Todd and Cathy discuss acceptance and emphasize the importance of releasing old ideas and remaining open to new ones in order to figure out how to accept and move forward. They also discuss the reality of nuance and paradox, explaining why decision-making is not about finding the ‘right’ decision, but rather the right decision for right now. The also talk about Tim McGraw’s music and how it reminds us to be our best selves.

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Cultivating Acceptance: Lessons from Zen Parenting Radio’s Podcast 767

In this podcast episode titled “767 Working Toward Acceptance,” Todd and Cathy discuss the intriguing journey toward acceptance and the many facets of it in our everyday lives. This conversation delves deep into the intricacies of acceptance in relationships, parenting, and self-growth.

Why Zen Parenting?
Our podcasts are grounded in the belief that the best predictor of a child’s well-being is a parent’s self-understanding. This motto guides our discussions and interactions, encouraging listeners to reflect and grow. In this episode, Todd and Cathy explore practical strategies and insights for moving toward acceptance in various areas of our lives.

A Casual Start with the White Sox
Before diving into the main topic, Todd humorously kicks off the episode with an update on his beloved White Sox. Despite a dismal season with only 15 wins and 45 losses so far, Todd’s commentary lightens the mood and sets the stage for deeper conversations.

Bhutan’s Happiness Model
Todd introduces an interesting fact about Bhutan, a country that measures its progress with “Gross National Happiness” instead of the traditional Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This unique approach encompasses sustainable development, cultural preservation, and environmental conservation, offering a holistic view of well-being that resonates with Zen Parenting ethos. Bhutan, with its lack of traffic lights and emphasis on happiness, inspires a thought-provoking discussion.

Delving into Acceptance
Marriage and Relationship Dynamics
Cathy begins the discussion on acceptance by examining the myths around marriage, especially the notion of finding a partner who fulfills every need. She emphasizes the importance of seeing marriage as a partnership between two whole individuals. This concept extends to recognizing and letting go of preconceived notions, and allowing both partners to grow individually and together.

A critical realization here is that the blending of lives doesn’t mean losing individual identities. Todd shares anecdotes, highlighting that growth and changes within marriage are inevitable and vital for a healthy relationship. The idea is to appreciate each other’s differences while finding common ground and moving towards a harmonious existence.

Parenting Challenges
Acceptance in parenting, as discussed by Cathy and Todd, centers around understanding and adapting to the evolving needs of children. For example, Todd mentions how he had to let go of his expectation that his teenage daughters should continue being his playmates. This evolution is a natural part of their growth, and parental acceptance plays a crucial role in supporting this process.

The couple shares instances where they had to adjust their parenting styles to respect their children’s newfound independence, balancing family values with the need for autonomy.

Personal Growth and Self-Acceptance
Cathy reflects on the necessity of accepting oneself in the journey of parenting and relationships. The concept of expanding and contracting—letting go of old beliefs and creating space for new ones—is highlighted as key to personal growth. Todd shares his struggles with balancing his competitiveness in activities like pickleball and his desire to have fun, showing that acceptance is a continual process.

Musical Inspiration: Tim McGraw
Tim McGraw’s music serves as an inspiration for personal development and acceptance. His latest album “Standing Room Only” invites listeners to think about the legacy they want to leave and how they choose to live their lives. His songs, often reflecting values like being a good person and cherishing relationships, underscore the themes discussed in the podcast.

Community Support and Further Listening
For parents looking to delve deeper into such enriching conversations, Team Zen offers a supportive community where members can participate in Q&A sessions, receive exclusive content, and find camaraderie. By joining Team Zen, you also get to engage with like-minded individuals through women’s groups and other events.

Closing Thoughts
Acceptance, in its many forms, is a powerful tool for fostering healthier relationships, better parenting, and personal fulfillment. As Todd and Cathy illustrate in Episode 767, it involves shedding old beliefs, expanding our understanding, and continually adapting to life’s nuances. By embracing this journey, we move closer to a state of well-being and harmony.

Thank you for joining us in this exploration of acceptance. We encourage you to listen to the full episode for more insights and to keep growing with us here at Zen Parenting Radio.



Todd: Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 767. Why listen to Zen Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding. And always remember our motto, which is the best predictor of a child’s well being is a parent’s self understanding. Uh, give me your guess on what we might call today’s show, sweetie.

Cathy: Uh, something around finding acceptance. Like what’s a word when you’re like, not like clawing, I’m like doing something with my hands, like moving toward acceptance, like the process of acceptance. There’s a lot of different ways I could say it. So, um, but I wanted to talk about the, like some of the things we do to get there.[00:01:00] 

Todd: Awesome. I love it. Um. 

Cathy: Will you take your screen and like, you’re so short in this screen. Just go like that. There we go. Yeah. Now you fill up the space. Okay. 

Todd: Very good. Thank you, sweetie. Um, but first, before we talk about moving towards acceptance, there are a few other things I want to say. Okay. I’m wearing my White Sox hat.

Cathy: Okay. 

Todd: The White Sox have won 15 games. In a row? No. Oh. They’ve won 15 games this year. They’ve lost 45. 

Cathy: Okay. So you were trying to do positive. 

Todd: I was just messing with people. Um, I’m not a fair weather fan. The White Sox might go down as one of the worst teams in history. They’ve lost 12 games in a row. This year.

Todd: This year. But not forever. No, no. The worst season by a Major League Baseball team. 

Cathy: Wow, that’s too bad. 

Todd: I know. And we’re a third of the way, let’s see, 15, 16. Yeah, we’re, we’re just over a third of the way through the season. So anyways, Why don’t they do Moneyball? Um, they gotta do something. Because whatever they’re doing isn’t right.

Todd: So that’s my first thing I wanted to share. Wait, do you think Moneyball [00:02:00] ruined 

Cathy: baseball? 

Todd: Of course not. Okay. Do you know there’s people who do? Um, well, yeah, we, and that’s a whole nother podcast, but no, somebody taking the information and interpreting it differently is, is interesting. Some people believe in it.

Todd: Some people don’t. Moneyball is a great movie. Um, so. As we were, um, getting ready to press record, Kathy asked me if I’ve ever heard of a country called Bhutan. B H U T A N. B H U T A N. Correct. Why did you ask me that question? Because 

Cathy: we get sometimes these notifications about, like, where we’re charting.

Cathy: The podcast. The podcast. You’re like, where are we charting? And in Bhutan, we are the number two parenting podcast, but we’re number 95 overall in all podcasts in Bhutan. So I just said to Todd, I’m like, what, what, what just happened? Because 

Todd: That’s to all Bhutan. Yeah. 

Cathy: And 

Todd: we appreciate that. Thank you for listening.

Todd: I did a little research on Bhutan in the last five minutes. Okay. Are [00:03:00] you ready? You’re gonna, you’re gonna like it. First of all, it’s nestled in between like, uh, China, it’s just Southwest of China. Okay. It’s right next to Nepal, which we’ve heard of because that’s where you have to fly into to go to Mount Everest.

Todd: Um, a few random facts about the country Bhutan. Instead of going with the gross domestic product, which is GDP, Bhutan measures progress through gross national happiness. 

Cathy: Really? 

Todd: That’s what it says. Oh. The GNH focuses on the holistic well being of its citizens, incorporating factors like sustainable development, cultural preservation, and environmental conservation.

Todd: Oh, 

Cathy: I love 

Todd: that. It still has a minor monarchy. It’s deeply rooted in Buddhism. 

Cathy: Okay. That’s probably why Zen Parenting Radio is 

Todd: well there. Um, Bhutan is the global leader in environmental conservation. It is the only carbon negative country in the world. Meaning, it absorbs more carbon dioxide than it [00:04:00] produces.

Todd: That’s crazy. 

Cathy: That is. 

Todd: Do you know kind of what that all means? 

Cathy: I think so. I think I understand. 

Todd: I mean, we’re all trying to get to carbon neutral and Bhutan is carbon negative. I didn’t even know. That was a possibility. Yeah. Um, so, and then last thing is it has no traffic lights. Uh, in the capital, it’s famously known for having no traffic lights.

Todd: Instead, traffic is directed by white gloved police officers at major intersections. Old school. So thanks to Bhutan. 

Cathy: Yeah. And to all these countries, we get lists of people, like sometimes we’re not even charting in our own country or we’re like way down the list, like 200. And then somewhere else we’re like number one or number two.

Cathy: So we’re all over the board with, um, and I learn about countries. I learn about smaller countries when I look at that list because I’m like, Oh, 

Todd: love it. These people like to listen to our show. Um, and lastly, before we go towards acceptance, Um, you write this thing on Substack called Kathy’s Moments? 

Cathy: No, it’s called Zen Parenting Moment.

Todd: Zen Parenting Moment. 

Cathy: It’s just, it’s my page. Kathy Kasani Adams [00:05:00] Substack page. And then it’s, uh, Zen Parenting Moment. Yeah. 

Todd: And I’m just gonna read the first paragraph. And this was from last Friday. So I invite you if you haven’t subscribed to Kathy’s Substack, it’s kind of awesome. Short reads. It’s really good.

Cathy: And it only comes every Friday morning. I think sometimes people don’t want more email. It’s really not that much. Yeah. 

Todd: Every day I wake up and figure out what I should do among all the things I’m supposed to do. Get up early. Relax, but be as productive as possible. Get going, but don’t burn out. Love myself fully, but focus on others.

Todd: Be present for my kids, but give them plenty of space. Speak up for my needs, but listen intently. Ask for what I need, but But be flexible, invest in myself, but don’t spend too much money. I like that one, sweetie. Don’t spend too much money. 

Cathy: I know. 

Todd: Uh, say no to what I want. But you didn’t 

Cathy: say the first part as, as prominently, invest in yourself.

Todd: But don’t spend too much money. 

Cathy: Correct. 

Todd: I know, I’m just messing with you. 

Cathy: Well, it’s funny, uh, on Pivot, the Pivot podcast, Kara Swisher just said the other [00:06:00] day, Hey, You can’t always 

Todd: get what you want. He said 

Cathy: she was doing a home refurbishing or something and somebody told her how much it was going to be.

Cathy: And that person said something like, you can’t live off stocks. Or you can’t, what did they say? Something about 

Todd: Gee, this is brilliant. 

Cathy: Something about like you hoarding money and like having it just sitting there in stocks and watching it go up and go down. There’s nothing happening. There’s no, there’s like a hoarding of money.

Cathy: Now, some people listening are like, I don’t even have money in stocks. I’m just doing my day to day experience with the money that comes in. And I totally get that. Um, but it’s like, there’s sometimes, sometimes money gets put in a place where we just look at it. And then we, you know, get to be 95 years old and sitting there, you forget to live.

Todd: There’s a book that changed my view on money, depends on what day I’m reading it on, uh, and it’s called Die With Zero or Dying With Zero. And the idea is, [00:07:00] you know, some people’s goal is to make as much wealth as they can and then pass it on to their kids or foundations or whatever. And his whole thing is you’re kind of missing life.

Cathy: Yeah. And my thing is like somewhere right in the middle and I even feel like, you know, we’re older now. And so, you know, it’s easier than talking about this when we started the podcast 14 years ago. Cause that’s when we were like trying to figure out how to have another bathroom. Cause we had three girls cause we used to all share one bathroom and we were trying to figure out how to like live in a way where it was safe.

Cathy: We could do it, right? You know, we have three growing girls. And so we were able to, we made some difficult choices financially and, you know, had to work hard to make sure that we could pay these things off. And, but in the end, if we’re just not investing in ourselves, if we’re, if we’re saying, I’m going to struggle through everything because I don’t want to touch money, see, this is it.

Cathy: This gets really. Tricky depending on who you’re talking to, because there’s some people that we always talk about this with the Dying with Zero book, because there’s some people [00:08:00] who need to, even at our age, need to keep saving. They need to start saving because whatever life circumstances, um, have come before them.

Cathy: Come about that has diminished. I actually just was reading something that said the top three things that will take away your money. Number one was divorce. 

Todd: Sure. And I thought, 

Cathy: I thought that was really interesting. 

Todd: Lawyer’s fees and two mortgages or two rental, two apartments to rent or whatever. Like it’s just, it’s a, it’s a wealth destroyer.

Cathy: Yeah. And I was like, wow. Right. Number two was medical bills. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: And number three, I can’t, I feel like it was something around bad investments or just overspending, you know, not having any kind of budgetary, but number one was divorce. So anyway, so it’s, it’s like, there’s this space in between where it’s, it’s a gray space, right?

Cathy: There’s sometimes you need to invest in yourself and there’s sometimes where you need to save because you don’t have a future if you don’t have the money. 

Todd: And sometimes you need to invest in yourself by getting a divorce, quite [00:09:00] honestly. If you’re with the wrong person, there’s no reason to be stuck in a marriage with somebody who doesn’t fill you up, or you don’t fill them up, or whatever.

Todd: Um, just a quick plug for men living. There’s a Tuesday night separation divorce call led by three amazing men, Mike, Jeremy, and Dan. And if there’s any men out there that are struggling with that. Uh, please get on. 

Cathy: Only for men though, right? Only for men. Not gender? No. Okay. Um, so yeah, so anyway, the reason that I wrote that was because I think that everything is paradoxical and depending on the day, you’re making a different decision and there is no absolute right one way.

Cathy: And I think I was being a little, uh, I’m frustrated by sometimes social media, as if I haven’t learned this a million times over the last however many years I’ve been on social media, but sometimes there’s just people who go on and say, this is what you have to do if you want to be healthy. This is what you have to do if you want to, you know, earn money.

Cathy: This is what you want to do if you want to be close to your kids. And it’s [00:10:00] these absolutes that just don’t exist. 

Todd: Everybody’s experience is different. 

Cathy: Yeah, I mean, even something like sleep. Sleep is the most important thing, right? I love sleeping. I know, sleep is great. But there are times that going to bed late is fun because you’re staying up or you’re going to a show or you’re having fun with your friends.

Cathy: And then there’s times when getting up early is really awesome. 

Todd: Love getting up early. Do you? I do. 

Cathy: Okay. 

Todd: As long as it’s on my terms. Right. Right. If I’m getting up early for something I want to do. 

Cathy: Right. If you’re choosing, and that’s kind of what I mean, if you’re choosing it, it’s pretty great. Um, and so now that doesn’t mean, so do those things all the time.

Cathy: It just means sometimes we sleep, sometimes we get up and I just want to find a world where we can live in this, this more gray, gray, Nuanced. It’s such a negative word. Nuanced. Nuanced. Ambiguous. Non binary. Not, you know, not one end of the spectrum or the other. Just this place. I, it’s, it’s, you know what, I think that’s [00:11:00] wisdom.

Cathy: Gray is wisdom. 

Todd: Yeah. So anyway, go ahead. So as we move on to the main topic, moving towards acceptance, as you and I are talking about, there’s, you know, there’s no one way to live. Right. Right. And I’ll like Disagree with myself for a second. I think moving towards acceptance is probably one pretty good way to live.

Todd: Yeah. So what is this all about? 

Cathy: So I just I think I read a few things in the last couple days talking about acceptance And then when I read something this morning again, I was like, okay, maybe this is something we should talk about and I think the the The thing that I liked about considering acceptance is that there’s two things you have to do.

Cathy: Okay? The first thing you have to do is let go of some preconceived notions about how you thought something was going to be. Okay? So let’s talk about, um, marriage. Okay? So, say you get married, let’s talk about the people who are early married. early married or got married when they were younger. Yeah. You know, or people listening who are maybe younger and they just got married and they’re like, Oh my gosh, I [00:12:00] thought it would be a certain way.

Cathy: And maybe the belief that they had about marriage was that this person would be everything to them, that they would never be alone, that someone would be there to satisfy their every need, that they would finally never feel lonely. That they would feel like, um, important, the most important person to someone all the time.

Cathy: All these like beliefs about what marriage is supposed to be, that you are, you know, just the whole idea is something you and I have talked about a lot on the show is dispelling the idea that, you know, bringing two people together and making them one. That, that’s not a real thing. No. You need two full people, whole people, that two people come together and then they, they join hands or they decide to go through life together, but you don’t become one or else then you lose yourself.

Todd: Totally. And I think a lot of couples do that. And it’s funny, you talk about extremes, there’s some couples that just completely blend. They merge. Which is, um, why I like it when you and I take [00:13:00] pictures and we don’t look exactly like, even though our kids are like, you guys look like. And I’m like, 

Cathy: okay, so let’s talk about this for a second because I sometimes feel that in, and this is a conversation rather than an absolute, but you work too hard sometimes to go the other way and you don’t have acceptance about we’ve lived together for 20 years where there’s mannerisms we have that are really similar.

Cathy: We both wear glasses now. We both have brown hair. We both, we just look similar. Did we look similar 20 years ago? No, but what about all those things I just said? We’ve been living together 20 years. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Cathy: We’ve been, we have similar mannerisms. We sometimes have the same vocal inflections. You can’t keep from being similar to someone that you’re with all the time.

Cathy: And I think sometimes you’re, yeah, it’s, it’s offensive to like, hello. Hello. Of 

Todd: course. The reason it’s offensive to me is because we are romantic partners. If I hear siblings, I just get some weird, icky thoughts. Okay, totally. I [00:14:00] get that. I get that. That’s where it’s coming from. Okay. Just so you know. Right.

Todd: And, and there’s a, and I, I, and kind of how we started this conversation. Hygienity. It’s, I, I like having, my thing that I’m interested in that I can share with you and your thing that you’re interested in that you can share with me. And of course, then parenting is a blending of it all. But you have your books and you have all these other things you do.

Todd: And I have all these other things that I do. And that’s important. 

Cathy: Totally. But that has nothing to do with how grossed out you get at a picture where you’re like, Oh, no, that’s the that’s the visual, right? Yeah. So and so, again, This is the acceptance part. Like, I do hear you, and then sometimes I’m like, you’re pushing too hard to like, make this not be this way.

Cathy: Like, you, uh, a joke I kind of have about my own parents, um, is that there came a point when they would like, find a coat that was really great, and then they’d both get that coat. Right. Or they would, so my parents really did start to look alike in [00:15:00] like, the ways they dressed and stuff. And And I get, I’m not suggesting we go buy the big coat.

Todd: Let’s go to Burlington Coat Factory. Let’s go get blue winter jackets. 

Cathy: And my parents coats were yellow, by the way. But I, there’s a cuteness to it too. There’s a little like, I understand we’re not going to do that. So you don’t need to stress. But the whole idea of, oh my God, I just want nothing, Know, no way would I ever do that.

Cathy: There’s also a pushing away Mm-Hmm. where it’s, I can sometimes be like, okay, Mm-Hmm, , you know, it’s kind of like the same thing of, I don’t wanna hold your hand in public. You do not like this, by the way. 

Todd: But I probably was, you were in the 

Cathy: beginning, or like, oh no, I don’t wanna do PDA or I don’t wanna see, you know, and so there’s this like, um, ego part about it instead of, and I think the reason that.

Cathy: When people get older, like when my parents didn’t care that they’re wearing the same coat, is they didn’t care what people thought anymore. The most important thing is this coat was a good coat. Yeah. And solid coat. Solid coat. And um, we would sometimes make fun of them, but only because they loved each other and it was cute.

Cathy: Yeah. [00:16:00] And so sometimes 

Todd: the We both wore cowboy hats on Friday night. I had no issues with that. 

Cathy: Well, but that’s 

Todd: Because we crushed it. That’s 

Cathy: like saying we both wear shoes, like, right? No. Because, well, we wore cowboy hats because we were going to a country concert. 

Todd: That’s right. So that’s just what you do.

Todd: Not everybody. I was, I was surprised how few people were wearing cowboy hats. Did you 

Cathy: look on the floor? There was a lot of men wearing cowboy hats, a lot of women wearing cowboy hats too. 

Todd: I’m not saying that they weren’t, I’m just saying most people did not have that. If I 

Cathy: am going to a country show, if I am going to Nashville, if I am going to even, did we do it in Georgia?

Cathy: No. But there’s a few places that I always wear my cowboy hat and my boots. Like I just do. Yeah. Because that’s, because I can’t. Cause it’s, it’s like so normalized in the culture.

Clip: Humble. 

Todd: I’ve never heard that song before. And is that [00:17:00] one of his famous ones? 

Cathy: Yes. And you have, you’ve just forgotten it because at our 20 16 20 15 conference, oh, we, I played that video. 

Todd: Oh, the whole thing? Uh 

Cathy: huh. 

Todd: Oh, wow. 

Cathy: It’s like an in between. Do you remember how I used to play videos? Interstitial?

Cathy: Interstitial. Like, we were waiting for You know, it was kind of like everybody come in the room and I would play a video. So that is Tim McGraw, everybody. We went to see his show. I’m a very big Tim McGraw fan and, um, he, and he’s a good example. So let’s talk about him in terms of he is married to Faith Hill, who’s also a singer and he talks about her all the time.

Cathy: Most of his songs are about her, except for the ones that are a little more like. you know, let’s go grab a beer kind of thing. 

Speaker 4: Um, 

Cathy: and then he, um, during the show, he had her up on the screen half the time, like pictures of his wife. 

Todd: Totally endearing. 

Cathy: And he would turn around and be like, I’m so lucky. And he, you know, look [00:18:00] at his wife.

Cathy: And then he, he has three girls, just like Todd and I do. And he loves his daughters so much. And he talks about them all the time. And he, he, if you follow him on social media, he’ll like post with them with his, his And he’s just very, I find he can like, okay, how am I going to say this? So she’s an example, a little bit like Dak Shepherd, where he can be super emotional and super, like he can cry and be like totally in love with his wife.

Cathy: And. be totally, you know, engaging with his daughters, but he’s kind of got a tough guy persona. 

Todd: Not kind of. He does. He’s like a, he’s, how old is he? 57? He’s 57. And the guy’s ripped. It looks like he’s 22. He’s a good looking guy. Yeah. And he also, You know, is successful from a traditional standpoint. Right.

Todd: So it’s kind of, it’s easier for a guy, I judge, I may not be right here, but I think it’s easier for guys to get into [00:19:00] that softer side of them if they can balance that out with The more traditional masculine stuff. 

Cathy: You know, the external or the thing, you know, Dax talks about that all the time. He can go ride his motorcycle and be tough and, you know, do all of his things and then he can cry.

Cathy: And I think 

Todd: that’s wonderful. I think we all should aim for that because I don’t want to be, I think that there’s, within each one of us, there’s masculine and feminine. The masculine is the tough, the tough. stoic. The feminine is the listening, nurturing. I think we all have that. And when I, I, if I was just feminine, I think that that would be tough for, um, let’s say you.

Cathy: But, but here’s the thing, maybe, or maybe I don’t know that. Like, the thing is, is like, we, I love the gray, but there’s also people who are strong on one side of the binary. Do you know what I mean? Like, there is no right way. 

Todd: There is no right way. Right, because 

Cathy: there are, there are men who are quite fem, uh, feminine, and [00:20:00] they don’t need to change anything.

Cathy: Well, 

Todd: and as I said, because it’s all kind of weird, feminine, or, uh, vulnerability. Mm 

Cathy: hmm. 

Todd: is a strength. It’s a superpower. So I think there is strength in the feminine. It’s not like feminine is weak. No. Feminine for me is actually stronger than some guy who’s stoic and, and is impenetrable. 

Cathy: You’re right. So basically I think it’s just going off of this conversation about Tim McGraw where, or Dax Shepard, where we’re like, Oh, on the outside, they’re super masculine, but on the inside, so we’re talking about a very specific kind of person.

Cathy: Whereas there’s many variations and gradations in between of that. I was just speaking of him. I think he, he kind of is, he, okay. So the majority of Tim McGraw’s songs are about being a good person. Honestly. Like if you really look at his songs, especially his new ones, Except this 

Clip: don’t get fired. I don’t get some sleep.

Clip: Don [00:21:00] lost buddy. See, I’m, I know I want some, I try so hard. I can, I know what it is about that little, I love it. I, I 

Todd: don’t even know what he’s talking about. That show. What, what is it, you know? 

Cathy: More time with his girl. Oh, got it. He, so basically he’s like with this new girl. Yeah. So again, he’s with a girl. So it’s really not that different.

Cathy: He’s with this girl. He’s going out with her all the time. His buddies are like, dude, you are way into this and he’s getting lost. He hasn’t watched his baseball team. He’s disconnected from the things he used to do, sorry, but he likes it. Yeah. He loves it. Yeah. He wants some more of it. 

Todd: Yeah. And that’s I was too weak to, to want when I was in my twenties, cause I thought Getting drunk with my buddies is more important than being in a relationship with you.

Cathy: Yeah. Well, and so that is, if we’re going to go back to the [00:22:00] topic, I’m not done with Tim McGraw, but we’ll go back to that. 

Todd: Please. 

Cathy: Why not? The more Tim McGraw, the better. I’m serious. He’s great. I, I think that the, Listening to someone like Tim McGraw and listening to the music he puts out could be very helpful to people.

Cathy: Yeah, I think it’s very inspiring and I think it gives us I think he’s a good role model in that way. Um, Anyway, so that in itself like something you had to shed Yeah, was this idea that if you were Super connected to me as your girlfriend or your wife that you were weaker. Yeah You You had a belief from childhood, from being a teen, from being in early 20s, hanging out with guys all the time, that this whole idea, this idea of being whipped or being controlled by a woman, Like, there was this really us and them mentality about you’re either with the guys and then you have a girl or you’re with the girls and you’re not with the guys.

Cathy: So it was more like a possession. 

Todd: It [00:23:00] was, for me, it was binary. I can’t be both. I’m either this side or that side. Oh gosh. Terrible. That’s 

Cathy: awful. I know. And, and that’s awful just in terms of, no wonder you didn’t want to get into a relationship because do you think you’re going to lose your friends? 

Todd: Lose myself, lose my friends, lose everything.

Cathy: Lose yourself? 

Todd: Sure. Tell me, explain that. Well, I think I wanted to, who am I if I’m not this guy? And who’s this guy? 

Cathy: The drunken idiot. But there’s got to be more there than just being drunk. What you just being with men being like considered masculine. Having 

Todd: fun, sports, you know, all the things, you know, I grew up in this macho boy culture.

Todd: Right. And for me to drop into my feminine. That was completely foreign to me. 

Cathy: Right, well, and that’s heavy language, right? It’s kind of like what we talked about last week, where you were like, saying that if men could just say, I’m scared, that’s a reach. Saying that dropping into your feminine, the language can scare people off.

Cathy: But really it was just, seeing [00:24:00] a woman as equal, right? Being like, this is somebody that, because basically what it is, is guys are good and girls are bad. 

Todd: Right? I don’t think I ever, I really don’t think I 

Cathy: Not that you really believed that, but 

Todd: isn’t that like the culture of it? Like girls are I thought it was like, this is not what I want to be doing right now.

Todd: I knew I would eventually settle down, but I needed to keep being an idiot. 

Cathy: Yeah. Well, and you just, and you were kind of given belief systems about women 

Todd: that they’ll trap you. I didn’t have the best, um, role modeling. My parents were divorced, and there was a lot of fighting and everything, and I’m like, well, I don’t want to fight, so how do I not fight?

Todd: I don’t get, I don’t settle down with a girl. 

Cathy: So, okay, so let me bring in my side. So you and I come together, and some shedding we had to do is you had to shed the idea that being with me was weak or that you were losing yourself. Yes. Yes. And I had to come in and realize that I didn’t have to be over accommodating to you.

Cathy: That [00:25:00] doesn’t mean I didn’t accommodate you. I mean over accommodating because I, I kind of think that the thing that women, at least Gen X, and hopefully this is decreasing as we get into Millennials and Gen Z, there’s still this belief of male, um, Attention, or that it’s something you have to like strive for, or you have to go above and beyond, or you have to be a great homemaker, or look great all the time.

Cathy: Like there was a lot, there’s a lot of like, I need to appease you. It 

Todd: would more than you need to appease me. It’s like that part in About Last Night where Joan and Deb are talking, and Joan’s like, You’re probably the type of person that would just ditch your friends the minute a cute boy would walk around, and she’s like, Yeah, it’d be the same kind of.

Cathy: And that’s the, and that can be a thing where these are some things we learn early in marriage or maybe we don’t learn them and don’t process them and these are the reasons why people get divorced later, right, is that these old school belief systems that we really have to question, like if you still at this point have a partner who’s like doesn’t want to hold [00:26:00] your hand in public or like tells his buddies that his wife is annoying and throws you under the bus or like tries to be someone who’s like super grandiose and thinks they’re better than or is not thoughtful about your feelings.

Cathy: They haven’t shed that idea. Yeah. That idea that they used to have about what a relationship was. Right. They haven’t let go of that. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Cathy: And that, That is difficult because it’s hard to move forward if you’re carrying all that heavy weight, right, of what things you’ve got 

Todd: to let go of certain things. I mean, as we talk about acceptance, you got to let go of certain things in order for new things to show up.

Cathy: Exactly. So let’s, I’m going to add in the other side so we can talk about both these things simultaneously in a relationship. And this is true in parenting too, right? Shedding versus We got to get bigger. We got to expand, right? We got to let go of things and we also have to get bigger. So it’s kind of a, um, it’s a paradox, right?

Cathy: You have to, you have to work on ridding yourself of something. And you also have to work on [00:27:00] expanding your idea of what, I 

Todd: think I have a good example. 

Cathy: Okay, let’s hear it. 

Todd: So when our kids became, you know, mid teens, 15, 16, 17 years old, they go through this transition and you know, I used to be their playmate and they used to want to be with me all the time and be silly and make up stuff and dance and sing.

Todd: And then their friends became more important. I needed to shed the belief system that if they are evolving in such a way, I need to let go that that’s what is supposed to be happening right now. So 

Cathy: let’s say that differently. What you really needed to, to shed was the idea that the girls should continue being your playmate.

Cathy: Yeah. The belief 

Todd: that they should keep being who they were when they were five and 10 and whatever else age. Yes. So yeah, that would be one example I would give. 

Cathy: Yeah. And, and those, and if we don’t do that, like if Todd doesn’t go through the work and do that, then think about what comes. From that, you know, you blame your kids for not being as close.

Cathy: Yeah, what happened [00:28:00] to you? I heard you were always blah, blah, blah. You’re never around. You know, you’re not part of this family anymore. Well, 

Todd: just, just total ownership. I’m still working on this for sure. I, I, I still struggle with that. 

Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think every parent does because I think there’s boundaries.

Cathy: We don’t know. Um, there’s also this line of let’s maintain a family unit, which I think is, is healthy and normal, meaning let’s make family a priority. Let’s teach the part of our value system is in our family. We take care of each other and we, you know, we maintain a sense of closeness, but you have to do that with, um, also allowing your kids to, to go to be away from 

Todd: you.

Todd: And we have another example of that going on right now. Both of our kids are, uh, are going are on a trip, each one of them. Yeah. Our two older ones. With their partners or their partner’s families. Yeah. And they, um, you know, they’re not checking in with us as much as they do when it’s their normal day to day.

Cathy: Well, one does. 

Todd: Well, I don’t, I didn’t want to point anybody out. That’s why I didn’t say it. 

Cathy: [00:29:00] Well, and here’s the thing, but I think what’s important is that the only reason I like this conversation, and I don’t feel like anybody’s doing anything wrong, is that is you also have to let go of the idea that your kids should be doing the same things.

Todd: For sure. 

Cathy: That if one is doing something, everybody should be doing something. They are different in their needs. And honestly, one of the things that’s been so helpful to me, and I feel like we’re kind of, you know, talking about a lot of things at once here, but is I have, my girls have gone through times.

Cathy: that have been difficult, or where friendships haven’t been great, or they’ve felt lonely, or they’ve, whatever. All three of them. Struggled. They’ve struggled in some way. So now, if they are good, And they are happy going out with people and being with people or they’re partnered or hanging out with, you know, other people in their world.

Cathy: I am good because the alternative sucks. And, and someone listening right now may be going through that with their kid, or it may have been going on for years. And, you know, Most parents get that, you know, we know what that feels like [00:30:00] to have a kid who’s, they’re feeling outside or they’re feeling like they’re not quite sure where they connect.

Cathy: And then when they do start to connect in some way, we’re kind of like, go, because this is, it’s almost like they keep falling off the bicycle and then they finally start riding it forward. And you’re like, go ahead. Don’t wait for me, you know? Um, so I don’t say one checks in and the other doesn’t. So one’s good and one’s bad.

Cathy: That’s Is it okay, are both ways okay? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Cathy: Or do we say to ourselves, no. This one does it this way, how come that one doesn’t do it that way? Correct. And it’s that way with gifts, or with cards, or with um, holidays. Like, I feel like the biggest family challenges come in when we have a blanket expectation of everybody.

Cathy: Yeah. And someone doesn’t adhere to that expectation. If it be our kids, our in laws, our, you know, cousins, whatever it may be. Yeah. And so then we get mad at them and we decide they’re doing it wrong and then there’s like this resentment and this underlying [00:31:00] conversation within the family how this person is doing it wrong instead of like, you know, I’m going to go back to a way old Maya Angelou thing from years ago that we used to talk about, you know, love liberates.

Cathy: Love is you go do you and I’ll love you no matter what love isn’t. If you stay home and call me on Mother’s Day at the right time and buy me the right gift and do the right things, then I’ll love you. 

Todd: So, uh, I guess said in another way, my ego sometimes has this blueprint of the way I think other people should be.

Todd: Correct. 

Cathy: Yes. And 

Todd: what we need to do is shed or let go of the blueprint because the blueprint for this kid or this boss or this employee or whatever, and if you’re, if you have a blueprint, Then you’re not open. You’re not curious. You’re not willing to you’re working from the blueprint. Yeah, you’re working for the blueprint So just get rid of the blueprints and I love my blue blueprints.

Todd: Sure I love it because when I wake up, this is how I think my day’s gonna go and then Something off the blueprint happens and then I start suffering 

Cathy: Well, there are best laid plans and then [00:32:00] there are real plans like when I think about something, you know an event Um, I obviously want my girls there and obviously Todd or, you know, certain friends or whatever.

Cathy: And sometimes people can make it happen and sometimes they can’t. My, my plan is a good one. Does it end up being exactly what I planned? Not always. And that’s okay. Now, I can have my own disappointment about that. Like, the thing is, is there’s a lot of room and exploration in here. Like, you know, it can sound like we’re saying, okay, do this.

Cathy: It’s, it’s allowing, it’s letting go of some ideas so you can expand your awareness of what it means to love someone and sometimes loving them. is letting them go do things without all of your imposing. 

Todd: Well, the cliche is what, love something and set it free or whatever. I mean, there’s And then 

Cathy: it’ll come back to 

Todd: you.

Todd: There’s a reason these cliches have stuck around is because they’re, a lot of times are true. 

Cathy: Well, and I think that like, for example, at the beginning of the summer, you know, now that I have a 21 year [00:33:00] old, a 19 year old and a seven, almost, no, 16 year old. She’s not 17. I’m not rushing that. She is 16. Um, Now that I have more adult children, something I do is, or I did this year especially, is here’s some plans that we have.

Cathy: Here’s a concert we’re going to as a family. Here’s when your cousins are coming in. Here is Father’s Day. Here’s my birthday. And these are plans we’re going to have as a family. And I said, save these dates. And they’re like, okay, cool. So I’m not, so my expectation are those days. Okay. And they’re like, all right, we’re in.

Cathy: Unless, They were traveling or something, which, you know, for this summer, they’re not. Um, and then anything on top of that is just icing. Yeah. Like, these are the things where I’m planning on this and, and hopefully you can make it happen in the majority of time they can, but anything else is just, you know, when one of the girls is like, Oh yeah, I’m coming home or let’s go do brunch today.

Cathy: Or, you know, Oh, we’re going to drive through Chicago. That’s just awesome. 

Todd: So I feel what you’re saying is sometimes people will surrender to Everything. And what [00:34:00] you just said was you were intentional. You’re like, here’s the deal. These are the plans we have coming up. I would love it if you all were able to join us for this.

Cathy: Plan around these. Cause again, something that is important to me also is, is a family culture. Right? Like we, I want my girls to go have their own lives. They don’t need to worry about sitting around and taking care of me. But I also know that when we’re all together, it’s good. And we all have a good time.

Cathy: Right? So it’s like, I kind of feel like as the mom and the family, and I think you and I together, we create that. I’m still, you know, in my sorority, Todd, do you know what my position was? So I’m still a social chair in terms of in my family. I am going to create the events and say, these are some things we’re going to do.

Cathy: And then sometimes my girls are like, here’s some events we want to do. Great. Like I’m, it’s, I don’t have to be in control of it all, but I might set the initial tone for like, this is what we want to do. If in there and believe me, you guys, there are times when I said, I’m like, this is what we want to do.

Cathy: And one of my girls is like, I can’t because of this, or I’m not gonna be home in time or [00:35:00] whatever. And that’s okay. Yeah. It’s, there’s, there’s room to breathe in this plan, but you can have a lot of things at once. I think the thing we never want to do is hold so tight to something because when you hold too tight to something, it cracks.

Cathy: You’ve always got to like, um, you know, we’ve talked about tree metaphors, like the reason that branches, have some like movement in them is because the wind blows, right? And if the wind blows and the branches are all so rigid or like old or, or decayed, they’ll crack. And we want like branches that can like flow in the wind.

Cathy: So we as a family are like, We’re like a tree. 

Todd: Yeah. Right? And the roots are the thing that gives it strength. Correct. Hopefully everything we’ve been doing for the last 21 years is a representation of those roots. 

Cathy: Yeah. And sometimes things need to be renegotiated, you know, like sometimes I’ll have a plan.

Cathy: I’m like, Ooh, moving forward. This is what we’re doing. And it’s like, Oh, wait a second. Not [00:36:00] only do I need to shed an old idea that I had because my girls have different needs now. I need to expand and have an understanding of of um, a new way of seeing things. Yeah. And so we’re, that is, that, it’s almost like breathing, right?

Cathy: Like, like breathe in and then breathe out. Like that is, it’s like expanding, contracting, expanding, contracting. And, and you, I think the belief that, that ever ends Is not true. You are constantly letting go of old ideas and bringing in new ideas. And no matter their age, you know, when your kids are little, you think you figure it out and you’re like, we finally got it.

Cathy: Sleep schedule. These are the foods they like. These are the restaurants we can go to. Here’s their nap schedule. And in nothing, it changes. And if you try and hold tight to that, It’s going to be harmful to them and to you. You have to move with it. Oh, so same with marriage Todd because we started with marriage.

Cathy: Yeah, right so it’s like [00:37:00] our ability to wrestle with this kind of acceptance like Even as you and I you know, we’ve been married 22 years. 

Speaker 4: Yep 

Cathy: And I’m a lot different than I was Hopefully we both are. Five years ago. Oh, for sure you are. 

Todd: Well, I think that’s, uh, I think that’s sometimes where marriages get into trouble when one person evolves.

Todd: Right. And the other one’s like, no, I’m still, still here. And that’s tough. Like I, and I’m going to be different when I’m 62 versus when I’m 52. Right. And so will you. And that’s a good thing. Yellow coats? Maybe. Maybe I’ll get some yellow coats. Maybe. Yeah, 

Cathy: and that is like, I think the idea of, I want to go back and be like we were when we were 20.

Cathy: It’s silly. Now we can bring in parts of our 20 something selves. We can go to, Todd and I go to a lot of concerts where it’s like people we used to love in our 20s or we’ll like go to Vegas because we feel more like we’re 20. Like it’s okay to play with the idea. [00:38:00] But the whole idea to like hold your partner accountable and say you’re different than you were when we got married.

Cathy: Well duh. I hope so. Right? 

Todd: Yeah. And if you’re listening to this podcast, you have some type of growth mindset, 

Cathy: right? 

Todd: And hopefully whoever you happen to partner with has a similar one. I think one of my buddies is going to be on a radio show today and he asked me any tips because it’s going to be about parenting.

Todd: Okay. He’s a younger father. His kid’s two years old. Okay. And it’s a lot about that. Personal growth. So if it’s, um, can I. Can I continue to work on myself? And my hope is my partner continues to work on herself and that is what I think is one of the foundational reasons why you and I are doing as well as we are.

Todd: It’s because we both have that mindset and there’s other couples who I know, friends who get divorced and one’s going in one direction and the other is staying still. 

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: Or one’s going in one direction, the other is going in the opposite direction. That’s not good. Um, Gaddis in his book Getting to [00:39:00] Zero talks about rowing the boat.

Cathy: Yeah. We have 

Todd: to like row the boat in the same direction. Um, And you got to take care of the boat. 

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: Uh, what a lot of parents do is they take care of the boats of their children and they forget about the boat with their relationship. 

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: With their partner. 

Cathy: Yeah. And they, and sometimes we’ll say things like, well, I only have energy or time to do one or the other, you know, which is again, an old belief system.

Cathy: And again, I know, like I, I, everyone’s experience is different, but there have been times where When Todd and I, you know, we were helping my parents, helping his parents, helping our children, help being together and doing our work. Like there are many different ways of, and, and we still had to be like, okay, we have two hours for a date.

Cathy: Like, Let’s go eat really quick or let’s be together. Like there are ways to do this. Um, and like Todd said, sometimes it’s not a good, things happen and [00:40:00] it doesn’t end up being that way. You put in all the work and it’s just not going to work out. And sometimes the shedding is starting anew, 

Todd: you know? Um, so I, I’m just trying to be devil’s advocate here.

Todd: Um, so we started the podcast talking about moving towards acceptance and I believe in moving towards acceptance. And so do you. And at the same time, I feel like that’s almost. Contradictory to what, what I just said, which is, you know, hopefully, like, let’s say I’m doing personal growth and you’re just staying still and you’re stagnant and you’re not interested in evolving, is my move to accept you as you are, or is my move to help you become more into personal growth?

Cathy: Yeah. Oh yeah. That’s the thing. That’s acceptance is moment by moment, right? Like. If you have a partner who, especially if they’re going through something, they’re depressed or they have a, you know, an aging parent that they’re taking care of or your kid is really going through something or, you know, they’re going through something personal, right?

Cathy: Maybe a [00:41:00] medical issue, then you’re accepting them for that time, that in this experience they’re having right now, there’s a different kind of expectation, you know, like I, Um, you’ve gone through times with me that are really hard, and I don’t think that when I was depressed or grieving that you were like, um, if this marriage is going to work, you need to be different today.

Cathy: You were like, I understand where you are and I accept that. This is moment by moment. 

Todd: Well, what’s interesting about that time, because you did have, it wasn’t a midlife crisis because it happened when you were like late thirties, 

Cathy: but it was kind of inching up on midlife, 

Todd: right? I don’t remember trying to accept, now believe me, I got plenty of flaws as a husband, as a father, blah, blah, blah, but I don’t remember trying to accept.

Todd: I think I really, were there times when it was difficult and you were not yourself? Of course. But I don’t remember. Having to try to accept. I think I just accept it. 

Cathy: Yeah, and I think that there were things that I told you that maybe were shocking about how I felt or you know What I was [00:42:00] going through but it didn’t really show up on the outside because one of the things I still kept parenting I still kept going to 

Todd: work.

Todd: Yeah, 

Cathy: so like you For the most part, you could go in your office and work and I would do things. You kept functioning 

Todd: really well while at the same time struggling in the background. 

Cathy: So I would say, Todd, I’m very depressed. Like this is what I’m going through. And he’d be like, Oh, really? But then I’d still get up in the morning and do things.

Cathy: And sometimes people can’t do that. Like there are moments, there are times where people hit a wall and hit the floor and that, and I did emotionally in many ways, but it was like over a longer period of time. So my point is, is that We, and you know, same with you Todd, like when you, Todd gets going on something man, like especially if it’s like a men living thing or something work related and he gets like super myopic and he just cannot see anything else.

Cathy: And when he is in that space, I, sometimes I’m like, hello, but a lot of times I’m like, he’s just needs to go through this. Like he’s like in it, you know what I mean? If it goes on for a while, I can kind [00:43:00] of feel like, okay. We got to come back out, but initially there’s like, I’m, this is just who Todd is. We were just having that conversation.

Cathy: I was saying, I think I have a funny story. Oh, okay. Go ahead. 

Todd: Well, my birthday weekend, it was a big men living party and facilitators thing. And I remember like, I was like going a mile a minute and I think I checked in with you on Saturday morning, which is about midway through the weekend. And you’re like, I’m just staying away from you.

Cathy: I did. I was. I’m like, I don’t want to be around you. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: And, and I don’t mean I don’t like you. And 

Todd: was that done through a lens of acceptance? I think it was, but I just want to check in with you. 

Cathy: You were like, what’s a little like cartoon character that’s like really zoomy? Zone. Zone. Zone. Yeah. 

Todd: Uh, the, uh, devil, the Tasmanian devil, 

Cathy: a little like that.

Cathy: Or road, 

Todd: uh, 

Cathy: road runner maybe. And, and I just am not, I don’t, I’m not very zoomy and I like kind of quiet and slowness and sometimes when Todd’s like that and Todd will try and be, um. You’ll try and like zoom in and be [00:44:00] like, how you doing? How you doing? How you doing? And I’m like, you know what? Don’t try and like connect with me right now.

Cathy: It’s the, you guys, this is so funny because this is a perfect example of like someone may say, Oh, but he’s trying to connect with you. Like connect with him. But it’s, it’s like an inauthentic connection. It’s like, it’s a, I want to make sure you’re okay so I can move on to the next thing and not feel bad.

Cathy: So basically what I said is just go do your thing. And then when you’re all done in four days, because he was basically gone Wednesday. And so I was like, just go and then we’ll catch up on Sunday. And we had kind of a deep talk about it, but it wasn’t awful. Like I, I, I get it. I really do get it and I want you to be happy.

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: It’s weird though because usually my men living weekends are I’m in Wisconsin or I’m in Arizona or I’m somewhere else. Yeah. And this one, I happen to be at home, which was foreign to me because I was still sleeping in our bed yet. I really wasn’t present. 

Cathy: No, not at all. And you’d come in after I’d fallen asleep, you’d get up before I’d go, you know, so, and some of that was intentional.

Cathy: I [00:45:00] didn’t really want to check in with you because the, I, like something, um, Oh, I was going to tell a story about that too, but, but I, I kind of just feel like I need to let go of you rather than try, oh, I know what I was going to say. Sometimes when you come home from big weekends, you’re all jacked up and I don’t want to talk to you about it all right away.

Cathy: And I’m not like, I don’t want to talk to you. I’m not mad. I’m just like, let’s give like this a day and then let’s go to brunch or whatever. And then I’ll ask you a ton of questions. But initially I, especially when the girls were little and I’d be working all weekend and be with them and be trying to be a mom.

Cathy: And then you’d come home all excited. I was like, I don’t have the energy for you. I can’t do all of this and hold all this space for you. So let’s give me a day and then I will be able to ask you questions without annoyance. 

Todd: What’s funny about that is, and I’m not saying I’m right. But when I get home from [00:46:00] a long weekend, I’m usually spent anyways.

Todd: I feel like you, um, still have this idea in your head, like, I’m so ready to share everything. 

Cathy: I 

Todd: don’t 

Cathy: think you’re ready to share. I just don’t even want to ask you. Yeah. I, I don’t, I’m not looking at you going, Oh my God, he’s dying to tell me everything. But my normal demeanor. is to say to someone, how are you?

Cathy: How was it? What was it like? How is this person? That’s how I interact with you. Yeah. When you come home, you may be white. You may not even want to talk to me, but I’m not even going to engage with you in that way. And that is, and I think. Well, in my 

Todd: defensive posture is no, we need to be connected the minute I walk back in the door, which is an irrational thought.

Todd: So I’m owning that. 

Speaker 4: Um, 

Todd: but yeah, I just always want to be connected with whoever I’m with and I’m back. I’m now with you. So let’s. Snap our fingers and reconnect without, without letting it organically happen. 

Cathy: Yeah. And, and there’s a lot of times like I have to have a [00:47:00] really strong sense of self before you and I talk about your work because there, um, this hasn’t happened a lot lately, or I can’t think of one.

Cathy: Maybe you can, but if you come in and start telling me things that you guys did or that you learned or this new thing you did that I’ve. done or I’ve told you about or I’ve gone through it’s a it’s I feel I end up feeling very unseen because I’ll be like Oh, you know, I did all this, you know somatic work when I was in my 40s And then all of a sudden you’re like we’re gonna focus on somatic work and I’m like, yeah That’s what I used to do and it’s this very fine line of there’s no reason to be annoyed And at the same time, there’s a feeling of you, the, you know, you’re telling me something new and I wish you, don’t we all, this is not just about Todd.

Cathy: This happens all the time where someone comes in and they try and teach you something versus saying, Hey, I know that you know about this. Let me tell you my experience. [00:48:00] Then I’m totally open. 

Speaker 4: Right. 

Cathy: But when someone comes in, it’s like, there’s this new thing called this and Maybe I talked about that for five years.

Cathy: And so it just feels, so the reason I’m saying that is because that happens sometimes and that’s okay, but I have to be really grounded. Before I have those conversations or else I’m going to be snappy. 

Todd: Well, that’s one of those things. I think that used to trip us up a lot more five years ago, whenever that was.

Todd: And that doesn’t mean we don’t get tripped up with other stuff and we probably still get tripped up with that a little bit, but I feel like that’s something that we’ve kind of figured out a bit. 

Cathy: A little bit. Yeah. I think so too. I think it still comes up though, cause we do such similar work. And I think you, I think there is, um, I may not tell you that anymore because I think I’ve, you know, like I said, I’ve, to your point, I’m more grounded before we have the conversations.

Cathy: I’m a little less, um, I think we’ve had enough deep conversations about where that comes from in me, you know, that discomfort. So I don’t feel like I need to drive that point home as much anymore. [00:49:00] Yeah. But we’re just. The things we do overlaps and, you know, the, and where we get our information is often from different places.

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: But 

Cathy: anyway. 

Todd: So we’re 50 minutes in. Not quite sure how much we talked about moving towards acceptance. 

Cathy: Well, all of this is moving toward acceptance. 

Todd: Yeah. I feel like I, let me rephrase. I feel like I didn’t give you like, okay, cause you came in with a preconceived plan and I feel like I didn’t give you any space for that, but maybe I did.

Todd: I don’t know. 

Cathy: Well, um, I think the, if I was going to just summarize. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Cathy: I think whenever we’re in a relationship, if it be a partnership, you know, that’s what I was starting with, but I realized it happens with parenting too, is acceptance really is The, the, what acceptance is, is letting go of old ideas and creating space for new ideas.

Cathy: Mm-Hmm. that is acceptance. Yeah. Right. And, and so acceptance. I think sometimes in the wor, when we use that word, we use it kind of similar to forgiveness. [00:50:00] Like, well then I just accept you, you treat me horrible, but I accept it. Yeah. That’s not what I’m talking about. Yeah. Um. Like with that, say you’re with somebody who treats you horrible, a friend, you know, partner, whatever.

Cathy: Part of that could be letting go of ideas that you need to stay with this person and expanding into the idea of, there’s another way I can get through this. And, and I’m going to accept that what I thought was something Is not what I thought it was. So I think that, you know, there’s no, here’s the three steps to acceptance.

Cathy: I don’t have that. What I’m talking about is the, um, I’ve noticed that a lot lately with certain people’s podcasts where every podcast is about, here’s the five steps, here’s the four steps. I’m like, how, how is that possible? But anyway, I know that’s just an organizational tool. 

Speaker 4: Sure. 

Cathy: But the whole idea of just, um, you know, it’s an expanding and contracting all the time.

Cathy: I think the, the bottom line for parents and, you know, people in a marriage or a partnership listening to this [00:51:00] is that’s how it’s supposed to be. I think a lot of times we think there’s going to be a time when we just rest. That we just stop and we’re like, wow, now this is easy. And while I don’t necessarily think it needs to be hard all the time, I don’t think it ever ends.

Cathy: I think if, if something is alive, if a relationship is alive, it’s constantly expanding and contracting. Right. Same with us. You know, we, anybody who, like Todd and I have so many stories about people who have retired and then they are like, okay, now I can rest. And guess what’s, what happens in like two or three days.

Cathy: They’re like, well, what do I do? Yeah. I get 

Todd: a little restless. 

Cathy: Yeah. You, you need to have something to wrestle with. So if you’re wrestling. That’s not a bad thing, right? 

Todd: No doubt. 

Cathy: You know, because I, I think Todd and I were, um, talking about, maybe it was last week on the show, but maybe it was when we were alone, about how boring we would be if we were the same.

Cathy: [00:52:00] Yeah. And I think historically, something I had to shed is that my sensitivity or my emotionality is a, is a hindrance, is a problem. It makes Todd’s life more difficult. Sometimes it does. But it also makes our life more colorful. And so I think something I had to let go of is that I was a problem. I, I originally, again, old school, everything that I brought to Todd, I’d be like, God, he’s so chill.

Cathy: Nothing bothers him. He’s so, I’m just a problem because I have all these thoughts and needs and desires. And now that we know each other so well, he did too. He just didn’t know how to, you know, Express 

Todd: them. Verbalize. Express. 

Cathy: And sometimes didn’t know that he could access them. And so I just think whatever you’re coming in with, there’s like a, like who you are is good.

Cathy: Like you’re, you know, we all have things to share. Well, 

Todd: and I guess maybe in closing that’s, you know, we talk about moving towards acceptance. It’s self [00:53:00] acceptance. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Todd: What you just said is you thought that because I was less, you know, Emotionally volatile and you were you had more emotions that you were doing it wrong.

Todd: No, I’m actually doing it right for me for me Now my problem is I still am struggle with acceptance of how I my relationship with emotional variability Mm 

Speaker 4: hmm, 

Todd: and I know that once I have more acceptance of myself then that who I am, how I show up, my, if I cry a lot, if I laugh a lot, if I laugh a little bit, if I never, whatever, if I can accept how I’ve shown up in these first 52 years of my life, if I could truly let that acceptance seep in, then I think more will happen for me from an emotional standpoint.

Cathy: And I think, interesting we’re talking about somatic, I think the shift that you’re going through in this decade is, um, and again, it sounds so generic, like getting out of your head and getting into your heart. Let me say it differently. You are very [00:54:00] mental in your planning. You think life, you’ll be, you’ll say to yourself, I should be happy and you’ll think it and you’ll plan it and you’ll act it.

Cathy: And what you’re learning to do is just to be where you are. And then when you have something that’s funny, you’re just funny rather than I’m gonna be funny now. Yeah. You’re not so, um, planned, you know, you’re, you’re kind of just moving into who you are. 

Todd: Well, I think I just shared on the Zen talk last Friday, maybe it was in my therapy session.

Todd: I don’t know. It was one or the other. And I go play pickleball in the mornings and I’m judging myself while I’m playing pickleball that I’m too competitive and not having enough fun. While I’m playing. While you’re playing. 

Cathy: So. I know. And, and there is like that kind of voice. I think we all have it. Um, you know, I, I get frustrated in yoga sometimes when I’m like ready to let go of a pose and I let go.

Cathy: And then the teacher is like, okay, now you can let go. I’m like, you should have said it before because now I feel like I didn’t do it well. What 

Todd: about when you’re in standing poses [00:55:00] for the first 40 minutes and then the teacher has you go onto the mat. Okay. And you’re laying flat or whatever, you’re on the mat and then they have you stand right back up.

Todd: I got very mad. How much acceptance do you have? 

Cathy: I have very little acceptance and that is a teaching technique, which is push your, not push yourself, like push your body, but like you thought we weren’t going to get up again. Yeah. They 

Todd: mess with you. They 

Cathy: mess with you. That’s a very yogic thing to do in some ways.

Cathy: And I, but I don’t dig it. 

Todd: Well, that’s the thing. Like if we could like, Oh, I. I like surprises, like, and this is a Tony Robbins thing, he’s like, BS, you like the surprises that you enjoy, but you don’t like the surprises that you don’t like. 

Cathy: Nobody, because there’s, again, we’re all planned, like I’m sitting here saying, you know, Todd gets planned in his head, so do I, I have a plan, um, but a lot of times my emotionality is not there.

Cathy: by my brain. I have an experience where I’m like, I don’t even know why I’m crying, kind of thing. Um, and so sometimes that can be feel erratic too. And so that’s the thing is there’s a, um, inability to [00:56:00] do this whole idea of acceptance in, in so many micro ways. Not microwaves. 

Todd: No, that’d be weird. 

Cathy: That would be strange.

Cathy: But micro spacebar ways, w a y s, that then come to a greater acceptance, you know? Um, I know we’re ending here, so, you know, I’m going to go back to Tim McGrath for a second. The song that I like so much, um, off his new album. And by the way, Todd and I were watching an interview with him and he was talking about how his new album is so different because he’s focusing now more on a legacy for himself.

Cathy: Like, it’s not that he’s that old. I mean, Keith Or not Keith, uh, Mick Jagger’s 80 years old and, you know, still doing it and Tim’s 57. But Tim is thinking of himself as a father, as he’s now an actor, or he’s been an actor for a long time, but he’s on TV a lot. He’s like, what is my legacy going to be? And that’s the, his album is called Standing Room Only.

Cathy: And that song, the words to it, I just think are really great. Like what, you know, [00:57:00] who am I going to be in this world and who, who am I going to choose to be? in this world because that’s his point of his song is like, I, I need to start thinking about these things and not just kind of bulldozing my way through life or, or, you know, being unconscious in the decisions I make.

Todd: Um, I’m going to play that song as we exit the podcast, but I just want to remind anybody, if you want to join an amazing community of moms and dads, uh, try joining Team Zen. Uh, it’s 25 bucks a month. You get a free shirt, water bottle, or warm socks. Women’s group. Women’s group and many other things. It’s 25 bucks a month.

Todd: Cancel at any time. 

Cathy: Q& A’s with Todd and I. Lots of good stuff. We actually have made some announcements on Team Zen that we haven’t made here. 

Todd: Yeah, you guys don’t know about it. You people don’t 

Cathy: know. 

Todd: So we would love to see you there. And then Jeremy Kraft. He’s a bald headed beauty. He does painting and remodeling throughout the Chicagoland area.

Todd: 630 956 1800. And I’m going to press play [00:58:00] on, uh, good old Tim McGrath. I 

Clip: was born and raised in a mosh pit in an old place. Nothing you can do to stop me from getting loose. I’m going to be somebody that’s worth remembering. I never liked it when I died. I was standing room all day. Standing room all day. I only take my grudges and my old regrets.

Clip: I only take my grudges and my old regrets.