ZPR#714 – Field of Dreams Full Episode Transcript – DOWNLOAD
Todd: Okay, so this is Todd. This is Cathy. So in lieu of our regularly scheduled Zen Parenting podcast, Cathy and I recorded a Pop Culturing podcast that we’re sharing on the Zen Parenting Platform. Sweetie, what movie is it that we’re sharing with everybody today?
Cathy: Field of Dreams, which was a wonderful return, meaning I’ve always loved this movie, but to go back and watch it again, especially in this season of baseball and with Father’s Day, it made it really special and poignant.
Todd: If you liked this episode, I invite you to subscribe to Pop Culturing our other podcast. If you’re not into Field of Dreams, go ahead and listen to one of our other 700 plus podcast on Zen Parenting Radio. Enjoy and we’ll be back with our regularly scheduled programming next Tuesday.
Todd: All right, here we go. My name is Todd, This is Cathy. Welcome back to another episode of Pop Culturing movies and TV through Gen X perspective. And today we’re doing a movie called Field of Dreams. And the reason I, so it was my, kind of, my turn to decide. I, we did, it’s complicated in anticipation of Mother’s Day, so we decided to do Field of Dreams in anticipation of Father’s Day for obvious reasons.
Todd: But I am very excited to talk about this movie more so than I thought I was going to. I’m like I mean, I always knew I loved the movie. I just didn’t know if there was a lot to share about it. And the more I dug in, the more I thought there was to share. So. I’m gonna go over my reasons why this movie’s important to me or what I liked about it, sweetie, but I just, what are your first impressions when you think of this movie?
Cathy: Oh, I really like this movie. I kind of felt like we decided this together. Do you remember?
Todd: Yeah, maybe. I think I maybe floated past you and you’re like, yeah, let’s do that one.
Cathy: Well, yeah, You said, here’s the five Mother’s Day ones. Here’s the four or five Father’s Day ones. But yeah, I I very much like this movie.
Cathy: I have a very it’s obviously, I have a connection to it for a lot of reasons. Number one, because it came out when, in 1989 when I was graduating from high school it is
Todd: a, did you watch it in the theater?
Cathy: I think so. I can’t picture myself in the theater. I just knew, I knew the movie and it’s like, hard to remember, you know, for, again, this is such a Gen X perspective thing to say, but movies would be in the theater and it would take a long time for it to be available on vhs.
Cathy: At least it felt long. Like, maybe because, well, time goes fast now. It doesn’t feel long,
Todd: but, well, it would be like, depending on how successful a movie is, it would be in the theater, I’d say a month. But then like three months after that, it would show up in our movie, the, in our
Cathy: blockbusters. So to your point, there was two reasons.
Cathy: It took a movie, a while to end up in your hands. It was because it was at the theater much longer. And because they j there’s just a longer lag time, which was probably just fine. And then also because it’s in the Midwest there’s a lot of corn, which I’m a big fan of growing up in a very corn centric place.
Cathy: And then of course there’s scenes that are That were done in Galena, Illinois, which is kind of a second home to us. So we know all of the background and where they are. Even though they say they’re in Minnesota, they’re actually in Galena, Illinois.
Todd: And you also like it because sometimes you get corn fused.
Todd: Now you get corn fused.
Cathy: Who
Todd: did I grew up in DeKalb. I am going to play the trailer cuz it’s pretty, it’s well done and it will bring everybody back. Okay, here we go. I have just created something totally illogical.
Todd: That’s what I like about it.
Cathy: What didn’t say when that happens. Who’s your invoices Ray?
Todd: I think I know what, if you bill it, he will come
Cathy: meet. Ooh, why do I not think this is such a good thing? Daddy? There’s a man out there.
Cathy: Hi. This is really interesting. You believed in the magic. Isn’t that enough, Annie? It’s more than that.
Todd: I feel it as strongly as I’ve ever felt anything in my life. There’s a reason. Oh, did you hear the voice too? Did you hear it go
Cathy: the distance? A grave is dead. He died in 1972.
Todd: Are you Moonlight Graham?
Todd: I always called me Moonlight Graham in 50 years. Unbelievable. It’s more than that. It’s perfect. You build a baseball field in the middle of nowhere and you sit here and you stare at nothing. Steel this game. It’s a part of our past. Right?
Cathy: Reminds us all. It once was. Good.
Todd: Heaven. No. Iowa. Kevin Kasick. It’s Iowa.
Cathy: Iowa. Very famous line. Isn’t it a great summation of the movie? It is. And you know, I’ll finish on these two notes. Like, you know how I said it came out in 1989. I think one of the themes of the movie, you know, I am graduating from high school, I’m, you know, being forced to become an adult. And a lot of the underlying themes of this movie are about aging.
Cathy: And about losing your desire to do something important and about getting old. And even though people don’t think about it that way, that’s really what’s going on here. It’s about what do you trust in, what do you believe, in what direction are you going? And And also about relationships, which is like my favorite thing in the world.
Cathy: And I, you know, I love when we watched it again last night you know, the. The scene that I really like, which they played right there, is Winnie is like, I just, you know, this is really illogical what I’m doing. Like, I’m going in a direction that doesn’t make sense for the age we are and for having a child and for owning a farm.
Cathy: I’m following my internal drive. And, you know, thank goodness the people in this movie, I like them all. I mean, they all, nobody’s perfect. They’re humans. But like, just her, just, you know, his wife Annie being like, that’s cool. That’s what I like about it. Like, it’s, there’s something very good, you know, it’s in alignment with really who we are cuz it feels good. Well,
Todd: and
Todd: I I would say that the it also asks the movie viewer to suspend logic. And And to suspend disbelief. In order to enjoy the movie, which is as somebody who loves being logical and practical, it pushed me outta my comfort zone. And if you would’ve pitched this idea to me before seeing the movie, I’d be like, that’s dumb.
Todd: Like, why would anybody ever plow their corn, all their money to build a baseball field in the middle of nowhere, but somehow through the magic of cinema? It just is this wonderful thing. So I googled a few themes on why, what makes this movie special?
Cathy: Can I say something about what you just said? Is I think the reason they do that so well, or to me because I’m a little more of a woowoo, I’m much more of a woowoo person than you are, you’re more practical, is, I like the way it’s shown because of the way Ray Kinsella describes it.
Cathy: He’s not like, my mind is blown. Oh my God. He’s like, this is really interesting. Yeah, this is really cool. This is really, you know, I don’t know why, but hello? Like there’s not a, because that’s how I feel. We are experiencing things every day in life, and we don’t acknowledge it enough. Like there was a period of time where I kept a coincidence journal for a long time and I still sometimes write them down, but not the way I used to.
Cathy: And what you find is there’s coincidences every day. Sure. There’s crazy things that happen where you’re just like, that is really interesting. Or, you know, you meet someone and they happen to know someone who knows someone, and then something happens. But you’re like, we are so interconnected and there’s things that we could have never predicted or understood that are real.
Cathy: And so I appreciate we don’t have a good word for that. Besides
Todd: coincidence, what’s the word? Well, this may be related and it’s ki this is a little tangential, but I think it’s important. So the word that I’m thinking of is wonder. Okay. Okay. I like that. curiosity. And the reason I say is cuz my friend Mark just literally emailed me this morning some blog about how we are trying to pursue happiness and the pursuit of happiness is actually what makes us unhappy.
Todd: Right. And instead, if we could try to cultivate wonder and curiosity and openness and expansiveness through our, you know, comfortable emotions and our uncomfortable emotions. That’s actually what will help us arrive at this state of happiness, not the seeking out of happiness. So, yeah, for me, this movie, it invites us to be, to bring wonder into our lives.
Cathy: And you know, and again, I know you’re gonna say all the themes, but w wonder that we all have access to. See, because sometimes we’re like, well, that happened to that person, or that person had that experience. But it’s because the people who are experiencing wonder have a self-trust and an internal like drive or an intrinsic motivation that allows them to experience wonder if you are.
Cathy: In life, just taking steps that grant you some kind of external validation money, you know, culture, what my friends tell me to do, what my parents told me to do. I’m gonna study what’s safe. You’re not gonna have a lot of wonder, right. I mean, I hate to be such a downer, but they’re really, how do you,
Todd: and it’s what makes us different from the animals.
Todd: Exactly. I don’t know if dogs can wonder, I don’t know if orangutans can wonder. Maybe they can wonder. They might. But we’re pretty, we have the capacity and you can insert wonder. You can insert a imagination. Awe. So I’m just gonna roll off some of these themes and you riff off of Okay. But I’ll just read ’em off real quick.
Todd: Field of dreams invites belief and imagination. Right. Imagination is what we’re talking about. Father-son relationships. Redemption and second chances. Correct. Baseball. Love the role of women. A you know, Annie? Is that her name? And how amazing she is.
Cathy: She’s the grounding force of the whole movie.
Todd: She is. Nostalgia and the past life and death and Rural America.
Cathy: Can I just throw out one thing because it has to be said and then I’m gonna put a pin in it. Sure.
Todd: Let’s put a pin in something. Okay. Can you say something?
Cathy: I am going to put a pin in this because during Terrence Malick’s speech at the end, Terrence Mel?
Cathy: No, that’s Terrence Malick, the director. Terrence Mann. Is that right? Terrence Mann? Terrence Malick, the director. Terrence Mann. Okay. Terrence Mann, he says that we can go back to a time when, oh, sorry. We can go back. You don’t have to play it. No, I’m not going to. We can go back to a time when things were good.
Cathy: And I get a little worried about listening to that, that’s that maga kind of feel. Well,
Todd: you know what I mean? Not just that there was a lot of. I mean, this was when things were good. Was that mean 1920s? Cuz there’s a lot of bad things that were going on in our world in the 1920s. Right. And there is a lot of bad things going on in 1980s.
Cathy: I think if I were to rework that scene, which nobody’s asking me to, I would say that baseball is the consistent thing that has reminded us of the good in every stage. Not that going back in time, like, I get it. The people are gonna come see the players from, you know, from a different time and relive their youth.
Cathy: Like, I get it. But I, when we romanticize a time that it was a better time. And that we need to go back to that time. I think we, that it’s a, at least at this stage we’re in 2023, that’s not a great thing
Todd: to say. Well, and especially in baseball. Like there’s, you know, let me just say one thing that I used to love about baseball.
Todd: The All-Star game. Because in the All-Star game when I was growing up, people didn’t change teams. Like Pete Rose was a Cincinnati Red or maybe a, I think he played for the Phillies and the Reds, but Rod Crew was on the Angels. Babe Ruth was on the Yankees. I know he got traded for Boston. But nowadays baseball people change all the time because of contracts money, because the contracts free agency, the money that is grabbed onto,
Todd: if you look at the average salary for a baseball player in 1985. I’m guessing it was like $200,000. And now it’s like million three, 3.5 million or something like that. The thing is there was all, but there was a lot of, and you know, like steroids intruded in baseball, but there was people taking uppers or speed or whatever it is in the seventies and the eighties.
Todd: Sure. Like they, I think they called them greenies or I forget what they called them. So, and gambling this whole idea that baseball was [00:13:20] more pure back then, it really wasn’t. Right. We wanna view it as more pure. And maybe there are some examples of how it was more pure.
Cathy: And so let me cut to the chase of what I think they’re attempting to say is when we experienced baseball as children, we were innocent. So we saw it through a lens of innocence. And so we’re not really going back to a time that was better. We are going back to a time when we were innocent. So these people who are lining up to go see the games in Dyersville, you know, Iowa.
Cathy: It’s because they wanna remember innocence, not because they wanna go back to 1952 or 1923. And I think that is like, there’s so many baseball movies that’s what it’s about. Like the plot is a kid loved baseball when they were little and it’s their grounding center and you know it’s fever pitch.
Todd: Well, you know, it’s sometimes you don’t wanna get certain things wrong. I don’t want to get certain things wrong. I understand. So Pete Rose did play for the Reds, the Phillies, and the Expo, and I did not remember the Expos.
Cathy: So let’s have a moment together on that. Sure. So, To me, pop culture’s super important and you’re like, nobody cares.
Cathy: To you, sports is really important and it matters to you.
Todd: Well, what it matters. It’s not even like if I make a mistake that the audience is going to use the information and be less smart about it. It’s honestly an egoic thing.
Cathy: That’s my point. For me too. Right? Like I, I’m not saying, but then people have the wrong information cause nobody cares.
Cathy: Nobody’s writing down what I’m saying?
Todd: I don’t want people to think, I don’t know what team’s Pete Rose, so it’s all me.
Cathy: Me too. Right. If I haven’t been clear about that. That’s me too. It’s like me saying something wrong. And then I listened to it the next day. Or I remember I said something and I’m like I said that wrong, but I actually know the information.
Cathy: So we kind of, people are like, they don’t really know. And we do, but we don’t know everything. No. Okay.
Todd: Go ahead. Okay. So those were the themes which makes this, and these are a few personal reasons why I like this movie. Okay. I loved Annie’s belief in her husband. Yep. Loved it.
Cathy: And where, and can I stop you there? Sure. Why do you think Annie has belief in her husband? Because it’s not just a woman believing in her man.
Todd: She trusts him. She knows that things will work out.
Cathy: She trusts herself. So when you trust yourself you have the capability to know that somebody, she trusts anybody else.
Cathy: Exactly. Cuz Annie’s a powerhouse. Like she knows what’s good and okay.
Todd: I liked the idea that you can meet your dad as a younger man. Wouldn’t that be great? Oh my God. Can you imagine like, my dad’s 83 right now. Your dad passed away a few years ago. It’s so, like, it hurts my brain to think about meeting my dad as anything other than the time.
Todd: The age and time that I now understand him to be.
Cathy: I know. Well in my, you know, we, like you said, my dad died in 2017, but prior to that, through my whole life, I was always trying to get to know dad. Dad died 2017. Geez. At least. Isn’t that crazy? Like we would wanna be like two years ago.
Cathy: But really that’s not the case. But I was always trying to get to know my dad as a young person. Like he always had these yearbooks that my sister still has, and people would write things in them and say things about him and I’d be like, what’s this story? And you know the story about my dad having a knife in his eye and he would never really tell me what happened.
Cathy: And I find out things like I got a newspaper clipping the other day about that. He used to be in charge of the gun club at the high school. My dad used to be in the NRA and then quit in the eighties when he saw it kind of go. And he, it used to be for safety one organization to another. So it’s like you learn these things and you’re like, man, what was that human like?
Cathy: And just, I learned that he had some learning disabilities and I learned that he had to get some remediation in college and things. And my dad’s an academic. And so it’s just interesting to even think about him in that way. And so to your point, it’s like a what if you met them before they had to be so responsible.
Cathy: Crazy. Right. Well, and that, that’s interesting with your dad. Right. How old was he when he and your mom got married?
Todd: Geez. I don’t know. I think he was like 25. And what was he doing
Cathy: before He was a police officer? He was a bartender. He was a bartender. Okay.
Todd: And then he also delivered flowers.
Cathy: I thought he did that while he was a police officer or he just went back to it.
Todd: Okay. He worked at a flower shop. Imagine my dad working in a flower shop. No, but it’s very
Cathy: interesting.
Todd: So some other things I like about it. We don’t know whose voice it is. Like the, if you build it, he will come voice. Did you read though
Cathy: who they think it is? They think it’s Ed Harris? Yeah, because that’s Amy Madigan’s husband.
Todd: But why don’t, why didn’t somebody tell us who it is? I kinda like the fact that we don’t
Cathy: Well, okay, so can we debate the voice for a second? Sure. Okay. So do you think that voice is his dad? I know I’m not talking about the actor who does the voice. Do you think that voice is his dad or do you think that voice is him?
Todd: I think it’s like God or something.
Cathy: Okay. So at the end When it’s kind of one of my, there’s so many favorite moments in this movie. There’s, it’s so warm. This movie like makes you feel so good. But when Shoeless Joe is running and he’s like, or when his dad shows up and Shoeless Joe’s about to leave and Ray says something like it was him.
Cathy: And then Shoeless Joe says, no, it was you. Interesting. E ease your pain. So are we easing his father’s pain, right. Or is Ray easing his pain? So is, so to your point we can debate, is our internal guidance a universal? Is it, you know, for people who appreciate the word God, right. Or people who appreciate the word universe.
Cathy: Is it that voice? Is it his internal guidance? Whatever you wanna call it, angels. Like, this is where language doesn’t serve us very well. Cause everybody has a different word for it. I think
Todd: I have the scene. Okay.
Todd: Hi.
Todd: What?
Cathy: He’s just staring at
Todd: him grinning at you ghost. If you build it,
Todd: he will come.
Todd: So pan over to his dad as a young man. And does Joe Jackson say something else to him? Let’s listen.
Cathy: What? What is it?
Cathy: It’s my father.
Cathy: Jesus Pain.
Todd: Ray, it was you. Okay? Okay. So when Ray says it was you, he’s looking at Joe Jackson saying it was Joe Jackson’s voice, I think, and then, and he whisper w Kevin Costner’s character is whispering it and Joe Jackson is way far away. So he can’t Right audibly hear him yet he does hear him because he’s a ghost.
Todd: So you think
Cathy: he’s saying to Joe it was
Todd: you? I don’t know. I do not know. I don’t
Cathy: know. I think he is, even if he’s whispering it, I think he’s saying under his breath that it was his dad, it was you. It was ease, like his dad was saying, ease his pain, meaning the father’s like, ease my pain. And Joe’s like, no, you needed to ease your pain.
Cathy: Now the beautiful part is it can be both.
Todd: I think it is both because the dad has pain, because Ray Kinsella s mom passed away when he was very young. So it was him and his dad.
Cathy: Well, he has pain because his son disconnected from him.
Todd: Right? Right. So, and you know, he also led a life of no wonder, right.
Todd: All he did was work and never really,
Cathy: And the thing that I will say about that is you have, you lose your wife in that time and space. Sure. And you are a parent to this child. And you have to have money. You have to put food on the table. Just like single moms today. No choice. So it’s like for him and Ray couldn’t understand this as a young man, but he can’t, or at the wherever he was in life.
Cathy: You know, John Kinsella wonder wasn’t on the table. And so when I think Ray understands that he’s losing the farm, all these things are happening where he is like, I understand now. What my dad couldn’t do. Right. He was a young man at one point. He did have dreams,
Todd: you know?
Todd: So, and Ray’s pain is that he never had a chance to, he disconnected from his dad. He had no closure from his
Cathy: dad. Well, and he said a mean thing to him, to to disconnect from him. What did he say? Do you remember? He said, I could never respect a man whose idol is a criminal.
Todd: Ooh, there you go. And that’s Joe, and that was Joe Jackson.
Cathy: And then Terrence says, but you knew he wasn’t a criminal. Right? And he’s like,
Todd: well, and just so everybody knows, the reason he was a criminal is because Joe Jackson was one of eight other White Sox players. And I think the 1919 World Series. Who were suspended permanently from baseball for taking money by gamp, from gamblers to throw the World Series.
Todd: Now, the one thing that goes down in the history books is that Joe Jackson actually did take the money yet he played very well. A World series. He had a good game. Yeah, and if you wanna know more about that, just watch the movie Eight Men Out, which is really good. I will say this is a new category, haven’t sprung on you, sweetie.
Todd: Oh, let’s hear it. It’s called What song do you think of when you hear, when you think of this movie? And it could be a song from within the movie. Or a song not from Within the movie. And I’m about to play the song that I think of that is not within. I hope it’s not. Put Me In Coach. No, that would be good.
Todd: No.
Cathy: Oh nice
Todd: talking to you Dad. It’s been Sure. Nice talking to you. And as a hung up the phone, it occurred to me he grown up just like me. My boy was just like me.
Todd: And I think this song goes down as the one that’s most likely to make grown men cry. Really? I mean, I don’t, that’s not scientific, but I can’t think of one that hits harder than that one.
Cathy: So, it reminds me of a quote, a James Baldwin quote that I was just using yesterday when I was writing and in, so we’re gonna put on our Zen parenting radio hat for a second.
Cathy: Everybody. Hold on. Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them. Ah, so, you know, oh God, that’s so good. So it’s like we We don’t listen yet. We don’t listen. But we do emulate. We do. And what we see, we do, because that’s, we’re, you know, there’s so many layers of this.
Cathy: There’s like the neurobiological layer, there’s the psychological layer, there’s a spiritual layer, there’s, and so we aren’t imitating our parents cuz we’re necessarily choosing it. It’s just we’re bathing in it. We’re like marinating in what our parents are. Right. And this is why when we’re on Zen Parenting Radio, Todd and I are always talking about, you know, the importance of role modeling.
Cathy: And I don’t mean role modeling perfection. I mean, being a human being, how to deal with pain, how to cry, how to grieve, how to be, how to practice kindness. How to practice self-compassion. Like it’s not about suppressing, it’s about being your full human self. So your kids learn to do that too, because if you try and tell them to be something, forget it.
Cathy: They’re not going to hear you. Doesn’t work. Children learn by watching how you live. This is the quote from my first book. Children don’t learn from listening. What to what you say they learn by watching how you live. That is the in and why I call it neurobiological. It is the hardwiring of their brain.
Cathy: Because they grew up in a home with you. So it’s not sometimes we’re like, and we just end up in this pattern where we’re doing exactly what our parents do.
Todd: Sometimes we’re like, what? How did we get there? No. You’re supposed to say that sound effect. I really like that sound.
Cathy: Well, it’s like a leveling up or down.
Cathy: It’s like where, you know, we think we’re doing all these things and then all of a sudden we react a certain way, like our parent does. Or we make a choice that our parent would, or we have, we’re very reactive with our anger. Like our parent. And we’re like, how did we get there?
Cathy: And as kids we’re like, I would never be like that. I would never do that. I would never do that. And all of a sudden you’re so. This is not something to be afraid of, but to be aware of. And when, and to, as a parent, when you are talking to your kids and telling them, Hey, [00:26:40] don’t vape while you are vaping they’re not hearing the message of,
Todd: or don’t be addicted to your screen as you’re watching the game and checking your email Exactly.
Todd: And doing something else at same time.
Cathy: And it le and so people say, well, what do I do because I need my phone, or I’m addicted to my vape, or whatever. Be honest about it. Yeah, talk about it. Say This is hard for me. That’s something I’m struggling with. Something can connect with. Exactly.
Cathy: Like to say to a kid, like, I understand why you like this because I do too. And do, you know, do you know about what addiction feels like? Or what, you know, so you’re being a full human rather than a lecturing power over human being, you know? So anyway,
Todd: A few other things I love about this movie. I love the idea that the naysayers can’t see the baseball players.
Cathy: It’s the best part because it’s so. It’s metaphorical.
Todd: It is. It’s spiritual. Because you love numbers and coincidences and there’s times when you share those stories with me and sometimes I’m wondrous about it, and other times I’m like, oh, that’s weird.
Todd: And then I move on. And it doesn’t mean you’re right and I’m wrong, or I’m right and you’re wrong. But unless you’re wearing the curiosity hat, you’re not gonna see this stuff.
Cathy: Right. And do you wanna know when I see this stuff the most? When I’m grieving? When I’m grieving, I’m like a wide open.
Cathy: And when I say grieving, I don’t mean like a immediately after a loss. I mean, when I’m in that really vulnerable place, I see it everywhere. I see numbers, I see birds, I see butterflies, I hear sounds. I get information because I’m so open. And sometimes sharing it dilutes it.
Todd: You know what I mean? Well, what I was gonna say is the reason I think those things.
Todd: Symbols, metaphors, reminders, coincidence to show up when you’re grieving. I think when we’re grieving, we’re more our authentic selves. You’re open. You’re more open to it. So
Cathy: And you are not so like, I have so many, the guardrails aren’t necessarily defense mechanisms. They’re just life guardrails.
Cathy: They’re like, I’m moving through life. I gotta do the next thing. I gotta do the next thing. I gotta be productive. I gotta make dinner. And when you’re grieving you, like on Friday I was, it was my daughter’s last day of school and my middle daughter, she’s graduating this Sunday, so she’s all done with high school.
Cathy: And I’ve been kind of doing okay with it. I’ve been talking to my therapist about it, like I’ve been trying to have these grief sessions where I’m being in tune with it. But on Friday I got hit, like at over the head, like with a hammer. And so I was sitting in a chair for how long? Three hours, a good chunk of the morning.
Cathy: And I kept texting my friends, saying, you guys, I’m like, stuck. Like I’m crying. I’m, and they’re like, sit there. Like sometimes you need someone because Todd, you’re my favorite person in the whole world. But you go straight back to work. Like Todd goes to the office, he’s asking me questions like, and I can’t shift like that.
Cathy: And so I need someone to say it’s okay to sit there. Not why are you sitting there, but like understand. Cuz I would tell people that all the time. So I need people to tell me and. I felt very open and alive and I felt very sad, and it was also absolutely necessary.
Todd: Well, and I’ll just say one more thing about grief or loss, or when things are not going well in one’s life, that’s when most musicians say their best work comes from.
Todd: That’s creative, right?
Cathy: Imagination. You aren’t stuck in a pattern. Your pattern has been disrupted and your world has kind of been, even if it’s something where it’s supposed to be happening, like your daughters graduated from high school, that’s the plan. That’s a good thing. But there’s something where you’re like, my life is changing.
Cathy: Right? And so every there’s, you’re not in a pattern. You’re like open to new patterns and like, so, and just emotions. Like, I think when we cry or when we grieve, we have more space for maybe what we weren’t able to consider.
Todd: A few other things that I love about this movie. One is the sound of a Midwestern summer.
Todd: Ugh. The crickets. The best. It’s just like, I love that sound. Part of me wishes I could, do you ever watch a movie for the 45th time like we, we do often? That you wish you can view it again for the first time? Sometimes to experience it without not knowing nothing about it? Sometimes almost.
Todd: It’s like, like I, I did not give myself permission to be impacted because I was having a bad day, or I went in with a sense of, High expectations or low expectations. I would love to be able to see this movie for the first time.
Cathy: You know, again, I to, I totally know what you’re saying. I think that you and I are a little different in that I am someone who likes to know the plot and the structure so I can absorb the deeper meanings.
Cathy: Like, I tend to watch shows like, you know, something like Yellow Jackets or whatever, more than once, because I’m like, okay, now I got the plot of what they’re doing now. I wanna feel all the stuff that’s happening. And so for me, going into Field of Dreams now, even though I totally understand what you’re saying, I appreciate that I don’t have to follow a storyline.
Cathy: I just get to enjoy the feeling moments. Like I know what’s happening, I know who this guy is, I know who this dude is, you know? So in a way, To I, what I will tell you though is I still cry at the end of that movie.
Todd: I got goosebumps multiple times.
Cathy: Me too. And that’s what I mean is like it doesn’t fail that knowing what’s going to happen or who this man is at the end, or the first time Shoeless Joe comes out.
Cathy: Like, I actually will tell you that every time Karen comes in, that’s his daughter and says there’s a man on the field. It’s almost a scary feeling. Creepy. It’s haunting. It is. It’s because first of all, there’s no, he doesn’t have lights on the field yet, and so you can’t really see who it is, but Ray knows.
Cathy: That it’s somebody important cuz he’s been waiting for a season for this to happen.
Todd: Cuz you see him through the whole winter.
Cathy: Yep. Watching the field. So it’s like, I’m getting goosebumps now. Like it doesn’t fail to give me the feels.
Todd: Well, and I will say that it’s funny because I typically don’t cry in movies, but I do get that feeling inside my body, the goosebump feeling.
Todd: And you know, as somebody who shared a bazillion times that I sometimes judge myself because I should have certain experiences, I’m now getting more friendly with the idea of, oh, the way I do it is I get this. Energetic, I don’t know what, I don’t know how to describe it, but from my tailbone all the way up my back in these certain moments.
Todd: Tingles. Tingles. Thank you. So I’m just getting more friendly with, oh, maybe I’d get the tingles goose bumpy stuff.
Cathy: And I would believe that because you are on the search, you are searching for a pattern or somebody feels this way, so I need to feel that way versus how does my body experience this instead of being present.
Cathy: Right. Yeah, for sure. You’re kind of looking outside yourself again versus Oh, the way, because you know, you just said this Todd, but the way people feel grief, warmth, sadness or awe feels different depending on who you are. For sure.
Todd: So this is another category I haven’t told you about.
Todd: Okay. I
Cathy: just wait, what
Todd: was the last category? What song does this did? But I didn’t give a song. I didn’t wanna put you on the spot cuz I didn’t prepare you. No.
Cathy: I, you know, there is another one. There’s one by Kat Stevens called Father and Son. That’s the only one I could come up with because it, it often is put alongside,
Todd: How does it go? I’ve heard it. Can you sing it for me? No. Oh, babe.
Cathy: No, I don’t really wanna sing. I, you know, part of the reason is because of how the song goes. Like if it was a rock song and I could just go dun. But it’s like, it’s,
Todd: you know. Take your, which one do you like better? Cats In the Cradle or Father and Son?
Todd: I think,
Cathy: Cats in The Cradle is, I knew at first. Father and Son I think I came across in college. And but it’s the same kind of disconnection, the same kind of like, you know, not knowing each other.
Todd: I’m gonna play some of it. Okay. We’ll be here tomorrow. Oh but,
Todd: How can I try to explain when I do away? Oh so is it the same idea? Disconnection? Yeah,
Cathy: It’s like we don’t get each other.
Todd: Oh, I’ll take the cats in the cradle one. But that’s a pretty good backup. Yeah, for sure. So here’s a new category. Okay. I’m gonna call it other scenes. And what it is I’ve put together three or four scenes from actors in this movie, but makes me think of them in the other movie.
Todd: It’ll make more sense when I start playing it. Okay, here we go.
Todd: You happened with your father. He told me
Cathy: enough. I’m picturing him with his fist. Oh he told me.
Cathy: Spoiler alert,
Todd: it’s not true. That’s, I, Luke is so
Cathy: mad. Well, I was just gonna say, I think Mark Hamel kind of gets a lot of crap for being, you know, the dialogue. And it’s not his fault George Lucas wrote it, but I think in that scene he acts like a little boy in a really cool way. Yeah, I agree. He’s like a child.
Cathy: He’s got it. All of his dreams have just been like destroyed. His father is the worst human in the world. He’s not even human. All right, you ready for the next one? Wait, but what is, what are you playing that for? Just cause
Todd: It’s James. James Earl Jones. Oh, okay. James Earl Jones.
Todd: This
Cathy: is a tasty burger. Vincent, you ever had a big Ho burger? One bite. They real tasty. Can’t hungry. Well, if you like burgers, give ‘
Todd: em a
Cathy: try sometime. Me, I can’t usually get ’em cause my girlfriend’s a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me a vegetarian, but,
Todd: I do love the taste of a good burger. You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Todd: No. Tell ’em Vincent Roy with cheese. Roy with cheese. You know why they call it that?
Todd: Because of the metric system.
Cathy: Check out the big brain hunt, Brad.
Todd: How many times have I said check out? Check out the big brain on Brad. Check Big. But
Cathy: now why are you playing that for a field of dreams?
Todd: Because Brad is in the movie. That’s the same actor. You’re right.
Cathy: That’s Archie. Yeah, it’s Archie Gramse.
Cathy: Oh, I’m sorry. Sorry. I didn’t connect that. So those are very, so Jules eating the burger with Archie Graham.
Todd: You ready for the next one? All right, let’s go. This one you’ll get. Pretty quickly. Okay. In 2005. Thank you. Thank you. I also see from your resume that you’re devilishly handsome, but with a churning inner turmoil that’s always ready to blow.
Todd: Enjoy what I do. Is that Not yet? It isn’t, but is this what it’s come to for you, Mr. Leotta exploiting tiny helpless bees so you don’t have to rehearse your part and learn your lines, sir, watch it. Benson. I could blow right now. This isn’t a good fella, this bad.
Cathy: I love. The best part about this is he’s holding his Emmy from his ER appearance. He was on one ER episode. The Bee movie connection in our home is quite strong. I feel like Todd taught our girls about who Ray Leotta was, who Sting was, who Oprah was because of Bill or the movie. Yeah, for sure. So now our girls, like everything relates back to Bee movie.
Cathy: So last night we were like, there he is.
Todd: You ready for the last one?
Todd: Comes booger.
Cathy: All right.
Todd: Poindexter Babe Poindexter, who plays whatever his name is the brother-in-law. And
Cathy: you know, it’s funny that you would say that because to me he is from 30 something. Oh, really? Remember
Todd: I saw
Cathy: that show? Oh my goodness. He was, were we in our twenties when that show was going on? Correct.
Cathy: Which is why it was so meaningful. Especially my friend Laura and I, because it’s like, those are who, those are the people we’re gonna become. It was like right there on the horizon. It was a great show actually. You know what Todd it is. It was like the pre. You know, parenthood type of show.
Cathy: Like the pre Friday night lights kind of show. Like it was like a lot of dialogue. A lot of relationship focus. But yeah. Timothy Busfield, is that his name?
Todd: That sounds right. Timothy Busfield. And then lastly, we didn’t talk about Burt Lancaster. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a movie that guy’s been in, but there’s one that I’ve heard of.
Todd: Okay. Let’s hear it From Here to Eternity. Never. I never saw it, but that’s all I got.
Cathy: I like, we all know, maybe we don’t all know I’m being a Gen Xer here. We know who Burt [00:40:00] Lancaster is, but I don’t know, like, you know, he was just kind of one of those names like Clark Gable, Burt Land. I can’t say Lancaster, but let’s see.
Cathy: I’m looking from here to eternity. Clea or No? No. Field of Dreams. Don’t know that. Do you want me to read you some? No, I’m looking at ’em right now. Sorry, everybody. This is not good podcasting. I’m just reading. Atlantic City. I kind of remember that in the eighties. Have you seen it? No. No? No. Okay.
Cathy: I didn’t see it. I just remember it. Oh, Birdman of Alcatraz. He was in the original Sweet Smell of Success. So I’m kind of with you. Oh, tough guys. Remember Burt Lancaster and Burt Douglas? Oh yeah, I do remember that. So he was just kind of a,
Todd: Who’s the modern day? Burt Lancaster.
Todd: Tom Hanks. Okay. So
Cathy: he was that big. Well, I think Tom Hanks is actually Jimmy Stewart, but he is in that echelon.
Todd: Do you know that the director tried to get Jimmy Stewart to play that part? And Jimmy Stewart said no because he was 10 years removed from acting. So he just he said no.
Cathy: Interesting. Right.
Cathy: I loved the way Burt Lancaster played it. So do I think he’s great. So sweet and warm. And he captures exactly the person they’re trying to describe. He’s really what’s not subdued. He doesn’t overdo it. You know, it’s just, that’s how an older gentleman would be. He doesn’t overact.
Cathy: No. That’s how an old, you know, a man of that generation
Todd: would speak. All right. So I’m gonna rattle off my favorite, the coolest parts of the movies, and you tell me which one you like, or a few that you like, cuz I’m sure we’re, we’ll have the same one. Sure. The first coolest part of the movie for me was Joe Jackson being on the field for the very first time.
Todd: When the little girl says there’s some there’s a man on, there’s a man on the field, like goosebumps. Right. The baseball people. The second is, and if you think there’s another one, Uhhuh that I’m skipping over, let me know. Okay. The time travel in, we’ll call it Galen, Illinois. Cuz that’s where they filmed it.
Todd: But Kevin Costner’s character walks out because James Earl Jones character has to make a phone call and he time travels, I think, or Oh right. 1972. And as a viewer, we have no idea. We just think he’s going out for a walk and then it, and then the GA man turns around and it’s Moonlight Graham.
Todd: And we’re seeing that for the first time. That was pretty awesome.
Cathy: Are you trying to go in order because there’s 31. Okay. So the one that I would go back to, and I think it’s important character development for Annie is the PTA meeting. Okay. I didn’t necessarily get warm fuzzies, I just thought it was, it’s important, very interesting that we are still struggling with people who wanna ban books.
Cathy: I remember watching this movie for the first time and being like, wow, this is really a throwback, people who wanna ban books. And here we are in 2023 and people are trying to ban books. And so Annie gives a good speech, obviously it’s very very movie ish where everyone ends up agreeing with her at the end.
Cathy: And I don’t think it’d be that way today. But you know, the whole idea that our kids are reading smut or that we’re like, you know, hurting their brains by them actually reading about what it feels like to be their age. And, you know, just. Too much too much deciding how everybody else should live.
Todd: You ready to hear it?
Cathy: Field Now there’s an intelligent response. Thanks the weirdo Annie. Honey. It’s all right. I’ll be cool. I’ll be cool. At least he is not a book burner. You Nazi cow.
Cathy: Least I’m not married to the biggest horse’s ass in three counties.
Todd: And then she goes on
Cathy: for a baby. She, and she gives a nice speech about isn’t, you know, aren’t what we’re fighting for in this country. You know, the ability to read what we want and to, you know, why did we go to war with Nazism if we wanna embrace that? It’s crazy. Right. And but what I love about the scene, I love Kevin Costner in this scene cuz he’s so distracted.
Cathy: Because he’s getting another message or he’s getting a download from the universe. Is that from the voice where he has He’s pain. He’s his pain. Okay. So he’s right, he’s figuring out, and what he realizes there is, cuz they’re talking about Terrence Malick or he keeps saying Terrence Malick, Terrence Mann’s book, the Boat rocker.
Cathy: That that he, that’s he’s supposed to go get Terrence Malick. So you know everything for,
Cathy: oh my God, you have to help me. I just did. Okay. Thank you Terrence Mann. Created character for this movie. Because he was supposed to be JD Salinger. JD Salinger. Catcher in the Rye.
Todd: I watched a doc, not a documentary, an interview with the director, writer director last night. And he, the writer of the book, I think had JD Salinger in mind and then the director wanted to do it, and then he heard from the people representing his estate said, please don’t, yeah, we’re not happy that this was in the book.
Todd: Please don’t put it on a different platform. Don’t put it in a movie. And the director said to himself, if, you know, cuz he was a fan of JD Salinger. If this is the only thing this man wants is to be left alone, then let’s leave him alone.
Cathy: And from what I understand about JD Salinger, you know, obviously Catcher and the Rye will always be a classic and it really, you know, strikes a chord with people who are that age.
Cathy: But he was not happy that he wrote it. That’s crazy. I know. And so he was not happy because of the attention it brought to him. Wow. Todd, this is crazy. I just got a text from my aunt because I’m sorry to like jump into this.
Todd: Are you being wondrous right now?
Cathy: I’m being very wondrous because I texted my aunt this morning, so it’s not that crazy that this is happening.
Cathy: But the Galena piece that I’m just gonna jump into is that my grandparents lived in Galena. My mom lived in Galena. My aunt lived in Galena, and they ran the Ben Franklin on Main Street for people who are our age. You may remember it if you ever visited there, but it like took up two buildings and it was a dime store called Ben Franklin.
Cathy: It was my grandfather’s. It burned down. And it was a huge deal. Like it was my grandfather’s greatest fear that it would burn. Like that was one of his greatest fears. And so I, we were watching the movie last night. I was looking at Main Street and I was wondering when they’re in the small town, what Moonlight Grand.
Cathy: They’re saying they’re in Minnesota, but they’re in so I was looking down Main Street and I was like, was it the Ben Franklin or was it what it is now? You know, which is the chocolate shop and then another store. And so I was like, what year did it happen? It burned down in 1989. So I wonder if it happened right after this movie was filmed.
Cathy: I think that’s what happened.
Todd: That’s crazy. Because they filmed, I’m sure they filmed in 88
Cathy: Right? Because Came out in 1989. Wow. What a like, because it kind of, it’s hard to tell cuz it’s far enough away. Right. But anyway, I just got a text from Peg and that says, pretty sure it was 1989. That’s pretty awesome.
Todd: Okay, go on. The next coolest part of the movie for me was picking up the hitchhiker. Oh, it’s the best. Realizing that it’s the younger version of Archie Graham.
Cathy: Okay. One thing I remember though is before that, when they’re at the game and it says, and he hears go the distance. Is, and then when Terrence Mann, there you go.
Cathy: Says you know, he says, go the distance and or no, he doesn’t say that yet. He said, what did you hear? And he said, what I heard is let this man go. You know, go home. He’s done enough. Right. I’m, the first time I watched it, I was so mad. Like, gratefully they figure it out. And Terrence Mann admits to hearing something too, but I remember the moment of being like, oh my God.
Cathy: Tell him. Right. You know? So, anyway, we only had to sit in that for a few minutes.
Todd: Little slow think this is. When they pick up Archie? No. No. This is when he thinks he’s saying goodbye. Oh, and then he shows up on telling me, yeah, I’ve already taken up too much of your time.
Todd: No, he gets out and all that. I think words are exchanged. Maybe not. No, I think he
Cathy: leans in. Oh, okay. I, but I’m not sure. I wish I had your passion, Ray misdirected what it might be. It is still a passion. I used to feel that way about things. But
Cathy: you got another message, didn’t you? You think I’m crazy. I already think you’re crazy. What didn’t say
Cathy: Said the man’s done enough.
Todd: Be alone.
Cathy: And you, the reason I struggled with it is that moment you can feel Terrence Mann being vulnerable. And he’s like, tell me, yeah, maybe it’ll make a difference. And the fact that he doesn’t take that opportunity, and I get it, and obviously it resolves,
Todd: but I, well, the way it resolves is, and this is one of my biggest questions, okay.
Todd: The biggest but kind of funny, silly, stupid questions. He drives away, makes a U-turn, and then in the headlights there’s Terrence Mann. Right. What if Kevin Costner’s character never did a U-turn? Like there’s no cell phones. Like the fact that he decided instead of he could’ve just driven straight and then that’s it.
Todd: Terrence Mann’s outta the movie. Well, but because he did a U-turn, all of a sudden he shows back up. There’s a lot of faith that Terrence Mann had, let’s say that he was gonna do a U-turn because otherwise he was on his way back to Iowa or Minnesota or wherever he was going. I get what you’re saying.
Cathy: But I also think Terence’s man was going to stop him no matter if he did the U-turn or went forward. Maybe one happened.
Todd: No,
Todd: Terrance Mann would not have been able to catch up with that car, sweetie. So he
Cathy: was fast. He’s
Todd: Darth Vader. He could’ve just used the
Cathy: force. He could’ve used the force. That’s right.
Cathy: So, okay. I get
Todd: what you’re saying. You with me? Picking up the younger Moonlight. Graham’s kind of awesome. Archie. And
Cathy: then well, and let’s stop there. Another cool thing is how he gets in and he is talking about I can go play ball in these certain areas and they’ll give me a day job.
Cathy: Kind of reminded me, I know it’s not the same at all, but like a league of their own. You know, like they gave these people jobs, it was like a thing. Right. That’s what they did. And you would just go somewhere to play.
Todd: I might be skipping over some scenes, so tell me if there’s anything else you wanna talk about.
Todd: Okay. But when the girl falls off the bleacher the young Archie Graham steps off the ball field and turns into Burt Lancaster with the doctor bag. It’s
Cathy: Awesome. That’s one of the warmest, like most soothing scenes. And I think there’s a lot of messages in that scene. First of all, that the innocence of youth is amazing.
Cathy: And the ability to live a dream is amazing, but aging also is amazing. Right. The experience of, you know, and what Burt Lancaster says or what, you know, Archie Graham says, Dr. Graham, he says, you know, if, you know, if I was only able to be a doctor five minutes, that would’ve been, that would’ve been a tragedy.
Cathy: So, I think one thing this movie does is where it really highlights our youth and it’s nostalgic, and we’re like, you know, live your dreams when you’re young. It also is like, and the rest of your life is pretty damn good too. So embrace
Todd: it all. Well, and I also wanna add so the next part I’m gonna see is when we realize Archie can’t go back to being a player.
Todd: So we’re slowly understanding the rules of the field of dreams. Some people get to go in the corn. Yep. When they go in the corn, they slowly disappear and then they come back and play baseball. Kevin Costner’s not invited. Tyab is not invited. Tyca is not invited. Turns out that they were friends in real life, which is funny.
Todd: Oh, that is funny. Jackson Ty Cobb. Maybe not they were friendly towards one another’s. Just say that. So we’re starting to kind of get the rules of, and we don’t know all the rules. There’s still more reveals. And that’s one of the things I love about this movie is there’s like, Six endings.
Todd: And each one gets more and more satisfying. Which is, and I think that’s one of the, like if I were say, what sets this movie apart is the amount of satisfying endings that don’t seem contrived or forced satisfying
Cathy: moments. Because they’re all throughout the movie, like him showing up, then he brings in his friends.
Cathy: The other eight players who were banned and then he brings in another team and he’s like, and he’s so. Shoeless show is so cordial, like Ray, is this okay? If we bring other players, right. And you know, again, it’s a movie, but they’re asking permission. If I was Ray, I’d be like, dude, bring anyone you want.
Cathy: You know? But there’s a like a Oh, yeah. You can bring them. But there’s such a respect. Like I think one of the things about this movie too is the other thing, the innocence or the nostalgia, and I think this can be in any time period, is a respect for other human beings. A dignity that people treat each other with.
Cathy: Sure. That is not based in a certain time period. It’s based in. You know, every time period has people who treat people with dignity. And that’s what’s so interesting to me is in this time in space, sorry, I’m gonna do something, I’m gonna do a history thing. In this time in space, those of us who have gone to school and looked at pictures and watched people who burned books and watched people who were like [00:53:20] against, you know, desegregating and watched people.
Cathy: And we like, would look at people in the pictures and be like, who are those awful people who, you know, yell at kids as they’re going into school or burn books, or who go against women’s rights and it’s happening again. And how do people not see themselves in that? How do people not think about the pictures and the history they’ve learned and realize they’re those people now?
Cathy: I don’t it’s a disconnect for me. You know, and I know the answer would be like, that’s. You know, greed, you know, power lack of education. Like there are reasons. Sure. But I think this movie gives us this inherent dignity of all people, which is why it’s so warm. You know, not perfect people.
Cathy: No, but
Todd: good people. And then this scene
Cathy: on a perfect afternoon,
Cathy: they’ll find they have reserved seats somewhere along one of the faces of their set when they were children and cheered their heroes. And they’ll watch the game. It’ll be as if they dip themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they’ll have to brush
Todd: them away from their faces. Ray, when the bank opens in the morning, they’ll, foreclose will come Ray.
Todd: You’re broke, Ray, you sell now or you lose everything. The
Cathy: one constant through all the years, Ray, it’s been
Cathy: Baseball.
Todd: People will come, Ray.
Cathy: So, you know, so let’s just talk about baseball for a second, please. Let’s, so, I don’t know. I mean, I, it’s not a Midwestern thing cause there’s baseball teams in every state and every place and you know, it’s, I don’t wanna just connect it to the Midwest or us, but you and I both have a really strong relationship with baseball.
Cathy: I know you are a bigger sports fan than I am. Meaning, you know, the history of baseball and you’ve, you know, Been very dedicated to the sport yourself. Sure. But it’s, for me, it’s been more of a constant of my life. Sure. Like, I was thinking about this last night because I feel the same things about baseball or similar things that you do.
Cathy: And I did play, I played softball. I didn’t play baseball, but softball’s the same kind of.
Todd: So you struck out mania to end the season? I did. And so I obviously know how to play and it was just a big part of my family. Sure. You know, like a big part of living in Chicago or we lived outside of Chicago.
Todd: But, you know, it’s, we’re such you know, the like, I don’t know how to say this, but not enjoying baseball. Seems weird. To me, like when someone’s like, what game would you wanna watch on TV the most? And it’s like, Baseball. Like, that just seems like the way to go. But I know not everybody feels that way.
Todd: Right. I know some people are much bigger football fans or hockey fans or whatever it may be, soccer. But that’s another reason I think you and I connect to this movie is cuz all that nostalgia he’s talking about you and I have. Right. So we feel, we look at a, you know, you look out at the corn or you watch ball players and you get that feeling of a comfort food, you know, not food, but you know, it’s like a comfort feel.
Todd: Well, and I wanna, so, so yeah I grew up playing baseball. I love baseball. I like going to the games. I like watching the games. Obviously, you know, They say like, it’s the one game that never changes. It changes all the time. Changes. There was no DH in 1962. Yeah, we came up with a DH in the sixties or the seventies.
Todd: There is no pitch clock. Now there is 2023. There were no lights in Wrigley Field. There were no lights in Wrigley Field. So it does change but in the, but there are certain aspects of it that never do. So it’s wonderful. And it reminds me of that scene. I tried to find it. I can’t find it in City Slickers where Daniel Stern’s character.
Todd: Is talking about his relationship with his father. And there was a time in his life where he could not connect with his dad at all, but they can still talk about baseball. And I don’t know, I always kind of get goose bumpy when I think of that too, because I think that is completely true in many men’s lives.
Todd: Baseball
Cathy: in sports
Todd: overall, don’t you think? Sports, but but so, but baseball’s bigger. Insert whatever sport you want. But so.
Cathy: Well, and we, so let’s do a quick lineup of baseball movies that we love. Field of Dreams is obvious. We love Fever Pitch. I know people didn’t love Fever Pitch, but we did.
Cathy: We watch it all the time. It’s Jimmy Fallon and Drew Barrymore. We love a League of Their Own. We love Bull Durham. We love. Sorry I’m putting us together, but we you’re doing fine. We love all these movies for sure. What’s another good baseball? You want me to help you out?
Cathy: Yeah, keep going. The natural, the Nat. You love that more than I do.
Todd: Do you say Major League?
Cathy: Oh, major League Love Major League. I did not see, or if I saw Eight Men Out, it’s been too long.
Todd: Eight Men Out. It’s a good movie. It’s not funny or anything, but it’s a good movie. Major League. I love Major League.
Todd: I’m gonna Google 20 best baseball movies and see what happens. Okay,
Todd: let’s see what we got. Is it Spongy Field of Dreams? The Nat Number one is Field of Dreams. Number two is The Natural. Okay. Three is The League of their Own. Four is Bull Durham, five is Moneyball. Oh I
Cathy: love Moneyball. But Moneyball is interesting cuz there’s no warmth in Moneyball. No, I think Moneyball is what you’re talking about where it changes.
Cathy: Baseball changes. So that’s an easy movie to watch. But it’s not a Bull Durham movie.
Todd: Major League then 42, which I’m embarrassed to say I have not yet seen, have I? That’s wrong. And then here’s, is that Chadwick Boseman? I don’t know who played Jackie Robinson. Yeah, I think he’s Chad.
Todd: But I heard it was really good. And then I will also, my hottest take of this podcast will be this one. I think the Sandlot is completely overrated. Oh. And I know men my age love that movie. Okay. And I watched it on an airplane like three years ago, and I kept waiting for it to get good. And I’m embarrassed or sad or scared to admit that it might be that the movie, if I would’ve watched this movie 30 years ago when you were a child, I would’ve loved it.
Todd: But now that I’m an old man, I don’t think it’s as good. I think
Cathy: that there’s movies like Gremlins and Goonies and stuff like that, that if you wash it when you were young, it made an imprint. But Goonies is still awesome. Because you saw it as a kid, you’re not making the
Todd: connection yet. Got it. So you’re saying if I would’ve seen Sandlot when it came out in 1993 when I was a 19 year old man?
Cathy: But how many movies did we see in the early eighties that were like, it’s the best and then we watch it now and we’re like, oh G, when we thinking it’s so bad. So how about before you read it? Bad News Bears? We loved that. Bad New
Todd: Bears. Number 12.
Todd: Okay. And then they have a bunch that I have not seen, say a few of them, just to see The Rookie, Pride of the Yankees, which I think is about Lou Garrick. Yep. Bang the Drums Slowly. For Love of the Game, which is another Kevin Costner movie. We’ve seen that one. I’ve never seen it. The Stratton Story, The Pride of St. Louis, isn’t Judy Garland in that. Oh, that’s a spirit of, that’s Meet Me in St. Louis. I thought it was A Spirit of St. Louis.
Cathy: Oh, I thought it was Meet Me in St. I dunno. Well, what about the one, wasn’t Justin Timberlake in a baseball movie? Let’s just say
Todd: if he was, it was a bad movie. Okay, let’s just go ahead with that.
Todd: Okay. So my last two
Cathy: scenes, what about the fan with Robert De Niro? Oh, Wesley
Todd: Snipes. It’s a funny movie.
Cathy: What about Naked Gun? There’s a lot of
Todd: baseball in that. Yes, it was Enrico Palazzo. Enrico Palazzo. That’s great. So the last two coolest parts of the movie. Okay. Obviously we see the dad.
Todd: And then the ending shot and the helicopter with all the
Cathy: lights. So Cool. Well, can I, so let’s talk about his dad. So, John Kinsella, I literally thought forever. That actor was Campbell Scott,
Todd: is that the guy from Singles? Oh,
Cathy: really? Doesn’t it look like Campbell Scott Similarities?
Cathy: He was in singles and he was in Dying Young
Todd: with Julia Roberts. I think he looks like the guy from River runs through it. The Twrp brother of the female Lead and River runs through it. Oh a little
Cathy: bit, whatever that guy’s name is. But Mike Campbell Scott was so chiseled. And then even, this is a crazy one.
Cathy: Griffin Dunn, who now is in this is us and is the brother, and he’s an old guy, so everybody visualizes him that way, but he kind of looked like him too. We had a lot of actors that had a similar but point being, is that Dwyer Brown? I’d never heard that name before. No. Do you, did you know who that was?
Cathy: No. Okay. But anyway, that’s John Kinsella. Well, I just wonder if
Todd: we do an IMDB on that guy. What’s his name?
Cathy: Dwyer Brown. And he’s like still kind of using Field of Dreams. He wrote a book called If You Build It, he was in
Todd: to live and Die in la. Oh, I like that movie. He was in Red Dragon. Didn’t see that.
Todd: And the cutting edge, the
Cathy: ice skating
Todd: movie. Huh. And his last entry in the IMDB is in 2016. So he’s not acting as much. He’s not doing much these days. Anyway, I just never knew it was. So those are my favorite scenes. And let’s see, what else did I have here? A few quotes that we haven’t yet talked about.
Todd: Okay. Let’s see. Eases pain go the distance. So those are the So talk to me about go the distance. I don’t know. It’s, I don’t think it’s as symbolic. I don’t either symbolically impactful as the other one means don’t keep going. Just don’t quit. Eases pain is pretty good. If you build it, he will come.
Todd: There is a lot of people that think if you build it, he, they will come.
Cathy: I said that last night. I was like, it’s so funny. I was expecting him to say they.
Todd: Let’s see. And so, yeah, I have a bunch of trivia. Okay. Let’s hear it. All right. I’m gonna go with, so when you get bored, you gotta tell me, you know.
Todd: I will. All right. According to the supplementary material on the dvd, shortly before shooting began, Dwyer Brown. The one who we were just talking about. John Kinsella was notified that his father unfortunately passed away. Oh. Immediately after four, the funeral, he traveled directly from the funeral to filming in Iowa.
Todd: For the scene, he stated that although the emotion was too fresh and painful, it had an effect on how he eventually played his scene with Kevin Costner.
Cathy: That’s lovely. I mean, sad
Todd: but lovely. After the movie’s completed test audiences didn’t like the original film title Shoeless. So it was originally supposed to be titled Shoeless because he said it sounded like a movie about a bomber.
Todd: A hobo, universal called the director and screenwriter to tell him that Shoeless Joe didn’t work in the studio, changed the title of the film to Field of Dreams. When Robinson heard the news of the change, he called Kinsella, who’s the author of the book and told him the bad news, but apparently he didn’t care saying that Shoeless Joe was the title.
Todd: The publishing company gave the book, kins Sell’s original title was Dream Field. I can
Cathy: relate. Publishers give new book, new titles, so, I feel when you were like, if I had to come up with a title for that movie and I’m fine with Field of Dreams, I would’ve said like the baseball field. Or something very literal about
Cathy: or go the distance or if you build it.
Todd: I agree. You know, I agree. I agree. I don’t think Field of Dreams is the, I mean, it’s hard to argue with it because that’s what we know, but I agree. I think it could have been any of the things that you just said. During a lunch with the Iowa Chamber of Converse, the director broached his idea, the final scene in which headlights could be seen for miles along the horizon.
Todd: The chamber folks replied that it could be done, and the shooting of the final scene became a community event. The film crew was hidden on the farm to make sure the aerial shots did not reveal them. Dyersville was then blacked out, and local extras drove their vehicles to the field in order to give the illusion of movement, the drivers were instructed to continuously switch between their low and high beams.
Cathy: So basically what Todd’s saying, everybody, is that when that. Pull away shot at the end where they like pull back in the helicopter, those cars lined up are really cars. So like, we’re so used to c g I and things being created. Right. That they really did that. Right. And like you said, they only had a few opportunities to get that shot.
Cathy: And so it’s really amazing. And by the way, I mean, I’m just gonna throw this in here in case we don’t say it. We’ve been to Dyersville. Iowa, we crushed it. We crushed it. We played on the field. We took pictures of the girls in the corn and they were like, why are we doing this? And we’re like, someday you’ll understand.
Cathy: Or did we watch it first? I think we watched it the night before. I think we watched it the night before. You’re right. But the, you know, they were in the field. And then there’s a picture of us in your, in our bathroom at the field. It’s on your mirror. Oh really? We both, we brought our gloves.
Cathy: Oh remember? We played catch. And then now they have a baseball field there. Right. Todd?
Todd: They Sure do. And I’m gonna play a clip from what happened on that baseball field two years ago when we were watching this game. This was crazy. So the very first professional major league baseball game happened in the summer of nine, of 2021.
Todd: And my beloved Chicago White Sox were playing those nasty New York Yankees. Oh, they’re, and it was a good game. And we watched the entire thing. And it was, they had all this fanfare beforehand. Kevin Kosner was there, is like really sweet and wonderful. And so the one thing about baseball, like talk about a cool idea.
Todd: Like, I don’t know, there’s. Can you think of any other sport where they could do something this cool, like go in the middle of nowhere Iowa. And [01:06:40] host a major league baseball game in the middle of the corn. Like it doesn’t get much more mysterious
Cathy: nostalgic than that. I mean, again, it’s like Field of Dreams was about nostalgia.
Cathy: Now we have nostalgia about field of Dreams. Like it, it taps into something we all long for. True.
Todd: So the White Sox were winning and then the top of the ninth, the nasty New York Yankees took the lead off of our closer. I think Liam Hendrix was our closer at the time and I was really sad. And then with one out and the bottom of ninth with one man on this happened,
Todd: Anderson.
Todd: It might go crazy. It might go down as, and now I’m a Sox fan but I can’t skip over the Cubs game Seven and extra innings. That’s probably the best baseball game I’ve ever witnessed. I am a Cubs fan. I just don’t like them nearly as much as like the White Sox, but this game might be second.
Todd: And it was a meaning, not meaningless, but it wasn’t a playoff
Cathy: game. What do they call that? A game? A game where it does like All-Star Game. What kind of game do they call that?
Todd: I know the term you’re thinking of an exhibition game. Exhibition, this was not an exhibition though. This counted.
Todd: Oh, it didn’t, the standings. Okay. So an all-star game does not count in the standings, whereas this did. But it was just a magical night and the fact that Tim Timmy went deep was crazy.
Cathy: And what do we have to call the New York fans? Nasty. Is that necessary?
Todd: Everybody. I like New York, who’s not a Yankees fan will agree with
Cathy: me.
Cathy: I understand. Sweet. Because they’re always really good. Here’s, I like the City of New York, is what I’m saying. I just don’t wanna
Todd: pass away. Well, and I will say in the seventies and eighties, I really had a Patriot’s probably too strong word, an extreme dislike for the Yankees. The problem is in the nineties and the two thousands Jeter showed up.
Todd: He was such, and Joe Tori showed up. And Bernie Arod, no, Arod is very, he was very unlikable as a player. Ah. Bernie, God forgot Bernie’s last name. There was a lot of likable guys. And they were winning World Series. So there was just, and I did love Don Mattingly in the seventies and eighties.
Todd: A lot of people have no idea who I’m talking about. But anyways, can you take a guess on how many World Series titles that the White Sox have? Let’s start there. Take a guess. How many World Series the Chicago White Sox had? Three. I’m gonna. Double check my numbers. Series. Do the White Sox, I, how do you not know this off the top of your head?
Todd: Because they’ve been around 130 years, sweetie. Okay. Three times. Good job. Now we’re gonna ask the cubbies and take a guess on how many of the cubs have won two. Hold on, I gotta switch it. Sorry for the delay everybody, but I wasn’t ready for Todd’s Googling. Googling. I’m actually using chat. Oh, actually apologies for the air.
Todd: So the chat is saying it’s screwed up. It’s apologizing for its screw up. Oh, thank you. Chat. Where is the cubbies? So that was wrong about the White Sox. Actually no, it status, it stayed as three for the White Sox. And why is it apologized? Well, cubbies also won three times 1907. 1908 and 2016. Oh, so they won back to back.
Todd: And how many do you think the Yankees have? Oh, 12, 27. Oh my
Cathy: gosh. Really?
Todd: That’s why it’s easy to hate. Tim dislike them. And the team who has the second most World Series championships, can you take a guess?
Cathy: I, part of me wants say Boston, but that’s not right cuz they, no, they put them forever to get a championship.
Cathy: Don’t tell me. Let me guess. I’m gonna say, oh, I know
Todd: Braves. Good. Guess it’s the St. Louis Cardinals. Oh. They have won 11 times. And they’re
Cathy: like our nemesis when it comes to the cuts.
Cathy: They’re,
Todd: okay. Incorrectly cited as a goof. Is when one player turns around and jokingly mimics the witch of the Wizard of Oz by saying, I’m melting.
Todd: I’m
Cathy: melting. I don’t like
Todd: that. In the movie, the Chicago White Sox, players of the Black Sox scandal, repute wa were from 1919, right? While the movie didn’t premiere until 1939. However, the players remember their lives after baseball. Oh, since one remarks. He hadn’t had a cigarette for 18 years, so they all would have known about the film unless they died before 1939.
Todd: I
Cathy: love when he is like, he hasn’t had a cigarette. And then he is like, do you smoke? And I, and again, in that moment I’m thinking to myself, I would go get this dude a pack of cigarette, yet he’s already dead. So like, let’s let him enjoy. I don’t like that scene. And I feel I don’t really care.
Cathy: It doesn’t hurt the movie or anything, and it has nothing to do with my love of Wizard of Oz. It’s just, it doesn’t fit. Because I feel like they’re more accepting of the magic and the mystery in the corn and that they’re not making light of it. Right. So I don’t like that. I don’t know why they put that
Todd: in.
Todd: The director wanted very little said between Ray Kin sell’s character and his father’s ghost in the last scene he originally wrote and shot it to have Ray catch himself as he was about to introduce the ghost of his father to his wife. And he does preview audiences were either confused about who the character was or thought Ray was cruel for not acknowledging their relationship.
Todd: So then Robin, so the director added the line, Hey dad, you wanna have a catch? And it tested very well.
Cathy: So the, it’s the best scene. It’s the best line in the
Todd: movie. The original one did not say not the original, but the, their first cut. And then the test audience said, you gotta give us that line
Cathy: and be, and so before it just said, wanna have a catch?
Cathy: It didn’t say, Hey dad. Correct. And they left, you know, the scene is in there where he’s like, you know, this is Annie, this is my, you know, he’s, he about says dad catches himself and I get it, but there’s no reason, like the players are aware. Like, it’s not
Todd: like was he trying saying that is in the original, was he not sharing that be to protect his daughter because it made no sense.
Todd: I,
Cathy: the daughter’s been watching ghosts on the
Todd: field, like introduce, introduce daughter to his, to her grandfather. I
Cathy: think they are so uncomfortable with each other. That they had to, because it’s kind of lovely cuz when Annie and Karen go inside, the two of them walk together and they stare at each other the whole time.
Cathy: It was very sleepless in Seattle. You know when Dom Hanks and Meg Ryans stare at each other as they’re walking. And I. It wasn’t odd. That’s what you would do if you were like, I’ve seen somebody. And it’s this person I know, but they’re, you know, it’s them when they were young.
Cathy: Right. But I mean, I’m so grateful they did change that scene cuz that’s what makes
Todd: me cry. And then what’s the other, do you wanna say the other one that we talked about last night, the ending that they changed, not for this movie, but for a different movie, Shawshank. Oh. Oh do you want me to say it or do you know what?
Todd: No, go ahead. I know what it is, but you can say it. The original ending for Shawshank was supposed to be red on the bus, looking out at the, looking into the sun and just talking about a free man. Well, the hope and everything else. And they had to reshoot, they had to bring him back, Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman to shoot the one where he’s working on his boat, on the beach.
Todd: Because the audience was not satisfied with that. I am a hundred percent. Do you imagine that movie of, I think it would’ve been. Almost as good of a movie with red on the bus, but it’s just, it brought it all home.
Cathy: Well, I would’ve been like, is he gonna make it over the border? Because he actually says on the bus, I hope I make it over the border.
Cathy: I hope that, you know, I wanna shake my friend’s hand. Did I say that right? That I wanna shake my friend’s hand and we need to see that. We need to see that Andy’s okay. We need to see that Red makes it over the border. And the thing, that movie, you know, I, you and I did a pop culturing about it, so anybody who wants to listen to that’s in a previous, that’s a previous pop culturing episode, just scroll through our previous shows.
Cathy: But that scene is what makes Shawshank Sure. Like it’s amazing movie, but without that end. Same with Field of Dreams, like without those little
Todd: tweaks, that’s why you do test audiences. Ray Lata he’s now passed moment of Silence for Ray. He actually has never seen the completed movie.
Todd: I don’t think he’s seen any of his movies. No, that’s not true. Oh, it isn’t? Okay. At the time of the filming, his mother was in Ailing Health, which negatively affected his experience in making the film. His mother died about a year later while Iotta was filming Goodfellas. So he chose not to ever see the movie.
Cathy: We say his last name differently. Leotta. I say
Todd: Leotta. I think you’re right. Do you think, I think it’s Leotta. Ray Leotta. Okay. The movie line, if you build it, he will come, was voted 39th best movie quote in the American Film Institute out of a hundred.
Cathy: Oh. And I told you to write down, speaking of other movies, there is a moment when Annie brings up Citizen Kane.
Cathy: It’s just a really quick moment. Where she says something like, in this baseball she says something like, oh, and he had a, something a baseball bat named Rosebud or something. Cuz on a previous, no, I think it was on a Zen Parenting Radio podcast. We were talking about her the most overrated movie.
Cathy: And I said, Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane. But the understanding, like just that scene, if someone hasn’t seen it, you wouldn’t know what she was talking about. Sure. Unless you had read about it. I guess there’s ways, but so, so what’s the number one phrase? Is it rosebud? Well,
Todd: I’ll, I’m not gonna say all 38 that’s in front of ’em.
Todd: Just do number one. But I’ll just, the 38th one Okay. Is also a baseball movie today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth. 37th is, I’ll be back. Okay. And then 35th is, you’re gonna need a bigger boat, but we gotta know number one. You ready? Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. Oh yeah, Clark.
Todd: And then number two is, I’m gonna make him an offer he can fuse. Okay. Okay. So I think one or two more and then we’ll be done. Okay. We already talked about that one. And we already talked about that one, so we’re done with the trivia. Okay. See if there’s anything else I’ve missed.
Cathy: Oh, can I talk about a scene that I thought was touching Sure.
Cathy: That I wrote down that is really random? Sure. It is a scene when they are in Galena, but they’re really in the movie, they’re in Minnesota, but they they go to fine min, you know, Moonlight Graham, and they end up going to this place where this woman tells them that he has died.
Cathy: And so she reads the obituary to them, and it’s a beautiful obituary about what a lovely human he was. And Terrence Mann says to her, you’re a wonderful writer. And she says back, and so are you. Which it’s like a, he hasn’t really been writing. Do you know what I mean? And it’s a moment.
Cathy: And the thing that I read, her name was Anne Seymour, and the two of them were friends. Oh. The James Earl Jones.
Todd: Oh, that’s right. They were on Broadway
Cathy: Together. I read that and that was her last movie. She died. And then we also love the scene that we didn’t mention James Earl Jones goes to, or Terrence Mann goes to the bar and the man is telling him about how Dr.
Cathy: Graham got a blue hat for his wife. Every time he passed, like the stores would stock Blue hats cuz they knew he would buy ’em. And then when he died they went in his office and he had a whole closet full of blue hats he hadn’t given her. And it’s really touching that way. The actor does it. Cuz he’s like, I bet you didn’t know that, did you?
Cathy: That’s nice.
Todd: Okay, last but not least. Okay. 10. Great Father-son movies, field of Dreams ranks first. Do you have any guesses who might also be in the top 10?
Cathy: God. Okay. Not Godfather, maybe? Number nine. Okay. Oh, geez. Okay. Fathers, well, I would say Billy Elliot, but I don’t know if that’s on that list.
Cathy: Did not make it
Todd: even though it’s outstanding.
Cathy: Let’s see. Father, son. Oh. Not big. Not do. Gimme like one second to think. I’m not gonna look anything up. I just wanna like have an opportunity to talk about
Todd: Sweet. I’m gonna give you some dads, some theme music. Okay.
Cathy: Isn’t there a movie called Dad?
Todd: With Ted Danson? It’s good. Is that on that
Cathy: list? Oh geez. I feel under
Todd: the gun. You are under the guy.
Cathy: Okay. No, I don’t know. I don’t wanna
Todd: waste people’s time. Number two, I’ve never seen it. The Pursuit of Happiness with will Smith.
Cathy: Oh, will Smith and his son, his real son. Oh, really?
Todd: Jayden Smith’s number three. A movie called Big Fish. Never heard of that. Oh, he’s so
Cathy: good. Is it? That is our guy, you and McGregor. You and McGregor. It’s kind of a Oh, wow.
Todd: Actually, you and McGregor, what’s the movie that
Cathy: Shane, he’s in the other one with the dad. He is the beginning.
Cathy: Beginners? That was really good. That’s a good father
Todd: son movie too. A movie called The Road in 2009. Life is beautiful. 1997. Yeah, I haven’t seen [01:20:00] that one. It’s a Holocaust movie. The Lion King. Yeah, of course. Finding Nemo. Yep. Indiana Jones in the Last
Cathy: Crusade. Yeah, that’s Sean. What’s his name? James Bond. Connery. Connery. Thank you.
Todd: And then lastly, boyhood. Oh, duh. Good stuff. But that’s not necessarily father son. That’s boy family. Any closing thoughts?
Cathy: No, just that what I will, I mean, no big closing thoughts. What I will say to everybody though is this is a great family movie for sure.
Cathy: So if you’re Ugh, I don’t have a movie to show my kids, I think that, I don’t just think this movie holds up big time period and for the parts that it doesn’t hold up, you know, for our kids who point out everything about it that’s looks old. It’s a good conversation. Sure. It’s like interesting.
Cathy: I mean, it was right on the verge of going from eighties to nineties. You know, it, it leaves you feeling optimistic. Like Todd said, full of wonderful, of awe. Like our girl, two of our girls were kind of doing other things last night, but basically sat down and watched it with us. They were kind of pulled in again, and you know what we should have done last night, Todd was watched succession and then Field of Dreams because succession was the biggest buzzkill.
Cathy: In the world that should talk about not being optimistic. But but anyway, I would just say you know, put it on the top of your family list,
Todd: and I’m gonna say Happy Father’s Day to all the fellow dads out there. The way I choose to celebrate that is I want to be around my family, but I also want to watch the US Open.
Todd: Which is just a wonderful tradition for me. I’m a huge fan of the majors and I think US Open is my favorite even more so than the Masters, which I think a lot of people would say the masters. So that’s, you wanna
Cathy: just watch and like fall asleep if you want to. And then get food and not worry about being on.
Cathy: Right.
Todd: Or if we wanna play kickball or do something fun I’d like to do that too. Okay. So, all right. Here comes our outro music.
Todd: If you have any suggestions on other movies that you want us to cover, just shoot us an email. Todd is parenting radio com. Keep trucking everybody.
