And it’s not, and again, it’s not something, if you’re in your head and you’re thinking constantly, you don’t have enough brain space to recognize what’s going on in your body. You literally have to switch gears and say, I’m going to notice what’s going on in my body right now. Cause guess what happens after like, I, you know, I released those muscles in my legs.
Cathy: I go back to thinking and those muscles tighten up again. Like I have to, you know, um, every once in a while, like go back and be like, okay, relax, release, release, take a breath. I mean, this is why when people say, you know, relax, take a breath, taking a breath is a natural release of all the muscles in your body.
Cathy: So it gives you like a break. Um, you know, it’s not just about calming [00:17:00] the mind. It’s not just about helping the lungs. It gives all of your muscles a break.
Todd: So just like for fun right now, people are cleaning the kitchen, listening in the car, whatever. Just take a breath and just notice if anything is going on in your body.
Todd: I don’t know. I’m not noticing anything.
Cathy: Well, I, it’s funny. I notice I, I always, when I’m podcasting, for some reason, I always put one leg up on the chair. Like I fold, I I’m more comfortable with my legs folded back and. I realized my leg had been hurting this whole time.
Todd: That’s so interesting. And I didn’t
Cathy: know
Todd: it.
Todd: I didn’t notice anything until you just said that. And I’m realizing my legs are crossed in a kind of constricted way. Yeah. So now I’m just kind of uncrossing my legs, like a little more relaxed. Yeah. So, and it’s kind of to your point, like our brain will get distracted and move into thought really quickly.
Todd: So it’s like the more that. I can pause, take a breath, and try to notice, and half the time I don’t notice [00:18:00] anything, but at least I’m trying to notice.
Cathy: You’re trying to pay attention. I think, you know, there are many reasons that people our age get bruises. Some of it is age, etc. But I also think sometimes we just don’t even feel what we’re doing.
Cathy: I think we run into things. I think we do exactly what I was doing where my leg’s in an uncomfortable position. I don’t move it. Um, I, you know, bonk my knee somewhere. I don’t. I don’t think about it. I don’t stop. And we like end up with a lot of like wounds. And how many times has someone been like, where did that come from?
Cathy: Well, especially I remember in
Todd: college after a long
Cathy: weekend. Well, that’s kind of
Todd: different. I know, but even so, like it would just be worse. And I’d be like, I’d be, I’d have a scab or like I’d have a open wound. I’m like, and it’s not like I was blackout drunk. It’s just your adrenaline from everything from being 22.
Cathy: And you’re not paying, you’re more in your head than you are in your body. And so you’re not feeling, interestingly enough, you’re not feeling that pain, which is, you know, these are why things are paradoxical and interesting because like [00:19:00] part of, you know, I started doing a lot of mindfulness work because of migraines.
Cathy: And part of understanding mindfulness and chronic pain is that you can pull some attention. Away from the painful areas in your brain where you can be more mindful and relax because sometimes we have pain because of the pain Yeah, right. We’re it which I can definitely relate to
Todd: second arrow, right?
Todd: Correct
Cathy: the second like where it’s like I Know a headaches coming on and then I know it’s gonna get bad and I feel bad about how it’s gonna feel bad And then all of a sudden it hurts and I’m like, you know, like it’s all this you know, all these layers. And so mindfulness is like relaxing all of that.
Cathy: So you, you know, and again, I’m making that sound simple, but it’s a process of breathing and pulling some energy away from that space. So it’s interesting, like we’re kind of, depending on what’s going on, you utilize one or the other. Either you go toward, which is, I want to recognize what my body is feeling, or you can sometimes [00:20:00] breathe and pull away from that pain.
Todd: Um, we just, uh, skipped over that. I think it’s such a wonderful lesson. I don’t think we’ve talked about it much on this podcast, but the idea of the first arrow and the second arrow. And if you want to explain it, fine. I just pulled it up on chat GPT to help me out. But, um, Can you, can you just like open that up a little bit?
Todd: The
Cathy: way that I think about the first arrow and the second arrow is the first arrow is the actual experience, or if we’re going to be very literal, like the pain, the, the actual thing that
Todd: Like you get an arrow that’s in your In your arm,
Cathy: and that That is, there’s an arrow in your arm. The second arrow is the thinking about that arrow in your arm and the, what that could mean and what comes next and fear for the future.
Cathy: So it’s the same thing with, you know, an experience like I, something I, you know, something that is important to understand about trauma is a lot of times people will experience something. For example, my girls had an experience this weekend all together that they hadn’t had before. It was kind [00:21:00] of like a scary experience.
Cathy: And while they were in it, they were fine, right? They managed it. They got through it. They were, they weren’t unsafe. It was just something they had never experienced before. And then the next day they started to think about it. And they were like, Oh my gosh, I’ve never experienced that before. And it was this, and I knew that they needed a few times to talk it through.
Cathy: Like I was like, release the energy that
Todd: they had to hold on to,
Cathy: like, we can say to people, but in the moment you were fine, you managed to find it’s not about it’s trauma is definitely a second arrow experience where, and it’s not our fault. It’s not something where we’re like, we’re doing it. The body holds it.
Cathy: The body was clenched and scared and then all of a sudden it’s releasing and all this energy is, we’re like, Oh my gosh. So that’s the way I would explain the second. So
Todd: we’re going to talk a little bit about anxiety, but I want to play the part in Inside Out part two where anxiety shows up.
Okay.
Todd: You okay with that?
Todd: All right.
Who made the console orange?
Todd: Do I look
[00:22:00] orange? I didn’t touch it. Orange is not my color. Hello everybody! Oh my gosh, I am just such a huge fan of yours and now here I am meeting you face to face. Okay, how can I help? Um, I can take notes, get coffee, manage your calendar, walk your dog, carry your things, watch you sleep.
Wow, you have a lot of energy. Maybe you could just stay in one place? Anything. Just call my name and I’m here for you. Okay. Love that. And what’s your name again? Oh, I’m sorry. I can get ahead of myself. I’m anxiety. I’m one of Riley’s new emotions and we are just super jazzed to be here. Where can I put my stuff?
What do you mean we?
Todd: All right. So there’s one other clip I want to play by the end of the show, which talks a little bit about, um, is, is anxiety the character in Inside Out 2. Uh, and it’s called Anxiety’s Plan for the Future. So.
Cathy: Well, and also she says, what do you mean we? And with anxiety comes embarrassment.
Cathy: Yeah. Embarrassment’s behind. Boredom. Um, and nostalgia, but they don’t let her in. [00:23:00] Grandma nostalgia.
Todd: Yeah. So, um, so what I’m hoping to do for, cause anxiety, like I just did a search on Team Zen circle and I just typed it. One thing cool about Team Zen is That’s our
Cathy: virtual community.
Todd: If you want to Search by topic, you can do that, and I counted 11 different, go ahead, sweetie.
Cathy: We’ll stop for a second, because you’re, you’re, the way you just said that is like, people understand what that means. If you are part of Team Zen, you can, in our app that’s on our phone and, on your phone and also on the, on your computer, is we do all these Zen Talks that are like other podcasts. And so they’re live Q& A, and so it’s like a whole nother podcast that we do, but you have to be a part of our virtual community.
Cathy: So, what Todd is saying is, he go, he went to that podcast In Team Zen, typed anxiety and how many times does
Todd: it show up? And what’s nice is it filters both the podcast and the Zen talk. Oh, it does both. And I didn’t even get all the way through it, but we’ve done 11 podcasts that have anxiety in the title.
Todd: Those are Zen [00:24:00] parenting podcasts. I’m surprised it’s not
Cathy: more.
Todd: Well, I, I got, I ran out of time. Oh, got it. I’m sure there’s more. And we have, 5, 10, 50, 16 different Zen talks.
Yeah.
Todd: Where we talk about anxiety. Mm-Hmm. . So it’s such a, um, big , big emotion. It’s, it’s almost surprising that inside out people saved it for the second movie because it’s such a, um, predominant.
Todd: Like that’s all we ever hear about Kings, kids, kids in anxiety. And what I’m hoping we do. is reframe it a little bit and know that it’s not this big scary thing. And so anyways.
Cathy: Well, and what I will say is that, um, there are, there are kids, younger kids who experience anxiety. It’s not as if it only shows up at a certain time.
Cathy: Like there are very young kids that, that can feel anxiety. And a lot of times it’s connected to, you know, there’s all these fine lines between anxiety and fear and all the, you know, worry. Like they all have their own definition, but they’re all kind of from the same place. Yeah. Um, even embarrassment is part of [00:25:00] that.
Cathy: Um, but the, there is this change in the brain that happens during puberty where you become much more aware of your awareness and people’s awareness of you, which in, which will naturally cause more anxiety because you’re aware that people are aware and you are aware. of people’s awareness of you.
Yeah.
It’s
Cathy: like all these layers. Like I, um, in my book, I, I write about how girls are so hyper focused on themselves. Not innate. Boys are too, I’m sure. But again, my book is just about girls. The hyper focus of if I wear this sock, everyone will notice and it will be a problem. Um, if I don’t have this earring, you know, there’s, they believe people see all these things and nobody is seeing that.
Cathy: Now they may have had an experience where someone decided to be a jerk and point certain things out, but 99 percent of the population is not paying attention to the color of your sock. They don’t care. You know [00:26:00] why? Because they’re hyper focused on themselves.
Todd: Can I read a few of your words from the parenting moment?
Todd: Um, you say, to calm my anxiety, I tend to close my eyes and breathe. A little like Olympian Stephen, whatever his last name is, waiting for three hours to get on the pommel horse. Do you want to talk a little bit about Stephen? He
Cathy: tries saying his name. Ned
Todd: Nedorachick. Nedorachick.
Cathy: Do you think?
Todd: I have no idea.
Todd: Um. Yeah. So, which is this awesome nerdy guy who just got the bronze medal in pummel horse.
Cathy: Yeah. Well, he’s, some say nerdy, some say Clark Kent. We, you know, it depends on your tastes. He’s just a, a wonderful gymnast from the USA, um, who is, that’s like Todd said, pummel horse. And when they were doing the team.
Cathy: Um, you know, because there’s all sorts of different stages of gymnastics, he, he had to wait three hours and sit and wait till it was his time to go. [00:27:00] So he basically sat on a bench with his head laid back, breathing with his eyes closed. And, and I just was in awe. I was like, that’s really hard. And Simone Biles has to do that as well in her, like, cause she always goes last when they’re doing floor or whatever, but I don’t think she’s had to wait three hours.
Cathy: And so he then, you know, he
Todd: did a little eye closing and a little breathing. You also say, I also make it a point to tell my husband, my husband or whoever I’m with that I’m feeling anxious. So wouldn’t be like, well, yeah, that’s a good idea. No. And I’m like, that is a super. important piece as we try to help our children deal with their anxiety.
Todd: One is we got to be able to model ourselves. How do we deal with our own anxiety? Because this is not just kids that have it. Human beings have it, right? So, um, the first step is just to tell somebody instead of keeping it inside. Um, and does that come naturally to you that you’ve shared or is it something that it takes, requires discipline?
Cathy: Uh, it comes very naturally [00:28:00] when I understand I’m feeling anxiety, but sometimes I’m feeling annoyed. or nervous about something and I haven’t put all the pieces together that I’m anxious about it. So I would say 75 percent of the time I totally know I’m anxious and I can, I have no problem sharing that I feel anxious about something.
Cathy: I’m very comfortable with that part of myself, but sometimes I’m not sure that’s what it is. Well,
Todd: and I would say we got these mirror neurons, right? So when my daughter’s feeling anxious, it would be very easy for me to be like, well, that’s her thing and not mine. But usually when my daughter’s feeling anxious, there’s, There’s something happening in me where I start feeling anxious, right?
Todd: So the first one is just to own our, instead of telling our kids to take a breath, best idea is probably for us to take a breath first and then maybe have our kids do it. You say that I’ve found the best way to help my daughters when they’re feeling anxious is to acknowledge it without telling them. If they say they’re feeling anxious, responding with, of course you are, or that’s to be expected, normalizes the experience.
Todd: [00:29:00] Anything you want to add to that?
Cathy: Just that I say it a lot. I just say, you know, I’m feeling really, you know, they have different words. Some of them say anxious. Sometimes they say I’m feeling really nervous. Sometimes they’re like, I’m nervous sighted, which is nervous and excited. Sometimes they’re like, I’m scared.
Cathy: And I’m like, of course you are. Like, I don’t want them to spend any energy. Defending why they feel the way they do. Not only is that a waste of their energy, but I think it puts them in a bad mood, and it also makes them question themselves, and also makes them question why they’re telling me. And, and I, I just want them to know, you know, it’s fine.
Todd: And one of the things that you don’t want to do is say, you don’t need to feel anxious. Right. Or forcing someone to explain why they feel anxious. It’s usually counterproductive. So
Cathy: yeah. Like to say when your kid comes to you and says, I’m so anxious or I’m so scared or I’m so worried to say, why would you be worried?
Cathy: What you’re forcing them to do is not only to [00:30:00] explain to you all these feelings, but to defend their position. And now when they’re very little, I can see me saying, Oh, you know, I, I can see that coming out in a very empathetic way. Again, I don’t want to become too dogmatic about you have to use these exact words, but I think what you don’t want to do is in some way insinuate that what your kid is feeling is wrong or that they need to somehow defend their position to you because then that’s you judging.
Cathy: If they come to you and say I’m scared and you say, Oh, you know, tell me about like, maybe, you know, you don’t say to be expected. I say that with anxiety because I feel like anything we do that’s new, even if it’s fun can be, can bring up anxiety. And so I’m like, well, of course you do, you know, that’s what happens in our body that gets us ready.
Cathy: Right. Um, But just to be like, oh, tell me about that, that’s, that’s all you got to say.
Todd: So I think when we’re talking about anxiety, it is, there’s this pendulum, right? There’s healthy anxiety and then there’s debilitating anxiety. [00:31:00] And um, the, when I want to talk, so healthy anxiety, would you care to name some of the positive attributes of having a healthy anxiety or?
Cathy: Yeah. Um, I mean, again, I think in Todd’s going to explain this and the only way to do it is to have some specific language around it, but there’s so much sway in here. Like when something is called healthy versus dysfunctional, you know, there’s so much in between, but I think what he’s trying to say is the, is the kind of anxiety that is to be expected and helpful is when we wake up really quick and we realize we have a test that day.
Cathy: We’re like, Oh my gosh, I have to now I have more adrenaline to go do what I need to do. And I need to, you know, get my notes and ask for help and go eat breakfast. And, you know, it like encourages that kind of anxiety encourages us to get going or The same kind of thing. We sit down for a test and we’re anxious about it, but we’re more wide awake, you know, like it’s helping us get through it or helps your mind focus the obvious kind of anxiety.
Cathy: [00:32:00] There’s we’re crossing the street and a car is coming and we run. We’re like, and that’s not necessarily anxiety. That’s more fear, but it’s the same kind of thing. That’s like a healthy response to something that could happen.
Todd: Well, when one of our kids does speech and she does it really, really well, but when she first started, um, I was always like, yeah, you’re feeling nervous.
Todd: That’s, you’re supposed to be. And it helps, the nervousness reduces distraction and allows you to focus even more intensely. So that’s what I, cause you know, I get up and speak in front of groups from time to time and I’m like, Oh, I’m really nervous. Like, and then I, then I remind myself like, Oh, that’s a good thing.
Cathy: Oh, yeah. I like feeling nervous before I speak because that’s the energy I need. Like, I remember reading, I think I was, or maybe I was listening to an interview with Jane Fonda, but she said her dad, Henry Fonda, used to, before he’d go on stage, would throw up every time, even to the point when he was like in his late 70s and 80s.
Cathy: And, you know, I don’t necessarily think we need to do that. You know, it’s [00:33:00] not like I’m promoting that, but her point in saying it was, we all. have, you know, even if we’ve done something our whole lives, our body has a reaction. And I, I think the reason why, you know, when anxiety shows up and inside out too, that all these other emotions come with it and, you know, it’s, it’s not, anxiety just doesn’t work alone is there’s all this desire around anxiety.
Cathy: If we’re anxious about something, it’s because we want to do something well. It’s because we don’t want to be embarrassed. It’s because we want to fit in. It’s because we want to be good at something. Like, I don’t, you know, when I’m thinking about like gardening, I’m, I love gardening, but I’m not anxious about it because nobody’s looking at my garden and choosing if it’s good or not.
Cathy: When I’m writing a book, there are times when I’m feeling anxious because I’m like, people are going to read this and tell me how they feel about it. So I don’t. you know, there’s depending, anxiety can also tell us what’s meaningful to us.
Todd: Yeah. Can I play the other Inside Out clip? Sure. It’s called Anxiety’s Plan for the Future Scene.
Todd: I [00:34:00] think it might reframe it really pretty well for us.
We all have a job to do. You make Riley happy. Sadness makes her sad. Fear protects her from the scary stuff she can see. And my job is to protect her from the scary stuff she can’t see. I plan for the future. Oh, I can show you. You’re gonna love this.
Oh, I was using that as a cup holder. Okay, so my team has run all the data and we’re looking at the following likely scenarios. First, we don’t take this camp seriously and we goof off with Bree and Grace. Riley looks really uncool in front of Val. She fails to impress the coach, does not become a firehawk, and finally arrives at high school.
She has no one. She eats alone and only the teachers know her name.
Todd: Okay, you and I are gonna be friends.
Oh, this is a sad story. It’s a ridiculous story. Look, again, love the energy.
Todd: All right. So just some future
Cathy: I love that fear is like,
Todd: we’re gonna be friends. Yeah. I kind of wish it was Bill Hader though.
Todd: Or
Cathy: was that anger?
Todd: No, that was, that was fear.
Cathy: Okay. But it’s [00:35:00] Tony Hale.
Todd: Is it? Yeah. Not as good as Bill Hader. Um, so anyways, it’s just anxiety is there to help us prepare for stuff in the future. And the tricky part is just noticing when it gets to be too much.
Cathy: Well, one of the best parts about that movie, again, is where you get to see the room where anxiety is coming up with all Anxiety basically says to this room, you know, in the brain, you know.
Cathy: Like all of you come up with possible scenarios of what could go wrong. And so they’re all working on it and drawing things and, and there’s a name for it. I can’t remember the name for the room, um, but you know, something that’s meaningful to the brain. Um, and that’s what we, like, that’s what perseveration is, or that’s what’s becoming neurotic or, you know, focusing on.
Cathy: What is perseveration? Perseveration is like, I can’t get out of this like loop. I’m focusing on it. I’m focusing on it. You know, I, I’m so, you know, um, over, you know, hypervigilant about this. Like it’s, I’m so stuck on it. And that’s because there’s no [00:36:00] end to the things that could happen, right? There’s no end to the possibilities here.
Cathy: And so our brain is like, well, I want to come up with what could happen and then have a solution. Like how many times do, you know, I think that, and again, this is that scale of that is often healthy in being able to adapt to a new situation. So a lot of times I will say to Todd, okay, if plan A, B, and C don’t work, at least we got D, which is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Cathy: Like I do, and I don’t do that to be overly anxious. I do it because there is a possibility this won’t work. And so I want to know what the next step is. I think it becomes a problem is if we have D, E, F, G, and we’re figuring out solutions for G, and we’re figuring out how our life will change if we’re at H, and then we’re figuring out how no one will like us at M.
Cathy: You know,
Todd: you’re getting ahead of the way too ahead.
Cathy: And so there is this place, this adapt, you know, being able to adapt to new situations place, which is if this doesn’t go the way I [00:37:00] planned, I have enough resilience and flexibility. to do something different, but I’m also not constantly focused on how everything is going to go wrong.
Todd: When we were on the pontoon boat this weekend, was that fear or anxiety? So, so you’re on a pontoon boat on a lake that was kind of choppy and there’s water kind of coming on board and, uh, you were worried or concerned or afraid or anxious. I don’t know what the word is. Well,
Cathy: I actually, what I was trying to explain, and I’m Is that I’m much more reactive to what other people are experiencing.
Cathy: I don’t think I would have thought a thing. I’m not afraid of the water. I’m not afraid of being on a boat by my, I mean, I can swim. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t have a lot of fears of being in a lake. I think that I was reading what other people, because it was, we had a lot of people, were feeling about being on the boat and that they were uncomfortable with it.
Cathy: And they also have more experience being mariners than I do. Um, you know, I’m not someone, I, I go out [00:38:00] two or three times a year, you know what I mean? Um, and there was this feeling that, and, and, and, I’m just a person that people like to come to and tell them how they’re feeling. So I had a lot of people left, right in front saying, I’m really anxious about this.
Cathy: I’m really anxious about this. And I, while I can be a good soother, I also am inhaling all of that. So I’m looking around going, is this, and I, I have tools. I said to your brother, Is this safe?
Yeah.
Cathy: Are you, I’m having a lot of people telling me this isn’t safe, because we were going, it’s a long story, but we were, you know, and he was like, it’s totally fine.
Cathy: And I’m like, okay, like, I’m not someone who will sit and pretend. I mean, sometimes I do depending on the situation, but I will ask. I also, though, can’t not respond to my children and the people around me. When I say I can’t respond, maybe that’s, we could call that a problem I have, I don’t know. But I didn’t feel like, I think [00:39:00] there are things that you know me, and there are anxiety things that come with that.
Cathy: from me. Yeah. Okay. Right. Where I’ll bring something up and be worried about something, you’ll be like, Oh my God, where did that come from? That situation was not coming from me. That’s a mere neuron thing. I was responding to other people. Correct. Thank you.
Todd: Were you, were you following my lead on how I was
Cathy: being taught?
Cathy: You are not. I rarely, I mean, you are such a good grounding presence, but you are not, you, you don’t, um, you don’t have anxiety about things. So you’re not a good. I know. Resource
Todd: for me in those situations. I agree, but my hope is that you can balance out the anxious people and the non anxious people. But that’s the
Cathy: Someone who like, when we’re up at a rock and it’s like overseeing a big like canal way below, you’ll like walk all the way there and I’ll be like, please come back.
Cathy: Don’t go that far, and you’re like, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, [00:40:00] fine. You don’t have the same limits in your body that I do. So in a situation like that, It’s
Todd: almost like your nervous system doesn’t believe me.
Cathy: Well, you’re just not hardwired the way I am. So, again, remember the noticing thing we were talking about in the class that we’re going to teach?
Cathy: You don’t pay attention as much to risk. You do with money, like, there’s your, in money, you pay attention to all of it. Sure. Thanks. But I think you are sometimes not as cognizant of how something could go wrong.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And you’re a little more like, it’s fine. And there
Todd: are definitely occurrences where, uh, my relationship with risk is different than yours.
Cathy: Especially when you are, I are parenting together. Right. Because you are someone who’s like, I’m going to go jump in the waves, girls jump in the waves with me. And I’m like, okay, wait a second. Do they know how to swim in a wave? Do they need a floaty? Do they have sunscreen on? Are you going to swim with them?
Cathy: Like, you’re not thinking [00:41:00] about all the inherent risks. You’re just jumping in. Yeah. And you’re not, you’re not a, I want to be clear. I want to back up a little bit. It’s not like you’re not aware. It’s, it’s not like you’re a big jerk and you’re not doing a good job with parenting. Like I said. Sorry, just a little side note.
Cathy: It was this TikTok and it was this woman who, she’s like, I asked my husband to watch the baby for like 10 minutes so I could take a shower and she was recording him from the window and he had let the baby crawl on the minivan and the baby crawled to the top of the minivan and the dad was running back and forth because he couldn’t get the baby down because every time he would try to crawl onto the minivan.
Cathy: The baby would crawl to the other side and he was afraid the baby was going to fall off. So finally, the youngest daughter, and again, the mom’s videoing it the whole time, the youngest daughter comes down, gets the baby, like there wasn’t, everybody, the baby’s going to be fine, but the dad is not thinking of the inherent risks of maybe I’ll let [00:42:00] my child Walk on this mini.
Cathy: Yeah, it’s
Todd: probably once again like there’s this balance because there’s probably times when I should probably be a little more Tuned in.
Cathy: Yeah, that’s a good danger
Todd: and and and probably you probably Are probably a little too tuned in. Of
Cathy: course I know I am because there’s a lot of times I am not having fun at all.
Cathy: Yeah, and You know, especially when the girls were little. Beach days were not fun for me. Bike rides are not fun for me. Going on hikes where there could be a potential of falling off is not fun for me. These were things where I felt like I am the last line of defense for these children and myself. And you were kind of like, full speed ahead!
Cathy: And I appreciate your trust. I just have, and I maybe, um, To your point, I may be, the fact that I’m not having fun and I am so hyper about it is not
Todd: good. Well, and you are completely different when there’s no kids around.
Cathy: Oh my god, completely different. Because
Todd: [00:43:00] you are a woman who can take care of herself in 99.
Todd: 9 percent of the situations out there. But the minute you throw, you sprinkle in a few teenagers or Adolescence or whatever, then it’s the, the rules are different.
Cathy: You know, the thing that you and I both do now, because I’ve had to say it so many times to the girls is like, well, like when we were on the boat and everyone’s like, cause we had a slide on the boat.
Cathy: It was fun.
It was awesome.
Cathy: And it was like, mom, are you going to go up the slide? And I was like, probably not. And I think Cameron’s like, Bob, you’re not fun. And you and I both are like, yes, I am. Like, I, I am fun. But, and I ended up going off the slide, by the way. Yeah, you did. But they have an experience of me sometimes.
Cathy: Not all the time. I think now that they’re more adults, they’ve seen me be more of a risk taker. But their experience of me is the one who keeps them safe all the time. And so they somehow connect to that, to you’re not fun. Yeah. Which I’m like, dude, You know, I wish you could see me when I was on my own.
Cathy: Like I’d take all sorts of risks, but now my priority is you, sweetie.
Todd: This one’s for you.[00:44:00]
You know something sweetie? You did the slide. I know what you’re playing, but do you know what this song is about? I have no idea. It’s about a slide. No, it’s not. Is
Todd: it about sex or something?
Uh, it’s about, um, oh.
Cathy: It’s a song about abortion.
Todd: Oh dear.
Cathy: Yes.
Todd: I had no idea. Yes. See what
Cathy: happens when you don’t listen to the lyrics.
Cathy: I know. No, I did not know that. Yeah. It’s um, you know, just go ahead and go read about this. I like that song very much and we love the Goo Goo Dolls. It’s so
Todd: funny. I feel like, uh, because we used to watch Sesame Street all the time when our kids were little. Yeah. And, you know, they do spoofs with the real artists.
Todd: Yeah,
Cathy: and they did that one. They
Todd: did that one. That’s so interesting. They chose a song about abortion. Well,
Cathy: I don’t think people knew that then. I, I mean, now I’ve heard Jenn, Johnny Resnick talk about the song and when you read the words you have a better understanding. And I guess, you know, this is my pop culture knowledge, but someone may be like, Heathy, you’re totally wrong.
Cathy: I [00:45:00] just, that’s what. Well, if Johnny said it. Yeah. It was an interview that alluded to the fact and, and it, um, so anyway.
Todd: Well, sweetie, good job on going off the slide and you did it because you wanted to do it or to show.
Cathy: Oh, I didn’t do it. No. I only went off once. I was like, cause that’s the thing is the, the funny thing is, is remember how your sister didn’t want to go down and she was actually afraid.
Cathy: Yeah. Um. I am not afraid of the slide and I’m not afraid of water. I am of, I am hyper vigilant to make sure everyone’s safe. So it’s very hard for me to relax. So for example, even with having a 21 year old, a 19 year old and a 16 year old, everyone’s swimming in the lake, things are going on. There’s lots of boats.
Cathy: And I would, every five minutes go one, two, three and count where they were.
Todd: Make sure everybody’s alive.
Cathy: And I don’t know if you’re doing that. And, and that’s okay if you’re not, I’m not saying you’re bad, but that’s, I can’t not
Todd: do this. Let’s just, let’s just say that I’m counting one, two, three less than you are.
Todd: And speaking of my sister, yeah, [00:46:00] she, she would, her body was scared.
Scared, he was afraid, yes.
Todd: So she’s holding on and her nieces were encouraging her to go down the slide and she went down and went. Yeah. But it gave me an appreciation for when people do courageous things. Yeah. It’s not like. Yeah. The one I’m up at the side, I’m not thinking about it, just go down the slide, but when, you know, or roller coasters or whatever, it’s just, and it’s funny cause we did go on a big hike and there was times I, I sometimes judge myself for not feeling feelings in my body, but we went on this big hike and had this big kind of plateau and you’re, you know, you’re safe.
Todd: You’re like 10 feet from the edge, like 10 feet, but you could see that it’s a long way down. Yeah. And I feel it from my calves. Through my back. Me too. Through my neck. It’s like a full body feeling and it’s weird because I like it. Not that I like to feel that feeling, but it’s like you [00:47:00] can feel inside your body, Todd.
Cathy: Of course, and that feeling is it’s not a, oh, why am I afraid? That’s, you know, Yeah. That’s just like, yeah, that’s like a body is saying like when I’m at a very, I don’t like heights at all. And my legs will do that exact same thing you’re talking about, where you’ll get like pins and needles up your leg,
Todd: you’ll
Cathy: be dizzy even though you’re standing on a solid rock that’s survival.
Cathy: Yeah. That’s it. That’s not just, wow. What a wimp am I? That’s, that’s good. Your body like telling you something, Alex, Alex, the guy who, who free clients, Alex, yeah. He doesn’t have that feeling. No, he, his brain’s wired differently. Which is why he needs to push limits in a way, because he wants to feel that feeling.
Cathy: And again, this is coming from, I don’t know him. This is coming from watching
Todd: Free Solo. Yeah, um, yeah, there’s a documentary out there called Free Solo. Outstanding. If anybody wants to watch something that is going to make you terrified and scared and, and yet he’s
Cathy: not,
Todd: and he’s not at all. And so, yeah, I’m watching a [00:48:00] guy on a screen and I’m more scared than he is.
Todd: And he’s at a rock without being tied off
Cathy: as is the cameraman.
Todd: It’s an old, uh, camera manner title.
Cathy: Was that in the other one? There was one that, where the cameraman was like, I can’t believe that, cause I may have to take footage of this person falling. They’re friends. Right. So I know he’s tied up. I’m not worried about him.
Cathy: He was worried about Alex. Of course he was. Yeah. He’s going to document his friend’s death. And that’s what I mean. It’s like, it’s anxiety. Can you imagine? No. Jesus. I would, I mean, I’m so far from that kind of stuff. Like, I, I am. Here’s the thing. I want to like pull it back to anxiety because you and I are talking about like physical
Yeah,
Cathy: you know physical fear or like being having an anxiety about what could happen.
Cathy: There’s also Thinking about anxiety is anxiety can be a wound that we experience and it’s also a messenger at the same time So like I think I have You know, who’s to say? I really don’t know. But I [00:49:00] know when I was pretty young, that I think I had more sensitivity, right? I am very aware that now, understanding myself better and looking back, that I was highly sensitive.
Cathy: And sometimes, Anxiety is sensitivity gone awry, right? Like I was just telling, um, somebody they, they had a daughter, they have a daughter who is anxious and who’s really interested in psychology. And I’m like, that doesn’t surprise me at all. I think that sometimes people who tend to be more anxious So both of those terms, I think, help us have a greater sensitivity and understanding of human behavior.
Cathy: Or a want
Todd: to understand it better.
Cathy: Correct. I think there is It’s a natural inclination that you tap into things. And I’m not saying everyone who has anxiety wants to be a therapist necessarily, but there’s this understanding of human beings. Maybe a deeper kind of empathy and a deeper kind of tapping into, um, you know, like you said, mere neurons of other people or feeling other people’s feelings, being more of an empath.
Cathy: [00:50:00] And I think that there’s, there’s just a natural bridge to anxiety. I don’t even know if it’s that far of a bridge. It’s just like holding hands. And so And sometimes that comes from a traumatic experience we had when we were young where it kind of really red flagged this area in our brain where it gets like sirens go off when we’re feeling out of control, like sometimes it’s trauma related, sometimes it’s just the way we are, you know, there’s so many women right now, maybe men too, who are being diagnosed with like later, they’re being diagnosed on the spectrum.
Cathy: But they’re like adults, and they’ve gone through their whole life not knowing their diagnosis, and they realize that their sensitivity and some of the things they were struggling with, they, they had no idea until they’re 35 or 40 that they’re actually on the spectrum. And, and, and I think that there is anxiety tied up with that as well.
Cathy: So, um, I just think that we, I think there, it’s better to, I don’t like calling [00:51:00] anxiety a disorder and I know that in the Is
Todd: that in the DSM IV? Oh for sure, the
Cathy: DSM V, anxiety is considered a disorder and there’s all sorts of, you know, levels and, you know, definitions You got it well sifted out. Correct.
Cathy: And I don’t necessarily disagree with the criteria. For it, it’s just once you call it a disorder, you get anxious about being anxious, right? Versus, this is a part of the messenger part, which is what’s happening right now. What are you feeling? Is this true? So now
Todd: instead of piling on, just feel it, what is, what message is it here to send us instead of judge it?
Todd: and get anxious about the feeling itself.
Cathy: Yeah. Like you’ll probably, you’ll, you’ll pick up on this now, but you know, I tell people with no problem that I have dealt with anxiety my whole life, but I’ve never told, I’ve never said to anyone, I have an anxiety disorder. I don’t say that. As
Todd: soon as you say that, it gives, it’s almost like you give it power and it takes power away from you.
Cathy: Correct. I feel like I still experience it [00:52:00] and I don’t like it all the time. And sometimes it can be overpowering where I need to like go to bed and restart and everything. So it’s not like something that I know how to manage and control all the time, but I also understand it. Like I don’t, I’m not, it doesn’t surprise me and it would be hard to be me.
Cathy: With like, how do I, let me say that differently because of what I do and who I am and being with people and being a mom and writing about the things I do. It’s just part of it. Like there’s just no way, like all these experiences that we just shared with you that we’re talking about being on the boat or going on a hike.
Cathy: I, that is, I think an important component of being a caregiver.
Yeah.
Cathy: Now, could I learn some new tools to relax and have a better time myself? Probably, yeah. I mean, I think there’s plenty of room in there, but I also know that when someone can just turn their head a different way and I can tell that they’re feeling something.
Cathy: And, and that is, I find that to be a gift. I, I think that, um, sometimes I need [00:53:00] breaks from it, which is why I go be by myself and don’t be around people. So I can just feel myself and charge your battery. Right. But I also, because I love. the people in my life, when I notice there’s something going on, I’m so grateful that I notice.
Cathy: And, and that’s sometimes connected to, again, hypervigilance. And again, it’s a short bridge to anxiety. Um, any closing thoughts, my darling? Um, no, I think that that was what
Todd: you just said, which was good.
Cathy: Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s good. I’m, um, always happy to talk about, um, these experiences and I feel like going back to the beginning of when our children come to us and, and are able to verbalize that they’re feeling worried, scared, anxious, um, concerned, that we allow them to share that, that, that they’re, we don’t push back and say you shouldn’t be.
Cathy: We say this is in this family, in this house, we share all those things we say, because what you will notice is a lot of [00:54:00] times, once they say it out loud, the reason I tell Todd, sometimes I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m feeling anxious about this is sometimes just me talking about it. I start to laugh. Okay. Not laugh because I’m silly, but it’s like, it’s a release of energy.
Cathy: Like I’m worried that you are going to go past that rock and like fall into a cliff. And he’s like, I’m okay. Look at me. And I’m like, okay.
Todd: Well, there’s times I haven’t said this to you, but there’s times when you, um, stop me from getting hit by cars. Yes. Yes, I will always do that. A little prematurely, let’s say?
Todd: Maybe. And, I just think it’s interesting, like, I’ve been on the earth 52 years without having get hit by a car, and I just, like, can you trust me not to stand
Cathy: by and watch you get hit by a car when I could have done something.
Todd: I’m not going to You know
Cathy: what? This is, okay, this is a whole nother debate because they’re, and you’re not going to like this.
Cathy: Podcast next week. Are you ready for this? Yeah, let’s hear it. You’re not going to like this word. You have an entitlement when you [00:55:00] walk. You think you should cross wherever you want to cross and you will not wait for the sign to say walk and you will just decide that it’s time to go and there, there, that is not okay.
Cathy: You need to be following the rules a little more. And so I will sometimes pull you back. Now, will you have gotten hit? No, but does that car know it can turn? No, because you’re standing there and you need to be like all the other humans on the earth and follow the signs. You have, do you agree with this?
Cathy: And sometimes you’re just like, it’s Todd’s turn to go.
Todd: Yes. There are times when that happens and you do stop me during those times. And then there’s other times when there is no, like, we’ll be walking down, we’ll be doing our walk and then you’ll be like, move me over into the grass when we’re walking right by in front of our house, by the park.
Todd: That’s cause a car could come. I know, but there’s no cars coming and it’s daylight [00:56:00] and we’re going to be okay.
Cathy: Okay. So two things. Number one, partly is because I love you. So I’m going to take care of you and make sure you’re okay. I’m not going to stand there and be like, I’m not going to be anxious.
Cathy: Just hope he doesn’t get hit. Like I’m going to play a role. Number two is part of you walking in the street is that is also, I think a community thing of the cars. And now you may say, Kathy, there’s no cars. You may be right. Yeah. But sometimes you’re not, you again, noticing there are cars that would like to get by and you’re in the way, Todd, you are in the street.
Cathy: So get over to the grass. There
Todd: are definitely times when that happens. I’m not going to say you’re nuts because you’re not. There’s times. And then there’s other times when there’s no extra safety happening and you’re still moving me over in a different
Cathy: place. All of it’s true. There are times when you’re entitled.
Cathy: There’s times when you’re not at all. And I’m being totally over.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Over anxious about something that doesn’t need to be and then back we’ll name next week’s podcast Todd doesn’t want to get hit by cars. Well, you seem to not care. I [00:57:00] don’t want you to get hit by cars. Yeah. Todd seems to be like, the road is my,
Todd: the road is Well, and the same goes the way I drive sometimes.
Todd: I like, yeah.
Cathy: Like sometimes Todd does the shoulder driving thing to get like off it. I keep thinking about White Sox Park. I feel like you always do that when we’re like, not that we’re there all the time. But anyway, he just, and I’m like, this isn’t for you. This is like, this is, we need to follow the rules, and I am a rule follower, um, and I know there are times that we need to
Todd: break
Cathy: them, I’m aware.
Todd: Just ask Peter Brady, or Bobby Brady, who’s the one that was like, really in on rule following. I think it’s Bobby. Was he
Cathy: wearing the badge? He’s
Todd: wearing the badge on his shoulder. On his arm. And he got mad at Greg. He wrote Greg up. He wrote
Cathy: Greg up in the hallway.
Todd: Greg was
Cathy: Hallway patrol.
Todd: Yeah, but yeah, he went from hallway patrol and he was doing, he was doing it at his house and Greg took a girl out on a date.[00:58:00]
Todd: But he came home late because his girlfriend was, uh, locked out. Right. So he did the right thing. So
Cathy: Greg did the right thing, but then Bobby was being like a snitch. Bobby wrote, he was a snitch. He was taking his job way too seriously.
Todd: Yeah. We gotta re watch that one.
Cathy: Do we? So
Todd: good. Yes.
Cathy: How many? We’ve watched that 80, 000 times.
Cathy: We need 80,
Todd: 000 more. Okay. Let’s close shop. Okay. Um. I will, uh, say join Team Zen, and for the guys out there, uh, join me next Saturday for Jed Diamond’s talk, it’s going to be good. And I’m also going to say thanks to Jeremy Craft. And then our class on August 26th. Oh, August 26th, um, uh, that’s about noticing.
Todd: Noticing. A fun little discussion unit. We’ve been talking about that, yeah. Um, and then Jeremy Craft, he does painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area. His number is 630 956 1800. Look him up and tell him Zen Parenting sent you. Keep [00:59:00] trucking.
