Cathy and Todd discuss Netflix’s ‘Love on the Spectrum’ and why the people and families featured make it such a good watch. They discuss the importance of loving, and liking, our children just as they are, and how this allows them to thrive, and they analyze Harrison Butker’s speech and why it was offensive in many different ways.

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The Rich Tapestry of Love, Parenting, and Personal Growth: Insights from “765 Love on the Spectrum”

In a world increasingly characterized by digital connections and fleeting interactions, a heartwarming series has emerged on Netflix, providing viewers with profound lessons on love, acceptance, and the human desire for companionship. “Love on the Spectrum” has not only captivated audiences around the globe but also sparked important conversations about neurodiversity in romantic relationships.

The Interplay of Humor and Depth

The episode opens with the casual and relatable banter of Todd and Cathy, encapsulating the essence of their dynamic. Their conversation weaves through light-hearted commentary on their own quirks and the nuances of communication within their marriage. It’s this blend of humor and depth that sets the stage for the deeper explorations to come.

Finding Zen in Parenting

Zen Parenting Radio, as described by Todd, offers listeners an opportunity to feel outstanding through self-understanding. The underlying message is powerful— the well-being of a child is largely influenced by a parent’s self-awareness. This forms a recurring theme throughout the episode, echoing in the laughter and earnest discussions between Todd and Cathy.

Love on the Spectrum: A Reflective Review

A significant part of the episode is devoted to their impressions of “Love on the Spectrum,” a show that follows individuals with autism as they navigate the world of dating and relationships. Todd and Cathy’s reflections go beyond mere commentary; they engage in a profound reflection on what the show represents— the universal desire for connection, respect, and love, transcending the barriers of neurodiversity.

Their discussion is insightful, touching upon the inherent humanity and vulnerability displayed in the series. The co-hosts commend the show for its authentic portrayal of its participants and the supportive environments created by their families. Through their eyes, “Love on the Spectrum” serves as a mirror reflecting the shared human experience, pushing the audience to confront preconceived notions about love and relationships in the spectrum of neurodiversity.

A Personal Touch

Perhaps the most captivating part of their conversation revolves around the personal experiences and growth of Todd and Cathy themselves. They transparently share their own journeys of parenting, the trials of self-discovery, and the lessons learned from being part of a community. This vulnerability acts as a bridge, connecting them with listeners on a deeper level.

Concluding Thoughts

“765 Love on the Spectrum” is more than an episode of a podcast; it’s a canvas where the colors of parenting, personal growth, and the essence of human connection blend together to create a compelling picture. Todd and Cathy, with their trademark mix of heartfelt insight and humor, invite listeners to look beyond the surface and find the zen in their own parenting journey, to embrace the spectrum of love in all its forms, and to understand that at the core of our being, we all seek the same things: respect, understanding, and a whole lot of love.

As the episode draws to a close, it leaves us with a powerful reminder of the importance of seeing people for who they truly are, of loving and liking our children without preconditions, and of the incredible potential for growth when we listen, really listen, to one another.



Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd, this is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 764, I think. May look it up. 765. Check that. Uh, why listen to Zen Parenting Radio? Because you’ll feel outstanding and always remember our motto, which is that the best predictor of a child’s well being is a parent’s self understanding.

Todd: On today’s show, uh, Kathy’s got some things cooked up and I, you and I have been watching Um, a show on Netflix. 

Cathy: Well, my thing that I, as you just said, have cooked up. You’ve cooked it up. Is from that show. Oh, 

Todd: it is? 

Cathy: Yeah. 

Todd: Perfect. [00:01:00] Um, but we didn’t Netflix and chill. We just Netflixed. Right? Right. Okay. Because I now know what that means.

Cathy: Right. I’m glad. If you don’t 

Todd: know what that means, you got to go last week because we talked about slang with these younglings. 

Cathy: Mm hmm. 

Todd: And they talked a lot of, well, we, you quizzed me and I knew none of them and you knew most of them. 

Cathy: Correct. Yes. We, that’s a good one to make sure you use correctly. 

Todd: Yes.

Todd: That’s exactly right. So I’m just testing our audience to see if they’ve been listening lately, sweetie. Got 

Cathy: it. 

Todd: You with me? I’m with you. I’m with you. I’m with you. I’m with the government. What’s that from, sweetie? It’s 

Cathy: from My Blue Heaven. Yes. Todd has about four or five things that he says all the time.

Cathy: And you do them right before we start a show. Really? You do Rex in effect for a couple minutes. I 

Todd: want to do zoom, zoom, zoom, I want to boom, boom. It’s like 

Cathy: he gets into this weird state of consciousness and he does the same thing. And I sometimes want to be like, Don’t do that. But I also feel like, why does it bother me?

Todd: I’m the duck shaking everything off, getting ready for the podcast. 

Cathy: I wish you had new things to say, but maybe I say the [00:02:00] same things and I’m not aware of this. There’s 

Todd: nothing new over here. 

Cathy: You say the same things. I 

Todd: know. I’m just, I just said. Oh, I get it. You’re right. 

Cathy: You’re right. Sorry. I misunderstood that.

Cathy: I was 

Todd: agreeing with you, my darling. Got it. My voice sounds very deep, but I think it’s from a long, awesome weekend. Um, so, um, You have a Zen parenting moment, but we talked about it on the podcast last week. So, yeah, 

Cathy: so we don’t need to, I did a Zen parenting moments on Substack now. FYI. Um, if you are already subscribing, you’re getting it, but if you are on Substack, you can follow or subscribe.

Cathy: Um, and it last week I talked about slang. I also, um, Have a new Instagram page just for me, Kathy Cassani Adams. Just you, 

Todd: sweetie. Not me. 

Cathy: Right. Not Todd has his own Instagram page. Right. Yes. You have your own page. Do I post it? No, you don’t post it. But you have one. 

Todd: Nice. Um. I’m so happy about having that one.

Todd: How many followers do I have? I have no idea. 

Cathy: I’ve never. How many people am 

Todd: I 

Cathy: following? You have one picture up there and it’s [00:03:00] Calvin and Hopps. That’s all you have. Isn’t 

Todd: that all we need as human beings? 

Cathy: Maybe. I think so. I just wanted my own page because my, one of my kids, not all my kids, but you know, she doesn’t love being alone.

Cathy: me commenting on her pictures of Zen Parenting Radio because then people are like, what is that? And then, you know, it’s, I think it can be difficult. I was actually just listening to a podcast this morning. When your parents are in a world of either, like my parents were teachers, that was tough. Your dad was a cop, that’s tough.

Cathy: If your parent was a minister, preacher, something like that, that can be tough. And I think if your parents are in the parenting realm, Um, I don’t, I don’t know if it’s tough or it’s just something that I think, I think we handled it well as the girls were growing up because I stayed pretty much away from their school, like let them have their own lives.

Cathy: Like I wasn’t like trying to get 

Todd: super involved. Except for the fact that we went in and taught at our daughter’s grade school about emotional intelligence. 

Cathy: Yeah, but that was like one year, and that teacher we [00:04:00] knew really well, and JC didn’t really care. At least not at that point. 

Todd: The reason JC didn’t care is because we’re awesome.

Cathy: Like, I’m not saying we’ve never done anything in this community. We do things all the time. We used to host movies at York Theatre. Like, we’ve been in the community, but I’ve tried to not be super over involved in their school stuff. Right. Does that make sense? It totally does. And 

Todd: I think there’s like this, just a default.

Todd: Parents are embarrassing. That’s just the bottom line. Well, and it’s like Especially if we’re doing what we’re doing. 

Cathy: Right. And how can we honor that space? Like, you know, I think I told you this before, we said it on a podcast before, but all my girls are super supportive of what we do and they’re very proud and they love it.

Cathy: But there’s also this line of like, okay, but I don’t need my friends listening to your podcast. You know what I mean? Like, we don’t, there’s nothing embarrassing about them per se, but it’s just, it’s just kind of a line. And, but then I told you at the same time, like, Cameron was like, yeah, but then when people like try and say things like, oh, your parents do a podcast, just like everyone else, she gets really defensive about it.

Cathy: Like, no, they’ve been doing it forever. So [00:05:00] there’s just this line that I try and walk with them. I think it’s something that, um, I ask them, you know, do you want me to do this? Do you not want me to do this? And my daughter doesn’t care if I like her pictures. None of them do. But commenting is on Parenting Radio is something else.

Cathy: So my point is I wanted Kathy Cassani Adams so I could comment as myself. I could post things that have nothing to do with you. I could talk about pop culture, because I like to do that. Um, I could just do, um, my own stuff. 

Todd: What on earth has, do you have that has nothing to do with me? A 

Cathy: lot. Like I, I like to do a lot of feminist stuff.

Cathy: I like to post about menopause. I like to talk about, like I said, I posted something about Greta Van Fleet today. Like, I’m not saying you don’t care about these things, but you don’t do anything on our social networking, but you get all the credit. of it. Does that make sense? I 

Todd: work so hard at it, it’s not even funny.

Todd: Isn’t Todd doing a great job with everything? 

Cathy: Credit is a gross word because it’s not like I’m keeping tabs on credit, but people are like, yeah, Zen Parenting Radio, and I’m doing all that on social media. 

Todd: Isra, I’m [00:06:00] in charge of, uh, pressing play on the music. Yes. I’m trying to think of what I do. You are a producer of this show and you 

Cathy: are great.

Todd: I do that, sweetie. 

Cathy: And all the 

Todd: clips. And then I open my mouth and something comes out. 

Cathy: Yes. 

Todd: And then I edit it, which basically means I put the outro on and then that’s it. 

Cathy: And then you, you do a great job. Like I couldn’t do this show if you were not here. It’s not, but it’s like something. Do you want to know what happened?

Cathy: What? 

Todd: If you weren’t here on this podcast, let’s just pretend. I’m going to pretend with you. Hey everybody. Welcome to Zen Parenting Radio. This is Todd Adams. Um, this is podcast number 765. I 

Cathy: know what you would do. You’d talk about men living in Austin. How 

Todd: about the PGA? You’d talk about the PGA. How about Shoffley?

Todd: Do you see that putt go in at the end? Oh, I thought you were talking about the guy who got arrested. No, I’m not talking about Shuffler. I’m talking about Shoffley. 

Cathy: Yeah, so first of all, the fact, cause I’ve mixed this up twice this weekend, and I feel like people have been annoyed at me. [00:07:00] Say those two names again.

Todd: Shoffley. 

Cathy: And? 

Todd: Shuffler. 

Cathy: Okay. They’re so close. They 

Todd: are. 

Cathy: The fact that the winner sounds just like the guy who’s ranked number one. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s a, it’s a, I’m sure it’s a common mistake. 

Todd: That would be it. I don’t, I don’t understand how people do singular podcasts. You, you, you’re, you do great on that.

Todd: I know you do great. I like 

Cathy: doing that. 

Todd: I just be like, I need somebody across from me to talk to. 

Cathy: Yeah. I think it’s much better having the two of us. I think if I did a podcast by myself, people wouldn’t like it either. Like, and I say that, but that’s not fair. Cause there’s a lot of people I listen to who do podcasts by themselves and they’re, they’re great.

Cathy: Well, a lot of other parenting podcasters do. And um, I listen to, there’s one woman I used to follow, she was a parenting coach and she talked the whole time. And then there’s some writer, um, podcasts that I listened to and they talked the whole time. 

Todd: Um, I used to love Rob Bell. I don’t listen to Rob. I love Rob Bell, but I don’t listen to his podcast anymore.

Todd: I’m looking at my feed right now and I think if there’s any, Morgan Housel, he’s a financial guy. He, he does these [00:08:00] little five minute podcasts. But almost all of them is, are conversational. 

Cathy: Well, and everything is, you know, some people are really gifted in that area of like talking and making their points on their own.

Cathy: It’s almost like a good, I don’t want to call it a speech, but they do a good job bringing it all together. And then some people, depending on who the listener is, they either prefer a conversation or they prefer some kind of lesson. And so this is all very in the eye of the beholder, you know? Yeah.

Cathy: There’s no right or wrong, but I know you and I like to have conversation. But, interestingly, you know, we’ve said before, Todd and I get inundated with emails about, Hey, I have a new book, let me be on your show. Or I’ve, you know, all these people who are looking to use podcasts as a way to market their material.

Cathy: And we know right away if they listen because we don’t really have guests. Yeah, you’re barking 

Todd: up the wrong tree. Yeah, 

Cathy: like we do sometimes, I know people are like, well, yeah, I’ve been on it. Or you, sometimes we do. One out 

Todd: of every 40. 

Cathy: Exactly. So, you know, and there are friends of ours that we would do [00:09:00] anything for.

Todd: Bottom line is I just don’t want to share my space. That’s the bottom line. 

Cathy: You know what it is for me? 

Todd: What? 

Cathy: I, once these people are here and it’s scheduled, and usually, to be honest, the people that we have had on, except for a few that I can think of, are people that I really admire. where I’m like, I want to meet this person, right?

Cathy: Because I’ve read their book or we’ve been talking and I’m in contact with this person or, or like they’re good friends. You know what I mean? There are already people that we talk to all the time. And I can’t remember what I was going to say about it. Oh, I know what I was going to say. I’m the one bringing, I was just gonna say, I’m the one bringing them in.

Cathy: You’re not really, you are very chill about it. And once they’re here, I’m really glad. Um, but prior to that, I have a lot of concern about, Will we be able to do it on time? Um, you know, schedule conflicts. It becomes more difficult to do a podcast when you’re depending on other people. 

Todd: Well, and I don’t know if this relates at all.

Todd: Okay. But, uh, I had a big men living weekend this [00:10:00] weekend and one of my good friends stayed with us last night. And this has to do with taking care of people. And you’re like, okay. Are we all set with our overnight guest? I’m like, yeah, we’re all set. You’re like, uh, you, you had these concerns about blankets and pillows and bathrooms and there’s, and I don’t have any of those concerns.

Cathy: I know. And, and like all things, I think I can come in with being less anxious, but I think you should care because if you’re going to invite someone into your home, you can’t just be like, okay, here, like people need to feel welcome and they need to understand you. You know, where they go to the bathroom and here’s your towel and here’s the expectation.

Todd: Yeah, there was no setup for me. I’d be like in the closet, that’s where the bathroom is, have a good night. 

Cathy: And it doesn’t work that way for most people. I totally, you know, I give you like lots of props for your chill, um, Demeanor, but I also think sometimes there’s like an ability to be a little more conscientious because [00:11:00] then Sometimes that does end up falling on me where I’m gonna clean it up Yeah, I’m gonna put everything away and you’re like what and I’m like if I didn’t do that you would be concerned Yeah, 

Todd: you know what?

Todd: I mean? What’s funny is he we have a pull out couch and he didn’t pull it out Why didn’t you pull it out? He’s like I don’t want to make the bed 

Cathy: Yeah, understandable. And he’s like I think a lot of people do that. But he’s 

Todd: really tall, and that couch does not accommodate, so Not 

Cathy: built 

Todd: for men. Anyway, I don’t know how we got started on that.

Todd: All right, so real quick. Yeah. Team Zen. Yeah. If anybody wants some Zen parenting swag, water bottle, warm, fuzzy socks, perhaps? 

Cathy: And then just one more thing, because if you give them too many things to think about 

Todd: Okay, what are my Fuzzy 

Cathy: socks, a water bottle And how about the mug? Yeah, the mug. Okay. 

Todd: So if you sign up this month, you will get one of those things for free.

Todd: I’m just going to send it out when you signed up. Uh, I do want to say hi to Danielle in Evanston who was with us and then she fell back, fell off and now she just rejoined us. People do 

Cathy: that 

Todd: a lot. Yeah. 

Cathy: And I, and I don’t [00:12:00] think they fall off because they don’t like it. I think that they’re like, you know what, we have a few months off because of what’s going on.

Cathy: And then they come back when they, you know, want something. And I, Let me say that differently. They come back when they’re ready. And I really appreciate that. It’s part of why I don’t like to, it’s part of why I like to say, uh, month by month because you’re, our lives get busy. And if I was paying for something and I wasn’t using it at all, that, and I would, I’d be frustrated.

Cathy: Yeah. So, 

Todd: uh, so, um, just click on Team Zen in the show notes to learn more. Okay. All right. Love on the spectrum. 

Cathy: Yeah. So Todd, so all of my girls watch Love on the Spectrum on Netflix and they’ve told me about it, especially my oldest daughter, JC. She loves it. Um, and she has been asking me a lot. Have you seen this?

Cathy: Or do you know who this is? Or whatever. So Todd and I finally started watching what, three weeks ago? Uh, not even. Not even? Yeah. Gosh, we’re going fast. I know. And that’s, that’s what’s so interesting. This is 

Todd: a show I can binge. 

Cathy: Yes! And I said to [00:13:00] Todd last night, because we were watching one, this is one of the only shows my phone, I have no idea where my phone is.

Cathy: Like, there’s a lot of shows I watch, and oftentimes they’re like an hour long, or it’s a movie. And so I sometimes check things on my phone or whatever, you know, like there’s moments where I look away and I don’t do that. 

Todd: You’re locked in. I’m locked in. So some people, not everybody knows this show. So will you explain what it is?

Todd: Or maybe I’ll play the trailer. Sure, go ahead. Um, this is the trailer. Um, I don’t know if I should do season two trailer, I’ll just do one of them. Just do one 

Clip: of 

Todd: them. 

Clip: Are you looking 

Todd: for love? Yes, 

Clip: unquestionably so. I don’t want to be alone. I want to find someone. I haven’t dated in 33 years. Oh. You could imagine I have to kiss many frogs to find the right guy.

Clip: Nope. Everyone is different. Correct. Whether you’re on the spectrum or not. We are, however, all looking for the same thing. Respect, understanding, and a whole lot of love. My autism. It affects my social interactions. We’re going to Google date topics. Do you see this in bold right [00:14:00] here? The stakes are so much higher.

Todd: Through this 

Clip: process, he might find love. Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Todd: It’s two minutes long. Is that enough? 

Clip: That’s a, that’s good. 

Todd: Okay. 

Clip: Would be somebody who can depend on me. We want to depend on each other. To have a lovely lady, that would be an absolute dream. Sometimes it can be challenging to find someone who doesn’t write her off based off the diagnosis.

Clip: Sorry, I’m kind of nervous. You okay? 

Cathy: I’m nervous too. Connor’s in season two. Bummer. Yeah, yeah, um, I love all of those people. I, I um, I wanted to like, every single one that came up I wanted to be like, Danny. 

Todd: Yeah, right. You know, like 

Cathy: I want to like say who everybody is, but I didn’t want to be annoying. So, um, so that was the season one trailer.

Cathy: There’s been two seasons of Love on the Spectrum. And, and I. I don’t think I thought much about it. I mean, I’m a big bachelor, bachelorette person, so I do like reality dating shows. Um, or I historically have. I’ve missed the [00:15:00] last couple. I missed The Golden Bachelor. Can you believe that? Everybody loved it and I didn’t watch it.

Cathy: But typically, well, it didn’t turn out so well as we know. They got married and now they’re getting divorced. How many of them 

Todd: are still together out of the 48 seasons that we’ve done? Well, Golden Batchers only, there’s only been one. No, no, just in general. 

Cathy: Who’s the fire guy? 

Todd: No, there’s 

Cathy: another couple, um, I think her name starts with a J, Jojo.

Cathy: I think she’s still married. Not 

Todd: Jojo Siwa? No, 

Cathy: no. 

Todd: That’s a different story. Yes, it is. 

Cathy: There’s, there are some that are together and are married. I think, um, oh, she’s on the ringer now. Um, what is her name? She’s still married to Brian. I’m, I’m forgetting her name. Anyway, there are plenty, there are some, but it’s rare.

Cathy: I mean, this is a hard reality. I’m surprised 

Todd: anybody makes it through. It’s such a silly idea and it’s not the way most relationships start. 

Cathy: Right. And, and it’s not, um, It’s not a real world. [00:16:00] So, I guess my point is, is that you can fall in some kind of love, meaning where you’re like really attached to a person or where within the context they are the one that stands out to you.

Cathy: Um, I get the attr like, when people are like, this is fake, this isn’t real. I really think people are having experiences. Not everybody, but I think some people really feel like they have fallen in love. Now, will that sustain, uh, you know, sustainability? Stay on the test of time once you get thrown into the real world.

Cathy: I hate to connect this to something that’s not as great, but when it comes to addiction people get really like, oh good, this person’s going to rehab. Like, oh now this person’s going to, everything’s gonna be different. And when someone goes to rehab, that’s like, Step one, you have to then bring all of that learning and transition it into your real life.

Cathy: And it’s the integration that actually creates the change. Rehab is just the detox, the learning the tools, the acknowledging the addiction, and then friends, whatever. And then, you [00:17:00] know, then you have to integrate that, and that’s the work. So it’s the same thing when you get off this show. You just, you, can you transition that relationship 

Todd: to the real world?

Todd: That’s exactly right. So let’s get back to Love on the Spectrum. 

Cathy: Okay. 

Todd: Um, I will, I, do you want me to start or do you want to start? 

Cathy: Well, I’m going to go a certain direction, so why don’t you just share your feelings about it? 

Todd: So, um, I just want to say that I have, if you’ve listened to the show for a while, you have heard me talk about my, um, sometimes challenges with getting into my body from a feeling sensation.

Todd: And I just want to say, when I’m watching the show, my heart is beating. And I love it so much, and I don’t know what it is about it, and I don’t know if I even want to figure out what it is about this show. Some of it is about the way the men show up are in many ways so much [00:18:00] more, um, mature. than typical men.

Todd: Yeah. There’s so much nicer. Yeah. There’s so much kinder. There’s so much. They’re very respectful. They’re so respectful 

Cathy: of themselves and others, their 

Todd: partners, people they’re dating, their parents. I don’t know. And when I first, uh, I just knew I just fell in love with it, and if there’s anybody out there like me, and maybe this isn’t your jam, but if you’re like, I can’t get into my, my, you know, sorry to go archetypes, but my lover quadrant, like the Sweet, nobody 

Cathy: knows what that means.

Cathy: I’m glad I can say that back to you. I didn’t know if you were 

Todd: kidding or not. 

Cathy: Nobody knows what a lover quadrant means. You’re talking the ability to feel, I know. But when you say, I’m going to go into archetypes, that’s my thing. 

Todd: Right. I think you can like, understand lover means, you know, lover, the lover part of you, like the feeling part of me.

Todd: Right. And this show is a. [00:19:00] vehicle. It’s a bridge. It’s an entry point for me to just, just burst with love with these strangers on a screen. 

Cathy: Yeah. And it doesn’t always work out. 

Todd: No, it doesn’t. I, I do need to play a little bit of my guy, Connor. Okay. He’s my favorite. I don’t know what’s going to happen here, but.

Clip: Interesting question to ask. Um, why do you ask? Is my nose? 

Intro: Oh, no, no, no, no. It’s just, I was wondering if there are any foods you were allergic to. 

Clip: Not that I can think of. I just, I really don’t like the smell of peanut butter. I don’t know how it would happen, but every time I see a thing of peanut butter, I catch a whiff of it, like, oh.

Intro: Oh. Okay, let’s, uh, A 

Todd: lot of awkward silences on this show. 

Cathy: Yeah, and you know, you, the experience like, just to like start over with Love on the Spectrum, because [00:20:00] a lot of people have asked, are you, is there a making fun quality? Or is there, are we like, um, making light of something? And, and when I’m saying we, I mean people who are watching.

Cathy: That’s not how I feel at all. I can’t say. Speak for anybody else who watches the show, I can’t, I don’t know, but I can tell you that the producer, the guy who’s with their families, seems absolutely lovely. I actually started following him on Instagram last night. Everybody who’s on the show seems to really like him and feel safe with him.

Cathy: And I don’t think at all his intention, I think his intention is to do exactly what the trailer says. People who are, and it’s not, and it’s not just people on the spectrum, people who have been, who have Downs, people who have Williams syndrome, people who are just developmentally delayed in some way or have different kind of personalities.

Cathy: Everybody, everybody. Would like to find love and connection and there’s such a Misunderstanding that we have that we believe if there is if you’re different in one way Then you’re different in all the ways and that’s not at all the case And I think if you have worked with [00:21:00] people in any category that we would call different neurodiverse in any way Every, you know that.

Cathy: Yeah. You get it. You understand that we’re just all want the same thing, but a lot of people are removed. Um, 

Todd: well, and what it helps me with is, uh, because I’ve taken a deep dive. So when I see people on the street, Uhhuh, that are, uh, neurodiverse, Uhhuh, , I think I’m more much better equipped to be able to be with those people.

Cathy: Well, your statement is interesting ’cause What do you mean see people on the street? ’cause you don’t know. Who is neurodiverse? 

Todd: You don’t, but you can take guesses. 

Cathy: Well, you can’t, and I’m not trying to make you defensive. What I’m saying is I think some people could take offense to that because there is, you’re saying I see people when really there’s a lot of people who are neurodiverse and you have no idea.

Cathy: Totally 

Todd: true. Right. So you’re speaking 

Cathy: more of physical attributes. The people that present themselves neurodiverse. 

Todd: Yes. I feel like because I’ve taken a deep dive with these people, just observing them. Correct. I have much more understanding and it’s, it’s less. [00:22:00] Difference. Right. I mean, that’s the bottom line because I’ve been spending, whatever, eight hours with these people watching the screen.

Todd: It’s just, it helped, I think it, it, it, it’s gonna help me later today when I happen to run into somebody. I, I just, I will have a better ability to understand and connect. 

Cathy: Connect in a way that’s very typical. Yes. Do you know what I mean? And I mean, I’m not using typical in a, in a, In a neurological way, I mean, just typical, like, we all want the same thing, the respect and the understanding.

Cathy: And our ability to sit, cause you and I watch the show and there are a lot of awkward silences, but as JC always says, but yes, they’re uncomfortable sometimes. They say, wow, I’m uncomfortable. They, they share. Um. But it’s not as uncomfortable as we sometimes make it be, like we’re so, we’re such placaters sometimes in relationship that we can’t handle any kind of discomfort.

Cathy: And I think that, cause we just want everyone to like us and everything to go smoothly. And I think You know, one of the greatest gifts like if, um, and, and I think you and I can both say [00:23:00] this in, in some ways, maybe, maybe it was a little different, but the greatest gifts of my life have been, um, working with children, being with the elderly and working with people who are neurodiverse or who are, um, you know, even if it’d be, you know, Uh, so there’s neurodiversity, that’s its own thing, but people who have emotional challenges, people who have behavioral challenges, people who are categorized in a mental illness category, um, or just people who are struggling with whatever.

Cathy: These, the ability to do that in life as a career is the greatest, because then it’s, you, things don’t seem that How do I say this? You see the interconnectedness of all of us, right? Of course. It’s all the same. 

Todd: Well, yeah, like there’s one person like, you know, you know , Danny Danny’s a trip 

Cathy: Danny, 

Todd: and you know, she wants to find a partner and she talks about.

Todd: Sex and kissing and all these things. And, you know, they’re drinking [00:24:00] alcohol. Like, I didn’t know what, like what the, and I think it depends. It’s an individual choice for every other person, but you know, they’re drinking on the show and I’m like, Oh, that’s kind of cool. I didn’t, I didn’t know. I don’t, I don’t know.

Cathy: It’s enlightening. Yeah. It’s totally enlightening. I loved that. Cause Adan was like. He called his parents. He’s like, how long does it take for this alcohol to get through my system? And I was thinking about I was wondering is he driving or is he just worried about feeling? I didn’t know what the right what why that is the bottom line is 

Todd: We need I judge that we need to be with people in front of people Dealing with people and the only way that all people all people is by being with them And this is just a kind of a shortcut for me to be better at it when I run into somebody that is neurodiverse That’s all 

Cathy: well and the thing is that the and you know this there’s you know, there’s two kinds of research There’s data research, you know qualitative quantitative but there’s also like the kind of research where you’re removed and [00:25:00] then the research where you’re with people and actually talking to people and I so much more prefer that.

Cathy: Um, I think that I, we need data researchers. I’m very grateful, but sometimes when I’m reading a book or whatever it may be and someone’s sharing all this data with me, I’m like, do you know any of these people? Because like, this sounds so, um, It’s not alive at all. It’s so stagnant. It’s so 

Todd: absolute. And 

Cathy: it so doesn’t have the nuance in it because there’s like these declarations about that, you know, teen girls, this is what they’re experiencing.

Cathy: And I’m like, teen girls are not a monolith. There’s no, they’re not. All the same. Yes, there is some data about certain stats have gone up. I’ve seen that. I, in real time, I’ve seen that. But it doesn’t go up in the way, we terrify parents with this data and we don’t need to be that terrified. We just need to pay attention to the person that’s in front of us.

Cathy: So I just think that I agree with you. I, I’m very, um, grateful. And there’s a coming out. Yeah. Um, But one of the offshoots, and [00:26:00] again, Todd, you add whatever you want, because I know you may not be done talking about the show. Um. No, that’s fine. We can go. Uh, but is Tanner, who’s on season two. Yeah. Um. Love Tanner.

Cathy: Tanner is great and he is, uh, lovely in his demeanor and very excited to meet people. And he, um, his mom said something on the show that really Struck a nerve for me because I just agree with it so much and she said, you know, Tanner when she was when Tanner was young He was obviously different. She didn’t know exactly what was going on.

Cathy: I can’t remember when he was diagnosed But she said that she was working so hard to get him to have the right therapist to have the right physical therapy to have The the right teacher and she’s like and I was just I was absolutely On him and on the whole culture around them trying to get what he needed so he could be what?

Cathy: Different, you know better. Like what, what word? And I can’t remember what word she was using, but [00:27:00] she said, what? I realized it, we got to a point where I realized that Tanner just needed me to love him. Yes. As he was. And once she did that, he made friends, he opened up, he thrived. And did you find that clip by any chance?

Cathy: I did. 

Todd: I, I got a little 

Clip: bit of tan. Okay. 

Cathy: Go ahead. 

Clip: Have you ever been bullied before? 

Cathy: Yes. 

Clip: Okay. Hey, so I was bullied just one time. I was crying because I was upset by it. Have you ever punched someone when you got mad? 

Todd: No. 

Clip: That’s okay. It happens sometimes, like when we’re little. Okay? Okay, here comes our burgers.

Clip: Thank you, Reagan. Thank you, Reagan. 

Todd: He’s on a date 

Cathy: with 

Todd: Kate, who Todd loves Kate. I love Kate. Like, honestly, I feel it in my throat right now. He’s wearing a bow tie. I know. Like, this guy’s got more class than I do. Like, I’m not even kidding. He’s holding her chair out. I know. He has flowers for her. Uh huh.

Todd: She looks beautiful. She’s got her nails [00:28:00] done. Oh my god. Her lipstick on. I feel like crying right now. I know. I love, I love it. 

Cathy: I know. Well, and that’s the thing, is there is the pieces, I’m sure we could, you know, if you and I went deep, we could talk about the pieces that are missing. One of the pieces that’s not as obvious.

Cathy: I’m not saying there is no ego, because of course there’s ego. Like, think about James and his hair. Yeah. And he, the way he looks, he’s, James is very, very much thinks about his appearance, but it’s a different kind. It’s, it’s less, um, adapting to all the social norms and more about how they feel about themselves.

Cathy: And so there’s, uh, an authenticity to it that doesn’t feel like they’re trying to keep up with the Joneses. You know, there, there’s like an, I want to be my best self. Versus I want to be like everybody else. 

Todd: Can I give you a little bit of James? Yeah, sure. This is James opinion on women with pets. 

Clip: He doesn’t have any pets or any children, you know.

Clip: Yeah, it’s like, good, they’re therapeutic, they’re loving. Yeah, I know, but I think I don’t want to have to [00:29:00] compete with a pet for a woman’s attention. Oh, 

Todd: I love James. I love everybody on this show. 

Cathy: Okay, and here’s a big perk because I want to go back to Tanner’s mom, but let me take a little detour. Okay.

Cathy: The families on this show are rock solid. Oh my god. 

Todd: Oh my god. They’re, 

Cathy: the families are so connected. 

Todd: You want to know why? Why? They, when, uh, Connor’s mom, Connor was struggling during the speed dating thing. 

Intro: Yeah. 

Todd: And his mom, like, nailed it. Every single thing that you should say to somebody struggling in the moment.

Todd: Yeah. She had this energy and I think the reason they’re so good at it is because they’re very well practiced at it. 

Cathy: Because their, their child has taught them to be that way. And that, and so that’s the thing is whenever we talk about children who have different needs, if it be emotional, behavioral, neurodiversity, they, they make, God, it sounds so like, Because it’s not like, oh great, now they can teach me things.

Cathy: But once you get through some of these things [00:30:00] where you learn because your child is helping you look in the mirror and helping you see them more clearly and helping you see the world more clearly, you are a better person. You are literally a better person. I mean, that’s kind of what I mean about working with children made me a better person.

Cathy: Being with the elderly all the time, because my parents, that was my life for so long was, you know, being in a, an assisted living and, you know, just being with elderly people all the time. And then being with people who have differences in the way they think, it makes us better people. We, we become deeper, we care more and we don’t, we don’t do the us, them thing, you know, because we’re like, Oh no, no, they want the exact same thing.

Cathy: And if I, you know, and I, I’ve. I said to the girls, and I’m glad Todd that, you know, and some of it hasn’t been by our doing, it’s just been about because of my parents, you know, living where they did or whatever, um, or your mom or your dad, like, they have been really exposed to a lot of people just [00:31:00] by the nature of our family, because I don’t want them to be afraid of people.

Cathy: Yeah. I don’t want them to be afraid of, of what they. Yeah. What is different to them? Um, and you know, it’s, and these are things that are hard to teach once you get past a certain point. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there’s, I see things sometimes in older kids, um, sometimes 20 somethings where they’ll be like, Ooh, I don’t like being around the elderly or they scare me.

Cathy: Sweetie, it’s very Lloyd Dobler. Yeah, Lloyd Dobler. And Diane, um, and you know, there’s, and it’s same thing with children. There’s a lot of it. You know, adults and children. I talk kids, I talk to teenagers who are like, Oh, I don’t like being around kids. And I understand because sometimes it’s just because it’s chaotic or it can’t, it feels out of control.

Cathy: Like, it’s not that that means they’re not good people, but we learn so much from those experiences. But the other thing about Connor’s mom is that Connor gets upset sometimes when his family gets too amped up about his dates. And his mom. [00:32:00] Understandably, gets amped up because she’s psyched that Connor may have some outside connections.

Cathy: Yeah, 

Todd: because he’s lacking a lot of outside connections. 

Cathy: Correct. So she’s understandably like, this is going to be so great. So sometimes Connor feels that and is like, stop it. Yeah. And she’s, she’s very introspective. She had a good talk with her other son. Her other son was great. He’s like, listen, mom, you got to relax.

Cathy: Yeah. You know, you can’t put that kind of pressure on him, and she totally got it. So, you were talking about how she says the perfect thing to him. 

Todd: Yeah, and she doesn’t always. And 

Cathy: she’s still learning, just like we all are. Right. You know, sometimes we, our kids come to us and we are so good. Yeah. We just like, calm them, and I’m not talking about Todd and I, I’m talking about all of us.

Cathy: And sometimes they come to us and we just blow it. And, and the goal is then what did I do there that I could have done differently? Yeah. 

Todd: Um, so you wanted me to remind you to go back to Tanner’s mom. 

Cathy: So I think what she said, and again, reiterating what Tanner’s mom said was, I just had to learn to love him as he is.

Cathy: And then she said, [00:33:00] and then Tanner blossomed. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: And I believe this statement for all children. I think that I don’t care who you are, If parents just could make their first priority, I’m just going to love this kid for who they are and not assess your connection with them by what you perceive to be their lovability, which I mean, like their grades were good.

Cathy: They’re, they’re being nice to you. They have a big friend group that you love. They are shining in their class, or they had a big recital that you were really proud of. And then all of a sudden they get a bunch of attention from you. They start to connect to their lovability. to them performing for you.

Cathy: Correct. And if you can just like your kid regardless, if they’re on a stage or, you know, and then, so one more thing, Todd, then I know you have something to say. The, I actually looked up, um, that night that [00:34:00] we were watching it. I wanted to see like what the research was about just the whole idea of just love your kid.

Cathy: And it’s so because all the, or all the albums. Listen to music. All of the posts that came up said things like when love isn’t enough, when you just, when just loving your kid isn’t enough. And I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about what I mean by loving them. I don’t mean that love them and then be permissive.

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: I mean just like them. And 

Todd: the tricky part is, Love can have so many different interpretations. Thank you. 

Cathy: Good, good, good, good. Yeah. 

Todd: And I’ve shared with this audience a million times, but I was in a coaching cohort one time and we were challenging each other and I got sick of being challenged and I got in the middle and I’m like, can’t we just love each other?

Todd: And then the one guy said, what makes you think what we’re doing isn’t love? And I will never forget that. It’s really, really helpful. But it’s tricky because when I challenge, many of the times I’m challenging, it’s not coming from love. Whether it’s with my daughters or my friends or with [00:35:00] you, it’s because I want to be right or whatever.

Todd: So, it’s super tricky. 

Cathy: It is. You know, I remember even, uh, Shefali’s, one of her, like, um, I think it was on Super Soul Sunday, which used to be on a long time ago, she was with Oprah. And I remember her saying, we just need to love our kids less. We need to not be so in love with them that we are, like, attached to them and focused on what their needs are.

Cathy: And I know, I know exactly what Shefali meant. Yeah. And I still, I know exactly what she meant and I don’t disagree with her in the way, in the context of what she was saying. 

Todd: If you take that headline, she would get crucified for that. 

Cathy: Well, or some people would say, I get, Kathy would get crucified for saying, just love them more.

Cathy: Yeah, right. You know, so it depends on your viewpoint, because some people, her point is, Your over attachment to your kid is a problem because you’re not giving them space. And I’m seeing the exact same thing, but in, with the opposite version of love, which is just like your kid for who they are and quit trying to make them into something [00:36:00] and form a relationship with them.

Cathy: Like, the other thing that’s really heartbreaking to hear is a lot of times, and again, When you’re talking to, you know, friends have said this to me, people have said this to me in um, in sessions and it’s totally fine to say, you know, I love my kid but sometimes I don’t like them. I hear that a lot. And I totally understand what parents are saying.

Cathy: They’re basically saying I’m feeling really angry with them or frustrated. Totally get it. But maybe never say that in front of your child. Yeah. Bad idea. Bad idea. Because if you need to release that with your therapist or your friends, so be it. But you’re saying to your kid, first of all, you’re doing the I love you, but which is not a great way to communicate.

Cathy: And then you’re saying, I don’t like you. And sometimes, like, for example, if Todd right now, and you don’t have to do this, honey, but Todd says, I love you all the time. I say I love you all the time to him. We’re like, love you, love you. If Todd walked in the kitchen and goes, Kathy, I really like you, [00:37:00] that would mean so much to me.

Cathy: Because what he’s saying, and you don’t have to do that. I’m not setting you up. 

Todd: Sweetie, are you ready? Let me get into it here. Sweetie, let me look at my eyes. Let’s do eye contact. 

Cathy: Which one in the zoom or over? 

Todd: Right there. I really do like you a lot. 

Cathy: Oh, thank you. 

Todd: I do. And I know it’s forced and all that, but I do.

Todd: I 

Cathy: like you too. 

Todd: And I know people will be like, Probably throwing up in their mouth right now because it’s all, You’re schmoopy. You’re schmoopy. But of course I like you, all, most of the time. 

Cathy: Well, see, that even is not a great thing to say. 

Todd: I just screwed up, but aren’t there times when you don’t like me?

Cathy: There are times when you frustrate me. There you go. That’s what I meant to say. But I don’t never not like you. That’s true. Like, I have never been like, I don’t like Todd. 

Todd: Language, language is power. 

Cathy: I mean, I wouldn’t be married to you if I didn’t like you. I know that for sure because I dated a bunch of guys that I thought I loved or very attracted to that I didn’t like.

Cathy: You know what I mean? For sure. Like where you’re like, there’s [00:38:00] something here, but I really don’t like you. 

Todd: Well, this is language and There’s a discernment that needs to happen. I could say, hey, right now I’m feeling frustrated because you left the toilet seat up, Todd, or whatever. Like that’s a lot different saying, I don’t like you right now.

Todd: So yes. 

Cathy: I mean, and again, I feel like I’m testing a 20 year long relationship, but I don’t think I have ever. said to you, I don’t like you. Yeah. I think that to me, that would be a really low blow. Yeah. And for those of you who have a relationship where you do that, you understand it. This is just semantics for me.

Cathy: Those words mean a lot to me. I also wouldn’t tell someone I love them that I don’t love you. You know what I mean? Like I 

Todd: You choose your words super carefully. Yeah. And I, I try my best, but this last thing is a perfect example. of what I just said that like, uh, there’s sometimes when I don’t like you. Of course that’s not 

Cathy: true.

Cathy: What that means then, okay, and I’m an adult, so I understand our relationship and I’m comfortable, but with a [00:39:00] child, then they are going to do things to make sure you like them. They’re then they’re instead of like, I have been accepted by my parents in all these different ways. And sometimes I’m frustrating and annoying, but they don’t stop liking me because of it.

Todd: Yeah. Like. 

Cathy: Think about that setup, you guys. And some of us may experience this in our own childhood. Like, look at yourself as a parent. Look at yourself in partnership, and then look at your history. If somebody, if one of my parents said to me, I don’t really like you. I, like, I don’t know. I wouldn’t know where to go from there.

Cathy: Like, because then you’re going to feel like you need to do something to make them like you. And again, this gets it. Sometimes parents don’t bluntly say, I don’t like you. Sometimes it’s, there’s an understanding that if a kid gets all A’s, If a kid performs, if they’re always thoughtful and respectful and never say anything wrong, they get love.[00:40:00] 

Cathy: And there tends to be a kid in every family, and sometimes more than one, um, that pushes that a little bit. Not to be manipulative, but their relation, their personality is kind of like, I’m not going to just do things to kiss your butt. Remember, 

Todd: remember the, uh, I think was it last night or two nights ago, you, you showed me that video of the four.

Todd: There’s four sets of babies. Oh, 

Cathy: yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Todd: No, it was quadruplets. Quadruplets. And the four of them, and they’re like what, six months old? Yeah, they’re just 

Cathy: babies. They’re like all sitting on a blanket. 

Todd: They’re all sitting on a blanket. And like one is like the Joker. Making everybody laugh. Like falling over.

Todd: And then there’s one that’s like laughing hysterically at 

Cathy: that one. And then there’s 

Todd: one that’s totally distracted looking at something else. And I said to you that the parents of these children are going to be able to look at their kids in 20 years and connect the dots between it. So to your point, like, yeah, there’s some kids.

Todd: who challenge. [00:41:00] There’s kids who love less. There’s kids who love more. There’s kids. And that’s just the way they show up. 

Cathy: It is. And what if, and I think you and I have talked about these things all the time because I, and again, I’m not perfect at this. I need your help too. So it’s not always coming from me because sometimes I can’t see it clearly, but I do think that you get really touched by if the girls are really.

Cathy: Like, oh dad, I’ll show up, or I’ll do this, and you just get really, like, into them. You know what I mean? And if one of our girls is kind of like, I can’t, or I’m going to do something else, it’s not that you’ve ever withhold, withheld love, but I don’t want you to prop up a people pleasing kind of situation.

Todd: Here’s the deal. So I’ll own my piece, like what if one of my kids goes out of their way to be kind to our niece, or my dad, or your sister, or whatever, um, you know, there’s a thoughtfulness. Yeah. That goes above and beyond. [00:42:00] Correct. I’m just like, it fills me up in a certain way that I am like so appreciative of that.

Todd: And but there’s, but our kids do all these other different things, but it doesn’t fill me up as much. So I value it less and that’s not right. 

Cathy: And I think the conversations we have is you will sometimes, because there’s certain things you value. One of our girls will do one of those things and you’re just like, wow, that’s so great.

Cathy: I wish the others would do that. And I’m like, well, wait a second. Did you see what the others did in A, B or C or what they did last Thursday or what they’re doing tomorrow? And my answer is probably 

Todd: not because I don’t value it. as much as, I don’t see it as objectively. Correct. I’m looking at myself, you, our kids, my world through very subjective experience.

Todd: Right. And I tend to elevate certain things and devalue other things. 

Cathy: Beautiful. And that’s the only, what else can we ask of ourselves? Like, because there’s no way, you know, Talking about being self aware doesn’t mean [00:43:00] stop being who you are. It means notice what you’re doing. So then your kids don’t have to pay a price for you being unaware of why you elevate certain things.

Cathy: Because that’s kind of always been my thing is notice these other things so you don’t get so uptight about this. Sure. And so let’s go back to what Tanner’s mom said. She said, once I just loved him, He thrived. And I don’t think parents trust that. 

Todd: So that’s like a drop the mic moment. Right. His mom said, once I just loved him for who he was.

Todd: For who he was. Then he thrived. 

Cathy: And you know what? She didn’t mean I stopped taking him to physical therapy. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: She didn’t mean I decided to pull him out of all of the classes. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: She just stopped being so hyper Like on top of him about you need to be different. Yes, 

Todd: she wanted him to be different than he was and he’s wired a little bit differently and she tried to like empathize him in being more normal.

Todd: Correct. And or more typical. Typical, yeah. And then [00:44:00] then she let go of that. Yes. And then all of a sudden Tanner started thriving and it’s, that is a lesson. Autism, no autism, that’s a people thing. Correct. Right? 

Cathy: And it’s, uh, it’s for every single kid we have. I, I actually, you know, I wrote something down because I was, what I hear from parents, cause believe me, I tell this to parents all the time and they will say things to me like, you don’t understand, it’s different with my kid.

Cathy: My kid’s manipulating me. I, I’ve heard everything. And, and I, I honor it because from the where they are in the process, I think it’s true. I don’t think you can just change one day with your kid and all of a sudden they’re going to be like, you’re loving me for who I am. That’s not the way it works. You have to do something consistent over time.

Cathy: Take responsibility for the times that you didn’t and you have to show up in a way with your kids that they then recognize as different as, and you don’t just get to do it once and then say, well, it didn’t work. So, first of all. You know, a lot of parents talk about my kids are manipulating me. There really [00:45:00] is no manipulation in the early stage of life.

Cathy: Like maybe through being eight years old or seven years old, they don’t understand the concept because they’re learning, they’re, they’re not lying to get at you. They’re learning what lying is. They’re trying it. Does this work? Just like a two year old tries to hit, or they’re trying to figure this out.

Cathy: They’ve never done anything. And so they’re, so instead of being like, Oh my gosh, my kid’s a liar. It’s like, no, they’re trying lying, you know? You have to then talk to them about why that doesn’t work in relationship and how that can be harmful to them and what they feel. Like, it’s an opportunity. Gosh, do you remember all of the, when we did shows when our girls were little, how often, often we said that?

Cathy: It’s an opportunity. And then, So then, let’s talk about why an older kid manipulates, and I don’t even like that word, I’m just using it because parents say this. Number one, they want attention, right? Number two, they want control. And number three, they want to feel more powerful. So can you see how if you just love them for who they are, [00:46:00] they’re getting the attention.

Todd: They won’t be lacking those three 

Cathy: things. They won’t be lacking control, and they’ll feel powerful in their own self. Not over you. But powerful in who they are. We’re so hi hi oracle, I can’t say the word, hi e oracle? Hierarchical. Hierarchical. I have no idea. I can’t say it. But we’re in such a hierarchy, men, you know, mindset that we’re like, I need to have power over my kid.

Cathy: I need to have, you know, if you’re Harrison Butker, you want to have power over your wife. You want to have power over what women believe at a graduation ceremony. You want to have power over, you know, whoever it may be. And his parents, I had to just throw that in there. Sorry everybody. 

Todd: Well, most people, maybe some people know who you’re talking about, but will you, because, you know, let’s let people in on.

Todd: Okay. 

Cathy: I think most people know this, but I will just share, since I made Todd share what this love quadrant was of archetypes. Uh, last week, uh, I think it happened on Tuesday of last week, so it’s probably been a full week. [00:47:00] Um, the, or no, it must have happened the weekend before, because it was a graduation ceremony.

Cathy: Harrison Butker is the kicker for the, um, Kansas City. He is, so two time Super Bowl winning kicker. Um, he, uh. gave a speech at a Catholic school. Um, and by the way, I teach at a Catholic school, uh, university. So I’m just saying that because I, some people have been like, well, what do you expect? It’s a Catholic university.

Cathy: And I teach at one and I would expect different. Um, he took the time in his speech to kind of talk about a bunch of people in groups negatively, but the one that really, um, hit home was he said, I’ll paraphrase, for all the women here, I bet, you know, you feel good about your accomplishments, but the truth is, um, women’s lives don’t really start till they become a wife and mother and until they take on, they lean into their role of being a homemaker.

Cathy: And he’s saying this to women who just graduated from college, right? Would it be 

Todd: helpful to play this or would we rather not elevate that? 

Cathy: Uh, [00:48:00] I don’t care. I mean, it’s up to you. It’s, it’s 20 minutes. I know, 

Clip: there’s just so. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you.

Clip: How many of you are sitting here now, about to cross this stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited About your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

Clip: I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabel, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I’m on this stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I’m good enough. 

Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and here’s the thing that people are missing about this.

Cathy: He can do that. He and his wife had chosen that and [00:49:00] more power to them. They are a single income family because he is an NFL football player. Most families cannot be a single income family. And a lot of women and a lot of men. don’t want that kind of setup. They want to both work or they, or there’s a lot of single mothers or there’s a lot of single dads.

Cathy: Not a lot, but you know what I mean? There are people who have a completely different situation and to say to a group of people and to speak for women as a man. He can speak for himself and his family, that’s fine. But to tell other women what they, what vocation. 

Todd: Yeah, what they should value. What they should 

Cathy: value and lean into.

Cathy: It’s just very, and, and again, there’s a 20 minute speech behind that, that, that’s just piece of, that’s just a piece of it. Um, and I, I, I don’t want to talk about, Should he or shouldn’t he of or, you know, you don’t understand him or free speech. I’m not going to, it’s very similar to the [00:50:00] man bear conversation where this is more about the belief that you know what’s best.

Cathy: It is a power over situation, you know, that women should be fulfilling their role that they were destined to have, which makes no sense because I just feel, it’s just so funny I’m having so many deep thoughts. I feel like in some ways, and I know this isn’t true, because it, but there’s like, the mentality has gotten worse than the 80s.

Cathy: Do you know what I mean? And I know that can’t be true because not with Gen Z around and with Millennials around. I, I just, they’re, they’re so far, the women I know, they’re so, they’re so self possessed and they, they have such, you know, goals for themselves. And some of it is about having a family, but they have other goals as well.

Cathy: Sure. But I also, I mean, I just, I, you know, I don’t know if you noticed, Todd, but Dabney Coleman died last week. 

Todd: The guy from 9 to 5? Yes. Oh, I love that guy. And that 

Cathy: is what I wanted to bring up is [00:51:00] 9 to 5 is one of my absolute favorite movies from the 80s. I mean, I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve seen 9 to 5, like it’s insane.

Cathy: And that was my mindset. in when I was a kid is like, and again, there was, they were pointing out, you know, Mr. Hart was not a great guy and he was doing all these awful things and chasing Dora Lee around the desk. And, you know, it was very of its time, but the message of it is women, women know how to do this and women should be in charge.

Cathy: And so I grew up with that or working girl or, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it’s so crazy to me that I’m sitting here watching a speech where somebody’s telling me, Or, and, and I know someone say he’s not telling you, I know, but it feels like that. Yeah. There is a value system that he’s throwing out there on women and saying, you need to lean into doing what you’re supposed to be doing.

Cathy: Yeah. And it, and I, and then he also goes on to say. So, [00:52:00] so I get to be the man I am because she stays home and does all these things. So she’s empowering me to do whatever I want to live my career as a football player. So it’s rough, man. It’s rough. It can be rough out there. Yeah. 

Todd: And whatever. He could say whatever he wants and, and he, and, and we can say what we can, what we want to say in response to what he said.

Cathy: Correct. And, and that’s the thing is I can only say how it made me feel. And it angered me, not only personally, but it frustrated me for all the women who were sitting there. Um, there was a talking down to, believe me, we know what it feels like to be talked down to, you know what I mean? Like, do you know how many situations I’ve been in like that, where you know what that, you know what they’re saying, which is sit down, sit down, stop talking.

Cathy: Um, we’re too well versed in that, that when someone’s like, no, no, no, he’s just sharing his life. We’re like, come on. We know what that [00:53:00] feels like. So that was my 

Todd: Yeah, there’s a little detour, which is fine. Um, so we have as much as eight minutes left before we have to close shop. Is there anything for sure you want to make sure we talked about?

Todd: So 

Cathy: let’s finish about the, the people, like loving people for who they are. Yeah. So just in, yeah. I know it’s so hard. And I know. That even people who listen to this show get uncomfortable with these things, but you guys, this is like my job. Like, and I don’t mean I’m, my job is to talk about every inappropriate thing that’s said, but I, this is what, like, I have to share that this is what the majority of women are feeling.

Cathy: Not all. But if we don’t talk about it, then everyone thinks it’s okay. And so that’s the sit down piece. Is if, if someone’s like, oh, that makes me uncomfortable, stop talking about that. You’re telling me to sit down. You’re saying the way you feel about it doesn’t matter. Let’s just keep doing what we’re doing.

Cathy: And so I think there, but. There is a way we can talk about this where we can hear each other. And [00:54:00] unfortunately, if you’re listening to this on Tuesday, you missed the class we did last night about this, is how to talk to, talk about difficult issues like this with each other. Because my goal is never to offend Todd and piss him off.

Cathy: I know sometimes I do offend him. I then try and do things to get us back in a place where we can converse. And I’m sure, and he says things to me sometimes and I get frustrated or offended and he has to work to, instead of just giving up, you have to figure it out. Um, but again, ending with Tanner and his mom.

Cathy: The whole idea of loving our kids and liking our kids and noticing what they’re doing well necessitates our ability to break down in our minds what success means, to, to tap into what our fears are about our kids going into the world. Because you know, another thing that I think this is connected to is we tend to emotionally regulate through our kids.

Todd: Yep. 

Cathy: Yep. Yep. That if we’re feeling anxious about the [00:55:00] world, then we say to our kid, go join this club, go be on this team, go volunteer, go get a job, go be success in every way, and then I don’t have to feel bad. 

Todd: I would guess that most of us, um, are doing that most of the time. 

Cathy: And I do it too. I need to self 

Todd: regulate.

Todd: Something just happened in front of me. So I could either try to look inward and explore what’s going on inside of me and where does this come from and what am I scared of? Or I could just try to change the outside world to regulate my nervous system. And that’s, that outside world’s a pretty big place.

Todd: It sure is. Instead, let’s regulate our inside world you And then, um, try not to control and fix and manage everything outside of us. 

Cathy: Well, and you’re saying control the outside world, but I’m being more specific as we would control our children. Yeah, they’re part of 

Todd: the outside world. 

Cathy: Okay, but take the rest of the world out of it for you and I, like, say you come home and you’re feeling frustrated about money [00:56:00] because our car is being worked on, which it is for the 80th time.

Cathy: You then go to Do our girls have a job? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: Like you get frustrated about money so then you get worried about them working. 

Todd: Yeah. So 

Cathy: you’re regulating by wanting them to be working so then you can feel better about the situation. 

Intro: Yeah. 

Cathy: So it’s like we’re not even trying to change the outside world.

Cathy: We’re just trying to change these kids in front of us so we feel better now. Nuance. Your point is well taken, but again, as you would talk about in Men Living Language, are you above the line or below the line? Because you’re not really asking the question. 

Todd: Definitely below. 

Cathy: You’re below. So, and same with me.

Cathy: Like I, because I struggle, uh, deal with anxiety on a daily basis, um, I then am too, I’m over attuned to my kids. And sometimes I need to really just not. Get emotionally involved at all. And that’s very hard for me. Um, I have to really pay attention and, and like, you know, Ted and I were having this conversation the other night and I was telling him something I did that I felt proud of, [00:57:00] and it’s sometimes not noticeable from the outside.

Cathy: The shifts I’m making, it’s how I’m allowing myself to regulate internally without making them do something different or say something to me to make me feel better about it. Like just let them be frustrated. You’re 

Todd: talking about Chipotle, right? 

Cathy: Um, I’m talking about a few, oh, yeah. You’re talking about the guacamole?

Todd: Yeah. 

Cathy: Yeah. That was one example for sure. But I kind of feel like it happens every day like eight times. 

Todd: Kids are going to give us a lot of opportunities. And if you miss this one, don’t worry. You’re going to get another chance tomorrow. 

Cathy: So, you know, we’ll just end on the note that, um, You know, just love your kid as they are, like them, and when someone’s like, but I can’t because they’re awful or this or that, can you find things that you like and start to point that out to them?

Cathy: Because a lot of the, the anger they have at you. is because you’re not noticing that thing. Right. Do you see what I mean? And if 

Todd: you’d notice it, then you wouldn’t have to worry about [00:58:00] all the other stuff. It’s like 

Cathy: a vicious cycle. And then when, can you create a communication with them, where when they’re not feeling seen, they can tell you.

Cathy: But don’t go to your kid and be like, kid, I mean you can tell them about your life, but their, uh, parenting is, it’s not a, It’s not a mutual, you’re giving more than they are. Yeah. Let’s just say that. 

Todd: Um, I just found out what I wanted to talk about in this week’s podcast. Oh, shoot. We just finished. We’ll save it for next week.

Todd: What is it? The difference between pop psychology and actual psychology. 

Cathy: Oh, interesting. You 

Todd: showed it to me. It was the Instagram thing. Yes. Uh, that’s really interesting. Um, so maybe we’ll do that next time. 

Cathy: You want to read one of them? 

Todd: Sure. I’ll read one of them. Okay. So the difference, so on the left hand is pop psychology.

Todd: And on the right it’s actual psychology. So pop psychology says being triggered means that something makes you uncomfortable or annoyed. Okay. That’s pop psychology. Okay. Actual psychology is a trigger is something that causes a sudden increase in [00:59:00] symptoms like flashbacks and PTSD or compulsions and OCD.

Todd: A trigger is not just a source of general discomfort. 

Cathy: Correct. 

Todd: So we as people living in 2024. I, you know, we hear that term all the time. I’m getting triggered by you. I can see like, yeah, I’m just, I’m mad at you right now. Like that’s not triggering. 

Cathy: No, because you’re not having this somatic response.

Cathy: You’re not, it’s not connected to the trauma that you experience. It’s just, you’re frustrated like a normal human. And, you know, same with the, you know, my favorite, I’m sure it’s on there as gaslighting. 

Todd: You 

Cathy: know, like you’re not agreeing with me, you’re gaslighting me. And that’s not what gaslighting is.

Cathy: Gaslighting is a much more. you know, obvious, trying to make you feel crazy about what you’re saying. 

Todd: Pop psychology says gaslighting is when someone lies to you or tries to convince you that you’re wrong. But the actual psychology is gaslighting is an elaborate strategy where you are manipulated to question your reality, memory, or sanity, not just a disagreement over what happened.

Cathy: Right. It’d be like if I came in here and I said, [01:00:00] Todd, You moved my chair. You took my chair. I know you did because I saw you do it yesterday. And you were like, I don’t remember doing that. I know you don’t, but I saw you. I’m doing it on purpose to make him think he’s, he’s missing something. And then I hold tight to that to a point where he starts to believe that he’s missing something and that I’m right.

Cathy: And that, and then I make him apologize for something he didn’t even do. Do you see it becomes, and again, that’s like just one, um, of a million examples, but it’s 

Todd: a, it’s a, it’s a scheme. It is. Um, so join Team Zen, get your free water bottle, 25 bucks a month. So technically it’s not free, but you get all the things that Team Zen offers, which is a lot.

Todd: So check out the link in the show notes. I also want to say hi to Jeremy Kraft. He’s a bald head of beauty. He does painting and remodeling throughout the Chicago line area, 630 956 1800. Um, and I guess keep trucking. 

Cathy: Yeah. Have a good [01:01:00] week. 

Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.