Cathy and Todd discuss how our upbringing shapes our current approach to parenting, share why some traditional parenting tricks fall short, and attempt to redefine romance—it’s not just about grand gestures, but the heartfelt intentions behind them.

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Blog Post

Embracing the Challenges of Parenting: Revisiting Conversations on Timeouts and Emotional Openness.


Parenting is not an easy task. It is a constant whirl of decisions and transformations that shape both parents and children in profound ways. As parents, we often find ourselves questioning our choices, navigating various conversations, and traversing the land of our own emotions in the hopes of ensuring our children grow up to be healthy, confident, and secure adults.

In this post, we’re taking you on a journey down memory lane into a recent podcast episode on Zen Parenting Radio. They discuss a wide range of topics, from the challenges of parenting to how our histories shape our present interactions.

The Struggles of Parenting and Emotional Openness

During the podcast episode titled “753_How_our_past_shapes_today”, the hosts engage in a detailed discussion about parenting. In an array of conversations, hosts Cathy and Todd discuss everything from being a parent to coping with past baggage, diving into deep emotional territories as they navigate their discussions.

Understanding Timeouts

One of the primary topics of discussion is time-outs. This classic parental tool, often criticized for its impersonal nature, is reexamined through a fresh perspective. The hosts cite a blog piece by Jason and Cecilia which suggests that timeouts can often prove counterproductive. They argue that children rarely sit in a timeout to reflect on ways to improve. Instead, they’re left feeling isolated and interrupted from their path of learning.

The takeaway here is that timeouts aren’t always the answer. Authentic communication and rapport built on understanding—while time-consuming—can offer more beneficial results in molding your child’s behaviour.

Reflections on Growth and Change

An intriguing part of this discussion lies in the hosts’ confession about their past. Todd talks about the various phases of his life and how he danced around certain aspects of his past when relating his story. His confession about his unconscious attempts to mask his vulnerability gives a powerful insight into the impact our past can have on our present.

Recognizing such patterns is essential not only for our growth but for our relationships as well. For Todd, realizing his inability to quite accurately pin his history is a stepping stone towards self-discovery and enhanced emotional openness.

Final Notes

Parenting can be a daunting task, even more so when you’re not quite aware of the numerous ways your past can filter into your present. Realizing these connections and patterns, however, can lead to profound self-discoveries and reformation of habits that ripple into your parenting techniques.

While it’s easy to feel overwhelmed and resort to quick fixes like timeouts, taking a moment to reflect can often lead us down a path of long-term development and improvement. After all, children learn from example. The challenging conversations we permit ourselves to have will, in turn, teach our children about emotional openness and self-discovery.

Embracing our parenting struggles and our emotional states shouldn’t be something we shy away from. After all, acknowledging our past and weaving through the challenges of the present shapes us, our relationships, and inevitably, our children’s development.

Keep Truck’n!




Todd: Here we go. My name’s Todd. This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Zen Parenting Radio. This is podcast number 753. All odd numbers, sweetie. Mm-Hmm, , which is really fascinating and prime numbers as a matter of fact.

Cathy: Yeah, I, I’m, I’m looking at you on my

Todd: zoom and, um, you’ve got, all I wanna do is you have

Cathy: a very purple headband

Todd: on.

Todd: I do. I do. And you look like you got ready. I had some buddies over on Friday night because Skylar was somewhere and you were somewhere so we played board games and had some fun and there was this game where we had to write stuff down. Mm hmm. So I got my pens. And they’re all purple. They’re all purple.

Todd: One of the guys is like, man, you must really like purple. I got my [00:01:00] purple shirt on, I have my purple glasses on. I had seven purple pens. We need

Cathy: to talk about those pens too, because those purple pens that you love so much, they leak and they break. No, they don’t. Literally two days ago, I pulled one of those purple pens out of my drawer and I was writing something.

Cathy: I looked down at my hand and my entire hand had ink on it. You must be using them wrong, sweetie. Well. They’re not as good as you think they

Todd: are. Oh my God. Gosh. Yeah. First of all, I’m going to do this, and then I’m going to do this. Well,

Cathy: so be it, but there are, okay, got it. So be it, but there are better pens out there.

Cathy: And some are blue. No. The pen is blue.

Todd: Purple. Purple. I’m going to send a dollar to anybody who emails me to say what movie that’s from. The pen is blue! I’m going to mail them a dollar bill. So first. No, you won’t. Yes, I will.

Cathy: Where are they going to answer? On Insta? On Threads?

Todd: Email Todd at ZenParentingRadio.

Todd: com. The first one who [00:02:00] says it gets a dollar from me. All right. All right. Pen is blue. Um, we’re going to do three. We’re going to have a 45 minute show. Okay. We always say that. But you have to go to yoga. So we really are. Right. I’m real this time. For real. We’re going to have three topics. But first we’re going to talk about the moment.

Todd: Okay. I’m just going to tease the topics. Sure. Um, opting out of motherhood. You and I talked a little bit about that. Yeah, we did. 15 minute conversation. Yeah. Good luck. Uh, Jason and Cecilia had, um, they are good friends, they have this, um, company, organization called Happily Family. Uh huh. They do these conferences.

Todd: They were at our conference. Uh huh. We love them. They had one called Why Timeouts AreDon’t

Cathy: Work. When you say they had one, what does that mean? They had a blog. They put a blog out. Okay, they wrote, so One thing, I know it’s going to be a short show, but you start to talk really fast. I

Todd: know, we got to get it all in.

Cathy: So, I, I get lost and I’m your partner. So, if people

Todd: are listening. I’m quick. Try to keep up. The reason I want to do timeouts is because we never talk about parenting on this parenting podcast. I know, but timeouts is

Cathy: [00:03:00] so Old. Sweetie,

Todd: there’s people listening right now that do timeouts.

Cathy: I’m not saying that that’s bad, it’s just such an old topic, it makes me want to

Todd: yawn.

Todd: No, yeah, to you, and there’ll be some hot takes. Okay,

Cathy: I will move in that direction with you, but I may back up the car and say I’m done with that conversation. Well, you know what, I’m done. I do. If I get bored, then I can’t talk

Todd: about it. It’ll be a short of the three. And then lastly, and I have a few small hot takes about, uh, drinking around our kids.

Todd: Oh, interesting. Or, yeah, it happened because you and I had a date on Saturday night and I did something different and I thought it worked.

Cathy: Oh, interesting. Yeah. I have no idea where you’re going with that.

Todd: Yeah. So my sweetie got down here. She’s like, I don’t have any idea what we’re talking about today.

Todd: I’m like, I got it. But first, the Zen Parenting Moment. Yes. Brought to you by David Serrano. Go Yes.

Cathy: How does David Serrano feel about, um. He doesn’t care. Like, what is it called? Sponsoring my [00:04:00] Zen Parenting

Todd: Moment. He loves it. Okay. Uh, he’s a personal financial advisor, one on one to one financial advice, helping you figure out things like how much to save for retirement, how much to save for college tuition and stuff like that.

Todd: He was at the conference. He was. For people who were there. Uh, so it’s a, there’s free consultation. Number is 815 370 3780. Uh, he can work anywhere. He’s based here in Illinois, but he can help you out regardless of where you are in the world. Cool. Um, so you did a Zen Parenting moment called Consider Your Childhood.

Todd: Yes. And the first quote was, The more you know yourself, the more patience you have for what you see in others. Yes. Um, I have a few things highlighted. But, because sometimes you don’t remember what you wrote about. I

Cathy: remember this one because I struggled with the title forever. And I struggled with finding a quote.

Cathy: Usually I do not struggle with finding a quote. Um, but there’s a paragraph in there that was making the, the point. What’s the second to last paragraph? I say a bunch of things because [00:05:00] that’s like

Todd: the, I can’t remember. This can become challenging if we find ourselves caring for our

Cathy: parents. That, that was the, really the core of it is how I started it.

Cathy: Is I think that we, um, Sometimes we become aware of what happened in our childhood, if it be like, and it’s not always that it has to be over, super traumatic. It’s that we realize, you know what, I didn’t really have permission to speak a lot in childhood, or people didn’t really listen to me, or I felt lonely, or I was depressed.

Cathy: Like, we have these awarenesses about our childhood, and we are finally able to recognize it when we’re an adult, and we feel safer. Because when you’re a kid You have to kind of go along with the routine of whatever’s going on in your home because you, the people around you are helping you survive.

Cathy: You’re a kid, you know, like you need belongings. So you’re not about to, I mean, some kids rebel and say, I’m not going to do this anymore. But when you’re little, sometimes you just kind of adhere to the program. Let’s just say that. So when you get older, you kind of look back and you have this recognition.

Cathy: But what [00:06:00] can become interesting is if you are. Say, taking care of your parents, or maybe your parents are healthy but you’re with them a lot, or you’re taking care of them because they’re emotionally dependent or physically, or you’re caring for them because they’re aging, and then you are also parenting.

Cathy: So you’re in that sandwich place. It’s really interesting, the dynamic of, this is, this is how the dynamic is for my family of origin, and then here’s a new dynamic that I’m trying to create with my partner, or just my children. And you can kind of feel like you’re going back and forth. You know what I mean?

Cathy: Where you’re kind of trying to, um, maybe not even consciously, but you’re, you’re being one person in one scenario and you’re being another person in another scenario. We’re getting squeezed is what’s happening. Yeah. And I think it’s interesting. And I think a lot of people, cause you know, obviously I talked to a lot of people about this.

Cathy: This comes up quite a bit. I have a lot of people I know who, um, who they’re taking care of their parents, right? And so they’re, so they recognize this dynamic. And. Yeah. And a lot of times it’s [00:07:00] like, it is hard, but it’s also kind of a good, you know, it’s a good growth experience as everything is, is like, we don’t have to look at it as placating or being fake with our parents.

Cathy: There is a, a way of understanding how certain relationships are different and that certain expectations are different and you, You know, if you’re playing along to a point where, like, you’re feeling like you’re being smothered or it’s toxic, that’s no good. Sure. Um, but if it’s really just, um, you know, this is the way things were, and now I’m going to create something different, but I don’t need to convince every single person around me that I’m doing this thing, and I don’t need to, because I, do you remember a long time ago, Todd, this is like, you know, our, our oldest is 20, so.

Cathy: This is forever ago, but when we first had kids and then all of our parents had all this input about, you know, this, we didn’t do this, or we didn’t do this, or why do you get to do this? And we felt the need to like convince them of why our way was the right way. And there’s also

Todd: like the pleasing aspect.

Todd: We want to please our parents. Right. [00:08:00] And then sometimes it doesn’t show up that way, just we want to like Reject our parents.

Cathy: Right. And we’re like, you’re wrong. I’m right. And I think there’s many layers and levels of this, depending on the age we are. I don’t think, I think there’s always going to be a bit of a push and pull about our family of origin.

Cathy: And I just, I think, you know, again, Zen parenting moments are short. You know, it’s not like a dive super deep, but I wanted to acknowledge that. Yeah.

Todd: That’s all. Um. Before we get into the first of three topics, I do want to talk about Team Zen. Okay, we have a few things coming up. We have Actually later this morning a micro community of loved ones dealing with addiction.

Todd: So it’s a handful of teams and people talking and supporting one another about loved ones who are struggling with addiction and then this Friday I think we have Zen Talk number 182. Okay. Maybe it’s a Thursday, I don’t know. Whenever the 29th is. Whenever leap year is, sweetie. I think it’s Thursday. Okay.

Todd: And then you have a women’s group. That’s just you and all the female Team Zen people. And then there’s a Zen money. [00:09:00] community in March as well. So, um, just in case you’re like, well, what’s this Team Zen? It’s a, it’s an app. We call it The Circle. Join The Circle. It’s a Team Zen membership platform. It’s an app with Zen Parenting Radio’s complete parenting content, content collection, plus live talks all in one place.

Todd: Uh, some micro communities and money, raising healthy sons, differently wired families and your women’s group. 25 bucks a month. Cancel at any time. Which of the three topics do you want me to jump into? I don’t care. Um, so all I’m going to do is I’m going to read the four reasons why Jason and Cecilia think timeouts don’t work and you just give a one or two sentence response to it, okay?

Todd: Okay. Four reasons why timeouts don’t work. Number one, there’s no child sits in a timeout and thinks about how to improve themselves or how to do better next time. Correct. But I feel like

Cathy: I have to give an overarching commentary right now. Go ahead. Is that part of the reason, and you may dig into this Jason and Cecilia may say something about this, but, um, the timeouts weren’t the way that they were, the reason they were [00:10:00] created versus how people use them.

Cathy: That’s how things are. That’s the disconnect. So everything stems from that. That’s the seed of the problem, which is a timeout was an opportunity for a kid to get some distance. from what was aggravating them or what was frustrating them and allow them to relax. I think it became two things. Number one, it became an opportunity to punish and be punitive and make your child sit in a corner like a dunce cap.

Cathy: And then it also became this thing where we thought a kid was going to sit there and this is exactly what you just said. and literally contemplate how they could be a different person.

Todd: Some four year old really practicing some self awareness. Well,

Cathy: they don’t even have abstract thinking yet. They’re just kind of like, this sucks.

Cathy: And it doesn’t mean, and that’s the thing is Why, it’s not that I’m against giving children space from their sibling or space from a situation or space from me, but I would just call it space or go relax. You know, like timeout has taken on such a [00:11:00] punitive, you know, way.

Todd: Number two, the child was doing the best they could.

Todd: Right.

Cathy: I mean, right. Well, and that’s the thing is like I am, anything that becomes popular, there’s a backlash and you and I have been in this world of parenting so long that we’ve seen things. Um, have different names and now the language that people use or they ascribe to Dr. Becky who has the, a podcast that, you know, it’s like the number one parenting podcast.

Cathy: And she has a book is they, they ascribe the word.

Todd: Wow. We’re the, we’re the number one podcast. Do not do that. We’re the

Cathy: number one podcast. No, we are not. We don’t need to be. We are the number one podcast. We, Todd, in your heart and brain. But we don’t, we don’t criticize other people in this world.

Todd: Sorry, Dr.

Todd: Becky, you’re

Cathy: the best. Right, do not do that. I would normally tell you to cut that out because Nice, I’m glad,

Todd: I hate cutting

Cathy: stuff out. I know, but I don’t like ever doing that

Todd: to anybody. It wasn’t about Dr. Becky, it was about us, sweetie. No,

Cathy: it, it’s, I [00:12:00] don’t like that. Okay. You know I don’t like that. I know, sweetie.

Todd: Okay. Anyway. Anyway, did I distract

Cathy: you? You did, but what I was going to say is what the words they, um, put with that is gentle parenting. Okay. We’ve had all sorts of language around this. You know, there’s been conscious parenting or self aware parenting or, um, you know, sometimes negatively it’s called permissive parenting.

Cathy: And there’s always this, um, or what is Dr. Laura called? She calls it Dr. Laura Markham. Calls it something, too. I can’t remember all the terminology, but basically it just means this ability to recognize that our kids are doing the best they can, and to meet them where they are, and to not go in with a punitive, condescending, um, scary kind of tone, but instead to talk to them about what was happening.

Cathy: And the thing is, is the reason people have a negative vibe about these things is they’ll say, well, I did that and my kid kept doing these things. And what you forget is these are things that take time. [00:13:00] That you are not, it’s like putting, it’s like filling, I don’t have a better analogy, it just came to me, like, you’re filling a hole, so, you know, if you’re filling a hole, and you do one shovel of sand, that’s just one shovel of sand.

Todd: Sometimes kids learn really slowly.

Cathy: They do, and you have to keep doing that, so then their brain, they build neural pathways, they start to understand it, and I think what a lot of parents want are quick, simple, easy fixes. And so they prefer fear and yelling. And the problem is, is that it may get you what you want in the moment, but in the long run, this is challenging.

Cathy: Because then your kid is scared of you, they don’t trust you, they don’t want to talk to you, and they also kind of feel crappy about themselves. So, It’s this situation where, you know, I just noticed on TikTok and everything, there’s always a group of people who dump on these things. I get it. You know, they’re like, I don’t like it.

Cathy: They, they have a reason, or when I say reason, they have the, um, space to say what they like and don’t like. It’s just, I’ve seen it over and over again. [00:14:00] I’m getting old in this area, meaning where I’ve seen so many things come and go that it’s like, yeah, this is of course going to come, backlash, blah, blah, blah.

Cathy: You know what I

Todd: mean? Reason number three. Okay. Timeouts or any other form of punishment are a distraction from learning. Anything else that says a brain that is in fight or flight is not ready to learn only a calm brain.

Cathy: So read the first

Todd: part to me again. Timeouts or any other form of punishment are a distraction from learning.

Todd: Yeah,

Cathy: that’s an, that’s an interesting way to say it. And

Todd: a brain that is in fight or flight is not ready to learn. Only a calm

Cathy: brain is ready. Well, that’s absolutely true because when, you know, when you are in fear or when you are in flight, you are literally, literally stuck. Like there’s no, nothing coming in, nothing going out.

Cathy: So if you, if you’re getting yelled at in that Time then nothing is I mean, they said nothing’s changing. Yeah, they’re not experiencing any kind of new

Todd: information Last but not least reason number four timeouts hurt our relationship with our kids and in bold It says kids who feel [00:15:00] well tend to act well Correct.

Todd: Right. So she, they give some effective alternatives, which you probably just kind of said when you were talking a little bit, but instead of putting your child in timeout, you can teach them different things to say or do in that situation, show them different ways to advocate for themselves, talk about how they can calm their feelings.

Todd: And then it kind of goes

Cathy: on from there. You know what, this is kind of a good place to switch gears to the mothering thing. Okay. Because I think. Something that I realized, um, I’ve been talking to Todd about now that our kids are older and I have a different life experience than I used to. I have a lot of compassion for, um, me, um, over the course of two decades because I had my first kid when I was 31 and I’m 52 now.

Cathy: Have said to Todd a lot in the past month. I kind of don’t remember 30 and 30s and 40s Yeah, and and I don’t mean that literally go blur, but it’s a blur. That’s the [00:16:00] thing is I have pictures I obviously do have memories. It’s not like I don’t remember at all, but it’s so Fluid and it I don’t know if I was 34 37 32 I don’t know if my kids were 10 9, you know, all the memories are starting to get Blurred together.

Cathy: And I, and it’s because we were so busy. And the expectations were so high and the things that we, the energy that we had to put out was maximum capacity. And so why I’m compassionate toward myself then, and I was practicing that in real time. I mean, we’d been doing this podcast for almost 14 years, so obviously I can go back and listen.

Cathy: And I know I was being compassionate and empathetic toward myself in the best way I can, but I really thought I should be more fun. I should want to go out more. I should want to go to parties more. I should want to, um, you know, cook more. I should want to, and I had so much [00:17:00] underlying shoulds that even if I was like, no, I’m not going to do that and I shouldn’t have to do that, but there was something in me that felt I should be doing more.

Cathy: And now in hindsight, that was like insanity. Like you can’t spend days. Giving your, your body, your soul, your mentality to, I have three children, three people. Plus I was, my dad was sick for a lot of that time. My mom had, was sick for a lot of that time. And And then expect to be like fun all the time. You know, like there’s, it doesn’t mean that I never had fun.

Cathy: It just means I couldn’t, you know, like Todd would be like, Hey, let’s go out on a date. And I would be like, okay.

Todd: To switch gears from your daily existence to being a normal person.

Cathy: Or Todd would just be like, Hey, let’s all watch a movie tonight. And I’d be like, okay. Because I’ve been with these girls [00:18:00] all

Todd: day.

Todd: Or even better, sweetie, let’s play a board game. Oh, God.

Cathy: Let’s all play a board game. And what, and he, and again, we weren’t this, it wasn’t, as the girls grew up, we had a little more flexibility. But, um, There was a lot of, Todd would be in his office all day, so he’d be like, now I want family time. Where I was with the girls all day, and he’s like, now I want family time, and I want you there.

Cathy: Yeah. So there was like, and it wasn’t always like that, but I felt like in a continuous stream of, be present for these people.

Todd: And I hid behind the fact like, sweetie, I want you there, we’re a family.

Cathy: Right, and we are. We still are. And so, I guess why I’m bringing this up and why I’m connecting this to, I don’t know, and again, I love Jason and Cecilia, it’s not about them, but I’m interested that you brought up timeouts, because why?

Cathy: I

Todd: don’t know. I just, I felt the need to Bring in some new parenting? Yeah, to bring some parenting. Specific to, because, you know, there’s a lot of people that are our age that listen, but there’s a lot of people that are younger that listen. That aren’t going back in the archives because we’ve talked about this, but it’s just kind of like a refresher, I guess.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: And, and so I’ll connect it to this. [00:19:00] I think that I can give a lot of tips about, Hey, just, you know, relax with your kid. And when they’re having a hard time, just understand why they’re having a hard time. And it takes a lot of energy. And I think we’ve always said that, like, I don’t think I’ve ever been like, this is easy.

Cathy: But there’s some kind of awareness that I have now that, that, that the reason that parents want a quick fix is because they’re having to juggle a lot of things at once, and they’re like, help me get this one out of the way, please. Because I’m, and, and as we know, you know, um, some kids really, they’re dysregulated.

Cathy: for a multitude of reasons. It could be, um, some version of the way that they’re hardwired, you know, some type of neurodiversity where their emotional regulation is, especially when they’re really young, is really off, you know, like where they don’t know how to get back into their body. And then sometimes it’s a kid who just [00:20:00] is having a meltdown because they’ve had a really, really long day or a long week or they’re sick or.

Cathy: You know, you’re dealing with pressure from the school. There’s just so many things. It’s not like you and I are completely out of this. Like, you know, we still have a kid in high school. We still have kids in college where we’re on the hook. But we’re in the back of the line of care. We are definitely not in that time where I’m like, have I looked in the mirror today?

Cathy: Have I thought about myself today? And so a lot of times things around timeouts. I want to make sure that when we talk about. You know, there’s a different way to do this that we’re not saying, Hey, you’re doing it wrong. Because I want parents to understand that it takes energy. So when you’re like, this is exhausting, I want to be standing behind you going, I know.

Cathy: Yeah. You know, not, I know, not in a condescending way, but dude, I know. And this sucks. And this sucks. And when we say parenting is hard, It’s because it is. It’s because it is. Because we have to [00:21:00] pull up reserves and energy from places we didn’t think existed. And so all of a sudden you’re at your last, like, I used to say things all the time, like, I was on my last nerve, or I had my last amount of energy, and guess what?

Todd: It wasn’t. Sweetie, that’s when you go Terminator 1. What’s Terminator 1? In Terminator 1, Arnold is the bad guy. Actually, I think it happens in both and you think he’s dead. I think in part one, they put a big steel pole through his chest. He’s mostly like a machine by then. Okay, so this

Cathy: is one when he is the

Todd: bad guy.

Todd: Okay, and then you know, I think the music plays and you think he’s fine, right? And you see the red light go out. Yeah in his eye. Yeah, and then all of a sudden it goes on like Auto reserve that you didn’t think he had, and then all of a sudden he comes back up.

Cathy: Sweetie, that, I’m very, um, upset that that’s the reference you used.

Cathy: Okay. Because that was totally stolen. Oh. From what

Todd: movie? I don’t know. My favorite

Cathy: movie. Wizard of Oz. No. My favorite scary movie. Oh. [00:22:00] Halloween. Yes. Michael Myers was the first, that was the first time they

Todd: did that in a movie. Yeah, but sweetie, there’s nothing visual about Michael Myers getting that last breath of his energy.

Todd: What are you talking

Cathy: about? I don’t know. He goes after her in the closet with the hangers, she does the hangers in his eyes, why she thought that was gonna like, kill him, I, I mean, maybe because she put a hanger through his eye, maybe that’s why. And then, you, now, interesting, I got this from the rewatchables, I didn’t know this, but when the movie was originally on the square screen.

Cathy: You could barely see Michael Myers in the back standing up and so you didn’t really see him get up, I’ll assert. But once the screens widened and we could see it on our bigger TV screens, you start to see him move. Pretty quickly. Yeah. And it’s even scarier because she’s just Laurie’s just sitting

Todd: there.

Todd: Well, whenever I kill a mask murder I always turn my back and then sit there assume that he’s

Cathy: dead and [00:23:00] stay in the house. Yeah, that’s just stay in there You’re fine.

Todd: I still think my Terminator reference is better, but agree and disagree

Cathy: Okay I like the red eye thing and I agree if we want to go more happier optimistic than I like the ET reference because his Light turns back on and he says boom What does he say?

Cathy: Home. Home. Um, and then Elliot has to pretend he’s laughing and then he has to pretend he’s crying. Yeah. Because they’re, they think, but he’s really actually

Todd: happy. I’m going to play one more song and you’re going to have to explain why I’m playing. Okay. Okay. Can’t wait.

Cathy: Is it Heart Light by Kenny Loggins? Oh, Neil Diamond. Yeah. Aw. Still the words that he

Todd: might say. Turn on your heart light. Okay, so I’m playing this song, but even though I don’t remember exactly why, why am I playing this song? I mean, I know this is Neil Diamond

[00:24:00] Heartlight.

Cathy: I know, but wrote it for ET, not for the movie, right?

Cathy: He wrote it after he saw the movie. Okay. So

Todd: he saw the movie. He’s like, I’m going to write a song based on what I just saw. Correct.

Cathy: Why did I say Kenny Loggins, a song that’s

Todd: called Heartlight? You know what? I think you’re thinking apart to heart. I think you’re thinking about this song. Okay. No, I

Cathy: wasn’t.

Cathy: I wasn’t. That’s uh, that’s Ron McCormack. That’s

Todd: a whole, that’s a whole different thing. We haven’t done, we should do a pop culturing on Footloose. We should. I’ve seen that movie a bazillion times. Oh,

Cathy: there’s a song by Kenny Loggins called Heart to Heart. Oh. Do you want to play

Todd: it? No, I’m going to play this.

Todd: No,

Cathy: play it so we


Todd: what it is. Hold on, first I gotta play this. I think you’re going to like it. Oh, will I? Uh, probably not. Okay. Any idea

Cathy: what

Todd: this is? This is my boy. Heart2Heart. Jonathan Hart. A self made minion. He’s gorgeous. [00:25:00] He’s gorgeous.

Cathy: He’s awesome. We’ve played this before on the show,

Todd: you know? We did.

Todd: Gorgeous. He’s gorgeous. Alright, so Loggins What was that guy’s name? Max. Max. What’s the stupid Kenny Loggins song you want me to play? Heart2Heart.

Cathy: It was not an E. T. Everyone who’s listening, it was not an E. T. Not that you really care, but these things are important to me. I like to get them straight. Yeah, so he wants to get it straight.

Cathy: Um, speaking of, it’s such a 80s like song. Like I know he wasn’t in Doobie Brothers, but it’s so Doobie Brothers. Yeah,

Todd: it sounds like a Doobie Brothers song. This may as well be a Doobie

Cathy: Brothers song. Right? I bet you a million dollars Michael McDonald is playing on this song. I’m gonna look at it

Todd: right now.

Todd: I’ve never heard this song before, by the way. And I’m proud of it.

Cathy: Don’t be too proud. Yes, Michael McDonald is on this song. Of course he is. Of course he is, because it says [00:26:00] Yes. Does Michael McDonald sing on Heart to Heart? David Foster and Michael McDonald of the Doobie Brothers sing as the background vocals.

Cathy: God, he had a sound, man. Yes, he did. Okay, real quick before we move into the next thing. Yeah. Let’s come up with five. People who had sounds where, you know, it’s their song Like You Two, like The Edge. I was gonna say you two for sure. Okay. And we’ll use Michael McDonald because we know who he is. I might need your help

Todd: here,

Cathy: so, okay, so let’s think of a different sound.

Cathy: We could,

Todd: how about Devo? Well, that’s

Cathy: one song. They sound like that all the time. Think that’s the only song they have. I would maybe say, I feel like I’m gonna get yelled at for this, but maybe say The Smiths um, or Morrissey.

Todd: Maybe, I don’t, I’m not that familiar with them.

Cathy: But I feel like people who are like, I was like a fan, but there are like people who are like rabid fans and they may say, Oh my gosh, not at all.

Cathy: So, sorry if, if I’m wrong. Um, one more. Um, let’s [00:27:00] say Oh, Prince. I feel like you could kind of tell a Prince

Todd: song. The thing is, and I love you too, you’re one of my favorite bands, but y’all, whenever Edge’s guitar starts, it’s such a distinct sound. Um, whereas some of these other bands that I love, like Led Zeppelin, I think that, like, Led Zeppelin’s music sounds so different from one another.

Todd: Of course, you can recognize Robert Plant’s voice. That’s

Cathy: why I didn’t use Led Zeppelin or the Beatles, right? Right.

Todd: Exactly. Cause they are so different. But Prince, I feel like same thing about Prince. Like he’s all

Cathy: over the place. He is. And I could, you know, like, and I, I do feel like I know all of Prince’s catalog, not exceptionally well, but there’s just a sound, you know what I mean?

Cathy: Like where you’re like, there’s something Princey about it. There’s something special. Um, and so, I don’t know. I’m sure I’ll come up with more as we go, but

Todd: that’ll be when I get there. Um, can I do my hot take about drinking real quick? Sure, go ahead. So, Kathy and I had a date on Saturday night. It was so fun.

Todd: It was so fun. [00:28:00] We, uh, I started and I had a drink at the house, a little, my friend told me tequila and soda is a good drink. It was fun. And I had

Cathy: one when we got to the restaurant.

Todd: And you know, back in the old days, I would have like 14 beers and I would still be standing up straight back in the college days.

Todd: Oh, yeah. Now at, we went to a Mexican restaurant. I had some drink, it had smoked, smoky, mescal, yeah mescal, smoked, smoky tequila. Uh huh. By the way,

Cathy: everybody, we

Todd: Uber everywhere, so. Well that’s what I was about to, that was it. And then we went to another bar and I had a third drink, so the driving thing was not an option.

Todd: Right. And we, we parked downtown in Elmhurst and we take an Uber home. So we’re super

Cathy: responsible. I know, but you’re saying you had a drink before you left. Yeah. So I want everyone to know that, like, I did not. Right. Keep going. Okay. These are important things. I

Todd: know, it’s fine. Yeah. So, um, I was not sober enough to drive home.

Todd: Correct. And I have like a little bit of childhood baggage because when my Um, mostly my mom. My mom had an interesting relationship with alcohol. [00:29:00] Um, I was not a fan of my mom when she was consuming alcohol. Right. Okay. Yeah. And maybe this is some of my childhood baggage. And I just have this judgment that let’s say teenage kids or maybe even pre adolescent kids or adolescent kids are not fans of their parents when they’re under the influence.

Todd: Is that a fair assumption?

Cathy: Listen, I’m not even saying this as like just our family. I talked. to teens. They hate it. Yeah. And again, when they get older, they can kind of, they get used to it or they, when they start to drink themselves, when they get a lot older, they may have fun with you, but there’s always this discomfort because your parents are out of control.

Todd: So this is what happens to me. Usually I’ve been drinking in front of my kids, almost always responsibly, but with a nice buzz from time to time. And I try to walk in the door and this might be childhood baggage. So I kind of want to process this out loud on the podcast. I try to pretend like I’m sober in front of my kid.

Todd: Okay. And I think our kids [00:30:00] are smart enough to know that I’m pretending to be sober when in actuality I’m not. And the reason it’s not easy to pretend when you’re sober is because your brain’s not functioning the way it does when it’s sober. Well, your voice is different and stuff. Everything. And things slow down.

Todd: If you want to know what Kathy and I sound like drunk, by the way, hit half speed on this podcast right now. It’s kind of hilarious. You and I have done that in the past. Because we’re slow. It’s, yeah, it’s just. Okay,

Cathy: so. Yeah. Okay, because I know you want to make a point. Yeah, I want to make a point. So I don’t, I don’t want to distract.

Cathy: Yeah. But, it’s, it’s kind of a weird conversation we’re having here because. I don’t, I’m never really, I mean, don’t get me wrong. I had a drink at the first restaurant and then I had a half a drink in the second one and that was it. And I will, I can feel it, but I come home and talk to the kids, no problem.

Cathy: I don’t feel, I don’t drive, but I never feel, and again, maybe it’s because I don’t have childhood baggage, but they, I tell them what I had to drink, you know, they watch me have a glass of wine and a half or [00:31:00] whatever, and we don’t drink that much. So it doesn’t feel. What’s the word? Um, it’s like kind of an open conversation.

Cathy: There’s nothing that I’m hiding, so I’m interested in

Todd: where you’re going. Yeah. And the only place I’m going is I usually, and I, like I said, I think there’s some childhood wounds or baggage along this with me because I get hypersensitive to the idea of me showing up Uh, after I’ve overindulged in front of my kids, and usually what I do is I walk, I give them a kiss on the head, and I say goodnight, see you in the morning, but even that, so like this time, what I did, um, is I just shot, uh, Skylar a text saying, love you, have a good night, see you tomorrow.

Todd: And I feel like I’ve saved myself from trying to pretend something I’m not, and I saved her. From having to deal with a, not, an intoxicated father. But you’re not

Cathy: that [00:32:00] intoxicated.

Todd: Sweetie, could I have driven? No. Well then, that’s my definition. Okay, so basically what you’re saying I’m not hammered. Right. I didn’t wake up with a headache.

Todd: Right. But I’m still not able to drive. You just

Cathy: are like, why expose my kid to me this way if I don’t

Todd: have to? Yeah. And that’s the first time I did that, because I always like giving my kids a kiss before I go to bed. Or before they go to bed. And this time I just shot Skylar a text. She said, love you too.

Todd: And that was it. Yeah. I

Cathy: think it’s an interesting conversation. I think that talk about like a, a deep topic because there’s, um, I think, you know, this kind of sounds really, I don’t know how this will sound, but I’ll say it anyway.

Todd: This is kind of a sensitive topic for us and

Cathy: who’s listening. And that’s the thing, because it can sound very like, um, there, there, and there is no, it’s not even judgment.

Cathy: I don’t even know what word I’m looking for. I don’t, there’s nothing I’m hiding. So I don’t feel this way at all. And

Todd: I think that’s some of my baggage. I think there, I need to hide. I’m like, why are you hiding? You’re an adult. [00:33:00] Blah, blah, blah. Right. I’m exposing my own Things I’m working through, like why do I have to hide?

Todd: Right. And it’s probably because I’m slightly embarrassed, why am I embarrassed? I went out with my wife, I Ubered home, there’s nothing irresponsible going on, but We were home by like 9. 30. No, no, actually we got home late, which was 10. 30. We did? Yes. Wow, that’s late for us. We had an interesting topic, uh, of conversation at the last place we went to.

Todd: Sweetie, are you really

Cathy: asking that? I know what we talked about, but what I mean is like, why did that make us go home?

Todd: It didn’t make us go home.

Cathy: stay out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yes, of course. That was fun. I mean, it was hard, but it was fun. We should have talked about that.

Todd: Really? I don’t know. I don’t I’m not ready for that.

Todd: I’m ready to out myself as a drunk dad on a Saturday night. I’m not ready to out myself as an I’m You want to get into it? We don’t have time. People are going to be so annoyed. We’ve got 16 minutes. [00:34:00] Let’s get into it. Screw it. Are you sure?

Cathy: Yeah. But I need you to, well, if we close the store on the alcohol thing, I think the thing is, is my kids have known me for, you know, since they’ve been born, obviously they’re born of me, and they make fun of the fact that I really don’t drink that much.

Cathy: Like I’ll have a glass of wine and not finish it. And they’re, they think I’m like a tea toler and I’m not. So my point is, is that I’ll have a drink or two and I don’t think a thing of it. Mm-Hmm. , because I’m not, I’m not hammered and I’m not. Embarrassed by, you know, because you and I go out once a month or whatever and have drinks.

Cathy: It’s just there’s nothing in it Yeah, and to your point, I think the reason you’re bringing this up is because you still feel like there’s something innately wrong Yes, what you’re doing. Yes. Exactly. And and I think there’s some people who have issues with alcohol Where they have chosen to not drink at all because they realize it’s affecting their life in a negative way Like I was reading this is real quick.

Cathy: I know we want to get to the other thing, but Cheryl Strayed wrote something recently [00:35:00] about how she is not drinking anymore. Um, she, you know, it’s not that she like went to AA or, you know, anything like that, but she just realized she was having a glass of wine or two every night and that it was not affecting her positively.

Cathy: You and I have never had that experience. Oh, we, we

Todd: drink less frequently, um, than

Cathy: the majority of the population. Right. So

Todd: what do we get the most, I would say, right?

Cathy: Um, yeah, maybe at the most. Yeah. And probably more so. In the last year or two because our

Todd: kids are older. Because we got bandwidth.

Cathy: We didn’t have bandwidth.

Cathy: We can go out with friends or have a drink or have a glass of wine. Anyway, so we, when we were at the bar, Todd and I always have deep talks. I have a hard time not doing that.

Todd: Well the first thing is you, uh, I needed to move. from the Mexican restaurant because my body is, I feel like I’m an hour, uh, I’m like, um, a snow globe.

Todd: And we have been sitting at the bar at the Mexican restaurant for like, whatever, 75 minutes. And I’m like, let’s go to the next bar. And you’re like, why do we have

Cathy: to go? I don’t understand the need to move to different bars. Okay.

Todd: Because my body is [00:36:00] literally getting tired.

Cathy: Right. And you said that. You’re like, I just got to move.

Cathy: And I understand that you move more than I do. I just, we have a good seat. The place is kind of fun and happen. I’m having a nice drink. We have a nice bartender and you’re like, let’s go. And I’m like, why? Like that’s such a college thing to me where everyone’s like, let’s go to the next place. What are we looking for?

Cathy: Another good seat, another nice bartender.

Todd: Because we had everything that you thought we needed.

Cathy: And it’s in the, it was such a great atmosphere. I understand leaving if it’s too loud or if it’s Sure. I was gonna say smoky. Bars aren’t smoky anymore. Thank goodness. But, you know, like, I get that, but I was very content, but I was like, okay, wherever you went, but you were funny because I’m like, where are we going to go?

Cathy: You’re like one of the other 12 bars on this because we have so many restaurants and bars in Elmhurst. So we went to the one, another one across the street, got another good seat. Yeah. By the window. We were lucky. Another nice bartender. Yep. Um,

Todd: so. I didn’t think she was particularly nice, by the way. You didn’t?

Todd: No.

Cathy: Well, she was fine. I mean, she was not. You know, [00:37:00] she wasn’t mean. No. She was neutral. Yeah. She was busy. There was lots going on. Um, anyway. So. I need you to lead this conversation. Okay. But I, okay. I’ll do my best, but we’re not gonna be able to get all the way through this. We’ll tease it. Okay. So I like to talk about Todd in my story.

Cathy: Like sometimes when we’re out having drinks, I like to talk about, you know, we went to college together and you know, and it’s not about just reminiscing about old times. It’s like how we got to where we are. Right. Yeah. It sounds so annoying, but you know, like

Todd: it’s, we’re just telling our

Cathy: story. And, and I just like to talk about that.

Cathy: Cause you know, we are usually like in, we work together, we’re parents together. So it’s nice to get back into our love story, right? Like, why are we together? And so I started asking Todd, cause Todd didn’t really have a lot of girlfriends, um, when he was younger, cause he went to an all boys school and I just had a girlfriend

Todd: was in college for about a year.

Todd: And then I had a girlfriend when I was like 20. Oh my

Cathy: God, you did it again.

Todd: You skipped me. [00:38:00] Sweetie, when you and I were dating, I, there was another girl that was in Europe that I was supposedly dating.

Cathy: I know, but you, you can still, this is exactly it. That’s so bad. So you go from, you’re like, I have a girlfriend, then I didn’t date anyone else until this later time.

Cathy: And I was in that in between. You were absolutely. So those are the things that make me sad because you like, don’t. See that. So these are the things we talk about is because when I tell our story I’m like I met him at the end of my senior I wasn’t and this is why it was like it’s kind of a funny annoying story because you sometimes the way it’s told is if it’s it’s all one sided like I was like Into you and you were just so uncommittal and you were just you know doing other things and whatever I’m like you were not you were calling me.

Cathy: You were writing me letters. You were there. Yes Yes. And so there’s this piece where you’re like, yeah, I wasn’t, I wasn’t into you. And I’m like, BS. Bull [00:39:00] ass. I said bull ass. Bull ass. And so I don’t like that version of your story because it’s not true. Right. And it’s not, and yeah, you weren’t ready to commit and everything, but it’s not like you weren’t trying to hook up and go out and see me.

Cathy: Sure. And so when you like skip over those parts of the story, it makes me sad. I totally

Todd: get it, sweetie. And it makes sense that it makes you sad and you’re totally right.

Cathy: Oh, okay. Well, that’s an easy conversation. So basically I was asking Todd these questions like about things were coming up and he was explaining to me about why in a vulnerable way, as he has done many times before.

Cathy: Um, uh, I don’t know. You drink your smoothie on the show all the time. I can hear it in my ear. It is, but it’s kind of not. Okay. So, um, he, I was asking him questions like why he had all these like blocks around commitment or why he thinks he didn’t date anyone or [00:40:00] whatever and he was giving me a lot of reasons like we’ve talked about this a million times we’ve been together 20 years but it’s just fun and but then he this thing that just happened two seconds ago he will like avoid discussing when we were together or it’s like it’s a block for him and so it makes our story seem so new.

Cathy: Not

Todd: real. Yeah. Like, um, yeah, like a disconnecting story. Yeah.

Cathy: Like where I’m like, okay, my memories are I met you and then you asked me to a formal and then we had this goodbye. No, I know. Thanks a lot. And then we had this really like heart wrenching goodbye. And then you called me during the summer and then you came to my birthday party.

Cathy: And your story is I dated this one girl who wasn’t me by the way. And then I didn’t date anyone until like I was 27. I’m like, wait a second. Yeah. That, what’s going on? Like, that’s not, that’s not the

Todd: truth. Yeah, it’s not an accurate depiction of what was going on.

Cathy: And here’s the funny thing. We have talked about this a million times, so I’m very clear that Todd does know our story.[00:41:00]

Cathy: It’s just when we’re being, what I’m asking for is for a romantic connection where he’s like, says something like, I thought about you a lot that summer, or I, you know, when I was calling you, I really missed you or whatever. And he doesn’t say things like that. And part of me is like, if I go dig deep, I’m like, did you not think about me at all?

Cathy: He’ll be like, Oh, I did. I’m like, then say me that. Like, so we actually even talked about doing a class about what romance really is. Cause At first when I said, Todd, it’s like a romantic thing, he’s like, yeah, like when I give you flowers. I’m like, no, that’s a romantic action. And sometimes it’s not even romantic because it feels like, and I’m not talking about Todd, but sometimes when men show up with flowers, it’s like check, right?

Cathy: Romance is when you make someone feel like they’re important when

Todd: one heart is connecting to another.

Cathy: And it’s not, you can, men and women can feel when something isn’t romantic. Someone may say, I’m doing this [00:42:00] romantic thing. But it doesn’t feel romantic, so therefore it’s not.

Todd: Well, and I have a tough because you, if I do a gesture and my heart’s not into it, you are very good at sifting that out.

Todd: Right.

Cathy: It doesn’t mean I’m not appreciative. Right. But it’s just, it’s just hollow. It’s hollow. Yeah. And I’m like, it’s great. You know, I’ll take it. But there’s a difference between I actually, and Todd, you know, this is just, a lot of this discussion is about accepting the human that you love and you just aren’t Like that.

Cathy: You, you use humor to block vulnerable moments. You don’t really speak romance all the time. Do you know what I mean? You’re not like, that’s not who you are. Words

Todd: are not my dominant love language. Right.

Cathy: And you’re not like, like I, I told, because I went away this last weekend. To do some writing and I always have something on in the background and I was really excited that where the house I’d stayed at they didn’t have a lot of, um, like Netflix and stuff, but whatever they had [00:43:00] had all the Twilight movies, so I haven’t watched those in a long time, so they were kind of on in the background that whole the reason women like Twilight.

Cathy: Not everybody does. I’m not talking about. It’s great. You know, it’s not the best.

Todd: Don’t be

Cathy: dogging Twilight. Well, because people will be like, it’s such a bad book. I get it. But the reason it got popular is because Edward speaks romance. And there’s like a lot of like, I’m here for you and I’ve been waiting for you and you’re important to me.

Cathy: And that’s why it’s important, you know? Do you want to hear a scene? Sure.

Todd: There’s more unknown consequences. Of the choice you make.

Todd: I’ve lived through it,

Cathy: and to let you suffer that? You believe I have a soul, and I don’t.

Cathy: But to risk yours, just for the [00:44:00] sake of never having to lose

Cathy: you, that’s the most selfish thing

Todd: I’ll

Cathy: ever do. So sweetie, why don’t you say that to me when, when I want to become a vampire?

Todd: First of all, I don’t know what he’s talking about. She

Cathy: wants to become a vampire because she wants to be with him forever, and he loves her so much he doesn’t want her to lose her soul.

Cathy: Sweetie,

Todd: I would never want you to lose your soul. I’m all in on Edward’s thing. I don’t think I would say it the way I’d be like, no, stay a human being. You’re like, no, let’s just go play pickleball. Doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I’m going to be honest with you. And so here’s the thing. Well, even like, think of it, like, listen to the tone.

Todd: Well, that’s what I mean. Oh, she’s going to start talking now. I know.

Cathy: Now it’s going to be Bella talking about how she wants to be a vampire. She wants to be with him forever. And here’s the thing. You do not need to be, the two examples that we use, Gen Xers, Todd Knight, because I’m not using new examples, but we use Twilight as Edward’s over the top with his romance, right?

Cathy: It’s like so [00:45:00] intense. And then also Petrovsky, we’ve talked about him on Sex and the City, where. The ick factor where it’s so much poetry that you’re like, this doesn’t feel real either. You want it to be authentic from the person that you love in their way. And I really do see all the way Todd loves. I’m not asking him to be different.

Cathy: Like, I don’t want anyone to read into this as like, I’m like, you’re not doing enough. That’s not it. It’s just that sometimes I told him, I said, sometimes there’s this line between what I need to hear and, and trusting that, um, you know, not asking you to be different. I don’t

Todd: want you to be different. I think in an authentic partnership.

Todd: It’s, it’s necessary for one to ask for what they want.

Cathy: Right. And to be honest about something that hurts and, and someone might just shut up about a partner saying something like, yeah, I dated this one girl and then five years went by and then I met another girl and I was in between there. And somebody might just swallow that and be resentful or feel sad or make assumptions and instead and I’m like, Hey, I was in there and [00:46:00] he’ll be like, Oh, I know, but then it’s very, why am I

Todd: not part of your story?

Cathy: Like, where am I in there and why? And, and is that in, is there something deeper there? Do you know what I mean? Cause I don’t question Todd loving me now because he’ll always say. But I love you now. I’m like, I know, like we are partners. I’m so set, but it’s fun to talk about our history. Well,

Todd: and for me to say it, uh, talk about our history in the present moment.

Todd: in an authentic, honest way, which I didn’t do 15 minutes ago on this podcast, which was I skipped over.

Cathy: Isn’t that funny that we’re like talking about this and you did it again? Right. Like, and, and that is like a, um, you know, that to me, it, it, It makes me sad because that’s not my story. I would never skip over Todd.

Cathy: Todd was, and I had, and I dated people before Todd and after Todd, several. And I would never skip over that part because meeting him was [00:47:00] really influential. It was really a huge deal to me and he was very important to me. And so then you kind of want that reflection. And I, as

Todd: I try to dig deep, like why would I?

Todd: Skip over you and maybe it’s because you are my story like you like to talk to you about you seems like well You know who you are in my life, right? And I’m not saying that that’s right. I’m literally trying to be like well Tom Why is this blind spot so glaring right? And that’s one thing I’m thinking of like maybe it’s that yeah Like maybe you don’t why would I tell you a story about you

Cathy: because you’re that’s Romance, though, that’s you’re hitting it is you tell people stories about them.

Cathy: That’s why we tell our children’s stories about them, right? When our kids will be like, I remember when you used to dress up like this and look at this picture. Kids love to see themselves reflected.

Todd: I feel the need to embarrass myself one more time before we close out. What was the thing that I said to Jenny and John Sabraki that time when we were telling them our story?

Cathy: You said [00:48:00] that you said, I don’t, you said to me.

Todd: Yes, I remember the story the one time I said to you,

Cathy: you said, I don’t want a girlfriend, but if I chose to have a girlfriend, it would be you, which was.

Todd: I think I remember Edward saying that to Bella all the time. Yeah, he’s

Cathy: like, I’m not here for you, but if I wanted to be here for you,

Todd: I’d be here for you.

Todd: All the romantic ones are saying this to me right now.

Cathy: You just, and it’s like, it’s, and I know that it’s, Todd explained to me that it’s like, it’s, he said it’s like this. There’s blocks and, and I think it’s because romance is vulnerable. I think it’s because it can be embarrassing. I think it can be because you don’t have a lot of practice in it and like historically, you know what I mean?

Cathy: Like it wasn’t something, even though you always wrote me awesome letters. We’re so old that we didn’t have phones. So Todd would write me these really long letters and they were funny and he would say, I miss you. So you have it. I

Todd: have [00:49:00] it. But here’s the thing. I wrote you the letter because I missed you and you weren’t there and there was no text or email at the time.

Todd: So the only way to communicate, you know, this is not hard. All I have to do is write you letters from a heart centered place and you will appreciate that. And my stupid, logical, practical. Part of my brain is like, why would I do that? We live

Cathy: together. Right. And I don’t really need a letter right now.

Cathy: Right. I don’t need, I don’t need anything like that. I don’t need proof. Yeah. I just, when we’re out having a drink at a bar and we’re talking about our story, want you to

Todd: remember. I gotta put my Edward on. I gotta get my Edward game going. Who’s my best role model? Edward? Or is he too much? Oh,

Cathy: he’s too much, but he’s got, you could get a little of him.

Cathy: Just a little

Todd: sprinkling of Edward. Just watch

Cathy: any TV show where a man’s like, you’re the person I’ve been waiting for. You are, meeting you changed my life. Um, the way [00:50:00] that I feel when I’m around you, it, it, any TV show, Todd, any movie. Anything like, that’s what

Todd: I know, but that’s too ambiguous. Like I need.

Todd: I know, but see,

Cathy: then I’m telling you who to be and I don’t. That’s gotta come from you. I

Todd: have one other, uh, uh, culture. I’m scared. Here we go.

Cathy: Oh. When it’s 71 degrees in, I love that it takes you, it’s order. Right. I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you’re looking at me like I’m nuts.

Cathy: I love that. After I spend the day with you, I can still smell your perfume on my clothes. Nice. And I love that. You are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night. And it’s not because I’m lonely, and it’s not because it’s New Year’s Eve. I came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

Cathy: Improv. Yeah. That was improv. Yes! Right? And, and nothing in there is like, you’re the most beautiful woman in the world. It’s not cheesy. It’s not cheesy. Right. It’s stuff, and that’s, I feel like, and again, you’re not a words person, I gotta go to yoga, so I’ve gotta finish with this. But I feel like I say that [00:51:00] with you all the time, like I love, Um, I love when you say stuff like that.

Cathy: I love when you, um, you know, get into a game. I love that you love sports. I, I tell you things about you, not things I wish you were doing, but things I love about you. I love that you’re wearing that stupid purple headband. It may, it’s you.

Todd: Sweetie, why do you think it’s stupid? Because

Cathy: it, it, you’re, you just, why?

Cathy: It’s not even on right.

Todd: What do you mean? It’s unperfect. It keeps the hair out of

Cathy: my head. I know. But anyway, I love you. I love you too. I have to go. Everybody, everybody have a good week and we’ll talk to you more

Todd: later. I’m going to do a few announcements. You go ahead, sweetie. Um, have a good class. Do some great downward dogs.

Todd: Thank you. Um, okay. So two things we’re going to do a March Madness Women’s Tournament. Cool. And March, uh, they Can you turn off my computer when you leave? Yeah, I’ll turn off your computer. Uh, March 17th is when the brackets are announced, and we’re gonna give something away, like, um, I don’t know, some Zen Parenting swag, so it won’t cost any money, but, and I don’t know if I’ll use ESPN or CBS [00:52:00] Sportsline or Yahoo or something, but I’ll figure out how to do it.

Todd: So just stay on guard for a Women’s March Madness. Cool. Uh, our daughter goes to the University of Iowa, so I’m guessing there’s going to be a lot of University of Iowa teams winning our brackets, uh, and we’ll see what happens. Um, and then lastly, uh, I am going to a Men Living Advance. It’s a week in advance.

Todd: It’s April 25th through the 28th. It’s on the East Coast. We’ve never done it on the East Coast. We’re doing it in Virginia. And if there’s any men out there listening, or if there’s any women out there that have men in their lives and they want to send, if they want to go to a place where we connect with ourselves, with other men, with outdoors, um, that’s one part.

Todd: The other part is personal growth. And then the last part is we have a lot of fun. So if anybody’s interested, I’ll have the link in these show notes and just forward to them, or just shoot me an email at todd. zenparentingradio. com and, uh, give you more information about it. Um, so I guess that’s it. Um, we [00:53:00] will see you all next week and keep on trucking.

Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.